Lord of the Rings Ongoing Discussion

[THELEGOBATMAN]

Remember that (at least for now) the actual theme has not returned.

We're getting a few new sets, sure, but they are under BrickHeadz and Icons lines. It's not a separate theme, it's a part of something else.

[BrickBob Studpants]

21 minutes ago, THELEGOBATMAN said:

Remember that (at least for now) the actual theme has not returned.

We're getting a few new sets, sure, but they are under BrickHeadz and Icons lines. It's not a separate theme, it's a part of something else.

Exactly! However, I’m just glad we’re getting more LotR stuff, even if there aren’t any playsets

[THELEGOBATMAN]

3 hours ago, BrickBob Studpants said:

Exactly! However, I’m just glad we’re getting more LotR stuff, even if there aren’t any playsets

I do hope we get regular sets down the line. A huge D2C isn't something I'm interested in, neither are BrickHeadz.

[BitByBrick]

How certain are we that it is Rivendell? No matter what the setting, the price point is going to be too steep for me. I may have to just pick up the figures on the secondary market or skip it all together. I want to support this awesome theme, but too many expensive sets are out there already. Wishing I would have picked up more of the original LOTR sets before they became impossibly expensive. Glad I kept Helm’s Deep with its add-on expansion set. Still looks great on display! Would favor smaller play sets at some future date. Not all fans can afford these behemoth sets, please pass this along to anyone at the LEGO group. Thanks! 

[mtrsteve]

16 hours ago, THELEGOBATMAN said:

Remember that (at least for now) the actual theme has not returned.

We're getting a few new sets, sure, but they are under BrickHeadz and Icons lines. It's not a separate theme, it's a part of something else.

Incorrect! The brickheadz appear on the Lego website under the lord of the rings theme:

https://www.lego.com/en-ca/themes/lord-of-the-rings

So the *theme* has factually returned! Whether we get any more than this one release is still a valid question.

[MAB]

55 minutes ago, mtrsteve said:

Incorrect! The brickheadz appear on the Lego website under the lord of the rings theme:

https://www.lego.com/en-ca/themes/lord-of-the-rings

So the *theme* has factually returned! Whether we get any more than this one release is still a valid question.

On the website that is a way of helping buyers find products from a specific license.

Frozen also has its own entry in the shopping menu, under which there are Minidoll based sets, Duplo sets, keychains. Same with Mickey Mouse.

Are these LOTR sets that happen to be brickheadz, or brickheadz sets that happen to be LOTR? The commercial website can list them as both. But I think most major websites list them as Brickheadz first and LOTR as a sub-theme. They are also numbered as part of the Brickheadz theme.

[mtrsteve]

1 hour ago, Atrius Kain said:

Didn't they do this to Stranger Things too? The biggest thing is the mention of Rings of Power and possible multiple sets. What are the chances not all set lists leaked yet?

Yeah, it's quite possible this is or isn't evidence of more sets to come

But it does mean that according to Lego, officially, there is currently a LotR theme, at least in a technical sense.

 

[THELEGOBATMAN]

Not how it works.

For example, Super Heroes is a single theme. That's the information retailers receive in codenames.

Yet on Shop@Home, it appears in various forms – Marvel, DC, Spider-Man, Batman etc.

BrickHeadz is a theme. The Lord of the Rings is a category which makes buying those sets more intuitive on the website.

[Altair1]

23 hours ago, Atrius Kain said:

I am surprised by how little Rings of Power mocs exist...

This does not surprise me given how disappointing RoP season 1 was... One needs to be inspired to make mocs. They'd better step up their game for season 2 - but given that they will keep the same lead actors and that most of them lack both charisma and empathy, I am not very optimistic...

[mtrsteve]

2 hours ago, THELEGOBATMAN said:

Not how it works.

For example, Super Heroes is a single theme. That's the information retailers receive in codenames.

Yet on Shop@Home, it appears in various forms – Marvel, DC, Spider-Man, Batman etc.

BrickHeadz is a theme. The Lord of the Rings is a category which makes buying those sets more intuitive on the website.

When I go to shop at home, I select browse by theme and then select the LotR theme. That is officially straight from Lego themselves categorized as a theme. Is there somewhere else I should look for an up to date official list of themes?

You dont even have to click on the link I posted, just read the url:

https://www.lego.com/en-ca/themes/lord-of-the-rings

Lego -> themes -> LotR

It exists. Any counter argument is obtuse.

Edited January 17, 2023 by mtrsteve

[THELEGOBATMAN]

*sigh*

It's not an official theme. Shop@Home uses themes as categories, adding various ones that don't officially exist as themes – only as subcategories which help improve the shopping experience.

Marvel, DC, Spider-Man, and Batman are four categories on Shop@Home, even tho all of them are part of the same theme – Super Heroes.

The same goes for Disney, Disney Mickey and Friends, Frozen, and Disney and Pixar's Lightyear on Shop@Home. Four categories, single theme – Disney.

There are also multiple instances when a single set appears in multiple "themes" on Shop@Home – but we can agree that a single set can't belong to more than a single theme, right?

Technic Batman sets, licensed CMF series, licensed Duplo sets – and yes, licensed Brickheadz, like The Lord of the Ring ones.

So no, The Lord of the Rings isn't back as a theme. The license is back, and they made sets based on it, but the theme itself is not (but let's hope that changes).

[mtrsteve]

3 minutes ago, THELEGOBATMAN said:

*sigh*

It's not an official theme. Shop@Home uses themes as categories, adding various ones that don't officially exist as themes – only as subcategories which help improve the shopping experience.

Marvel, DC, Spider-Man, and Batman are four categories on Shop@Home, even tho all of them are part of the same theme – Super Heroes.

The same goes for Disney, Disney Mickey and Friends, Frozen, and Disney and Pixar's Lightyear on Shop@Home. Four categories, single theme – Disney.

There are also multiple instances when a single set appears in multiple "themes" on Shop@Home – but we can agree that a single set can't belong to more than a single theme, right?

Technic Batman sets, licensed CMF series, licensed Duplo sets – and yes, licensed Brickheadz, like The Lord of the Ring ones.

So no, The Lord of the Rings isn't back as a theme. The license is back, and they made sets based on it, but the theme itself is not (but let's hope that changes).

Actually I don't agree that a single set can't belong to more than one theme. Is a Batman brickhead a brickheadz theme or superheroes theme (or DC theme!)?

To me it can absolutely be more than one thing, because themes are just categorizations and as such must be flexible to reflect reality. 

I maintain that Lego's *publically facing* website is explicit that LotR is a theme. 

I will stand corrected if you can point to a public 'official' list of themes that should override shop@home's categories.

[NoOneOfImportance]

From the LEGO LOTR page:

"Build and recreate iconic moments from Middle-earth with LEGO® Lord of the Rings™ sets. Whether you’re a new fan, a super-fan, or somewhere in between, join the epic battle of good vs. evil. The fantasy world of Lord of the Rings™ is filled with legendary books, movies and the new The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power TV show. These Lord of the Rings gifts and toys, for kids aged 10+ and adults, are inspired by the mythical locations and iconic characters of Frodo™, Gandalf the Grey™ and Aragon™. Discover your next precious LEGO® BrickHeadz™ Lord of the Rings™ character figures, Arkenstone-level of awesome gifts and more."

 

Depending how you read that bolded line there, it could simply be saying that the sets they are making are inspired by the main LOTR series, even though the world of LOTR is filled with a variety of books, movies, and RoP. Technically the "variety of books" could also include the Simarillion, Children of Hurin, etc., but I don't think we should expect any sets from those. TL;DR: The line above is vague enough that I don't think we can assume anything beyond the main LOTR movie/book-based set/BH we know about. 

 

Also, a theme page on LEGO can mean a variety of things. Ghostbusters had their own page, and they only had the BH pack, Ecto, Ecto 2016, GBHQ, and now the Icons Ecto (which actually doesn't exist on a separate page from Icons now). Meanwhile, Stranger Things had a page with only the Upside Down, BH, and keychain. A theme page on LEGO only means that LEGO is making something from that license (or, "theme") - it doesn't mean how much/how little. So while the pages are technically showing "themes" on LEGO.com, like @mtrsteve said, that doesn't mean a lot. The pages can be used as simply ways to narrow down by license, like @THELEGOBATMAN said, and it doesn't imply anything beyond that. 

Given that we haven't don't have any more unknown themes for the summer from all of the retail lists, it can be assumed that LOTR will at least not be continuing this summer. Also of note is that Rivendell is within the Icons range of numbers, not its own. 

[MAB]

35 minutes ago, mtrsteve said:

Actually I don't agree that a single set can't belong to more than one theme. Is a Batman brickhead a brickheadz theme or superheroes theme (or DC theme!)?

Brickheadz. The numbering of them (both collector numbers and set numbers) indicate they are part of brickheadz.

According to the themes in their web shop, they also still continue to have a theme called Creator Expert, despite a press release from three years ago saying they were to stop using that branding.

LEGO® Creator Expert Toys
These LEGO® sets are designed for true adult building masters. From stylish home décor sets like LEGO® flowers and plants to massive, instantly recognisable world landmarks from all over the globe, there's something for every builder and collector to enjoy. There's even a range of classic vehicles that pack in realistic designs and make for great display pieces for fans of any age, or great toys to play with. If you're looking for a challenging – and rewarding – build then the LEGO® Creator Expert range is sure to offer something unique that'll put your creative skills to the test.

Why? Because for people that are used to searching for Creator Expert, it is easier to find them using that menu entry. Even though that theme officially ended some time ago.

Things can appear under different menu items but look what happens when you blick on the Gandalf and Balrog brickheadz aftrr eentering hrough the LOTR tab. What theme do you see then?

Home > BrickHeadz > Gandalf the Grey™ & Balrog™

[Legoman123]

I don't imagine it'll be long before we here new info on Rivendell, maybe not photos but news at least if the rumoured March release date is true.

That description also gives me hope of more sets coming that aren't just the brickheadz and D2C as it clear says 'locations'.

[Alegrispa]

On 1/16/2023 at 4:58 PM, Atrius Kain said:

2024 1HY is War of Rohirrim and Jackson trilogy with 2 RoP sets- 6 swts in total

2024 2HY is Rings of Power season 2  and Jackson trilogy sets.- 4 sets in total

All wishful thinking.

Lol, c'mon dude. You're just setting yourself up for disappointment.

[Triceron]

Really surprised they mentioned Rings of Power by name, but I can see the Amazon series literally being the reason they're revisiting the LOTR franchise at all.  It's all piggybanking on a new series, much like how they ushered in the original LOTR sets around the time of the Hobbit Movies.

Still, I think Lego name dropping RoP is an odd reference.  Unlike the movies, I don't think the series has much young audience appeal at all.

[JimBaggins]

33 minutes ago, Triceron said:

Still, I think Lego name dropping RoP is an odd reference.  Unlike the movies, I don't think the series has much young audience appeal at all.

Or anyone appeal, based on reviews 😅

[Alegrispa]

4 hours ago, Atrius Kain said:

if Lego went full into a lotr revival? I would have to give up on all the other themes I collect.

I get ya.

2 hours ago, Triceron said:

Really surprised they mentioned Rings of Power by name, but I can see the Amazon series literally being the reason they're revisiting the LOTR franchise at all.  It's all piggybanking on a new series, much like how they ushered in the original LOTR sets around the time of the Hobbit Movies.

Still, I think Lego name dropping RoP is an odd reference.  Unlike the movies, I don't think the series has much young audience appeal at all.

It's called "brand recognition". It'd be silly not to include it.

[MAB]

2 hours ago, Triceron said:

Really surprised they mentioned Rings of Power by name, but I can see the Amazon series literally being the reason they're revisiting the LOTR franchise at all.  It's all piggybanking on a new series, much like how they ushered in the original LOTR sets around the time of the Hobbit Movies.

Still, I think Lego name dropping RoP is an odd reference.  Unlike the movies, I don't think the series has much young audience appeal at all.

Apparently 71% of the audience is over 35. So yeah, if LEGO do anything for RoP presumably they will aim at adults. But I think they knew that from the original sets.

1 hour ago, JimBaggins said:

Or anyone appeal, based on reviews 😅

Currently, 46% of reviews on amazon are 5 star. That is a lot of people that enjoyed it.

Of course there is also 44% that are 1 and 2 star reviews, often with complaints that they deviated from the source material. 

It is a very bimodal distribution but not surprising since some people want to be entertained whereas others want them to stick to Tolkien's writing. 

[THELEGOBATMAN]

18 hours ago, mtrsteve said:

Actually I don't agree that a single set can't belong to more than one theme. Is a Batman brickhead a brickheadz theme or superheroes theme (or DC theme!)?

To me it can absolutely be more than one thing, because themes are just categorizations and as such must be flexible to reflect reality. 

I maintain that Lego's *publically facing* website is explicit that LotR is a theme. 

I will stand corrected if you can point to a public 'official' list of themes that should override shop@home's categories.

It literally can't 

Theme is a concept which LEGO uses to sort sets by numbers, and give that information to retailers.

BrickHeadz is a completely separate theme. Some of them are licensed, but they are still a part of that broader theme. 

Themes are sorted by set numbers. For example, as of now, Super Heroes sets use 762––, and follow up on those numbers consecutively. Star Wars uses 753––, Disney 432––, Harry Potter 764––, Jurassic World 769––, Ninjago 717––, and so on.

We even know about Indiana Jones and Sonic the Hedgehog, which ARE new themes coming later this year (7701– and 7699–, respectively).

BrickHeadz uses 406–– now, and so are the LotR ones. Icons uses 103––, and guess what set number Rivendell has? 10316. 

So, themes are actually sorted by set numbers. A single set CANNOT belong to multiple themes, because it has a certain set number assigned to it. 

If The Lord of the Rings returned as a theme, it would have had its own set numbers. It doesn't tho. This year's LotR sets are a part of different themes, which use various licenses — BrickHeadz and Icons.

[mtrsteve]

57 minutes ago, THELEGOBATMAN said:

It literally can't 

Theme is a concept which LEGO uses to sort sets by numbers, and give that information to retailers.

BrickHeadz is a completely separate theme. Some of them are licensed, but they are still a part of that broader theme. 

Themes are sorted by set numbers. For example, as of now, Super Heroes sets use 762––, and follow up on those numbers consecutively. Star Wars uses 753––, Disney 432––, Harry Potter 764––, Jurassic World 769––, Ninjago 717––, and so on.

We even know about Indiana Jones and Sonic the Hedgehog, which ARE new themes coming later this year (7701– and 7699–, respectively).

BrickHeadz uses 406–– now, and so are the LotR ones. Icons uses 103––, and guess what set number Rivendell has? 10316. 

So, themes are actually sorted by set numbers. A single set CANNOT belong to multiple themes, because it has a certain set number assigned to it. 

If The Lord of the Rings returned as a theme, it would have had its own set numbers. It doesn't tho. This year's LotR sets are a part of different themes, which use various licenses — BrickHeadz and Icons.

Still not convinced. 4064- includes a botanicals and Chinese new year sets. 4065- includes a hodgepodge of sets. So a 406-- number doesn't mean anything re: theme. The set # groupings are fluid and meet the needs of the day as far as I can tell.

The box art has both BrickHeadz and LotR logos, it has both a set # and brickheadz #s, and it shows up under both themes on the official website. I conclude that it belongs to both themes. Lego literally had to have a web dev reinsert LotR theme on their website to have it show up there, so they have intentionally signalled that the LotR theme has returned, whether or not that means more to come (and if there is nothing more to come, then maybe that's enough reason to group the set #s with the recent releases for evergreen themes of icons etc)

My last point on this topic is that the official Lego page listing active themes has LotR on it with this blurb:

"Lord of the Rings™ New

One build to rule them all! Recreate favorite moments from Middle-earth with LEGO® Lord of the Rings™ sets. Join Frodo™, Gandalf the Grey™, Aragon™ and more in the epic battle of good vs. evil from the beloved film series with highly detailed sets and fun character display models."

So we will have to just agree to disagree on this one I think. 

However as a positive I wouldn't have found the above blurb without this debate, and I notice it explicitly says 'highly detailed sets and fun character display models'. This seems like the closest to acknowledging that a D2C is coming as I have seen yet?

[MAB]

This is what I see when I enter lego.com, and then select Shop > Themes, then Lord of the Rings and the click on the Gandalf and Balrog brickheadz.

It doesn't say Home > Lord of the Rings > Gandalf the Grey and Balrog.

Repeat that with any other Brickheadz set, no matter what license (or not) it is from.

To me that suggests that LEGO stores all the Brickheadz sets under the Brickheadz theme, no matter what other logos are on the box. The LOTR menu item is there to help people find what they want, and is just links to products within other theme(s) that fit the license.

It is similar but even more apparent with Disney (or Star Wars). There is actually a current Disney theme with sets in it. But click on a Disney Brickheadz set and you get taken to a product stored under Brickheadz, not under Disney. That (along with the numbering) is a clear indication that Brickheadz are Brickheadz first, and any license second.

[Legoman123]

Surely there will be a specific theme page for LOTR when the D2C arrives though?  

[mtrsteve]

43 minutes ago, Legoman123 said:

Surely there will be a specific theme page for LOTR when the D2C arrives though?  

Again, there IS a specific theme page for LotR now. Whether you want to think of it as a secondary theme for the BrickHeadz or deny it's existence means anything is up to you.

See here:

https://www.lego.com/en-us/themes/lord-of-the-rings

And here:

https://www.lego.com/en-us/themes