Clone Brands Train discussions

[WesternOutlaw]

We have one dedicated topic to discuss Non-LEGO Train brands. This is it. Please do not start any more topics related to Enlighten or other non-LEGO train brands if no one responds to your initial question. As you are new to our forum, I would also recommend you introduce yourself so that others can get to know you. I don't mean to come off harsh, but I try to keep the kiddies, non-LEGO, and silly topics from dominated the forum in an organized manner.

You're welcome to discuss your question here.

[kyphur]

I have just seen a lot of talk about them and I wondered if the chemicals used in the plastic, dye, or paint are safe to have especially around young children.

I can't say for sure exactly what the plastic content is but I can tell you that the only reason US Customs banned Enlighten products for commercial import was due to copyright/trademark infringement. Not only were all of their sets direct copies of LEGO Official Sets at one point but their box art was so close to identical that Customs agreed it was designed to intentionally mislead consumers into believing they are purchasing Official LEGO products.

While the plastic may be of inferior quality to TLG's mix I can't say it does or doesn't contain lead or something.

[Laura Beinbrech]

Well, since this thread has been bumped, I figured I might as well add a few notes/things of interest: Enlighten is the company that was recently sued by LEGO (and lost) due to their bootlegging of LEGO Pirate sets (and it seems they're still up to their old tricks with the train sets now). I don't mind competition, but blatantly ripping off someone else' design is a big No-No! as far as I'm concerned.

Secondly, after doing a bit of research, it appears that the Ban-Bao/Sluban trains (the ones that have the non-built locomotive) are, in fact, bootlegs of OXFORD trains! (Yes, the Chinese bootleggers are even bootlegging clone brands), but in this case it's probably because, at least according to most reviews I've seen, Oxford's quality is close to or equal to LEGO's quality standards, and they're big in the East Asian Market (heaven help LEGO if they ever break into the North American/European toy market, if their quality is as good as everyone makes them out to be). I've just recently ordered the one Oxford Navy Ship (King Sejong the Great DDG), and I'll see for myself how they stack up against LEGO in terms of quality (they already have LEGO beat on price: This set is about twice as big as the Black Pearl, and even with outrageous overseas shipping fees, still costs at least $20 less), and if I like what I see, I may order one of their train sets. I'll be sure to post the review in this thread or over in the Community forums.

I hope that this information might help sort things out a bit when it comes to Clones vs Bootleggers... It seems that BanBao/Sluban also bootleg other Oxford sets, particularly the Oxford Military line....

[owl]

Hi,

I notice on ebay that "enlighten" are a Chinese producer of lego compatible track and train carriages made of ABS plastic.

Does anyone have any experience of these?

thanks

[kyphur]

I don't have any of the track but I've read in several places that it's 100% compatible.

As for the Rolling Stock & Engines, I have all of them. Here is my flicker set showing them with their LEGO counterparts:

Click here

The quality is less (I'd say about 80% as good as LEGO) but they're compatible.

BTW, here's a thread with quite a discussion about them.

Edited February 24, 2012 by kyphur

[owl]

wow, thanks for the reply!

and apologies for bringing this up again, clearly it has been discussed before.

owl

Edited February 24, 2012 by owl

[WesternOutlaw]

and apologies for bringing this up again, clearly it has been discussed before.

Not a problem Owl - it's been a while since anyone posted to this topic. I've merged your topic here.

[Hey Joe]

Hi Folks,

I'm wondering if anyone has any experience with using non-Lego tracks with their Lego trains? Specifically, I'm wondering if the Chinese brand 'Ban Bao' track will work? Kindly see attached jpeg.

Even though I'm a little new to this hobby I fully realize that perhaps I'm being a little blasphemous so maybe I should apologize, particularly since this is my first posting to this excellent forum. I've been living in China for awhile and am planning to return to the US sooner than later and I want to get some Lego stuff for my toddler (the impetus for my emergence from the Dark Ages) in the US (it's crazy expensive here with the import tax) and I've noticed that it's a bit of a problem to get straight tracks so I was thinking that perhaps some Chinese stuff might do the trick?

If you don't know that's totally understandable but maybe you could take some close up photos of the Lego track (the newer Power Functions-type) and/or post the dimensions? Perhaps either one would help (and would be better than nothing for sure)!

Ok, thanks in advance! Cheers, Joe

Oh, perhaps I should've posted this in the pinned 'Questions' topic?

Edited June 18, 2012 by bjtpro

[JopieK]

Alternative brands suck. We have discussed it here more often. So better invest in better LEGO brand stuff than that crap. In NL we have sluban. I was very disappointed by it. But it is nice that LEGO has competitors, that keeps them focussed and alert.

[Hey Joe]

Alternative brands suck. We have discussed it here more often. So better invest in better LEGO brand stuff than that crap. In NL we have sluban. I was very disappointed by it. But it is nice that LEGO has competitors, that keeps them focussed and alert.

Hi JopieK, I hear you about the alternative brands sucking and I'd agree with you to a certain extent. Mainly I just wanted to get some decent straight track which - it seems from surfing about - Lego isn't selling presently? If I'm wrong about that kindly smack me in the head. I don't care for eBay and have never used it but perhaps I should consider it?

Lego is so crazy expensive here (double US prices in the shops) that I've been picking up a few Chinese sets just to check them out so I'm familiar with SluBan and I'd say you have to pick and choose. I've built some of their buses, a battleship and a tank that I've been satisfied with (keep in mind that I bought them here locally in China and they were very reasonably priced). Some of their other stuff looks pretty hideous design-wise. The military stuff isn't an option with Lego of course and the buses were so cheap, I can't complain. I tried to post a pic of the battleship but I've not been alloted enough space.

BanBao (should be BangBao) is the better company IMO but then again, only some of their stuff is acceptable and it doesn't come close to 'the real thing'. Unfortunately their bricks are a little larger so I try to avoid them. They sell entire LEGO-like train sets which I'm not interested in, I just want the track!

Anyway, I just wanted to clarify why (there's also the old saying of "When in Rome..." which is probably having an effect on my thinking as well) I was wanting to go the Chinese route and thanks for your reply!

Edited June 18, 2012 by bjtpro

[JopieK]

Of course I don't know where you are from but in Holland prices are also quite high compared to the US. Germany is a bit better so I now and then buy stuff there. Same with the track, I hope to order some packs with straight (and of course that horrible flex, nice to have some but not in bulk!) from Germany soon..

[harnbak]

Please consider this first http://www.bricklink.com/catalogPG.asp?P=53401&colorID=85

Edited June 18, 2012 by harnbak

[Hey Joe]

Please consider this first http://www.bricklink.com/catalogPG.asp?P=53401&colorID=85

Ok Harnbak, I will, thanks. I've heard of BrickLink of course but haven't used it yet. Are those genuine Lego track pieces? The prices seem reasonable.

Oh, I'm from the States so when I look at the prices here in Beijing I nearly faint! Luckily I work near an outlet mall that has a toy shop so I can score a few things there (Atlantis and Duplo stuff mostly) and my Chinese wife helps me with the local version of eBay (Collectable Minifigs and a few Creator sets) but it still pisses me off when I look at the prices on Amazon. The larger sets are totally out of my price range even in those 'bargain' locales. So, I'm salivating over getting some train sets when I return Stateside!

[roamingstop]

Some of the good MOC'ers on this thread use the enlighten track simply because it looks more realistic (brown sleepers). It is probably cheaper than the real thing... but was perfectly functional. However this is not the same for the enlighten models which tend to have a 'fall apart' quality to them (clutch strength is not the same). A friend in the US bought a load from Enlighten and was disappointed in their quality. You get what you pay for.

An alternative would be to ask ME-Models how much their 9V compatible track runs to - this is a good combination of brown and metal track with potentially larger radius circles coming (one day). However once again shipping to China is the real problem.

Personally I would make do with Chinese track; but spend the good $$ on well made models.

[Andy Glascott]

And here's the link to ME Models, though I notice all their stuff is marked as sold out at the moment... Might be worth a look when you get back to the US.

Andy

[skinkfem]

Typing in banbao in brickshelf finds you a comparison of the track.

Apparently Banbao is slightly higher but i doubt there would be much problem with combining them.

seeing as you're currently in China and thus suffer no inflated shipping and intend to use

rc/powerfunctions track i see little reason why you shouln't hoard.

regards skinkfem

[Hey Joe]

Typing in banbao in brickshelf finds you a comparison of the track.

Apparently Banbao is slightly higher but i doubt there would be much problem with combining them.

seeing as you're currently in China and thus suffer no inflated shipping and intend to use

rc/powerfunctions track i see little reason why you shouln't hoard.

regards skinkfem

Awesome skinkfem, just what I was looking for, many thanks.

My logic is on the same track as yours, why not get some if it's compatible? It's just track. Maybe I can just use it to run a spur up to my winter village or some such thing? Even if it just sits in the box it's not like I'm out much money.

So I guess I'm publicly expressing my wish for a Winter Village train station and/or train set as well (from Lego of course)? Will keep my fingers crossed.

Edited June 19, 2012 by bjtpro

[MarkV]

Looking at decent quantities (>10) - in the USA - it's not far north of $2.50/piece for straight track (53401). I guess one could acquire a piece or two at a time for $1.90 to $2.00/piece, but the shipping would end up killing much (all) of a savings.

Given that puts 8 pieces at $20, why not just buy 7499? I'm asking because I'm new... please educate me and save me some money along the way.

Also, when pricing out sets that have track in them, it's always nice to use the 'savings' from the track you get to 'justify' the purchase :)

Mark

[Hey Joe]

Looking at decent quantities (>10) - in the USA - it's not far north of $2.50/piece for straight track (53401). I guess one could acquire a piece or two at a time for $1.90 to $2.00/piece, but the shipping would end up killing much (all) of a savings.

Given that puts 8 pieces at $20, why not just buy 7499? I'm asking because I'm new... please educate me and save me some money along the way.

Also, when pricing out sets that have track in them, it's always nice to use the 'savings' from the track you get to 'justify' the purchase :)

Mark

Hi Mark, I can't speak for the others and I'm new myself but I was reading the reviews of 7499 and it didn't sound like I wanted any flexible track (which makes up a sizeable portion of 7499). So, I was just casting about for alternatives.

[WesternOutlaw]

Hi Folks,

I'm wondering if anyone has any experience with using non-Lego tracks with their Lego trains? Specifically, I'm wondering if the Chinese brand 'Ban Bao' track will work? Kindly see attached jpeg.

...

Oh, perhaps I should've posted this in the pinned 'Questions' topic?

Hello bjtpro. We have a topic for non-LEGO train brands and I have moved your question here. Your question certainly belongs here as opposed to our General Question Topic. As this is a LEGO forum, I try to only maintain one topic to discuss off-brands but all are welcome to discuss them here.

EDIT: Personally, I try to never buy cheap LEGO clones (with the exception of a Creature from the Black Lagoon Mini-Mate). The Swamp Creature was not available at the time.

Carry on.

[MarkV]

Hi Mark, I can't speak for the others and I'm new myself but I was reading the reviews of 7499 and it didn't sound like I wanted any flexible track (which makes up a sizeable portion of 7499). So, I was just casting about for alternatives.

Yea, I figured one would just stockpile the flexi-track. It does come with 8 straight pieces and a bunch o' flexi. Anyway, my reference was really about Bricklinking Lego track pieces. It seems just easier to get 7499 than bricklink it for the same price. The non-flexi curved pieces are another story. They can be acquired in some of the train sets and I think the only other spot I saw them was in the Switching Tracks (7895) and there are only 4 per set. That makes them about $4/each if you don't need the switches. Probably cheaper on Bricklink in that case. On e-bay, someone has been selling 9 packs of ... I think it was 4520 for about $11/box (8 curves per box). I went this route. Figured I'm in good shape for a little while on curved track...

Anyway, good luck with your search!

[Hey Joe]

Well, this is a very interesting thread, to me anyway.

I'm curious if Enlighten trains are still available in the West? I've never seen any of their stuff in the market I sometimes go to here in Beijing (BaiRong, a mega-market basically the size of a small city where you can get just about anything you could ever possibly want and/or need).

[peterab]

Well, this is a very interesting thread, to me anyway.

I'm curious if Enlighten trains are still available in the West? I've never seen any of their stuff in the market I sometimes go to here in Beijing (BaiRong, a mega-market basically the size of a small city where you can get just about anything you could ever possibly want and/or need).

They tend to sell via Ebay, and as you can see are still available.

[Locomotive Annie]

I have both the Banbao trainsets, - the Hi-speed Train and the Freight set, - on layby at the moment and once they are delivered to my door I'll be more than happy to write a review. Banbao track is the same geometry as Lego and Enlighten and they will combine together, but the rails are just slightest bit taller than Lego and Enlighten's track. It's not enough to be a major problem though and would be very easy to remedy with a couple of strokes of a file.

I've purchased Banbao military sets in the past and I've found them to be generally Ok with accurately cast bricks with no flash and the set design is reasonable. The two faults that Banbao sets have is that the brick count is sometimes not correct with the occasional strange substitution and there will always be some bricks with poor clutch. Otherwise I'm happy enough to buy Banbao sets and the different brick sizing has never been a problem because I store my Banbao bricks separately from the others. Though once I got the hang of it and figured out the size ratio difference I didn't find it difficult at all to use Banbao bricks with other makes.In answer to anyone who is concerned that clone bricks aren't safe for children I think I can safely say that Enlighten's bricks are quite safe to handle as this illness I live with makes me sensitive to anything remotely toxic. So far I've been quite happily building things with bricks by Enlighten and a number of other makers including Lego and I haven't had a bad reaction to any of them yet. Not for a moment do I want anyone to think I've got anything against Lego because I haven't. I own a large amount of Lego bricks purchased both second hand from toy box clearances and also from Bricklink. Just lately I even purchased a couple of friends sets new as well as some 32x32 stud baseplates. It's just that I own a considerable amount of sets by clone makers as well and by and large I've found them to be alright. If there are any shortcomings I'm generally not bothered because most times the sets were cheap to buy in the first place. Yes there are sometimes bricks missing, - if that's the case I go to my storage bins and find replacements. Not worth raising any sweat over IMHO. And yes sometimes there are misshapen bricks in a set or ones that don't clutch well. Easily fixed, - I toss them in the bin. And just in case anybody is thinking that my bin must be overflowing with dud bricks it's not. Even with Liago who make the worst clone sets ever seen I would only have to throw away maybe three bricks at the most per set and with Cogo and Enlighten I've yet to throw away any at all.Just recently I assembled an Enlighten 628 passenger car and even with my dodgy powers of concentration and clumbsy fingers I had no problems putting it together. This coach is designed to open out on one side to access the interior, but I assembled it so it wouldn't open so it would be easier for me to handle, I'm not saying this coach is weak in its construction because it's not. The clutch on all the bricks and parts was really good and the bricks were all well formed and free from flash. The wheels roll quite freely too.

Why did I choose to buy it? Because Lego didn't have anything like it in their current range and certainly not for $NZ20 each. In appearance it's very like the suburban vestibule end carriages built in the 1930s that I traveled to school in when I was a much younger woman (And no I'm not that old, the NZR Aa class suburban carriages had a very long life and lasted in service into the 1990s). Eventually I'll do a little modding and make these Enlighten 628 carriages look a little more like an NZR Aa class subbie , but I'm happy with them for the moment.At the moment I'm building an 'R' class single Fairlie and some of it is Lego and some of it is Enlighten bricks. The boiler cantilevers out on a single Fairlie and is unsupported at the smokebox end. I was having problems getting the boiler to stay in place until I replaced the Lego bricks forming the lower part of the firebox with Enlighten ones. The Enlighten bricks had a much stronger clutch, so don't give me any more of that Lego purist nonsense. And another thing, Enlighten make a printed 'radar dish' part that nicely represents a smokebox door. It's even just about a perfect match for an 'R' class Fairlie, - so guess what I'll be using on my model.........

Edited November 10, 2012 by Locomotive Annie

[Locomotive Annie]

Having been a railway modeller for years makes me have a different approach to brick railways than most Lego enthusiasts. I like Lego, but if I see a perfectly good solution to a construction problem over the fence in Cloneland I'm not worried in the slightest about going over there and making use of it.

Track gets discussed a lot I've noticed and some forum members have problems with finding enough straight track. Everyone seems to universally hate the flexitrack because apart from anything else it's just plain awful looking. The sharp eyed among you would have noticed that the photo in my WIP single Fairlie thread shows my loco standing on some very un-Lego like track. This track is L gauge and it came from two utterly dreadful Chinese battery trainsets that I picked up very cheaply at a clearance sale. The trainsets I mined for motors, bogies, wheels and useful electrical bits and binned the rest. The thing that had drawn me to these trainsets was the surprising fact that all the rolling stock had plastic bogies that were almost exact scale copies of a certain type of real world narrow gauge bogie used on lightly laid industrial railways. The track I of course kept despite its odd gauge as I thought it might be useful despite the fact I was still working in 16mm scale on 45mm track at the time.

Later on once I'd discovered brick trains I was surprised to find that this oddly gauged track was in fact L gauge. As far as track goes it's Ok and is much the same as any of the plastic track from New Bright, Echo or Scientific Toys that I'd been using for my 16mm scale trains. The thing that is good about it is that the curves are a much larger radius than Lego track and the rails are the same height as Lego track as well. The fly in the ointment is the fact that the two types of track won't connect together, but I'm very sure that I can make an adapter piece so they can be joined.

After doing some further research I'm reasonably certain that my mystery track is in fact a knock-off of the track in Sluban's brick trainsets.

Don't go rushing off and buying any just yet as I've got a Sluban track set on order for research purposes and once it arrives I'll give a detailed report here on just how useful it might be to track starved brick train enthusiasts. It would be good if it does work though as the track set boxes cost 8.99 Euro and what you see in the picture is what you get.

So remember chaps don't go doing anything rash just yet. Wait until I've gone in and made sure it's safe.....

(With thanks to Artvixn for the use of this image)

Edited November 13, 2012 by Locomotive Annie