fhomess

WTF!

TINSTAAPP! ... or maybe TINSTAAMP?

Scum didn't really try to keep the town PR's alive, but were systematically taking us out. Night 3 throught 7 scum kills were Watcher, Blocker, Vig (failed), Vanilla, Protector. Personally, I'd have gone after Shadows earlier, but you can't argue too much with the selections besides Rufus. Maybe they could've pushed more for a town PR as a lynch, but I think that might've increased suspicion since most of those names (besides Shadows) were public for a large portion of the game.

I thought you were scum during the day thread which is why I voted for you. Our private conversation didn't change that. Possibly, but probably not. As has been pointed out, it wouldn't have mattered much anyway as I claimed to Scuba on Day 2. Yes.

When I first went there, I got two figs. After choosing one, the next voting option was the exact same two figs, just switched.

Oh, I hope not! The dead writeboard was plenty for me, thanks.

I have a lot of thoughts about this game, so here are a few of them. The first is that I'm fairly new to mafia, and this was my first town PR, so hopefully I learned a lot from all the mistakes I made. That said, I think there was also some misunderstanding of me that I'll get to later. Hah! I'm pretty sure you're the only townie who feels that I played a good game, and I include myself in that. At best I think one can say that I tried hard. I had some suspicions of you, but I never came close to vig-killing you as every time I thought about it I felt that I shouldn't target someone who had put so much effort into trying to look townie until late in the game when it wasn't clear anymore who else to go for. By then you had cleared yourself with Foog and AS. Scuba - Sadly, you were the only scum I ever really had strong suspicions of before you were lynched or killed. The whole CMP thing in private had me come close to submitting your name, but I didn't want to kill a town role cop without seeing how that turned out. Shadows - I nearly killed you the night you claimed to me because of so many obnoxious things you said in private to me. I went so far as to submit your name, then sleep on it, and decide I just couldn't risk killing you. The whole protector with a defense mechanism struck me as a bit ridiculous and I asked you repeatedly to elaborate with no response from you to that request (not even a "no"). The reason I stayed suspicious and didn't kill Foog for so long was that you persisted in those things. You also refused to present your case against Foog publicly, which made me think you were trying to get me to do the dirty work for you. You eventually explained this in private, and I'll concede that you were right, but your methods just didn't endear trust with me. Perhaps with someone else, they would have. Scouty - You really did claim to me that you didn't know dd was the target. I double checked my PM's after the decision was reached with Tammo to be sure I wasn't misreading something: I don't know how else you expected me to interpret that. Ultimately, it appears there wasn't a leak, but given Scuba's success (and Tammo in my previous game Jedi Temple), you can see why I was particularly concerned that there was. I stayed suspicious of MaskedBuilder because the scum team never tried to kill him and his role claim was conveniently impossible to really verify with the results he was getting. Rufus - You were essentially a coin flip kill between you, Foog, and Inky at the time. This decision was not helped by the fact that I was on vacation Aug4-Aug12 and was unable to bring my game notes with me. That vacation impacted my online time to post as well. Had I had more time to think it through, I should've killed Foog as it would have been a way to clear a couple of people who had PM'd me if he turned up scum. Besides Dannylonglegs on Night 1, Scouty and Rufus were the only targets of mine that were essentially made on my own. Given that I never had particularly strong suspicions of most of the scum team, As for the misunderstandings... I think a lot of people misunderstood some of my accusations and questions about other players as more strongly felt than they were. Yes, that was true of some of them, but at other times I would post or PM something more to get a feel for how others were thinking and see if I couldn't discern something interesting about it. The day 7 vote for Inky that nearly led to his lynch was one of those, and also intended as a conversation kickstarter. I didn't have a strong opinion on whether or not Inky went, but the way the voting went taught me some things. Especially after Foog and AS were revealed as scum. Finally, some suggestions regarding Bob's performance as a host: I understand that you care deeply about your game being played well by the players and that you want the game to have an even shot of each team winning. Set that up at the start of the game and then leave it be. WBD's kill of Foog should not have happened if you didn't include it at the start of the game. Same with MB's investigator role. It's almost like you wanted to give the town help when we weren't doing very well and I don't understand why you couldn't just let us lose if that's the direction we were heading. Maybe WBD got lucky in picking Foog, but I'd be really frustrated as scum if that had happened to my team. Also, the day thread isn't always an indication of activity. I'm a bit disappointed at being modkilled for inactivity given the amount of thought and effort I put into this game. In all, I hope I've learned a lot and can improve in my next game. I had fun despite my ineffectiveness, although that added some stress to it, too.

1 point each: moctown CarsonBrick Kit Fisto George G. Bricktooth

This was amazingly hard to vote for. alois - 2 points castor-troy - 1 point domino39 - 1 point cimddwc - 1 point

Bernd - 3 LegoJalex - 1 Cecilie - 1

Apologies to those I PM'd. I'm a bit jet-lagged from the travel simulator. Anyway... since we are essentially at a standstill for lynching Williams... I propose that people look forward a day. Let's say that Williams turns out town and by some act of Bob, no one is killed tonight. Who should we lynch tomorrow? Harper and Wheeler both have town results on them. It could very well be that either of them is scum and the godfather. I'm inclined to believe that Holloway is town because of his bus of Francis yesterday. Wheeler was investigated very late, so even if Wheeler didn't start out as a godfather, Wheeler could have inherited the investigative immunity by last night.

It may have been laughable a few days ago, but it's not anymore. Of the 6 of us, 3 have been investigated as town. Of the 3 that haven't, it's you, me, and our investigator Jones. These results have been made clear in public, so it shouldn't be a surprise. Despite my track record of non-success, I don't think anyone thinks that I'm not town at this point. I should be tonight's investigation target to be sure, but I'll probably be killed by the scum anyway if it's not you. Our investigator would be a reasonable choice, but there are reasons to believe that he's not. Both Harper and Wheeler have town investigation results on them, as does Holloway (who's also got yesterday's vote against Francis on his record). Do I think it's possible that one of the others isn't scum? Yes, but we really ought to test you with today's lynch because we can't guarantee another night result from Jones. If you have a case against one of the others, this is your last chance to have it heard and you've had plenty of time to formulate one by now. Vote: Allison Williams (Swils)

It seems that Ensign Holloway led us well in the charge on Lieutenant Francis... my compliments. At most there are two purists remaining, but there is at least one. Yesterday's vote against Wheeler was supported quickly by several people, and Wheeler is yet to be cleared. That said, Francis and Vanderbilt were both rather eager to cast votes against Wheeler that would have lynched Wheeler and rendered a single unvote useless if other considerations had not intervened. This seems to clear Wheeler. I'm curious if many of you agree with that idea or if you feel that Wheeler should still be near the top of our suspect list having not been investigated as town. If we don't think Wheeler should be our lynch target for today, and I'm not suggesting that I think she should... then we need to choose from among those of us who've been cleared by other means to this point.

I haven't been setting up wagons... I've been posting suggestions and others have been running with them. The intent has been to get some discussion going when everyone else is seemingly unwilling to do the same. The methods may be questionable, but in each case, I think we've had useful conversation come out of them. Hornby has asked a few times that I target Vanderbilt, a request I had ignored due to my own suspicions. Vote: Lieutenant Francis (AwesomeStar)

And on the 7th day, we rested. At least Day 6 was fun. I'm actually traveling, so I don't have as much time to throw out cockamamie ideas as normal.

Anyone who knew it would essentially be cleared at this point, as had they been scum, they would've shared it with their scummy teammates and chosen a different night kill target. Unvote: Lt Wheeler (Inconspicuous) I must say, that Lieutenant Wheeler points out that I've not led us anywhere good, and yet several people are bandwagoning on my very weak suggestion. I'm flabbergasted at the number of people who've proposed names other than Wheeler's to me in private, yet refuse to propose those same names in public. Are you all just trying to get me to vig kill those players instead of putting your own neck on the line with a lynch candidate? That said, Vanderbilt's vote pattern is decidedly fishy today. Why did you vote only once the vote made it beyond 6, yet you were involved in the conversation well before then without voting. Not much appears to have changed between your non-voting contributions and your vote. Certainly no comment from Wheeler.

I went with my own read on one of the remaining players who wasn't among my list of folks I trusted. I'll go ahead and throw out vote: Lieutenant Michelle Wheeler (Inconspicuous). Wheeler's been someone I've had some issue with in the past, but she has to this point flown a bit below the top of my lists. At this point, I don't see a large difference between some of the unconfirmed members of the ship, so she gets my vote. She has the unfortunate issue of surviving the night she was supposed to be blocked.

Crap... I was doing this without my notes and forgot the investigator result on Holloway coming up town. So... Unvote: Ensign Robert Holloway (Waterbrick Down) Vote: Ensign Allison Williams (swils) Instead, I'm willing to go ahead and test Holloway's theory by voting for his target. I don't want to go against the investigator result at this point and I'm not yet sold on Hornby as I said above. If we follow his theory that Williams is the only non-confirmed player who hasn't been blocked, then there's a good chance he's the killer.

I'm going to go ahead and Vote: Ensign Robert Holloway (Waterbrick Down). In my mind Holloway has done everything he can to appear townie. He's worked hard to share information, he's done his fair share of things to try to make theories that appear town and look like they're helping. That said, I think we need to lynch someone and when I come back to everything, the simplest solution is that there's no conversion, the scum knew that Rockford was the target on night 4, and they failed to kill me because they thought the protection had been switched. Maybe Holloway himself was getting ready to pull the trigger. I encourage those of you on the fence to vote or switch your votes to Holloway so that we can have something productive happen today in terms of moving our knowledge forward.

Yes. Ah yes, that's what he claied as reported to me by McAndrews. I wouldn't expect a third faction to be nameless as "Unknown". One thing I will say is that the eagerness to lynch a claimed protector is a bit disturbing to me. Those of you voting for Hornby don't think we should investigate him first? We still have ways to validate his claim, no?

Why are you so convinced that Wright was neutral. He was reported as "Unknown". Could this not have been a jailkeeper and Wright was actually town?

Ok, I went back through some of the town core conversations and here's what I found. Wright (CMP) had claimed investigator and the results that we had been given from him were a town investigation result on Lieutenant Jones on night 1. Wright publicly claimed to have been blocked on night 2, when he tried to investigate Willis (KOTZ) and that seems to be what led to his claim being shared with McAndrews. Wright was killed on night 3, and his claim as a neutral cop was reported to me by McAndrews (Tammo) before Gordon (Scuba) made any comment on it in the group discussion. Jones investigator claim was reported to the same group by McAndrews early on Day 4 and the first thing that Gordon tried to do was to tell us that Jones was Wright's neutral partner trying to merge with the rest of the scum team. If that was intended as a bus of a teammate, then it was way too early, IMO. Based on that, I don't think Jones is scum even though his claim as a newly minted investigator on night 3 seems a bit out there. Gordon wasn't on any of the town core's radar at that point in time, so I don't see why he would've tried to distance himself from Jones at that point in time if he was on the same scum team. In the same conversation, Gordon commented on the fact that he was blocked when trying to role cop Hornby by trying to point out that York was scum. So I'm crossing York off my scum list for that reason. If you review Day 4, you'll see that York was in an argument with both Gordon and Rockford. York is probably not scum. This all came before Gordon was stumped. If we continue along with the idea that Gordon claimed to have been blocked the night he role copped Hornby, then we have several options: 1. Gordon was blocked by the town blocker 2. Gordon was blocked by the scum blocker 3. Gordon was lying Option 1: McAndrews was the town blocker and has consistently said he blocked Rockford that night, so option 1 is invalidated. Option 2: Gordon proved to be scum, so would not have been blocked by his teammate. Option 3: This is the only option that makes any sense. What are the possibilities if Gordon lied: 1. Gordon didn't want to out his teammate 2. Gordon didn't want us to know the town protector's identity 3. Gordon role copped someone else entirely and didn't want to be caught lying if he got Hornby's role wrong I don't know what Gordon actually did (does anyone here know?), but Options 2 and 3 imply that Hornby is town. Option 1: Only makes sense if interpreted along with option 3. We can speculate on why Gordon didn't just make something up in this case. Option 2: Unlikely that Hornby would've survived night 4. I just don't get why scum would've let him live through that night or last night. He's a better target than myself, and Jones was left unprotected as Hornby claims to have protected me. Option 3: Possible Looking at all the scenarios for Night 4, it's hard for me to see how the scum kill doesn't go through except in one of two situations: 1. Hornby is the town protector 2. The scum converted someone (or tried to and failed) Note that those aren't mutually exclusive.

Note that those on Holloway (WBD)'s cleared list are a combination of folks who have been cleared by investigation and those who've been cleared by Holloway's post analysis method. Here are those that knew that Rockford was the vig target the night he did not die (Night 4), with the only new identity that I don't believe the scum already had being Hornby's protector claim. I think it's safe to assume that one of us four is scum given that Rockford survived the night. Myself - Vig - I admit it's possible I'm scum, but then all the other kills that have happened would have to be an SK. At this point, if one of the killers is an SK, then they're as good as scum as they clearly have made no effort to help the town. There can be no vig if I'm scum, as that person would have claimed to someone by now and we would've been able to validate their and my claim. If I was scum, it's likely that at least one of the SK or scum kills would have gone through on night 4. I am not scum or an SK. Holloway (WBD) - Vanilla - Holloway and I began discussion towards the end of Day 4. Since then, much of our discussion has circled around his post analysis method and what it represented. Yesterday I presented a case against him based on my reading of the Night 4 results. McAndrews (Tammo) came up with his alternate case after I presented mine and it indeed looked more likely. That doesn't rule out my case. Jones (MB) - Investigator - The claim here is that Jones inherited the investigator role on Night 3, which is the night I killed Wright (CMP) based on Gordon's lies. Gordon knew of this claim prior to being stumped and then lynched, so the scum have known of this information since then. Hornby (Shadows) - Protector - The claim here came to me after I claimed Vig publicly. There are scenarios in which I believe Hornby could have manipulated the results of night 4, but I wouldn't see the point of it. To me, Hornby is likely town based on that. I had not shared his identity with the others on this list, but now that he's outed himself, there's no point to hide it anymore. I confess that Hornby was highly suspicious to me prior to that night. I think it's reasonable to lynch one of these four. McAndrews (Tammo) felt that if last night's investigation result came back as town on Holloway, then we ought to lynch Jones. It did. Hornby rightly points out that lynching Jones is more risky for town. I tend to agree with both of those assessments, so I'm open to either.

I think we should hear these theories. Part of our problem is that we're not getting anywhere with our theories all working as individuals. I'm not sure how much information town has at this point that scum doesn't have. I agree with the latter part of this, but I think we're now at a point where the first half is becoming less important. We need to take a few risks to narrow this down as we're running

Wow, that was quite a bad night. I most certainly did not target McAndrews, but targeted Walters based on some intelligence that McAndrews had given me that did not match what Walters had said to me. It appears that we were quite mistaken on those accounts.