Heroica: Glory Amongst The Stars RPG - Game Development

[Duvors]

9 hours ago, Endgame said:

Medicine: Used for healing the ailments of people or animals encountered, e.g. encountering a space-horse with a broken leg. I could also see it being used to attempt out of battle healing? But that seems borderline cheating.

I really don't like this. If you rule that this skill is only useful for healing NPCs then that creates narrative dissonance by creating a situation where NPCs clearly operate on different rules to the heroes. And if you additionally rule that this doesn't count towards healing Vitality and only towards plot-injuries then that means that the skill is completely useless unless the MM specifically sets up a situation where it can be used.

[joeshmoe554]

1 hour ago, Lord Duvors said:

I really don't like this. If you rule that this skill is only useful for healing NPCs then that creates narrative dissonance by creating a situation where NPCs clearly operate on different rules to the heroes. And if you additionally rule that this doesn't count towards healing Vitality and only towards plot-injuries then that means that the skill is completely useless unless the MM specifically sets up a situation where it can be used.

I think that proficiency could be used to try and heal people out of combat.  NPCs and players alike, after all you could always roll 0 successes and end up injuring your patient worse than they already were. 

A few battle questions. 

1. The battle order is currently split between Hero's and Adversaries.  Does this mean Hero's always act first, even if an enemy has a higher skill value?

2. Can more than one character occupy a cell on the battle grid?

3. What do the different colors on the battle grid represent?

[Duvors]

Since the topic has come up, how do Holo Scrolls work? Does the player only get one use of the spell when they use the scroll or do they get it for the entire quest?

[Endgame]

Updating from mobile, so I apologize for any formatting snafus or the like.

I actually tend to agree that my definition for the medicine proficiency is... pretty bad. So that needs to change. I am not huge on using it for resource free healing, because the whole point of having potions and limited spells is that healing is not an unlimited resource.

That being said, I like the idea of it potentially harming a party member if you botch the roll. The idea I came up with is that the Medicine proficiency boosts the effect of healing items. So, for example, right now a Plasma Potion restores between 1-6 health, decided via die roll. Someone with a proficiency of Medicine 3 would get the 1d6 + 3 health restored, which could be neat.

Also, yes, Performance could be used to make a spoony space bard flavored character.

To answer your battle questions, joeshmoe:

 

1. So, I actually ran this by WBD. The rules as is imply that the hero and enemy action orders should be meshed togrther, but that poses some problems. As the enemy party, I know all of the party actions, and it gives me an unfair edge where I can react to the agents, but they have no means of reacting to me. It results in agents targets moving out of range, stealing spaces, all sorts of weird stuff. So I split the orders to keep things fair.

2. Nope.

3. White is the only occupyable square... the others are just background, which I tiled for aesthetic.

 

[Yzalirk]

I like the idea of Medicine increasing the effect of Healing Items, maybe even Healing Spells too?  If someone invests points into becoming a healer it should reflect.  It would definitely help out late game as well since enemies will be a lot tougher by then.  Especially if there are plans to have Raids which I have loose ideas for.  As for outside combat use, maybe Medicine can be used for basic first aid on an NPC or diagnosing whatever ailment they have.

@Endgame, does Athletics increase your odds at dodging attacks?  If not, will that possibly change?

[joeshmoe554]

3 hours ago, Endgame said:

That being said, I like the idea of it potentially harming a party member if you botch the roll. The idea I came up with is that the Medicine proficiency boosts the effect of healing items. So, for example, right now a Plasma Potion restores between 1-6 health, decided via die roll. Someone with a proficiency of Medicine 3 would get the 1d6 + 3 health restored, which could be neat.

That sounds like a solid idea.  Either providing a flat boost to the result, or doing a Medicine check and boosting the result by the number of successes.

3 hours ago, Endgame said:

1. So, I actually ran this by WBD. The rules as is imply that the hero and enemy action orders should be meshed togrther, but that poses some problems. As the enemy party, I know all of the party actions, and it gives me an unfair edge where I can react to the agents, but they have no means of reacting to me. It results in agents targets moving out of range, stealing spaces, all sorts of weird stuff. So I split the orders to keep things fair.

One means of meshing the actions together would be to make a note somewhere off-site of the enemies actions for the round before requesting actions from the Heroes.  Then when determining the results of a round, you would reference those actions for the enemies.  This wouldn't quite work for round 1 since you should know the heroes positions before choosing actions, but you could place the heroes and then try to determine the enemies actions based on their positions, without character knowledge of those heroes' actions.

[Endgame]

3 hours ago, Goliath said:

I like the idea of Medicine increasing the effect of Healing Items, maybe even Healing Spells too?  If someone invests points into becoming a healer it should reflect.  It would definitely help out late game as well since enemies will be a lot tougher by then.  Especially if there are plans to have Raids which I have loose ideas for.  As for outside combat use, maybe Medicine can be used for basic first aid on an NPC or diagnosing whatever ailment they have.

@Endgame, does Athletics increase your odds at dodging attacks?  If not, will that possibly change?

Athletics currently has no bearing on dodging attacks, and right now there is no plans to change it; if you want to dodge or resist attacks, put points in Skill.

1 hour ago, joeshmoe554 said:

That sounds like a solid idea.  Either providing a flat boost to the result, or doing a Medicine check and boosting the result by the number of successes.

One means of meshing the actions together would be to make a note somewhere off-site of the enemies actions for the round before requesting actions from the Heroes.  Then when determining the results of a round, you would reference those actions for the enemies.  This wouldn't quite work for round 1 since you should know the heroes positions before choosing actions, but you could place the heroes and then try to determine the enemies actions based on their positions, without character knowledge of those heroes' actions.

I think that would work in simpler battles, but when things get more complicated and agents are taking multiple turns and teleporting around the map with Spells, eventually they will need to be able to react. Otherwise they would be swinging at air all day.

I love the idea of enemy AI, because it allows some interesting RP scenes... if a villain and an agent build a rivlary, having that villain forego logical moves to lash out at the object of their hatred could be fun, for example.

[Yzalirk]

2 hours ago, Endgame said:

Athletics currently has no bearing on dodging attacks, and right now there is no plans to change it; if you want to dodge or resist attacks, put points in Skill.

Okay, thanks for the tip! 

I also must say that the new combat grid system is amazing.  I really enjoy it so far and having to strategize makes combat feel alive.  It definitely adds more interaction and being able to visualize what is going on really helps.

I hope that when Heroica 2.0 launches officially, there will be a section with all information available that has been mentioned here.  Even a guide for being a QM.  I might give it a try some time, though I am not a very good builder haha, but I have no idea how to do all the "behind the scenes" stuff. 

[Endgame]

Just now, Goliath said:

Okay, thanks for the tip! 

I also must say that the new combat grid system is amazing.  I really enjoy it so far and having to strategize makes combat feel alive.  It definitely adds more interaction and being able to visualize what is going on really helps.

I hope that when Heroica 2.0 launches officially, there will be a section with all information available that has been mentioned here.  Even a guide for being a QM.  I might give it a try some time, though I am not a very good builder haha, but I have no idea how to do all the "behind the scenes" stuff. 

I'm managing a few documents behind the scenes to post upon Mission Zero's completion... a FAQ, a list of Possible Rule Revisions, and I suppose I could write a little about good MMing. That being said, only read and heed that last one if you think this Mission is good.

[KotZ]

20 hours ago, Goliath said:

I also must say that the new combat grid system is amazing.  I really enjoy it so far and having to strategize makes combat feel alive.  It definitely adds more interaction and being able to visualize what is going on really helps.

I agree, it's making the system feel much more interactive and challenging while still being easy to work with. There's more coordination now, and I can see the grid working with line of sight mechanics.

[Endgame]

23 minutes ago, KotZ said:

I agree, it's making the system feel much more interactive and challenging while still being easy to work with. There's more coordination now, and I can see the grid working with line of sight mechanics.

It's a little bit more work to manage on the MM side, but that being said, I'm pretty close to finishing my program to calculate damage automatically, so I guess it makes up for it on that end.

That being said, I apologize for not explaining the spell system well enough, KotZ, seeing as your spell currently can't do much of anything until you get some points in Nature/Occult. I should've explained the system better.

[Duvors]

1 hour ago, Endgame said:

That being said, I apologize for not explaining the spell system well enough, KotZ, seeing as your spell currently can't do much of anything until you get some points in Nature/Occult. I should've explained the system better.

On that note I feel I should warn you I have a rant about how badly designed I think the spell system is in the works. I just don't feel like diving into it right now.

[Endgame]

7 minutes ago, Lord Duvors said:

On that note I feel I should warn you I have a rant about how badly designed I think the spell system is in the works. I just don't feel like diving into it right now.

This is why we test, after all - any feedback is great.   Heroica's rules have always been very fluid, so we can patch as needed.

[samurai-turtle]

On 1/19/2020 at 7:24 PM, Endgame said:

 

• Armor Mod: Not unlike Weapon Mod, if the Armor you're wearing matches the type of damage the enemy is dealing, you get to add an Armor Mod to the calculation, thereby decreasing the attack's damage equal to the Armor's, well, Armor Mod.

But, from now on, if it is helpful, I will list battle calculations as, for example:

(2 out of 3 Proficiency successes + 1 Weapon Mod) - (1 out of 2 Skill successes + 1 Armor Mod) = (2+1)-(1+1) = 1

For some reason the Armor Mod still confusing me (for some reason). Why if I have a +1 Kinetic Armor and the enemy has a +1 Kinetic Weapon, why would my attack go down? I would think if the enemy attack would go down if it was attacking me. 

And I am going to ask this for the third time  Can we movie and Target an enemy in a diagonal direction on the battlefield. 

[samurai-turtle]

On 1/17/2020 at 11:59 PM, Endgame said:

Occult: Used in spells. Could also see it come in handy with dealing with anything supernatural.
Religion: Used in spells. Would also have some out of combat uses, as a way of learning about or potentially using religion as a persuasion tool. 

Maybe this is just my personal opinion, should not these two things be one. Because all "Religion" is an "Occult". The only real difference is just acceptance. 

[Endgame]

32 minutes ago, samurai-turtle said:

For some reason the Armor Mod still confusing me (for some reason). Why if I have a +1 Kinetic Armor and the enemy has a +1 Kinetic Weapon, why would my attack go down? I would think if the enemy attack would go down if it was attacking me. 

And I am going to ask this for the third time  Can we movie and Target an enemy in a diagonal direction on the battlefield. 

I apologize if I missed a question... yes, diagonals are allowed. I believe Oozeling B moved diagonally round one?

The Armor Mod is from the enemy's perspective. If you attack an enemy with +1 Kinetic Armor with a Kinetic Weapon, the damage your attack does decreases by one, because the type of your weapon matched their armor.

A general way to state it without using pronouns or words like "player" and "enemy" is "if an assailant strikes a target who is wearing armor with the same type as the assailant's weapon, the target may apply their armor mod to reduce the strength of the hit."

Hope that clears things up.

9 minutes ago, samurai-turtle said:

Maybe this is just my personal opinion, should not these two things be one. Because all "Religion" is an "Occult". The only real difference is just acceptance. 

From a definition standpoint, perhaps, but I think that the connotations and application in the game world make them different enough to be worth separating. Plus, Occult could cover legends in the same vein as Big Foot or other mystic, but decidedly non-religious, entities/phenomena.

Edited January 21, 2020 by Endgame

[samurai-turtle]

9 minutes ago, Endgame said:

The Armor Mod is from the enemy's perspective. If you attack an enemy with +1 Kinetic Armor with a Kinetic Weapon, the damage your attack does decreases by one, because the type of your weapon matched their armor.

Well that seems slightly odd. What if the weapon was energy or elemental based. 

And while I am thinking about it is their going to be different element(s) like earth, wind, fire and water? Or is it just going to be elemental. 

I might be missing something with the armor mod. 

Edited January 21, 2020 by samurai-turtle
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[Endgame]

Just now, samurai-turtle said:

Well that seems slightly odd. What if the weapon was energy or elemental based. 

And while I am thinking about it is their going to be different element(s) like earth, wind, fire and water? Or is it just going to be elemental. 

What's odd about it? Energy armor only defends against attacks from Energy Weapons, and Elemental armor only defends against attacks from Elemental weapons.

As of now, no, there are no different elements. All Elemental damage is simply Elemental.

[samurai-turtle]

Just now, Endgame said:

What's odd about it? Energy armor only defends against attacks from Energy Weapons, and Elemental armor only defends against attacks from Elemental weapons. 

Right now to me it sounds like if I am wearing a Kinetic armor and using a Kinetic weapon my over all attack will go down. And that doesn't make sense to me. 

I think some wires are getting cross to me right now. 

[Endgame]

3 minutes ago, samurai-turtle said:

Right now to me it sounds like if I am wearing a Kinetic armor and using a Kinetic weapon my over all attack will go down. And that doesn't make sense to me. 

I think some wires are getting cross to me right now. 

If your target is wearing kinetic armor and you are using a kinetic weapon, the target will take less damage, because they are wearing armor that is resistant to the weapon that is being used against them.

Enemies in this game are built, and function identically to, player characters - they can equip armor as well. The Oozelings didn't demonstrate even a tenth of what is possible to do with the enemy parties in this new system.

Edited January 21, 2020 by Endgame

[Classic_Spaceman]

1 hour ago, samurai-turtle said:

Maybe this is just my personal opinion, should not these two things be one. Because all "Religion" is an "Occult". The only real difference is just acceptance. 

Personally, I think that “Occult” should be combined with “Arcana”, and “Religion” with “Culture” - “Occult/Arcana” would be used for spells and anything directly to do with the supernatural, while “Religion/Culture” would deal with gathering information about planets’ traditions, beliefs, practices, etc. 
Essentially, “Occult” is supernatural, while “Religion” would be beliefs about the supernatural. 
 

[samurai-turtle]

10 hours ago, Classic_Spaceman said:

Personally, I think that “Occult” should be combined with “Arcana”, and “Religion” with “Culture” - “Occult/Arcana” would be used for spells and anything directly to do with the supernatural, while “Religion/Culture” would deal with gathering information about planets’ traditions, beliefs, practices, etc. 
Essentially, “Occult” is supernatural, while “Religion” would be beliefs about the supernatural. 

 

12 hours ago, Endgame said:

From a definition standpoint, perhaps, but I think that the connotations and application in the game world make them different enough to be worth separating. Plus, Occult could cover legends in the same vein as Big Foot or other mystic, but decidedly non-religious, entities/phenomena.

I was thinking just call it "supernatural" then. Besides Big Foot probably is more of crypto zoology. And that might be in a different category. Maybe the categories should be "Legends" and "Supernatural". 

11 hours ago, Classic_Spaceman said:

Are we actually calling these “Philters”, or is this just a typo? Since a ‘philter’ is a love-potion, ‘filter’ (something that purifies) makes more sense contextually. 

Well little robots are getting rid of status anomalies. Or someone is trying to get clever with spelling. 

[Endgame]

I agree that it is worth taking a look at the proficiencies and the spell system to refine them; to be truthful, although the occult played a major role in Heroica 1.0, what with demons and ghosts and such, I do not know how much of that people would like in 2.0. Consider it added to my List Of Things To Revisit. That being said, cryptozoology sounds like a very fun proficiency, but part of me is afraid that it is too close to Nature.

And you learn something new every day, because I had no idea that "philter" meant that. I was just going by the spelling on the Common Items sheet, which you can find on Page 12 of this topic. Might be worth renaming that to "filter."

 

[Duvors]

15 hours ago, Classic_Spaceman said:

Personally, I think that “Occult” should be combined with “Arcana”, and “Religion” with “Culture” - “Occult/Arcana” would be used for spells and anything directly to do with the supernatural, while “Religion/Culture” would deal with gathering information about planets’ traditions, beliefs, practices, etc. 
Essentially, “Occult” is supernatural, while “Religion” would be beliefs about the supernatural. 
 

I really don't like that idea,. Part of it has to do with the fact that the resulting skills would be overly generic (which is something that already annoys me about the existing Engineering skill), and the rest of it has to do with one of my issues with the existing magic system. Namely the fact that, as it stands, every character is either forced to spend at least three skill points on one of the 'magic' proficiencies or else have an entire section of their character sheet that they can't use or interact with in any way. A problem I feel would only be exacerbated if we just collapsed all supernatural skills into one.

[Endgame]

1 hour ago, Lord Duvors said:

I really don't like that idea,. Part of it has to do with the fact that the resulting skills would be overly generic (which is something that already annoys me about the existing Engineering skill), and the rest of it has to do with one of my issues with the existing magic system. Namely the fact that, as it stands, every character is either forced to spend at least three skill points on one of the 'magic' proficiencies or else have an entire section of their character sheet that they can't use or interact with in any way. A problem I feel would only be exacerbated if we just collapsed all supernatural skills into one.

While I agree that the spell system might need a second look at, I don't think requiring investment into a certain skill to cast spells is necessarily a bad thing. Keep in mind on character creation, you only need to spend 2 of your creation points/EXP to get a magic based proficiency up to 2, which is the minimum needed to start slinging spells. Remember, builds require and investment; and because we currently don't have a class system, you'll never find yourself in a situation like in Heroica 1.0, where certain classes would be forever locked off to you depending on your very first choice. All builds are possible at any time, given the time investment, which I think is a nice feature of the system.