Bionicle 2008 Images and Discussion

[dviddy]

Your market points are invalid-

Just look at Lego Star Wars. They release updated versions of ships they've already released about hey, once every five years. In fact, the Droid Fighter has been re-done slightly and re-released in the same year about three times.

Yet Lego Star Wars is the second highest selling Lego line.

Maybe it's brand recognition. But if Bionicle is the number one/two selling Lego line, can stores afford to tell TLG they won't stock the product? Do you think Toys R Us is going to tell TLG that they don't want TLG's number one selling building product?

I'm also not sure where you're getting the rounder Akaku Nuva statement from- I didn't make it.

I don't want exact copies of the Nuva; that's why I dislike ToM's 'Nuva Update' project. They're boring. They are.

But so are these. Because just like ToM's project, we've seen these before. Same design, same build, same damn pieces we've gottin in every damn canister set for the past two-three years.

But what I do want is sets that evoke the originals. These do not.

One out of two colors is not alright, as Jinzo stated, that's half-assing it.

Especially when we've been told that the designers set out to specifically recreate the Nuva.

And why is it important for Kopaka to have a shield? Because it's an integral part of what makes the character. Same with Pohatu's girth and feet. It was a unique aspect that only they carried. Onua Nuva had best be hunchbacked. Because he always has been, and always must be, because it's part of the character (this is especially important if they're going with the 'they just put on new armour' idea, because then Onua's anatomy will have changed with his new armour, and that's not exactly square with the story, now is it?)

It's the little things like those that would silence most of the negative feedback on the new Nuva. Give Kopaka an effin' shield. Give Pohatu something on his feet. Give Lewa his old green back.

Give them masks that at least evoke the original. I don't want copies. I want something that looks plausibly like it could be the same mask, yet different. Most of the Nuva masks shared some sort of design cues with the Olda masks. Kopaka's eyepiece is a step in the right direction. Pohatu's mask is not.

If the fanbase that existed with the Nuva doesn't exist, statistically, and the new market had no knowledge of these Nuva, and has no '2002' bias, then it makes little sense from a marketing perspective to create sets that don't resemble the originals in such a manner that you can look at them and go 'Oh, that's a new version of the same character, I can tell by how it looks'. The old base will, to some extent greater than their current buying prowess, buy, and the newer base will buy because the 'style' is that which they apparently prefer. It's win-win.

Plus, modifying the molds that produced the Nuva/Olda masks to make new masks must be cheaper than creating brand new ones. That saves TLG money.

<<DV>>

[Clonie]

LEGO has no choice. Take a look at 2006. Woah! A ton of new pieces never before seen, on both PIraka and Inika! Guess what? Clones, clones, clones, clones, clones. Woah! Visorak have new limbs, new pieces, Hordika have new bodies, new pieces! Clones, clones, clones. Woah! Toa Metru have tons and tons of new pieces, with so much more poseability than the Rahkshi! Clones. Rahkshi? Clones. Bohrok? CLones.

See a pattern?

That's just coz they didn't notice that you don't have to either make every single limb piece new OR make differentiated sets. For example, instead of making those new sockets, they could have made two new chest parts to go with the Inika back and Metru hip, Jaller Mahri style. Then they'd look a bit newer.

[JINZONINGEN73]

Honestly, I hated the Nuva. Their limbs BLEW as bad as their masks did lol.

Now a throwback to the Mata (Olda?) or whatever they're called... THAT would be awesome.

Honestly, I haven't liked any of the masks as much as I did Lewa's Miru from 2001.

[Lord Thrawn]

Because it was anime like right? Agreed. The original masks were definately the best in my opinion because we had no idea or grounds to judge them on. When the Nuva masks came along we had a conception of what they should look like and so people liked them less. In my opinion that is the reason. Whether the masks and sets would have been such a hit if the olda had, for example, Inika masks is debatable.

[Clonie]

I doubt it. Those are ugly. I don't mind the rubber concept, they're just freaky.

The official name for the 2001 Toa is Toa Mata, Jinz. :-)

[Tohst]

Your market points are invalid-

I don't think his points are invalid. Just subject to interpretation. That his points mirror what Greg F. seems to be saying make them no more or less valid. I've said it before. Greg is in a tough spot. Despite what he personally believes he has to put the best face on whatever the final Lego decision is. And part of why I put this clairfication is because of how Greg seems to say people who disagree with them are flat out wrong, not that they have a different opinion or interpretation. Lego has made mistakes in the past and most assuredly have done things that may not be mistakes but didn't optimize market share. That they focus group and but industry experts on the job doesn't mean they are infallible. Microsoft's Bob, IBM's OS/2 Warp, Apple's iPhone price cut, Lego's Galidor, Lego's grey color change. I could go on but I'm misting up here.

Just look at Lego Star Wars. They release updated versions of ships they've already released about hey, once every five years. In fact, the Droid Fighter has been re-done slightly and re-released in the same year about three times.

Yeah, but Star Wars is the zombie property. Its risen from the grave so many times it is the exception to most everything.

I'm also not sure where you're getting the rounder Akaku Nuva statement from- I didn't make it.

But what I do want is sets that evoke the originals. These do not.

Probably from me. It was one of the things I feel makes Kopaka Kopaka like your list. And yeah, the original masks are so much better than the Nuva melted versions. I do like the new Toa. I just agree with you that as the original Toa redone, they are disappointing. What makes me really sad is Kopaka's original mask is on the small side to look good on the new larger Toa which makes it hard to even MOC without him coming out a pinhead.

-Tohst

[Clonie]

Some new info:

- The six Matoran are Matoran of Light (Av-Matoran).

- Gavla is indeed female.

- Vamprah is male.

- There will be a female villain in the second wave. No word on what kind of set (canister or box).

- Phantoka means Spirits of the Air.

- More evidence that Kirop, Gavla and Radiak are infected/posessed.

- There may be some factors that allow the Toa Nuva to stand a chance against the Makuta.

- Icarax may be the same size as the other three Makuta.

[Shakar]

Now I really can't wait for 2008. I'm so glad I skipped the 2007 summer sets! One more thing:

6:Have you seen the Icarax set?

6) Only briefly, long time ago

7:Could you describe it as creepy?

7) All the 2008 villains are creepy

Shakar

[VBBN]

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[Lord Admiral Helden Ravensdorn]

Icarax is a Makuta, but not our makuta, and not any of the new 2008 makuta, but a different makuta that the Toa Nuva encountered.

Hot damn, this is still confusing! X-O

[VBBN]

that’s for sure lol

[Lord Admiral Helden Ravensdorn]

You win! :-D

[Zarkan]

Icarax is a Makuta, but not our makuta, and not any of the new 2008 makuta, but a different makuta that the Toa Nuva encountered.

Hot darn, this is still confusing!

I can't say that I'm confused. Then again, I haven't been confused by a single element in the bionicle storyline, athough a few "how questions" still bother me. X-D

[zero1312]

But I'm confused now. Who is who? *wacko*

[Clonie]

[bASIL FAWLTY]Look, it's perfectly simple![/bASIL FAWLTY]

Chirox, Antroz and Vamprah are the three canister Makuta coming in January. (They all wear masks. Yay.)

The Makuta of Metru Nui is the one we know from 01-07, a.k.a Ultimate Dume or Maxilos. His name will be revealed in 2008, some time in February.

Icarax is the Makuta of Karzahni's region, another (exclusive) set coming out in January, and will include Makuta Metru's Mask of Shadows, most likely in a new shape.

Got it? *sweet*

[BrotherDog]

[bASIL FAWLTY]Look, it's perfectly simple![/bASIL FAWLTY]

Chirox, Antroz and Vamprah are the three canister Makuta coming in January. (They all wear masks. Yay.)

The Makuta of Metru Nui is the one we know from 01-07, a.k.a Ultimate Dume or Maxilos. His name will be revealed in 2008, some time in February.

Icarax is the Makuta of Karzahni's region, another (exclusive) set coming out in January, and will include Makuta Metru's Mask of Shadows, most likely in a new shape.

Got it? *sweet*

Hmmmmmm....

So it's kind of like when, Marklar had Marklar over for Marklar on Marklar.

Got it now, and Thanks. ;;D

[JINZONINGEN73]

Because it was anime like right? Agreed. The original masks were definately the best in my opinion because we had no idea or grounds to judge them on. When the Nuva masks came along we had a conception of what they should look like and so people liked them less. In my opinion that is the reason. Whether the masks and sets would have been such a hit if the olda had, for example, Inika masks is debatable.

INDEED.

When I first saw Bionicle... NO! When I first saw Lewa, I said to myself, "Oh damn... Lego went and turned those ugly Throwbot things into anime mecha. Great, another thing to collect!"

But then the Nuva designs came out & crapped all over a large chunk of my hopes for the line, to which it's never recovered.

And really... the awfulness of Exo-Force doesn't bring Lego any closer to anime (though props to them for the Goku minifig hair).

Some argue, "Bionicle in a more anime look? OMG, you want GUNDAMS!" ...no, no I don't. But I do want sets that don't look like butt. Lego really needs some japanese character designers. BADLY.

[Lord Admiral Helden Ravensdorn]

I'd disagree with you on the japenese designers point, except that anybody would be better than their current designers :P

What first drew me in was not so much the sets but the mythology. MNOLG1 was jus'... the best. Really. That is, IMHO, the greatest flash game to have ever been made, and it is still a thrill to play through 7 years later.

Aaand then Greg took a crap on the storyline.

[Zarkan]

And really... the awfulness of Exo-Force doesn't bring Lego any closer to anime (though props to them for the Goku minifig hair).

Er, I can't agree with that at all. (looks at massive exo-force collection on display shelves. 8-| )

Aaand then Greg took a crap on the storyline.

In your opinion. There are still plenty of people that like the current storyline, even here. Also, how many times do I have to say that Greg isn't as all powerful as you think he is? He has a whole story team he works with, so Bionicle is not his massive sandbox to play around with. Also, you realize how difficult it is to make a storyline when TLC cares far more about set sales than storyline? The storyline in fact is just another Bionicle promotion in TLC's mind. :-|

Besides, you can't expect Greg to please everyone. While you hate the current storyline and say it's awful, I happen to love it. It's all a matter of perspective. ;-)

[JINZONINGEN73]

Er, I can't agree with that at all. (looks at massive exo-force collection on display shelves. look.gif )

And, at least at my Walmart, they sit.

Good parts sources at discount though... and so very not anime looking.

[Zarkan]

Well, seriously, I don't think TLC was trying to make an exact clone of Gundam, you know, despite the obvious anime references. Exo-force is a line of it's own, and I happen to like it the way it is (although this year's summer lineup was a bit mediocre asside from the golden tower). ;-)

Actually, though, the comics they make for the website really look good, despite the average at best dialogue. But... wait, why are we talking about exo force anyway? This is Bionicle 2008 images! *wacko*

Anyway, we know of course that the new bionicles are going to sell well, regardless of the minorities opinion (which is unfortunately us). BZP's given them a wide approval, but considering that 2/3's of the people there are probably under age 11, it doesn't surprise me at all. :-/

~~END~~

[Corvus]

As I see more pictures, the more I change my view on 2008. :-|

For the most part, I hate the new bionicle, for a few reasons.

Reason one:

The continuation of tall, skinny toa. I was so hoping this would improve... But no, TLC throws out more skinny...things... that I'll probably throw out and build something else entirely out of them.

Reason two:

More standardized launchers! How I hate them... This detracts from their elemental powers and are much too big. These seem smaller than last years, but I still hate them. These might not be too bad for security cannons in my base, though.

Reason three:

The worst of all. Those horrible balls on the bad guys. This really looks like something Megabloks would make. I'll probably burn these, and film it for everyone's enjoyment.

Reason four:

The little guys seem just as big as the original toa. Ugh.

I do have some good views, howver.

Good point one:

This is an interesting idea. All flying toa. Of course, this makes the Toa of Air's specialty not so special, but...

Good point two:

They're not all standard. One of the baddies has wings and no real legs. That's really, really different.

We do have some interesting parts this year. I have no idea whether this is good or bad, but the cool weapons are in the cheap new silver. |-/

[Clonie]

Hmm.

Well, there's no reason one has to like either one end of Bionicle or the other. I like the story straight through, though I admit 2005 and 2006 were bumps in the road. I know the feel has changed a lot, but that's what they were going for. I guess what some people want is the same feel every year. Yay. Fun.

Greg did say that if you didn't like 2006 or 2007 you wouldn't like 2008, so I don't know what you're all disappointed about. :-P But 2009, I think, will restore something that drew in the first fans. I can feel it. X-D

With these new sets... I dunno. I don't really care about the Nuva, not so much their lack of resemblance to their old selves, but their designs, which are reused... but I really like those Makuta. And the Ignika (namely the surfboard thing). The Matoran are kinda crap because they don't look like they have more than twenty parts each... Which is less than the Turaga. Oh well, I suppose it brings us back to the 7-piece McToran in a way, except these are ugly, but granted since three are evil.

Anyway, I'm not really peeved, I complain every time leaked pics come out and then end up liking them. Not to be confused with forcing myself to like them *coughHeldenthinksIforcemyselftolikethembecausethey'reBioniclecough*.

Bionicle sets are like my children -- I love them all.

Well, I'm not a parent.

[Zarkan]

I actually think the matoran are the best of the 2008 lot we've seen. They seem to have a lot of great parts, and the masks are wonderful! ( I mean on the good matoran, not the seemlingly infected ones) Those are probably the only bionicle's I will be buying until summer, and even then, maybe not more. :-)

[Visorak-kal]

Going back to DV, my market points are not invalid, simply because they are not my market points. They are market points that have been stated multiple times by TLG and Greg Farshtey as to why they have not released the Toa Nuva in 06 or sooner than this coming year. As Tohst said, they are indeed up to interpretation, but they are not invalid points. I don't claim to be a professions marketer or anything like that, I am simply repeating what has been The LEGO Group's official statements on the subject of re-releasing the Nuva. I simply assume this is why they may not look exactly like the originals.

I don't really find the recent Toa that skinny; they seem to be evenly distributed, if you ask me. I remember Kongu Inika was relatively skinny, but Matoro Inika and Pohatu Nuva and Lewa Nuva don't seem that skinny to me.

I do wish the Matoran had more build to them, but I admit that they still look very neat, and the unique masks is a definite plus!

Clonie, I actually found that 2004 and 2005 sufferered a bit, due to the movies. I saw 2006 as the return of a mysterious and innovative BIONICLE. The movies in 2004-2005 really caused the storyline to suffer, as the whole year just built up to one movie, and basically the earlier portions of the year were pointless, and the story of BIONICLE was tied to the moviemakers, not those who actually work for LEGO and have been with BIONICLE since its conception. 2007 I think has been the best year since 2001. I look forward to seeing how 2008 will compare, with story and sets.

And I think we all feel more partial to the sets once they come out. Seeing the real official pictures of a set is far more influential than leaked pics. I feel this myself, as sets always seem to grow on me as time goes by. It could just the type of fan we are, Clonie. :-D

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