Should technic go back to studs?

[SMC]

Back on topic: I really wish Technic figures came back. They really add to playability in terms of role playing.

I agree with this, it would also help the transition for kids. I started buying technic when I was a young kid and I spent hours playing with then as you would with normal minifigures. Even as an afol having a driver as also nice.

[Sylvian]

Greg said it..

[2x4Studios]

I really love the ability to compact and façade builds better with the new system, but both have their strong points.

[Boxerlego]

While I see your point, there is some problem with this part, both as is (with an apparent kingpin) and after you add a caster. I say 'apparent' because what this part does is tilt the whole wheel/tire by some angle, and this is different from a kingpin. If you take the part you're showing and attach a wheel/tire to it, the whole wheel/tire will be tilted by the same amount as the kingpin. The best parts for making kingpin/caster are the latest hubs from 42000 as you can offset the top/bottom towball connections either sideways (kingpin) or fore-aft (for caster). The combination of the three A-arms below (old, new, narrow) makes for a good palette to choose from. I'm confident that the combination of parts below, togethrr with some offsetting connectors opens up substantially the options for suspension tweaking (even multi-link)

In contrast, the parts below, and while we love them very much, offer no option for suspension geometry tweaking.

We are thinking about two different type of axles setups. Your are more focused on a independent Front axle setup ,while I am more focused on a dependent beam axle suspension design. Now even though the KPI is way to much here in the LEGO example I have provide a picture schematic for comparison to show what it is I'm referencing too with my LDD LEGO example.

Front Beam Axle Picture Schematic

[DrJB]

While I see your point and 'understand' what you're trying to achieve, I wonder how difficult it will be to replicate with Lego (not saying it's impossible). The challenge is finding/building a wheel spindle that goes from the inclined angle you're showing, to a horizontal axle to hold the tire. The 'real' solid axle you're showing too requires some 'special/tilted' spindles.

But then again, I've been rather pleasantly surprised many times at the very ingenious contraptions people have come up with on here (my favorite is the offset hypoid gear). So, definitely awaiting for your solution

[DrJB]

Here is my attempt at using those parts and a 'special' spindle. As you can see, even with a tilted kingpin, the axis intersects the ground way outside the tire's footprint. Of course this is due to my construction having a large lateral offset, but it's the best I could come up with for now. Anyone with ideas for a better spindle? The red sculpture in the back started as a multi-link suspension then evolved into some random/triangular/spiral shape.

kingpin.lxf

Edited April 22, 2015 by DrJB

[DrJB]

Here is a slightly improved version, I reduced the offset by one M. In the pic below you'll see the original design on the right and the reduced offset on the left.

This is starting to sound like a monologue

Edited April 23, 2015 by DrJB

[Boxerlego]

That looks great DrJB! I like those designs. Your right about ideas for a better spindle. The spindle Is going to be tough one and that's not all... another thing that poses a problem is the steering gear. I think the beam axle would be better if it was studdless.

The problem behind the axle spindle design is the tire could slip off.

A better idea would be the secure pin connection with the wheel but this has a set of its own problems to over come.

One miner design problem here is that it is built for CV joints to drive and that just wasted space for this beam axle. One nice thing about the Technic pin is that it can be frictionless and tires can rotate on it. This is used for smaller LEGO designs but here if scaled up for Technic models the single pin needs to be larger to support the large tire and the heavy model. This LEGO method would work out great for this beam axle because nothing is needed to drive the wheel. Now the next part is the drag link steering and tie rods along with the Ackermann steering geometry with the steering arms.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Boxerlego

[Boxerlego]

But then again, I've been rather pleasantly surprised many times at the very ingenious contraptions people have come up with on here (my favorite is the offset hypoid gear). So, definitely awaiting for your solution

Thank you DrJB. Here is my steering axle model. Its not really a solution but more along the lines of a show piece.

[9v system]

Interesting

[guandul]

Beams have a big mechanical advantage: They are symmetrical. With technic bricks you have to deal with the studs: Where to face them, when not in use?

With Technic models you usually find yourself building in four directions; you build from the center to the edge. Studs are designed to build from the floor to the top, usually one direction: UP

What I would like to see it’s a little more technic bricks in Technic sets, they are useful and right now it’s easier to find them in Creator/other sets that in Technic sets. Just take a look at The Tumbler (a lot of useful technic bricks).

[GoldCivetta]

I wish they would do more of a mix between the two more often, so I'm kinda neutral.

[knotian]

I'm just getting back into technic / mindstorms and working on automated / robotic machinery. As an example I built the color sorter 'robot' from the Educational Core and Expansion sets. At the same time I did the 42042 Crawler Crane. The crawler is a natural for pure studless construction (it did have a few blocks), however the sorter was not.

The sorter ran well but shook and shimmied ! Replacing the undercarriage made out of studless components with studded bricks made the whole thing more stable and reliable. Considerable savings in time and parts. The MOC that I am working on will need a stable base and the combined use of both types of construction real is 'required'. The two different types of construction work very well together and I hope that TLG continues to offer both.

Ed

[Vectormatic]

It recently occurred to me that swingarms no longer have the width/height different found on bricks/studded technic (yeah, that took a while, helps that the transition was made in my dark ages and i only recently dug out my old technic), that alone for me is a reason to prefer studless technic.

Also, technic models dont need studs anywhere, studless gives it all a much cleaner look, and it fits the fairing panels much better as well

[Trawler Man]

No. As much as I loved the studded Technic back in the day...the studless thing looks and feels so much better.

[LennyRhys]

Since buying two studless models (42042 and 42030) I have fallen in love with the new style of technic... but that's not to say that "old" style technic beams are no longer relevant. Without any exception, structures made of bricks and plates are stronger than anything made with liftarms and beams. But the new style of technic is quicker and easier to prototype with, and IMO is also more fun because there are more ways to put pieces together.

On a side note, I find that the "studless vs studded" debate is a bit misleading, because there have been many other changes to the technic inventory which have significantly changed the design of sets - for example, things like combinations of pins and bushes, axles with integrated stops, connectors etc. which make compact structures much easier than before. Studless beams are the tip of the iceberg.