Ankoku
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With @Innocity mentioning Akiyuki's Yellow version of the Catch & Spin module, it reminded me that it appeared at the Skærbæk Fan Weekend 2019. e.g. his actual module along with the man himself. So I decided to have a look to see if he made any improvements. Here you can see a change. He has added a dropped ball tray, to stop balls from dropping down into the gears. -
Will be cool if that is the base. Good work!
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GBC General Discussion
Ankoku replied to Jim's topic in LEGO Technic, Mindstorms, Model Team and Scale Modeling
Beat me to it. Not keen on the movement as I prefer things smooth, but it certainly is interesting and looks cool. -
May be, but I still don't think it makes any odds at all. I am not entirely sure what the bush is doing on the robot arm base.
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Quickly hacked this together, so apologise for it looking a bit meh. So yes, it is a different height to a bush, but to be honest, not by much. Less than a milometer. Have I ever seen Akiyuki use in a manner where the size difference made any odds? No. It certainly doesn't with the Ball Factory and it doesn't with the Invisible Lift. If it does with that robot, it would be a first for me seeing it. Looking at it though, I doubt it. It is way more about aesthetics than anything else. So as I said before, if you have them, go for it, use them. If you don't, I wouldn't go out of your way to get them, as it makes no odds. And this is from someone who goes out of his way to use black 3L pin, black 2L axles, black bushes and black axle pins. I use them for aesthetics and that is why I use the hubs, no actual practical reason.
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@waslos I have some of them and they offer no difference to a normal bush in this case. As far as I can tell, Akiyuki just likes using them because they are rare and unusual. I like how he used them with the Ball Factory for aesthetics, but I wouldn't advise going out of your way to get them.
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@9v system Mine works fine. I think it has only ever dropped a ball when I was fiddling with it. I always want to try and get the two bots to behave the same when idling, but one always jerks more than the other, which is annoying. I am guessing that Akiyuki may feel he wouldn't get enough sales for it to be worth doing instructions for the robot? e.g. you need EV3, 3rd cables and all sorts and less people are likely to be up for it. It will be interesting to see what he does with it, he seems to have a love for robot arms. At least his photos are getting slightly larger in size!
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No way to know, since you never see it. He most commonly uses this though: @Innocity You may want something like this: Air tanks are for smoothness. If the compressors aren't creating more air than is required over time, then it will do nothing. There is also this, but it only uses 4 compressors, but has lots of nice ideas which can be expanded upon: I believe both may post here. @HRU_Bricks certainly does. From what I remember, someone mentioned that Akiyuki powered his ball cleaner off a commercial compressor whilst testing it.
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Looks lighter than previous versions. Will be interesting to see if he designs his own compressor.
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Found another difference. This time it is the alignment of the box which lifts the ball. In the original version, you can see that the slots on it align front to back. In the instructions, it is from side to side: This may seem minor, but the change occurs during the ReBricker video. Whilst testing it, he find that the bottom antenna is catching on it. Problem is, he doesn't look into why this is the case. He just rotates the box and moves on. This leaves me wondering. Is the box at the wrong height in comparison to the original version? Between 2014 when Akiyuki created the Invisible Lift and 2015, where he displays it at an event, he never changes it. So he never had an issue where the antenna is snagging. Why does the reverse-engineered version snag? A 2015 event mod has Akiyuki adding a Technic Wedge Belt Wheel (Pulley) to the picker to make it sturdier. Much like the motor, I wonder if this is a quick and nasty hack. It is certainly ugly. I think he has to use this, as it allow the rotation of the axles.
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Used Sariel's Gear calculator to see what was going on with the 2 motors. http://gears.sariel.pl/ The ratio ends up being 1:3 That means the main transmission axle through the module is running at 660 RPM at full speed. 3 x 220 RPM of the XL motor. I could be wrong here, but as far as I can tell for the central axle, the only change in speed is between the motor and the first pair of gears it powers. Everything from that point on remains the same. The L motor, at full speed is 390 RPM and connects to that axle at that speed. e.g. it goes through 2 x 24 Tooth gears and 2 x 8 tooth gear, but in that order where the speed is never actually changed. (You can see how it is connected in the 2015 video as the camera passes by the module and then you see it from the side) Thus I don't understand how this is working. The only arrangement where this would work, is where the controller speed is much higher for the L motor, than it is for the XL motor. Better to just use an XL motor, a torque gear and an 8 tooth gear and connect it to the main transmission axle. This allows for the same ratio with the minimal amount of gears, whilst still retaining the torque functionality. Ultimately, for not crunching the machine on a jam, it is better to have the two XL motors next to each other and then go through a single torque gear. The down side of that is the further away you get from the motor, the more twist you get in the system. Which is why it is nice to have power coming from both ends.
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I think the grabbers not moving back smoothly is the weakness of the model. The constant battle for all who have it. Love the hats on the Catch & Spin module. The tyre differ from the original model, but if it is working for people, there is zero reason to remove them. That said, only have tyres on 3 sets out of 4 is weird. 2 out of 4 is the original, 4 out of 4 would make sense. 3 out of 4 just seems like a mistake. Also noticed this difference: He seems to be using this: Instead of a normal pin. I would like to say it is to provide support for the liftarms to the left, but that doesn't make much sense. Maybe just to make it easier to build? Considering it is impossible to build it as presented in the instructions, I think that is it. e.g. I had to take it apart to get those thin liftarms in (The Technic, Liftarm 1 x 11.5 Double Bent Thick get in the way). Just on the entry side, using that piece would make it a lot easier.
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Interestingly, the ReBricker version is for the most part correct for the bits mentioned earlier. e.g. He doesn't use the Technic, Axle and Pin Connector, he doesn't have a tyre on it either. That said he does use the Technic, Axle and Pin Connector for the axle runners. Ironically, this is the thing causing him issues with sticky runners. So I am starting to wonder whether the difference between those with and those without tyres, is down to whether they followed the ReBricker videos or went with BlakBirds instructions. It almost feels like Chinese whispers. Where each version of the instructions strays a little bit more from the original with changes and mods.
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Amazed I never noticed this before, but Akiyuki, at events, powers the invisible lift with 2 motors. Having looked through the entire thread, there have been a number of discussions about more than one motor. @plingboot powers his resigned hopper lifter separately. @FernandoQ used 2 XL motors when he displayed his, basically mirroring the entire left arrangement, mirrored on the right. Which means 4 x Torque gears which is kinda terrifying. Props for actually removing the errant tyres on the exit side of the module. He noted the use of 2 motors at the 2015 event in Japan. @Berthil mentions that the module will kill an XL motor in about 80hrs. So here, in 2015, you have Akiyuki displaying the module at an event. With an extra module on the right. Amazingly though, it is a L motor, not an XL one. Certainly looks like a bit of a hack job. It is still only using 1 torque gear, but the L motor is connected directly, which is even more scary. The bit which gets me, is that the XL runs at 220rpm and the L runs at 390rpm. Which suggest the gearing just happens to work out for him in this respect. Less attractive or not, I am certainly moving more towards the idea of using 2 motors, rather than 1. Not sure whether it would be 1XL and 1L or 2x XL. 2x XL seems wiser. @FernandoQ also mentions using a split axle instead of a whole one. I am hoping that by using @Berthil's axle tester is enough. If not, I will certainly consider that idea.
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Okay, so it seems that the returner for the differing grabber, is also different. Here is what the instructions show: Where as what appears in the Akiyuki original seems to be this: Where the original uses 2 x Technic, Liftarm 2 x 4 L-Shape Thick, the instructions have replaced this with 1 x Technic, Liftarm 1 x 4 Thin and also replaces 2 x Technic, Liftarm 1 x 3 Thick with 1x Technic, Axle and Pin Connector. The latter replacement is a pattern of behaviour also seen with Cup-to-Cup - Type 1. In that case, it made the module work less efficiently than the original. In this case, I don't think it makes much odds, but both parts are common and I think the original is a sturdier design choice. The Blue Technic, Axle Pin with Friction Ridges Lengthwise I am less sure about. I can only assume that is has to be there, since you can't see it and I can't imagine it would be left only supported by one side. In the video, all you can see is blackness and with no view from behind, you can't see what is being used there. My suspicion is that he has used a black one, which is rare. That said, he has used black bushes on occasions on this module, which are also fairly rare. The use of the Technic, Liftarm 2 x 4 L-Shape Thick doesn't make any difference to the function of the module, but does add redundant visual clutter. Again, I am not quite sure why these choices were made. It does reduce the part count, but the parts which are replaced are very common. In some respects more common than what it has been changed to. Width could be a reason, but this is negated by the use of the Technic, Axle and Pin Connector whose width caused problems with Cup-to-Cup. Here you can see the black hole. If you look closes, you can see the end of what looks like an axle. So it is either an axle or a black axle pin.
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@Berthil if I just built it, it would be straight up wrong, that is why. I am rendering the correct grabber, the grabber on the front, exit side. In your version, it has a tyre, in the instructions it has a tyre, in the Akiyuki version, it does not. Here are the instructions for the front of the Invisible Lift, where you point out that Akiyuki has a tyre on the left and without on the right. That is not what is shown in the instructions, it shows tyres on both sides: So yes, I could follow your advice and build it wrong, where there are blatant inconsistencies. Then spend time, like I have done already, taking it apart to correct it, or I could just avoid this issues in the first place, like I am doing here. To put it simply, on the Akiyuki original, you have tyres front and back on the entry side, no tyres front and back on the exit side. You can see this here: On your version, you have tyres on both front and back entry side, then tyres on the front, but not the back on the exit side. This makes the whole thing uneven and I have no idea why that would have been seen as a good thing worthy of straying from the original. As I mentioned before, much like with the Ball Factory, I am interested in building his version. I made the mistake of building the Ball Factory without questioning it and I have no desire to do that again. I will be building the original ball path around the front and I will most likely change it, like you, if it is fragile. That is a good and justified mod. Thus far, what I am seeing doesn't have any justified reason for being different.
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Okay, haven't had much time of late to work on it, but literally, the next page also had differences. This is what is in the instructions: This is the Akiyuki original: And this is a render of what I believe is the original layout: The biggest surprise is that the instructions gained a tyre.
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This is also different: As you can see, there is no axle in that bottom right part of the Technic, Liftarm 3 x 3 L-Shape Thin. You can also see that in the Akiyuki version, at the bottom, you have a Technic, Axle and Pin Connector Angled #1, not a Technic, Axle and Pin Connector Angled #6 - 90 degrees. It feels weird that extra support is added here, but removed from the spring mounted part.
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Another difference: In the instructions, it is this: Where as in the image from Akiyuki's website, it is 2 of these:
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Yes, but the commonality between the two of you, here, is the English language.
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Terminology wise, you do get tramcars, train cars, railroad cars etc. It is mainly American terminology. "The term "car" is commonly used by itself in American English when a rail context is implicit." Car just means wheeled vehicle, it becomes what we know as a road going car when you call it a motor car. Often the term car is used for both trains, trams, road cars etc. where it is purely defined by context. So in a way, his use of the term is more accurate than we appreciate. That said, when it comes to trains, cars usually doesn't relate to the locomotive part of a train, just the carriages. Obviously, these days, some carriages are powered too. And yes, what makes the Akiyuki system great, is that they are self powered and that power allows them to go vertically up, change direction, powers loaders etc. Without the need for an external control system.
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Starting to notice the differences now. With The ReBricker instructions, you have this: Which doesn't match the original here: Now in this case, Akiyuki is using an obscure piece, so I can see the reason for the change, but it means the rods sit at a different position, which made me wonder if it works as well. So I had a look at @Berthil's to see if he kept with it and it seems not. So I can only assume that this results in a better working version. Since I have the obscure piece, I will give it a shot and see if it works well or not. No idea why some of the black thin liftarms got changed to yellow.
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[GBC] Akiyuki Ball Factory
Ankoku replied to Berthil's topic in LEGO Technic, Mindstorms, Model Team and Scale Modeling
My comment about friction and hang cranking it was just a general comment for those building it. It helped me no end. In regards to the wedges, my comment relates to what he used. No idea what is in the v2 instructions. -
[GBC] Akiyuki Ball Factory
Ankoku replied to Berthil's topic in LEGO Technic, Mindstorms, Model Team and Scale Modeling
You had me for a moment with the wedges. I actually had to go back and check. Akiyuki doesn't use wedges, he uses 2 x Panel 1 x 1 x 1 Corner to left the bottom outside edge of the buckets. I will certainly give the wedges a try though. The bit that I find fascinating is that on mine, the ball unloader works differently at different speeds. I suspect this is down to warped axles. I need to check all the axles on the whole thing. For me, I wanted to get it corrected back to the original. Past that, I started to make some mods of my own. One of which was to remove universal joints. So I think it is good to mod any GBC to make it work well for you. Akiyuki himself admitted the module had issues. As with all of his modules, he made changes after the video we have of it. As @Berthil mentions, LEGO isn't the most consistent medium, so yours will work differently to his. Just like my Cup-to-Cup works differently, gear alignment wise, to Innocity's. The most important thing for me, is that people post their mods, like you have here. Which is why I added the mod section for The Sun page. What doesn't work for one person will work for another. When it comes to the Ball Factory, regardless of version, I think the most important thing you can do is hand crank it. Feel where the issues are. The smooth you can get it, however you do it, the better. For the minute, I am finishing off Invisible Lift, will most likely do Peanut. Along with those, I am going to redo the axles on Fork-to-Fork and see if I can post 3D visuals of the changes I did to that one, to get it back to the original version. Ball Factory v2 will get worked on once I have the new base constructed. So that will be a while yet. @9v system You might want to post a video of it running with balls, so people can see your changes in action. That would be helpful. Anyway, I loved your vid and I think these things are helpful. One thing worth remembering, is the amount of slack you get in gears, axle bending etc. You can be a tooth or two different and it still work out. It is the reason I ended up powering Catch & Release from both ends and why Akiyuki changed Cup-to-Cup. Having the Cup-to-Cup mechanism so far from the motor was not good news. The ultimate mission, especially for Berthil's version is to get the Ball Factory working reliably enough to be at events. It is the module which got mainstream attention, so it is nice for people to be able to see it up close. Anything which gets a person's own version of it to that point, is a good thing. -
The bin emptied. That makes me happy.