The Second Crash - Day 2

[MagPiesRUs]

Hopefully the rest of the 'town' has more sophisticated plans. Anyway, claiming town goes without saying, but there was no reason to tell me your 'role' and it makes you look suss. Not a slam dunk lynch, but it puts you above Ewan in my lynch line up. If you end up being town, you brought it on yourself. Nobody in all my years of playing has ever started a PM to me on day one with " I'm a Vanilla Townie" (but vanilla townie is in green, which I can't write on my phone)

Was this before or after Mike advised us to be cautious about claiming to Molly?

[mediumsnowman]

Well, now that you've ruined the secrecy, it might be good for everyone to see the PM in question:

Hi def, I'm getting a good town-read on you. I'm just a vanilla townie but I'd like to get some people on board to lynch TPRU tomorrow. He said a couple things that seemed really odd:

I'm still ok with my vote on Perce. Since we've left this to the last minute, it helps that he has pretty much already roleclaimed, so we know we won't be losing anyone important if he is a townie. Personally, I wouldn't mind a no-lynch today, but if others feel strongly about it I wouldn't be opposed to voting for Delwyn or Mike, who are the other two scummiest players to me. I'm leaning towards a town-read on Molly, myself.

Here was my response to this:

This doesn't sit well with me. Leaving your vote on a player unlikely to be lynched when your vote is needed to actually have a lynch? You say you wouldn't mind a no-lynch, but the only people a no-lynch benefits is the scum. Less information for the town.

You also made a good point:

Now I'm suss on Pies for a soft defense of her before she claimed! Scum are the only ones who know who's town.

What do you think?

Is that not that job of a vanilla townie? Contribute to the lynching discussion and try to distract the scum from the town PR's. If you're lucky you can get investigated and act as a mouthpiece for the town block proper.

[CMP]

Why couldn't you just bring it up in public during the day? You know, where your suspect can actually see your argument in respond in kind?

It doesn't sit right, trying to garner support for a lynch in private.

[mediumsnowman]

Why couldn't you just bring it up in public during the day? You know, where your suspect can actually see your argument in respond in kind?

It doesn't sit right, trying to garner support for a lynch in private.

I did bring it up at the start of today. In fact it was almost a carbon copy of my PM minus the claim, which Elijah has thoughtfully provided. I didn't want to go into the day unprepared, and see if I could get some people to back me who might share my suspicions. Elijah seems to be the only one who reacted negatively.

[Lady K]

Ok, I just need four more people to claim and then I can ask for counterclaims. I am getting conflicting information and I would really like to clear it all up so we can make the best use of this day as compared to day 1.

[MagPiesRUs]

I did bring it up at the start of today. In fact it was almost a carbon copy of my PM minus the claim, which Elijah has thoughtfully provided. I didn't want to go into the day unprepared, and see if I could get some people to back me who might share my suspicions. Elijah seems to be the only one who reacted negatively.

Wait, how many other people did you send that message to? Did you tell them all that you're a vanilla townie? Why did you seem so apprehensive about claiming to Molly when you had already claimed to people you have far less of a reason to trust?

[CMP]

Wait, how many other people did you send that message to? Did you tell them all that you're a vanilla townie? Why did you seem so apprehensive about claiming to Molly when you had already claimed to people you have far less of a reason to trust?

That's a really good point.

[jluck]

Ok, I just need four more people to claim and then I can ask for counterclaims. I am getting conflicting information and I would really like to clear it all up so we can make the best use of this day as compared to day 1.

I expect this will dictate the course of the vote, so hopefully everyone claims in time for us to have a discussion and utilize the information.

[def]

He claimed to Molly to, before he told people to be cautious about claiming to her.

If he really was trying to stump the scum and take one for the team, blindly claiming in PM is the absolute wrong way to do it. I was just in a game as scum where I won, so likely my 'town' game is similar to my town game. Mike thinks a cleared vanilla townie can unite the town, but of course they can't because the godfather exists.

The only way to 100% clear a vanilla is to have them lead lynches on the scum, and even then there will be doubt.

There's no way around it, Mike's logic doesn't hold up, and no amount of pouty frowny emoticons will make it any better. Sorry dude.

[mediumsnowman]

Wait, how many other people did you send that message to? Did you tell them all that you're a vanilla townie? Why did you seem so apprehensive about claiming to Molly when you had already claimed to people you have far less of a reason to trust?

I claimed to three people; Anthony, Elijah, and Molly. I saw no downside in claiming to them as I'm only a vanilla. I was more apprehensive about people with actual Power Roles claiming to Molly before a counterclaiming blocker had the chance to speak up.

[def]

I claimed to three people; Anthony, Elijah, and Molly. I saw no downside in claiming to them as I'm only a vanilla. I was more apprehensive about people with actual Power Roles claiming to Molly before a counterclaiming blocker had the chance to speak up.

What about your master plan to fake a power role though? You had already claimed to a fifth of the players, And why do you think a cop verified vanilla townie can be the spokesman of the town block ? There's a lot of criticisms you're not addressing.

[mediumsnowman]

What about your master plan to fake a power role though? You had already claimed to a fifth of the players, And why do you think a cop verified vanilla townie can be the spokesman of the town block ? There's a lot of criticisms you're not addressing.

I never planned to actually claim a power role. If by my actions in the day thread I could make the scum think I had a Power Role, and kill me for it, my mission would be complete and give an actual Power Role one more night to work their magic.

If you investigate someone, and receive a town result, there's only a slim chance they are the Godfather. A town block is useless if you can't communicate results, so a mouthpiece is required. It's better if they are vanilla so if the scum decides to go after the mouthpiece the block doesn't lose anyone important.

Also, where is everyone? It seems it's a lot quieter today. I have a bad feeling we're both town and the sleepers are sitting in the shadows watching...

If you decide to lynch me today, so be it. Just know I am town and am trying to do what is best for the town. I understand if you may not agree with my methods; I'm still pretty much a n00b and haven't quite got everything figured out yet. That will only come with experience.

[MagPiesRUs]

I never planned to actually claim a power role. If by my actions in the day thread I could make the scum think I had a Power Role, and kill me for it, my mission would be complete and give an actual Power Role one more night to work their magic.

The problem here is that you're still operating under the assumption that everyone you'd already claimed to are all definitely town, and that the scum didn't know about your role until Elijah revealed it publicly. I don't know why you are so confident that Elijah and Anthony are town, when neither have done anything especially townie.

I have a bad feeling we're both town

I'd hope you would have a feeling you're both town, considering you claimed to him on night one.

[mediumsnowman]

The problem here is that you're still operating under the assumption that everyone you'd already claimed to are all definitely town, and that the scum didn't know about your role until Elijah revealed it publicly. I don't know why you are so confident that Elijah and Anthony are town, when neither have done anything especially townie.

I have a good read on them, and I genuinely think they're both town. If I had a PR I wouldn't have claimed at all, plain and simple. As a vanilla I felt it was a risk worth taking.

I'd hope you would have a feeling you're both town, considering you claimed to him on night one.

Sorry, that didn't read like it should. I know I'm town, I have a feeling Elijah's town; I have a bad feeling the scum are hiding in the shadows watching our argument with childish glee. Got it?

[CMP]

I have a good read on them, and I genuinely think they're both town. If I had a PR I wouldn't have claimed at all, plain and simple. As a vanilla I felt it was a risk worth taking.

To what end? Would could you have possibly have expected to happen? What did claiming accomplish? Whether any of the three are town or scum, I don't see what you were expecting to get done.

I'll Vote: Mike Johnson (mediumsnowman). This seems like a really ill-conceived scheme to do...something? I guess?

I'll change it if Molly comes up with something solid.

[mediumsnowman]

To what end? Would could you have possibly have expected to happen? What did claiming accomplish? Whether any of the three are town or scum, I don't see what you were expecting to get done.

I'll Vote: Mike Johnson (mediumsnowman). This seems like a really ill-conceived scheme to do...something? I guess?

I'll change it if Molly comes up with something solid.

I'm... not sure how to respond to this. I was trying to reach out to potential allies and try and get a town block going? I don't know anymore. It was a good plan in my head but it seems to have gone to shambles. Maybe I'm just bad at communicating my thoughts. I don't know.

[def]

I'm... not sure how to respond to this. I was trying to reach out to potential allies and try and get a town block going? I don't know anymore. It was a good plan in my head but it seems to have gone to shambles. Maybe I'm just bad at communicating my thoughts. I don't know.

It simply looks like you're the godfather.

[mediumsnowman]

It simply looks like you're the godfather.

I know my word doesn't count for much right now but I'm not the Godfather. I am in fact the towniest of towns.

If you lynch me today, and when I flip town tomorrow, you're going to say I was clearly a reverse death miller Godfather, aren't you Elijah?

[def]

Not my style. Lot's of time left in the day though, so your lynch is nowhere near guaranteed.

[Dragonfire]

I just don't understand why you found this sinister. Do you still think it's sinister? Why? Foorth also agreed it was sinister, so maybe I'm just missing something here. Foorth, can you explain why it was sinister?

Exactly. Trying to dodge the point here, he is. I asked him this:

To be honest, this seems as if you're just looking for an excuse to justify a weak, baseless vote. What sinister undertones could it have had?

And I was going to bring this up today as well, Dink just got to it first.

And he vaguely replies, giving no reasons, and trying to frame me for committing OMGUS.

Oh yes, because all early Day One votes are completely airtight cases that are founded upon fantastic evidence. Why haven't you called out any other early Day One votes? Anthony voted for Elijah just for laughs. You don't find that suspicious?

Are you just calling out my votes because I'm the one who went after you? Did I perhaps strike a nerve? Excellent!

Sorry if I still hold on to my suspicion of you. Calm yourself, friend. It'll be fantastic!

You know what?

Vote: Woodcock (Bob.) You're avoiding giving reasons for suspecting me because there are none. You're stubbornly clinging to a weak Day One suspicion which is not backed up whatsoever by anything. I would still be voting for you if it had been anyone else you suspected.

The question is though - How is it going to be proven? If someone else steps up and says "I'm the blocker" how are you going to decide who is lying and who's telling the truth? Best to go with your gut instincts than waiting. What I find somewhat scummy about your post is that you haven't taken a clear standpoint, you're sitting on the fence deliberating with yourself which isn't helping the town.

Appear to be deliberating in thread, I may, but have you considered it could be a ploy? What goes on in thread and in PMs can be very different

If you investigate someone, and receive a town result, there's only a slim chance they are the Godfather. A town block is useless if you can't communicate results, so a mouthpiece is required. It's better if they are vanilla so if the scum decides to go after the mouthpiece the block doesn't lose anyone important.

Not true. In the two previous games, the investigator investigated the Godfather on Night Two and as a result, scum won. (other things helped them win, too, of course). And we already have a mouthpiece: Molly. If the protector protects her every night, she can continue to communicate results. Look as if you are trying to weasel your way into the town block, you do. You hope to look town by offering yourself as a mouthpiece when there's no need to

Sorry, that didn't read like it should. I know I'm town, I have a feeling Elijah's town; I have a bad feeling the scum are hiding in the shadows watching our argument with childish glee. Got it?

You don't just go and randomly claim to people if you're town. You should know, two games ago you were scum and you went and randomly claimed vanilla to me early in the game, and you were on my scum-list for the rest of the game. If you just have a feeling he's town, don't claim to him for goodness' sake! You're only narrowing down the pool of potential PRs for the scum to kill.

[def]

Just a little recommendation, people should start posting and voting...

[mostlytechnic]

Yeah, as I said I didn’t put much stock into my suspicion because I usually find you suspicious regardless of circumstances, for whatever reason. But fluff doesn’t somehow excuse you or anyone else from scrutiny. And I wouldn’t go as far as to say I had a “scum-read” on you yesterday. I was trying to admit my own bias with my suspicion of you, which makes it even less of a “scum-read.”

How do you say it's not a scum-read when you literally said "I find ewan scummy"??? My point wasn't that you brought up a scum read, it's that you were stating a scum read with NO basis for it. I'd literally made a fluff day 1 post or two and you were calling me scummy from that. Why? If you have a reason, great, share it so we can discuss. But this felt more like just random throw crap out, see if it sticks, and have something to look like you're contributing.

Ping away dude. Anthony was pretty much joking with his vote (I won't speak for him though). When I come in on day one telling people I'm town, it's an old joke, one you and many other players have seen time and again. You are correct that I have equal chance to be godfather as anyone else in this game, as I already said, but it's equally true that I'm very unlikely to be godfather twice in a row.

I didn't call you scum for stating literal facts, I called you scummy for following a dumb joke of an accusation (Anthony's) with a serious one of your own. I know you, as scum, don't want me around. We'll have to wait and see how far you push it.

Note, I haven't pinged on Anthony for saying something very similar. You are the one pinging, and my only lynch candidate so far today.

I know Anthony was joking; that's why I didn't discuss him. I know you always claim town; that's why I wasn't discussing that. Obvious jokes are fine. I ONLY was critical of you claiming you can't possibly be godfather because you were before. And that's not true. And then after I pointed it out you got defensive and started accusing be of being scummy for pointing out that you lied about facts.

Ewan... why are you so obsessed with the chance that Elijah is the godfather? I don't disagree with your assertion that he's no more or less likely to be Godfather this time, but this seems to miss the whole point of us trying to find scum. Sure it's possible he's the Godfather but it's a lot more likely that he's any flavor of scum (and even more likely that he's not scum at all from a purely mathematical standpoint) and you seem to be ignoring that possibility in favor of something less likely. We need to find all the scum, not just the Godfather, and you're harping on math. The math works out the same for all of us until we analyze behavior. I don't find Elijah's mathematical statement to be any more or less scummy than his claim to be the towniest of townies.

I'm not saying he's the godfather. Odds are high that he is not. However, there's always a chance. More importantly, not only has he lied about the odds, now he's twisting my words, accusing me of being scummy, bringing up other things that are off topic, all trying to distract. And THAT IS behavior we can and should analyze. That's the only reason I'm still talking about it. Yes, mathematically speaking he's probably vanilla town. That's the most likely. But his behavior is saying otherwise. Vanilla town don't need to twist and distract when they're accused.

I was getting a good town read on you and thought I'd reach out to some potential allies. I thought you had made some good points and wanted to get you on board to lynch TPRU. I am vanilla town, and now that you've spilled the details of my claim to everyone I can't try and draw the night kill away from our legit PR's. Good job.

How on earth do you get a "good town read" on anyone from day 1? That's just ludicrous.

[KotZ]

Any updates on claims, Molly? I'd rather not vote until we have a better understanding of where we stand, unless I really need to vote now.

I think Ray makes an interesting point on Woodcock, but perhaps the strongest lead points towards Mike just because of the weird things.

I'm... not sure how to respond to this. I was trying to reach out to potential allies and try and get a town block going? I don't know anymore. It was a good plan in my head but it seems to have gone to shambles. Maybe I'm just bad at communicating my thoughts. I don't know.

I mean, I understand communication can be difficult, but I think it was a weird decision for you to reach out like that this early in the game.

I'm going to wait another hour or two before I cast my vote. If Molly doesn't bring anything by then to the forefront then I'm voting for you, Mike. Sorry.

[Lady K]

Good Morning everyone, a good day for a song? Yes it is! Our town cop got a great investigation result last night.......we got our first confirmed scum! Anthony has been very deceiving and naughty!

Vote: Anthony Dixon (jluck)

Don't let this stop discussions on other suspects, this is only one down and with the wording of the rules we have more than one enemy faction out there!

And two of you have still not claimed to me yet. You know who you are, don't make me name you.

[KotZ]

Good Morning everyone, a good day for a song? Yes it is! Our town cop got a great investigation result last night.......we got our first confirmed scum! Anthony has been very deceiving and naughty!

Vote: Anthony Dixon (jluck)

Don't let this stop discussions on other suspects, this is only one down and with the wording of the rules we have more than one enemy faction out there!

Really? After all of that Day 1 trouble? This is good news. Maybe now I can try to hit that low note I can never seem to get.

Vote: Anthony Dixon (jluck)