Haddock51

The recent Lego Train Meeting 2013 in Eskilstuna/Sweden provided excellent opportunities to test some of the challenges for the planned 9V Extreme project, such as high speed, power supply/power management and action pictures with my new camera waggon (see also topic "High Speed Camera Waggon - the first action pictures" and "MOC: High Speed Camera Waggon"). Testing inclinations will be done later this year. The test track in summary: * Two high speed tracks with lengths of 14.5 and 15 meters. Each track powered with two 9V transformers in synch. Power connections each 5 m. All 90 degree curves slightly inclined with 1x2 plates (1-2-3-2-1). * Three train yards with 16 open side tracks (one entry) and 16 standard switches. * Two electrically operated crossover switches and two halfcurve switches. High speed: All trains ran smoothly all along the tracks with no loss of speed (except in the train yards where the loss of power was significant. Why?) Trains with double 9V engines were very fast - in particular the camera waggon! - but I expected the 4 engine powered Horizon Express and Santa Fe Express to be faster with two 9V transformers. Question: How much maximum power can you charge for 2 engine resp. 4 engine powered trains without risking to "burn up" the engines? The double engine powered camera waggon was charged at most with 2 transformers in synch at approx. 75 percent of maximum speed, resulting in very high speed. This should give approx. 1.5 Amps for two engines that require 300 mA. Is that "healthy"? If yes, how much more can you charge without risking to "burn them up"? If no, what is "healthy"? Power supply: 8 out of the 12 power connections were extended/soldered with loudspeaker cables (2x1.5 sq.mm) to a total length of approx. 4 meters each. I am still worried about the (potential) loss of power, particularly considering the fact that the Lego wires are so thin (my guess is 0.2-0.5 sq.mm). I am even more worried thinking about the need for power cables of up to 15 meters in my future 9V Extreme display. Question: If you want to skip the Lego wires completely, you can solder loudspeaker cables directly to the rails. But how can you connect such cables directly to the 9V transformers? Has anyone tried? Train yards: Building multiple track train yards with standard switches is no hit, not even with open tracks (one entry). The loss of track space is simply too big. And to pull large trains through 6 consecutive switches becomes too curvy - with a high risk for derailment. As a conclusion, I have decided to build my future train yards primarily with halfcurve switches even though this will require several modified straights (1/4, 1/2 and 3/4). Question: I am still puzzled by the loss of power when pulling trains through 6 consecutive switches - with double power connections close to the first switch?! Has anyone measured the loss of power when applying consecutive switches? Cable management: It became quite obvious that all cables - in particular stronger loudspeaker cables - must be properly placed (at designated spots) below the rails, and that all rails must be properly fixed to the surface (which at this occasion was not possible) in order to avoid bumps and lower the risk for derailments. This becomes even more obvious when operating trains at high speed. Trains: The extended Horizon Express is simply spectacular - from all angles ..... At this accasion, I also had the opportunity to use some of my (purchased) MOCs for the first time - after a Lego break of more than five years (!) - such as the Trans Europa Express (TEE) and the Matterhorn-Gotthard Bahn. It was also fun to see the Emerald Night - at relatively high speed - and the extended Maersk container train in action, not to mention the Santa Fe....! And finally: 9V and high speed - the ultimate Lego Train combination!

The recent Lego Train Meeting 2013 in Eskilstuna/Sweden provided an excellent opportunity to test my new camera waggon (see also topic "MOC: High Speed Camera Waggon"). The CW turned out to be very stable thanks to the low center of gravity (even in the narrow 90 degree curves which were slightly inclined) - and very fast! Two 9V engines powered by two 9V transformers in synch! The pictures are taken on a test display with double high speed tracks (length: 14.5 and 15 m). Time was too short to fix all cables properly which resulted in rather bumpy tracks, something that must be handled properly in the future 9V Extreme display. It needs quite some practice to operate two units in synch when filming trains from various angles at high speed. The test also showed that illumination/light needs to be optimized (which at this occasion fell short due to time limitation). But all in all - jolly good action ....

Good news! I just found a mini vacuum cleaner on ebay - it´s not a "micro" cleaner but I think it will work. I wil revert back with pictures as soon as the waggon is ready.

There are some mini vacuum cleaners on the market for PCs, mobile phones etc. I haven´t found one yet with feasable measures, close but ... Length and height are not the primary issues/challenges, but a maximum width of 8 studs truely is .... The basic idea is to mount a (battery driven) cleaner intact on a waggon - as close as possible to the rails. To rip it apart and house it inside lego would probably require a home made "micro vacuum cleaner" - something the guys in Switzerland did - with a Märklin-size train (!) And I can tell you, these rails looked clean!

Last year, I visited one of the largest model train sites in Switzerland (Chemins de Fer du Käserberg - not Lego!) with a total track length of approx. 2 km (!). In order to keep the tracks free of dust, they have developped a special vacuum cleaner waggon - a superb idea which worked perfectly. Having in mind my new train display with a total track length of 175 m with 4 different levels, I am considering building a vacuum cleaner waggon in Lego. Has anyone done a similar solution for Lego trains? Should be easier with Lego given the larger size.

Operating only with 9V, I extended the EN with another 3 coaches and put two 9V engines on the first coach. Works perfectly - and fast!

Two 9V engines on a waggon with a very low centre of gravity, operated on tracks with double 9V transformers in synch makes this a true high speed combination! Equipped with an action camera with HD, super wide angle and a "high speed" capacity of 60 pictures per second. Bottom line: High speed all the way!

What a beautiful bridge!!! Thanks Alainneke!

I just tested the camera waggon on a small display and the pictures are awesome. The only problem was the fact that the display was on a table close to a large window. The basic rule - avoid shooting pictures against windows - was confirmed. But other than that - no problem. The test also showed that the waggon manages the narrow 180 degree curves at "relatively"high speed. (Speed limits and derailing have to be tested on floor level - ). Since it was a doubletrack display, I could also take films when the waggon was meeting other trains at high speed - quite fascinating indeed! At the upcoming Train Meeting mid March in Sweden, I will set up a larger display with loops of 10 - 12 meters. And then speed wil be tested "to the limits" - including the 4 engine powered Horizon Express! High speed meeting high speed - I will keep you posted ...

A couple of weeks ago, I watched a train camera video on Youtube from Lego World 2012. On this video you can see a bridge construction (the bridge was actually on ground) that reminded of a suspension bridge - all built in Lego. When I visited Lego World 2013 in Copenhagen recently, I met the guy wo filmed the sequence. Unfortunately, the bridge doesn´t exist any longer, and they couldn´t find any pictures in their own archives. When it comes to the suspension concept, I am not so sure it has to be "for real" with ropes etc. The bridge could be strengthened beneath one way or another, even without Lego. One large bridge in Copenhagen was built with Lego Technique parts and turned out to be very stable. So I guess what I am looking for is more the design rather than the functionality.

Apparently somebody has made a real roller coaster, but not in 9V. I got this link from a swedish colleague. The whole construction is simply fantastic! Talking about "extreme"... http://www.horseshoe...aster/index.htm

The top level will be approx. 1 meter above ground level (table). I don´t know what you mean by "upside down"? Personally, I don´t think you can build a true roller coaster - including loops - with Lego Train 9V, even if you would use only one engine and start from a high level with very high speed. Huge challenges construction- and traction wise, not to mention the centrifugal forces ... Maybe somebody has tried this? The rails will be fixed on masonite ramps (width approx. 12 cm) which will obviously bend given the narrow radius and the inclination. I don´t know how much the lateral inclination of the rails will be. There is somewhere a limit where the moving unit - with low speed - starts to tip of the rail. The projects "9V Extreme I and II" are still in the planning phase. I first need to get my new hobbyroom ready later this spring. However I intend to set up some testing environment to find out what is actually possible. The reason why the inclination gets so steep is the need for space between the circles. Using only the Skyrunner would probably require less space and allow for lower inclinations, but I haven´t given up the idea of trying at least small and light trains with double engines. Uphill is one challenge, downhill probably an even bigger one as speed continously increases even at low power. In my previous display (see Brickshelf, DaRePo) I had inclinations - most of them straight - of approx. 8 percent. No problems to pull up a 4 engine powered Santa Fe with two 9V transformers in synch.

If you solder the connection cables directly to the rails, do you have to consider such "radio interference devices" for each connection?

I have seen this information before - and I have never purposely tried to short-circuit. The pamflet doesn´t say anything about the possible long term consequences/damages of such a short-circuit. Anyway, I am not planning to short-circuit just to verify what´s said in this piece of information. Again, I am not an electrician - but something tells me, there should be fuses somehow/somewhere in order to prevent longterm damages, certainly in a display with complex power supply solutions and a significant amount of power, at least relatively speaking.

This is an experimental MOC, equipped with 2 9V engines, designed for the Twin Spirals with close to 10 percent inclinations (see also under "9V Extreme II - Twin Spirals"). Tests later this year will show if it manages "all the way up to the top"....

Any information on how power supply was managed?

I have included some pictures in several topics - even at Swebrick - with the same tablecloth, so I don´t think her question was directly related to your feedback. I am not a linen enthusiast myself but I can admit it`s a very nice piece of work, and I have already told her ... You will most likely see more Lego pictures from me in the future with the same background... Yes it is. Tests will show ... The camera appears to be rather robust, primarily designed for tough outdoor activities like offroad-biking, downhill skiing etc. (including activities below waterlevel which will not be tested in this case...) The future high speed track will include inclined 90 degree curves which will allow to maintain high speed all along the track, hopefully .. Since it´s a double high speed track it will be exciting to shoot pictures when two trains pass each other at high speed. That´s when I certainly will need 60 pictures/second! The double track will also allow to run the camera waggon backwards to film an other train in parallel slightly behind. I expect to shoot some exciting action pictures. Previously, I worked with a different concept using an iPhone, but the centre of gravity was far too high and the waggon tended to tip already at relatively low speed. This construction with low placed metal plates feels very stable.

Has anyone tested - voluntarily or unvoluntarily - what happens if you by accident short-circuit the rails, e.g. by placing a metal tool across the rails?

Very nice pictures indeed. A solid piece of construction! However, given the fact that the bridge will be approx. 1 m above ground level, it cannot have a bridge-pillar. That´s why it has to be a suspension-bridge.

So there must be a fuse in the controller. Anyone knows where and what size/strength it has?

In addition to the large 9V Climbing Wall & High Speed Track project, I will set up a kind of experimental layout to push some of the 9V limits even more. This will consist of two spirals, each with 5 1/2 360 circles up to approx. 100 cm above ground level. The towers will be connected with a bridge at top level. Given the narrow curves and maintaining a height between the rail-levels of approx 20 cm, the inclination will be close to 10 percent and the circles rather inclined. For safety reasons, the track will be mounted on masonite. The whole track of approx. 26 meters will have 2x5 connection points and be operated with 2 9V transformers. Obviously, only small and light trains will be able to climb this track, if at all .... Hopefully, my own designed "Skyrunner" with 2 9V engines will make it ... (see picture below) I have been looking around for feasable bridges (length approx. 1 meter), even at Lego World 2013 in Copenhagen, but haven´t really found "the" bridge yet (most of the bridges in Copenhagen were simply too large and difficult to downsize). For obvious reasons it has to be a suspension-bridge with a span of approx. 1 meter. Any hints/pictures that could help?

I was actually referring to the Electric Train Contacts with Wire and 2x2x2/3 Brick (correct Peeron # 5306a) which has a fuse holder. Haven´t tried to open it. Never tried to short-circuit the rails in order to find out the fuse tolerance.

I don´t think there is a copyright on MOCs ... Try it and share your experience and your pictures! Thanks. My wife just asked me why nobody comments on the table-cloth in linen ... (it's not an MOD...)

One thing that hasn´t been adressed so far at all is the entire issue of fusing. If you increase the output from your transformers, you most likely will have to use stronger fuses (I don´t know the size of the fuses in the standard Lego connection wire, Peeron # 5306a). How have you solved this?

Construction of the new 9V track will not start until late autumn this year (I first need to get my new hobbyroom ready - and then I will enjoy Swedish summer at my summerplace as much as possible). With a lot of good advice and shared experiences from several Eurobricks colleagues, I feel that (almost) everything is now in place, including construction details and track equipment. So the only remaining thing left is - just get it done ... At the upcoming Lego Train Meeting in Sweden mid March, I will test this camera waggon in action - also at high speed!