jodawill

Same here. I didn't see hate like this for Forest Hideout. This isn't much different - just a larger scale. I think we should be happy just to be able to buy soldiers again after 8 years of nothing.

Here's the link: https://brickcentral.net/review-lego-icons-10320-eldorado-fortress/ You weren't kidding! Those are beautiful photographs. I wish Lego still made posters like this. They really ought to bring back the comics, magazines, and posters, at least in the rewards center.

The masonry bricks would have looked way too blocky here. It was fine in the 2015 sets because they were simple playsets and were already much less detailed. They wouldn't fit in here and in many cases here it wouldn't have even been possible to use them.

I prefer Eldorado Fortress over the Galaxy Explorwr by far. I'm really glad to have the classic minifigures rereleased and it looks really good as a display piece, but it falls apart too easily if you try to play with it and there are a number of pieces that aren't as useful as they should be. I would have preferred to have a slope with the space logo. Having a tile instead makes it unnecessarily complicated to use it in MOCs. Some of the 2x2 tiles should have been 1x2s. I love to sit down for an hour and build a little spaceship. You can do that with the original. You can't do that with 10497. 10305 is insanely difficult to extend, but unlike the Galaxy Explorer, it's an excellent parts pack if you want to build your own castles. 10320 is a great parts pack, it looks pretty good (although obviously not on the same level as 10305), it appears to be easy to extend, and it has a lot of play value. Yeah, something completely original might be better, but I'm excited for all the possibilities this opens up for modifications and MOCs. That's what this set excels at that most adult sets don't.

It really is a shame though that this set doesn't really introduce any new minifigures. We have a generic pirate with no new parts and a redesign of a female pirate that already exists, and the rest of the minifigures are just updates on existing minifigures. It would have been great to have gotten at least one truly original minifigure here, whether it be Camilla or something similar to Steve. The Flynn Ryder minifigure in the new Disney castle would actually have been the best new character in Eldorado Fortress if they had put it in this set instead. I've seen licensed torsos on PAB occasionally. I hope that one shows up, but I'm not holding my breath.

These are actually the reasons I like this one and not the other. PoBB was just a huge mess. In my opinion, the island configuration subtracted from the set. It didn't add any value. I actually think it would have sold a lot better if they had released the ship alone. I honestly don't see how anyone looks at that big pile of crap and says, "Oh, I have to have this!" It's like Shipwreck Island. As a kid, I wanted to get it because it had some cool parts. But even back then, I thought, "What exactly is this supposed to be?" Eldorado Fortress was before my time. I wasn't even aware of its existence until I was an adult. I bought it off Craigslist about 10 years ago. I think I paid $50 for both it and Forestmen's Crossing, which was a steal back then, but highway robbery going off today's prices. I have no nostalgia associated with it, but to me, it's one of the greatest masterpieces Lego has ever made. I love that this new version takes the same design and just steps it up a notch. I never wanted the Lion Knights Castle treatment. It's such a design as it is, I've always thought that the improvements should come from the possibilities that new pieces give the designers. The things I see people complaining about are really trivial to change. It would only take a few common pieces to enlarge the dock and make it brown. You could copy the palm trees from PoBB if you don't like the classic look. Personally, I prefer the classic palm trees because they look like Lego. One of the issues I have with a lot of modern designs is that they become so sophisticated, they lose the charm that makes Lego so great. That's why I'm not a fan of things like the new crocodile. I think 10320 does a perfect job keeping the Lego charm while still making improvements, at least as far as they could go without making new molds. I definitely agree about the door. I hate plate doors. I doubt the designer had any options here. If I could be president of Lego, I'd bring back a lot of the old molds: Monkey torso Palm tree trunks (redesigned so they don't wear out) Large palm leaves Original parrot (dual molded is so much inferior to the printed ones!) Original crocodile and dragon Castle doors in at least two sizes Plumes... all of the plumes Coins I would also bring back the original jolly roger. The original prints weren't really the best quality. They really ought to make some really crisp new ones. I'm also glad the shakos aren't printed. They'll probably be between 17 to 25 cents on PAB. If they were printed, they'd probably be $1.25 or more. I kind of prefer the way they look too, although I like both.

The black dock really isn't odd at all. I drove under an old train trestle last night and you know what color it was? It was black as ebony. That's what a lot of old wood looks like. Personally, I would have been annoyed if they changed the color. I also like using black for tree trunks. When's the last time you saw a tree that's actually brown? If you take a step outside, you'll see that trees are actually white and varying shades of gray. They aren't really brown. Wood isn't really brown either until you stain it.

I don't mind the building being open in the back at all. It's great for play value. It doesn't really affect displaying because you can't see it from the front. The location of that cannon is definitely bizarre though. Is the "admiral" really ok with people blasting behind his desk? It looks very strange. I'm glad a third cannon is included because you can never have too many, but I don't think I'm going to put that one there when I get the set. Speaking of cannons, I originally thought that they were dark bluish gray. I looked at one of the new cannons yesterday that my son got in the pirate pack and I was surprised by how different that color appears than when the 2015 pirates wave came out. Those older ones weren't a solid color. For that reason, I never liked the pearl dark gray cannons. These new ones have a very solid, refined color. I actually love them. I think I'm going to stock up on them soon. They look great!

You know, I can't find a source for this, but I really think I've heard someone claim this before. You would think Bricklink would indicate this if it were so, but it doesn't. I also can't find any images of a new copy that has the comic. I think it's just sloppy research. It's kind of sad. There are so many AFOLs who could have created better promotional materials than what they created. It's not a problem that will keep me from buying the set, but it makes it feel like AFOLs are just an afterthought here. I mean, how hard would it be to get these details right? Read the Brickipedia article for the set and the comic. Look at the box of the original set. It's not that hard. It seems like whoever put this stuff together (literally!) didn't even spend 5 minutes doing the most basic research on this. Imagine, though -- what if they included a new copy of The Golden Medallion with this set, or if they added it to the rewards center? That would be so incredible, especially if they included the unpublished sequel!

Honestly, I think King Leo's Castle is an exceptionally bad set, even by 2000s standards. I actually just watched Jang's video about it yesterday. It's not even as well designed as the 4+ sets are today. I could go on for a long time about the flaws in that set because, to me, they outweigh the positive elements by a lot. The thing that always strikes me is that random sail in the back of the set. It's cool that it exists because you might be able to make a really cool ship with it, but the way it's just draped over the back of the set is one of the most bizarre things Lego has ever done in my opinion. I do love the baseplate though. I know some people who collect those for MOCs. 7094 was also heavily <insert that tiresome argument>, but it mostly retains the shape and features of the older, brick built castles. It only came in one other set, 10176 Royal King's Castle, which is actually a very similar looking set, although I think it's a slight improvement over 6098/6091. I get what you're saying though. One of the great things about Fort Legoredo is how it had that huge empty space in the center. I've always enjoyed filling it up with wagons, houses, etc. That set was also really easy to extend. There's a lot of play value in that. I like that approach. But I also like the kind of build we get with Eldorado Fortress because it's such an imposing structure. I love how compact it is because it looks so imposing and it has some great forced perspective. The beauty of 10320 is that you can use the modules to spread it out and you can build your own wall modules to space it out. I don't think it will be that difficult, especially compared to 10305, which is just completely beyond my level of skill. That's actually one of the reasons I'm glad they didn't do the Lion Knights Castle treatment to this. I want it to be simpler because I want someone with a lower level of skill like me to be able to add onto it. The Lion Knights Castle is just way too complicated for that, although it's an amazing set. I can only wish I had the skill to build something like that. Edit: Apparently you're not allowed to say jun1orized on this forum?

Well, we got the answer about the ramp. There's nothing underneath it. That's how the original line was also. And do you really want to spend $500 or more for a larger fort? If you don't like the scale, you can buy multiple copies of this one and build your own. That's what I'm going to do, although I'll also keep one copy separated forever because I love the set itself so much. With it being $215, we get a lot more bang for our buck. If you buy two copies, you get two sets of sails for $430 instead of just one, like the flags in 10305. I'm glad they included more photos of the instruction manual. It says they have a new governor, so the website is wrong in calling him an admiral. I think the designer put a lot of attention to detail into this, but the marketing people flubbed this up (big time in my opinion). It's not a huge deal, but it's definitely annoying when you look at the website and see minor details that are just factually incorrect, even when the instruction manual got it right.

I haven't seen much discussion on the new parts. What's new here besides the minifigures, sale, and flag? The one that stands out to me is the arched gate in reddish brown. I've really missed the old castle doors. I can't lie though - those brown gates, I don't hate them. That's actually a surprisingly good substitute. I'm going to buy tons of them when they become available on PAB. That may be my new go to for castles. Next question: What parts would you most like to have seen come back for this that didn't? The monkey is a big one for me, obviously. They're not too expensive on Bricklink, but that new one is just so sad compared to the articulation on the old one. Part of the classic Lego aesthetic is how they reused parts in the '90s. The monkey used minifigure arms and the dragon shared the tail and face with the crocodile. I'm not a huge fan of how the pieces are so specific for animals now. I would like to see a lot more animals that are so abstract they share body parts with others. I would like to see the original flag come back, but thankfully, that new flag isn't a prominent feature like it was in PoBB. It's interesting how the built the angled walls, but I can't help thinking it would have looked better if they brought back the original corner panel. I could be wrong though. I'll have to see it in person. Not to beat a dead horse on this topic, but as good as a job they did with the parts they had available, it would have been better if they brought back the original palm trees. But the original design was poor because they wore out. So that has me wondering, why not redesign them to use ball joints? Could you fit a ball and socket into the same amount of space? That would give the same level of articulation without having a mechanism that wears out. The torches also - the new design is probably the best you can do with the current parts selection, but I like the original better. That old black torch piece with a flame in it would have been cool. One more that comes to mind - and this is really nitpicking - is the color of the stem on the palm trees. I always preferred green and I wish they would bring that back.

I think at this point, they're just building up the hype for the eventual return. It will probably be displayed very prominently in the promotional materials for the medieval market village. They aren't just going to bring it back in some random CMF. It's going to be a main selling point in a large set.

Yeah, I don't think any of it is supposed to make sense. You know, somehow the set looks absolutely massive from this angle, although I think it's actually completely identical to the size of the original 32x32 baseplate. I still haven't seen any images of underneath the ramp, so they're either saving a great hidden feature for a special treat when we build it, or it's just completely nothing. The way the cavern section with the skeleton goes farther in the next wall section makes me wonder if it might actually wrap around to a special hideout under the ramp. I haven't really seen any evidence of how the ramp is built, so I keep thinking it could be either on a hinge or just sits loosely so you can easily access the section underneath. If it isn't built that way, that would at least be a great modification to make. Also, I'm really glad they did something with the section that holds the lower cannon. I looked over at my Eldorado Fortress this morning that's been sitting on my table since before this set was rumored. I thought some kids had taken some pieces off when I saw how flat that part is. I had to look up images of the set to verify it really is that plain. The new version is much improved, especially the rounder shape. I really couldn't be happier with this set unless they brought back molds that have been retired for a long time, like the palm trees.

That's really interesting. Not surprisingly, there are about as many takes on this as there are people even within that community. It would be even more interesting to see their responses after being shown all of the sets from the '90s in addition to the CMFs. Of course, Reddit is always going to over-represent a certain demographic. The site is heavily left-leaning, and more traditional natives probably don't visit the site in large numbers. It's a great critique pointing out that they seem to focus too much on the warriors. That's obviously what the classic pirates and castle themes have always been about, regardless of faction. But given the context, I think it would be more tactful to avoid the action contexts. The '90s theme was all about them "communing with nature," but there were a lot of weapons and face paint and nothing for them to hunt but snakes. It would be cool to see sets that incorporate more culture, like they said - the storytellers and children and so forth. I often see the argument that companies should "work with the community" to find something that's culturally appropriate. I don't think it's wrong to consult some of them, but that idea kind of makes the assumption that they're a homogeneous group whose views can be represented by some leaders in the community. That would be like asking Joe Biden if he thinks it's appropriate to depict Americans with guns. Half the country will say it's completely inappropriate because of the mass shootings. The other half sees guns as part of their identity. There are so many different tribes, there's no way Lego could ever afford the budget to represent everyone. That could be an argument to avoid the topic altogether, or it could be an argument to make the sets more generic so more people can identify with them. I guess given the current political climate, the best business decision is just to stay out of it completely. But it's just a real bummer for Lego fans. I wish we could just all get along - not be hateful to people, and also not assume people are being hateful because they're having some fun. I don't think people should have to have a PhD to play pretend with other cultures. It's just fun to imagine, even if we're completely ignorant like me. In my ideal world, people would just roll their eyes or laugh when they see someone like me pretending to be an Indian and completely failing because they know I'm not doing it out of any malice. I'm just an idiot having some fun.

How do you think it was botched? A quick Google search shows that a lot of those people prefer to be called American Indians. A 1999 study I found showed almost 50% preferred that term over Native Americans at that time. Yeah, it's an amalgamation of different tribes, but every faction across all Lego themes is an amalgamation. The castle sets contain elements that represent periods hundreds of years apart within the same set. The soldiers in the pirate themes are pretty ambiguous. Characters in City sets don't even represent people from a particular country, much less a region of a specific country. There's a lot of cultural differences among groups in the US, even among white people, and they don't make any distinction. No Lego faction is meant to represent any particular group of people. That's what makes them so great. They can be whatever you want them to be. The natives in the western sets were never shown to be in any type of conflict. What's the issue there? I don't see it. I'd be curious to see what those people think of the Lego sets. I've never actually seen anyone weigh in on it. I don't really see anyone pointing to any specific problems with those Lego themes. It seems like the idea is just that it's a taboo topic, or we're even just making up controversy where none ever existed. Sorry, I've gone way off topic. I guess my only point in saying this stuff is that I would really enjoy seeing those themes return after being on hiatus for so many years (apart from a few CMFs). I can see why Lego would want to shy away from potentially controversial topics, but those are among my favorite themes of all time. Lego is very much centered on western culture (although they've ventured into the Chinese market recently), and it's always refreshing to see more cultures represented to break up the monotony of all the American and European centered themes.

If they brought those two themes back, what changes do you think would make them more tactful?

That's really what makes the theme so great though. I never understood it as they were inferior. They were just a different culture, and it was great because it was so different. It's actually not much different from the makeshift housing the pirates created, and there's the whole idea of "This place is such a paradise, you can live in a hut and be comfortable." It seems like we're just automatically assuming that anyone who sees the difference in the cultures will immediately assume different means bad and inferior. I never inferred that when I was a kid. I don't disagree about the harm done to native people in the past, but I still don't really understand what makes the 1990s sets offensive. Maybe I'm still missing something because I just don't get it. I'll check out that book and see if it makes more sense to me after that. Thanks! No, only wishful thinking. But there's a rumor about a Majisto GWP that I believe came from the same person who leaked the info on this set. I sure would love to see it though! Of course, of all the buildings, that's probably the easiest one to recreate with pieces from 10320, but I'd still stockpile them. It's a great set.

Well, there's obviously a lot here that's just flown over my head. I'm not familiar with the idea of the "noble savage." So I have to apologize here because this is a topic I'm completely ignorant of. But I wonder if people are just bringing their adult baggage and jadedness and reading a lot more into this than Lego ever intended. I don't remember ever seeing anything in the magazines about the islanders being enlightened. It was just really cool to have another type of faction to contrast with the Europeans who were all so similar. I'm not saying you're wrong, of course. I'm just an innocent, ignorant bystander here wondering why we can't just enjoy our toys.

Dude, I envy you so much. The only large set I ever got as a kid was Fort Legoredo (because it was heavily clearanced). I spent so many hours looking at Enchanted Island in the catalogs when I was a kid. I still don't have it. I got a lot of enjoyment from looking at the pictures though, maybe even more than some people who owned it. My family was very low income. I remember standing in Walmart with my dad one day and Redbeard Runner was on clearance for something like 50% off. I asked him if we could get it. He really wanted to, but he didn't have the money to buy it.

Honestly, I don't really understand what's supposed to be so offensive about depicting native people. The way I understand it, the argument is that they're an amalgamation of multiple groups of people, especially the western sets. So by not making a distinction between one group and another, it's insensitive to those people. But isn't that every Lego theme ever? Someone pointed out in this thread that it's not really clear whether the bluecoats are French or English. They're abstract enough that you can make them whatever you want. (That's why I always prefer simpler torsos. They're more versatile and leave more up to the imagination.) There are definitely offensive depictions of native people in the media. Except for the red skin on the old homemaker set, I think Lego has always been very tactful. I'm sure someone is going to disagree with me on this, but I'd really like to hear a thought out explanation on how the Islanders were offensive because I don't understand it. Maybe there's something I'm overlooking. I'd love to see them return. I loved them so much when I was a kid. I got the Islander Catamaran in my easter basket when I was a kid. It's one of my fondest Lego memories.

You have a great eye for detail! It definitely makes sense that the dock piece would go in the center. It seems very versatile for other arrangements. Just taking a wild guess, what would you say is under the ramp? Maybe just a chest full of frogs in new colors. I bet there's a great feature in there they haven't revealed to us yet, just like they did with the extra forestmen section in 10305. I just can't imagine what it is though unless it's just something boring like a store room. Maybe the ramp opens up? I'm looking forward to seeing the designer video.

I'm starting to regret passing up PoBB. I probably would have bought it eventually, but it was sold out for at least six months then retired. I still have some pretty major gripes with that set though, and I wish they'd just do a proper release of a ship. I hate the island concept. It just looks like a big mess and it wastes a lot of the budget of the set. I also really hate the new flags, and I didn't really like any of the minifigures except the guy with the tattoos. The twins would have been fine if they didn't have the big mustaches and the modern bandanas. Redbeard would have been a lot better with brown epaulettes and the original skull. There's just so much about that set I would throw out, it makes me upset to think about paying full price for it. They really should have scrapped the entire island and released the ship only. I'm actually considering it now because I know I can fix those issues with extra parts and I'd love to have a ship to go with 10320. But it's even more expensive now, so I wish I could be confident they'll make another ship. But they probably won't.

I think it's a lot easier to focus on the negatives when we're waiting for a set to be released because we have no control over the images we see. Once we all have the set, we'll be able to make it however we want, and people will stop complaining as much.

In case anyone is interested, here's the text from the box flap on the original set: THE ADVENTURES OF THE LEGOLAND PIRATES OF THE SEA ELDORADO FORTRESS Sometime during the 18th century, a peaceful colony of settlers enjoying the island treasures they discovered, suddenly had their serenity interrupted. The invaders were those who called themselves the LEGOLAND® Pirates of the Sea! For years, the Pirates had been searching for the same buried treasures that the settlers were now claiming as their own. This, of course, disturbed the Pirates as they knew the doubloons (Spanish gold coins) the settlers found had belonged to their ancestors. Knowing that the Pirates would come looking for the gold, Governor Broadside, governor of the settler colony, sent a message to all of his men to meet him at the Eldorado Fortress. It was at the Fortress that the Governor made plans to protect the setlers' fortunes. Beneath the Fortress floor was a secret hideaway. It was there that the Governor decided the gold should be kept so that it would be safe from the Pirates. Part of his task was to unload the gold from the ship, the Caribbean Clipper, and move it to the Fortress. He wondered what adventures lay ahead. Use your imagination to continue The Adventures of the LEGOLAND® Pirates of the Sea!