Haddock51

To be honest, I don't think that this track will make a significant difference w.r.t. to our electric bill (which is already high ...)

As a matter of fact, I could write a book about all the experiences made during this project. The inclination for most ramp sections is 78 per mille (elevation of 30 cm and ramp length of 30 straight rails). Initial tests showed that this inclination requires four 9V engines for most of my "normal" trains, e.g. Horizon Express (extended), Santa Fe Superchief and most of my MOCs, except the long ones. (After a lot of testing, the Swedish Iron Ore Train with the Dm3 and 24 wagons ended up with 13 9V engines ...!) I don't know what kind of trains you are planning to run in your display. The longer and heavier they are, the more difficult it will become. This partially relates to the fact that these trains are in different parts of the track at the same time (ramp, leveled section, climbing spirale). The balance/unbalance of pull and push forces along the train changes all the time which requires an adequate distribution of the engines and appropiate speed at critical parts of your track. To build the U-curve sections has not been a major problem (the rail curves are inclined with 1x2 plates) except for the amount of work (in particular to mount protection fences with polycarbonate and rivets). The curves between level 50 and level 85 are indeed inclined (approx. 8 percent). I had to experiment a lot to get them right and stable. An 8 percent incline leads to substantial lateral tensions that need to be managed properly. The construction of the climbing spirales was probably one of the biggest challenges and required a lot of testing, in particular w.r.t. the design and construction material (they are built with 6 mm MDF board). The double-track approach requires a lot of space to keep the incline at max. 8 percent and the clearance at min. 12 cm. Let me know if you need more help. Hi Greg, The bad news is that - at least to my knowledge - there is no place to look for modifying the Lego Train Speed Controller, at least not they way they have been modified for this track. The easiest way of course would be to discuss and demonstrate this on site... So feel free to visit me in Sweden. I have listed some details under the chapter "Technical Data and Details". The most important issues are the replacement of the regulator (from LM317 to LM350 which provides up to 3A), the upgrade to 3A diodes and the outside heatsink to get controll of the temperature. It took me months to find out what needed to be done and what components that were required, in particular w.r.t. adequate heatsinks. On this subject, I got very good advice from alainneke. (Sometimes I wished I had paid more attention during some lessons in physics...). The replacement of the diodes, the mounting and connection of the outside heatsinks and the installation of the mini-fans was made by a professional. Keep also in mind that you will need some kind of Power Supply Unit that will supply enough power. I also would like to advise you to be careful running long and heavy trains with one (or few) 9V motors on standard Train Speed Regulators. To run long and heavy trains with one or few motors could result in permanent damage of the motor(s) and/or high temperatures that could damage your Speed Regulator(s). The "heatsink" in a standard Speed Regulator is simply not feasable for this kind of extra load! I guess several hundred hours.... To be honest, the cable installations almost "killed" me and put the project to stop several times

I just added a chapter on technical Data and details to my first entry which should give answers to most technical questions. There you can also read more about the boxes. The double-track high-level track along the walls are mounted on solid 6 mm glass which rest on solid consoles (check the last picture with the Horizon Express). The reason to use glass is quite simple - you can actually watch the trains better from floor level.

I have been testing now for almost ten days. There have been a number of derailing issues, particularly with long trains, both uphill (in the climbing spirales) and downhill. TheSwedish Iron Ore Train with the Dm3 locomotive includes 24 wagons and 13 9V engines, with a total weight of close to 11 kg. Due to its length, the train is always spread over various parts of the track, e.g. ramps, leveled sections and climbing spirales. This implies a constant change re. the balance/unbalance between pull and push powers. It is in fact very tricky to run this train - and also the extended Emerald Night. As I usually say when it comes to Lego Trains: length is beautiful - but difficult to manage ...

After many years of dreams, reflections, planning (starting Winter 2011/12), testing (starting fall 2013) and finally building (starting spring 2014), this project has finally crossed the finish line - probably one of the world's most extreme and most challenging layouts for Lego Train 9V! An indescribable feeling, great satisfaction and relief - and what a fantastic experience! First some introductory remarks: This is not a "usual" but rather a conceptual layout with analogue power supply and -management, without landscapes and buildings (except one train station). A particularly sophisticated construction with four themes: a one-track vertical climb, two double-track climbing spirales, a double-track high-level track 2.16 m above floor level and a rail yard. The layout is intended for Lego trains equipped with standard Lego 9V train engines. It is built with standard Lego 9V rails and points, some of which are modified. So are all four 9V Train Speed Regulators. With the help of points, the layout can be segmented into four sections (Loop A - D) which make it possible to run four trains simultaneously, independent of each other, with up to ten engines each. However, this requires more hands... To avoid/prevent spontaneous decoupling, all my trains are equipped with super magnets. I also would like to take this opportunity and thank all of you who have contributed with support, valuable advice, and encouragement during all these years. Without all this help, this project would have remained just a dream. And this is how it looks like: More pictures, facts and videos will be added to the first entry of this thread Addendum # 1: Technical Data and Details: Track lengths: Total track length (incl.sidings and dead-ends): approx. 173 m Total "Tour" length (from start to start): approx. 105 m Loop A (High-level track 1/High-speed track): approx. 32 m Loop B (High-level track 2): approx. 29 m Loop C (Climbing-wall from level 85 to traverse on level 175): approx. 46 m Loop D (Level 50 and level 85): approx. 21 m Rails: 949 straight, 263 curved and 37 modified (4, 8, 10 and 12 straight) Points: 13 standard points (whereof 3 are operated electrically) 6 crossover points (4) 11 half-curve points (1) Track Design Program: Track Designer Application (R) version 2.0 by Matthew D. Bates (Matt's LEGO (R) Train Depot) Electrics/Electronics: 1 Power Supply Unit VOLTCRAFT EP-925, 3-15 V(DC), max. 25A 4 modified Train Speed Regulators (4548) with LM350T regulators, 3A diodes, outside heatsinks (with a thermal resistance of 1.9 K/W), mini-fans and digital thermometers to measure temperatures inside the boxes 4 Control-boxes to operate 12 points electrically. The boxes are equipped with "memory-sticks" to memorize the position of each point since these are out of reach and sight. 12 PF Medium engines mounted on the electrically operated points 52 Power connections to rails 1 Control-box to selectively turn on/turn off 11 power connections Approximately 1000 m cable whereof approx. 850 m RK cable 1.5 square mm Märklin pins and sleeves 1 LED strand (4 m) with dimmer 1 IR-thermometer to measure heatsink temperatures Construction: 7 levels: Rail yard level (50 cm above floor level) Train station level (85) U-curve level 1 (115) U-curve level 2 (145) U-curve level 3 (175) Eaves level (195) Top-level (216) Max. gradient: 83 per thousand (The gradients are built in such a way that all trains can manage to get uphill and downhill with adhesion, i.e. without cogwheels). Min. clearance: approx. 12 cm Train shelves: Shelf system: Algot (IKEA) 15 train shelves type A (102x11x1.6 cm), 8 straight/shelf 27 train shelves type B (166x11x2 cm), 13 straight/shelf 12 train shelves type C (217x11x2 cm), 17 straight/shelf all train shelves are strengthened with 22x45 mm wood strips All in all 54 train shelves with a total length of 86 m (678 straight) and 108 railway buffers 2 "Trains-in-Transit" (TIT) Trolleys (Algot) Room dimensions: 5.5 x 7.3 m Occupied floor space (incl. train shelves): approx. 9 square m Construction materials: Wood (45x45 mm) and wood strips (22x42 mm) MDF boards (6 and 10 mm) Glass shelves (6 mm) Polycarbonate strips (3 mm) and rivets Cable conduits Steel cords (3 mm) with wire locks Perforated plates and angle irons Cable ditches and cabling towards cable terminal Cable terminal Power supply unit and cable terminal box Control center Addendum # 2: More pictures with some of my MOCs Glacier Express with Matterhorn in the background Trans Europ Express (TEE) "Rheingold" and TEE-VT 11.5 in alpine environment Swiss "Crocodile" (10183) with heavy RhB cargo transport in the steepest part of the entire track - a gradient of 83 permille! "Uppsalapendeln" in the midst of the Swiss Alps - imagine if this were for real .... Emerald Night on its way up to the mountains Track Cleaning Train at Knivsta Station - ready for new missions Track Maintenance Train on its way for a new mission Addendum #2A: Train shelves "Trains-in-Transit" (TIT) Trolleys with two Maersk and one TTX Train section(s) ready for transit Addendum #3: Videos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47CqLOQKGLM&t=10s

I just read this topic for the first time and I very much share the concerns about future (?) Lego trains. Having been a AFOL for Trains since 1992 (when Lego launched the 9V system), my collection basically covers all trains launched since then, including RC trains that are converted to 9V. Of course I am more than interested in expanding this collection with more trains over the years to come. Meanwhile, I will have to continue with own MOCs. I don't have any insight knowledge about the decision process within TLG. Personally, I would still toprank the Santa Fe Superchief, simply because of the beautiful design - and the trains legendary status. Now, there are many more examples of such legendary and world famous trains, not only from the past. A year ago, I travelled with the world famous Glacier Express from St. Moritz to Zermatt in Switzerland. This is by far the most beautiful train I have ever seen - and I have seen many. My first thought was: imagine if this one were available in Lego! The design of the coaches and the locomotive is pretty much straight forward. The look and colours are simply spectacular and awesome. I am sure this could be something equivalent to the SF, and certainly more successful than the HE (depending on pricing of course). Why not a basic Creator set with options to buy additional coaches?

Thank you so much again. The stickers for the Da and Dm3 locomotives as well as for the mail coaches are just outstanding and top professional! Your infomation is very comprehensive and useful so I am sure you will end up with more orders. I will certainly come back to you again in the future...

Yes there is, the so called "Rälsbuss" (Rail Bus) in yellow/orange from the 1950s: But this one is very difficult to build in lego due to the round front shape. A year ago, I built my first Swedish State Railway passenger train, the classic blue/red-coloured commuter train between Stockholm and Uppsala with one RC locomotive at each end (probably because the track at Stockholm Central Station is a dead-end track). The popular name for this train is "Uppasalapendeln". However, the train is hardly popular among many commuters because of all problems with delays etc. Actually, there was a local newspaper article earlier this year with a large picture of me together with my train, and the headline reads: "Lego Train always on time" ... Nota bene 1: Since these pictures were taken, I narrowed the gap between the coaches by moving the bogies one stud. Nota bene 2: Stealing MOC designs is ok for me, they are not subject to copyright laws ... Your appreciation is more important to me! Nota bene 3: My Lego Train Collection today includes 14 passenger trains (whereof 4 MOCs) and 21 freight trains (whereof 10 MOCs). Pictures of most of these trains will be posted together with my new 9V Extreme Display once it is finished, hopefully around New Year.

Please visit the following site: http://www.wnj.se/underleverantor/vva/ Västerås Vagnagentur (VVA) provides (amongst other) TrueType fonts that are created based on original drawings from Swedish Railway archives. These fonts are subject to copyright laws. They can be downloaded for personal use without permission. Click on "Teckensnitt" (fonts) and then click on file "Lokxy.ttf" which shows the font for "Loksiffror" (numbers for locomotives). Hope this will help.

The Lego room right now looks most like a workshop. But soon, this will become the Mekka of 9V Lego trains - at least in Sweden!

Thanks. I don't know the name of the font for the numbers but I will ask the guy who helped me with the stickers.

Thanks for your appreciation. It wasn't actually my idea to go public with all these pictures but a good friend of mine "told" me it was high time to do so... He's probably right because there will be no more train projects for quite some time, and this was a good time to wrap up my train projects so far this year. From now on, I will need all available time to continue with and finish the 9V Extreme Display, hopefully around New Year.

Over the past months, I have been working on the following train projects: Swedish Postal Coach: The original - Classic SJ Postal Coach with littera DF built in 1960: Swedish Postal Train with RC locomotive: Swedish Railway Da locomotives. The originals were built in the 1950s. Classic Swedish timber train with 3 Da locomotives and 16 wagons, carrying 102 logs: The original - three Da locomotives with timber wagons. Picture taken in 1985 outside Sandviken in mid Sweden. Trainwheel train with spare wheel pairs and diesel engine 60052: OCTAN fuel train with diesel engine 3677: The Rolling Road! Six train sections - each with a BNSF GP-38 equipped with two 9V engines and one 9V light - that will be assembled into one "tripple twelve" megatrain: 12 meters long, 12 kg heavy and 12 9V engines! Everything on wheels has been moved to 48 railway wagons - environmental friendly indeed ... What an increadible sight it will be to watch this monstertrain climbing its way up - and rush down! - the ramps in my new 9V Extreme display (still under construction): And finally some pictures of the revised Dm3, the legendary Queen of the Swedish Iron Ore Line. With some critical comments in mind, I decided to change the wheel structure resulting in only one pair of wheels in the front and in the back of each section: The original - picture taken at Narvik Station.

Why would a limitation of current to the tracks help preserve the motors? Whatever amount of current you supply, the 9V engines will not pick up more than approx. 350 mA each at maximum speed, i.e. at a voltage of 9V. In order to run my Swedish Iron Ore Train with the Dm3 locomotive and 24 loaded iron ore wagons (total weight approx. 10 kg), the train is equipped with ten 9V engines. As a consequence - and allowing to run four trains simultaneously - I invested in a PSU Voltcraft EP-925 (3-15V/DC,max 25A ) to get this train - and other long and heavy trains with multiple engines - upp the 8 percent grades in my new 9V Extreme track. I also modified the lego standard speed controllers with LM350T regulators, outside heatsinks, 3A diodes, minifans and temperature controls. The tests on the test track have been very successful. I have not experienced any slow down with my engines. However I don't run my trains continously for several hours. I started with lego trains 9V back in the early 90ies. Today, I have more than 30 trains and never experienced any problems with my 9V engines. I guess one of the reasons for 9V engine problems might be too much load per engine. Most of my trains are equipped with 2 - 4 engines.

That's an interesting idea. Some year ago, I participated in the Wacky and Weared Locomotive contest in this forum with my Track Maintenance and Cleaning Train which includes a vacuum-cleaner, a rail brush, a fan and a small wagon with a heavy load to pressure cotton wool pads against the track. This is of course more a kind of a gag but maybe I could replace the pads with a masonite block? This obviously creates a lot of friction and the train today includes three locomotives with two 9V engines each to cope with the 8 percent grades in my new track. When I presented this track cleaning wagon, somebody mentionned that the 9V engine wheels don't pick up power from the top of the track but rather from the metal edge on the inside. So any track cleaning device should be angled in order to achieve optimal track cleaning results. I guess this should be done also with a masonite board.

Thanks coreyg. Some years ago, I mentionned the issue of lubricants to a Lego colleague of mine and he warned me particularly about the risk of using aggressive lubricants that could damage Lego plastic. Unfortunately I can't remember if he ever gave me some advice. I also remember somebody mentionning sewing-machine oil to lubricate steel axles attached to wagon bogies mounted on heavy wagons and coaches, like the Santa Fe Superchief. Maybe this could also work on 9V engines. Has anybody tried? Right now I am working with setting up the 9V Extreme track, a gigantic project. Part of this project is to clean some 1600 tracks, including points. So once this project is finalized, all tracks will be almost as new, at least for some while...

I have a large stock of 9V motors (10153). Some of them are more than 20 years old. In order to extend lifetime and improve performance, I guess these motors should be maintained once a while. Part of this mantainance most likely is lubrication of the steel axles. What kind of lubricant do you use that is not aggressive against Lego plastic? I am also thinking of the steel wheels that pick up power from the track. These probably should be polished/cleaned in order to improve contact with the metal plates of the 9V tracks. What is the most feasable polish? Anything on the electrical part?

Yes, they actually do! Probably because of the fact that the track from which this train usually is leaving Stockholm Central Station for Uppsala is a "dead end" track. Re the positioning of the bogies I received the same comment from Selander in Sweden. It's fixed and it works. I will post new pictures next week. Thanks. By the way, Duq, you remember we argued about the design of the Dm3, the legendary Queen of the Swedish Iron Ore Line? You won. This is the latest and final design with rods on all three segments. All ten 9V engines of the 24 wagons Iron Ore Train are mounted on the wagons. 083.jpg

Thank you Ashi, I appreciate your comment and suggestion. I will make a test with a less flat version. Yes, your pictures shows a RC locomotive. There are also versions in black colour.

What do you mean by "crazy"?

This is my longest train: A Swedish Dm3 locomotive with 24 loaded iron ore wagons and ten (!) 9V engines (mounted on the wagons). All in all 6 meters long and a total weight of close to ten kg! You can also watch my extended Emerald Night with eight coaches and four 9V engines. In climbing spirales with close to 8 percent incline ..!

This is the latest creation in my Lego Train Collection: The Stockholm - Uppsala Commuter Train. With two RC locomotives (and circular side windows!) equipped with two 9V engines each. I really like the brown coloured classic rolling stock of the Swedish State Railways - but blue colour looks also great .... 805.jpg 804.jpg 803.jpg 802.jpg

Long yes, but I still get questions/comments from some swedish friends why the train is so short (!?!). The original Iron Ore Train back in the eighties used to have 65 wagons. To go "all in" would mean a Lego train with a length of almost 20 m, a weight of approximately 20 kg and a need for some 20-25 9V engines in order to cope with the grades .... In my future 9V Extreme track, space would not be the primary problem. But power supply certainly would be a major challenge - not to mention the budget for such a monster train ...

The purchase of the net stockings was certainly a new experience for me. I could almost guess what was going on in the mind of the shop clerk next to me when I widened the stockings by hand to check the size of the holes, but I didn't dare to tell her what this was all about (she wouldn't have believed me anyway ...). Just imagine what a scoop for the local newspaper: "SO CALLED AFOL EXPLORING NET STOCKINGS FOR LEGO TRAIN !?" And all this just a couple of days before the yearly Swebrick event in the same city ...

After further testing, I decided to remove the 9V engine from the midsection of the Dm3 and replace it with big wheels and rods. Now it looks even more authentic compared to its original. All ten (!) 9V engines are mounted on the iron ore wagons, two each on wagon # 1, # 5, # 9, # 13 and # 17. After several complaints ("you can´t run an iron ore train with empty wagons"), I decided to load all wagons (except # 20 which carries a 9V battery and cables for the tail lights) with "tons" of iron ore, i.e. thousands of round 1x1 plates .... To prevent spreading of these small plates on the floor in case of derailment (2m above ground floor ...), I had to find a solution to fix these loads. And the solution was: black net stockings in thin nylon! Amazing what kind of materials you end up using for a Lego build ... So this concludes the Dm3/Iron Ore Train project. I would like to thank all of you - and in particular alainneke, Selander and LeifSpangberg - for your valuable advice and contributions to this challenging project. The result speaks for itself. This train with a total length of 5,5 m, a total weight of 8,2 kg and ten 9V engines is most likely second to no other 9V trains, or? And finally, high time for video showtime!