fhomess

I think the fact that we have a third faction calling themselves the Secret Agents shouldn't come as a total surprise. After all, there were 32 of us at the beginning and that alone should have meant that more than just one splinter faction was a distinct possibility, even if it wouldn't have been my first inclination. As I often tell my students, always be prepared for the unexpected. Given the nature of the night kills being restricted to just the black and white ninja, with the white ninja being the vigilante, suggests to me that either the mutineers or the secret agents do not have a night kill. Or at least, they haven't had one to this point. I can't imagine they would've neglected to use it for three nights in a row... unless they had to convert first. My money would be on the mutineers doing the killing so far. The fact that Minoru was a blocker for the secret agents suggests to me that they probably aren't on our side, and might lead some credence to the notion that eventually the secret agents and the mutineers will join forces. I wouldn't be surprised if the secret agents have more ways to sow confusion among us, though. In the end, I'm not sure how much it matters that there are two renegade factions amongst our ranks. It might make their combined numbers slightly larger, but it also means that each faction is probably a little less powerful on their own than a single, large faction might be. I wouldn't hesitate to vote a member of either faction to be put into the dragon's mouth. If we get to a point where we have to choose between the two, then I'm sure it'll be determined by which seems more dangerous to our cause based on the information we have at the time. However, our goal is to rid ourselves of the Mutineers specifically, so I would think a secret agent would have to be considered quite a bit more dangerous to our cause than a Mutineer to earn that vote. Either way, we still have to systematically root out the traitors in our midst regardless of the form of their treachery. There is a mention of win conditions in the rules for those aligned with other parties, although what those conditions are isn't stated. In the absence of information suggesting the secret agents are Yakuza friendly, I think it's only reasonable to consider them dangerous.

Vote: Hiroki (Etzel) This seems like the lowest risk gamble we've taken so far.

Lol. I'm sure you do, as would any of us in your shoes! But really, nothing you've said makes it a reasonable approach to do anything other than test the investigator's claim, and Akira's along with it. I wouldn't suspect the investigator to have any incentive to lie about you - you yourself said you weren't all that active - so the investigator only has something to lose. Akira's the same way. The only real hope for you, then, would've been that the investigator got a false result on you, but without someone stepping up to say they have an action that might indicate as such, it doesn't appear that anyone is messing with your result. Naturally, that really only leaves the sanity of the investigator in question, and the only way to test that is to definitively answer the question as to your allegiance with a lynch.

Wow, what a lot of new information to digest! I'm sorry to see we lost two devoted Yakuza. Poor Yoshiko was just trying to find a safe place to hide! It's also nice to see that the Goon finding on Isamu was most likely correct! Well, it's possible the black ninja could be either a mutineer or a special agent, but ultimately it doesn't really matter much. They've all got to go! Actually, if there are two scum teams and they're both small, I'd think that plays to our advantage as they have less ability to coordinate with each other. In either case, it seems like we have a good lead with Hiroki. I agree it's unlikely Hiroki would have been framed, and while possible, the easiest way to find out would be to cast our votes for him and see what the dragon snot says.

Ah, thanks! I didn't realize multiquote would work across threads.

I'll throw down my vote for Minoru, too. Vote: Minoru (Volcanicpanik) Assuming that the Goon finding on Isamu is accurate, Minoru is a more dangerous person to leave alive tonight. Our vig can spend their time going after Isamu or Tamiko, who I've noticed has been fairly quiet since the failed Jester claim fizzled out.

Minor forum question... how is everyone quoting the old day threads? I can't reply to locked threads, so I have to build the quote manually, but other people are quoting with the full date and time as if they can quote easily. Is that because you're moderators or are you adding all that in manually?

Wow. That was a really bad night for us. Losing 3 devoted Yakuza for a variety of reasons isn't something we can afford to have happen. Not only that, but we lost a tracker AND a blocker. With the large number of us, I wouldn't be too surprised if there were different types of blockers on the same team, but two blockers with the same MO of a katana seems pretty unlikely. Day 1 Votes: Minoru voted fairly early for Yasu. Not so early as to aid a bandwagon if it could still be avoided, but early enough that it didn't appear as though he was trying his best to avoid that vote. As Shizuko has already pointed out, his lack of interest in lynching Yasu didn't develop until it was pretty clear that Yasu was not going to survive the day. Minoru's comment to Yasu about the scum putting "one of 'em fancy blockers on you" strikes me as rather ironic coming from a blocker. It's like in the movies where the bad guys joke with each other about what they're going to do to each other, only to do it to the good guy. Here, he votes for a someone who seems less scummy, just unhelpful. Despite the fact that many of us were wrong on Inchirou, this seems far less helpful. You know, Renegade is defined as a deserter by Mirriam-Webster, among other things. Not a good choice.

Not when it relates to people sharing role info without due cause to trust the person they're sharing it with. That's the type of thing we ought to be confused by, or possibly more accurately, disturbed by. You know, an ex-spy and a martial arts expert...

Aye... I'm very confused by the recent happenings. Let me see if I understand: Tadao blocked Norio. Tadao told Akira he's a blocker with no real reason to trust Akira. Akira told Ichirou that Akio was a blocker with no real reason to trust Ichirou. Ichirou tried to withold this information from all of us until it was clear he was going to be lynched after his role claim didn't work. I'm inclined to think you're all scum or reckless Yakuza. The only one looking ok to me here is Norio. I think our vig has several prime candidates for tonight, as Tamiko certainly seems a worthy target as well.

Yes, that's a good point, I had forgotten about the possibility of a protector. That would add another possibility, and my scenarios above acknowledged that it's not a guarantee that either of them are anything but Yakuza. I think this is definitely worth consideration, but why are you more interested in saving yourself than the blocker if the blocker is someone you don't trust? Your blocker claims to have targeted Norio, and the other blocker claims to have targeted Nobuo. The fact that we don't have a counterclaim by either of them leads me to believe that they're telling the truth about who they targeted. If I'm reading everything correctly, we know the identity of the blocker that targeted Nobuo, but not the one that targeted Norio. Keeping the identity to yourself is suspicious. Nobuo has made it sound like he's already working with you, since he knew of your existence. If that's the case, why haven't the two of you conspired better to let us all know which of the blockers is scum? Perhaps this makes sense for tonight, but I'm not sure how it makes sense for last night.

Vote: Ichirou (Tamamono) Perhaps I misread earlier, but why, Ichirou, if you have found the scum blocker, have you not accused this person publicly? Or was that merely because you heard from Norio that the town blocker told him he blocked him. That also seems strange, as why would the town blocker trust Norio enough to tell him he had done the blocking. If I were the town blocker, I'd be more inclined to tell Norio who I was if I hadn't blocked him, as the other blocker is most likely scum and not likely to block a teammate. Under your scenario, the scum blocker blocked Nobuo and the town blocker blocked Norio, but the town blocker trusted Norio enough to claim to him. That seems very odd. For these reasons, you earn my vote. I'd like to pursue some thinking along the lines of these blocks a little further, though. This family feud began with 32 of us, yet there was only one person killed last night. I was expecting at least two. There are a few possible people who would be likely able to kill someone: 1. The scum killer 2. A vigilante 3. A serial killer While I wouldn't expect the vigilante necessarily to act on night one, I highly suspect that we have a SK among us given how many of us there are. Given that we have two people who were blocked last night, I would think that tonight's actions ought to focus on those two people. While a SK isn't guaranteed, I still think it's likely. No one, including myself, thought earlier in the day that perhaps the night kill was an SK rather than a scum killer. What if the SK took out Lloyd Jr, (or even a reckless vigilante), and the scum killer was blocked? Even if the scum killer took out Lloyd Jr, the SK would have targetted someone if there is one among us. That said, it wouldn't surprise me at all if one of Norio or Nobuo was an SK or the scum killer himself. At the least, these two seem like dangerous candidates to leave uninvestigated.

Those scummy mutineers! Taking out Lloyd Jr was a low blow. I am quite pleased to see that Yasu was indeed a mutineer, though. Ichirou beat me to it, but I was very much thinking that the subtle attempts to cast doubt into Emi's accusation, even before Yasu had a chance to speak up and defend herself, would be the most likely scum buddies. I would not be surprised at all if one of them was in there. I also think the fact that Ichirou was called out by Yasu almost certainly clears Ichirou of being one of Yasu's fellow mutineers. I suppose we could verify Ichirou, but that seems like a fairly safe bet. I also notice that Maniko hasn't really changed anything in her approach today.

Welcome, KDM! Thanks! It's a bit grating to me but a little for flavor would be fine. It reminded me a little of this article: Lin

Now that I have had some time to think things through and review all that has been said, it seems pretty clear to me that we cannot keep Yasu around. Either she is scum or she is a dividing force in our family. She cannot be trusted with what information she might learn would she become a part of a core group of us dedicated to rooting out the mutineers. The best case scenario appears to be one that merely adds confusion to our cause. I've taken some time to review all that's gone on today and there are some situations and statements that are jumping out at me as potential red flags, but nothing more than that. I had thought about voting for someone other than Yasu merely to get conversation going on them, but having had some time to think about it makes me feel like it may be better to wait and see how those suspicsions play out tomorrow. None of them are even close to the issues that Yasu causes us. As I sometimes tell my students, never punch a potential friend if a known enemy is present. Yasu, regardless of your affiliation with the mutineers, you are not a friend of the Family. Vote: Yasu (TheBoyWonder)

I'm really frustrated that Yasu hasn't been able to come up with a better defense here. I'm tired from going through all that's been said and will come to a conclusion on a vote after some rest. I really don't want to lose our role cop if that's what Yasu really is, but I may not mourn Yasu's loss too much given what she's shown today anyway. Yasu has enough votes for now, so after my rest I'll come back and review again to see if there's anyone else worth pointing the finger at even if it only is to help move us forward in the days to come.

This makes a lot of sense to me except the last part about blocking her would contradict the part about staying away from her. A watcher on her would probably be excessive, but I doubt scum would take the chance.

I think you're correct that Yasu hasn't done a lot to convince us she's not scum based on her behavior, but I would think that an early role claim should be worth an investigation and one night spared from the lynch. I tend to agree that she probably was the leading lynch candidate in a lot of minds before the role claim, and with just one unvote available, I can appreciate to some extent the fact that I have now been given more (potentially false) information from which to decide if I want to risk my vote on her. I'll assume for now that her role claim is accurate as a false role claim could be proven false even faster. Then the question is just if she's scum or not. If we let her live, the worst case scenario is that she's scum and investigated as not-scum. That could be because of a faulty investigator or a framer, but that's the worst case scenario. In that scenario, she would invariably be forced to help piece together a pro-Yakuza core as she would have to reveal accurate results of her night action. I would think that by this point, the Yakuza core that develops would be rather reluctant to let her in on many of their real secrets. The next-worst case scenario is that she's not scum but investigated as scum or killed outright. The kill would be pretty bad for us, but it would accomplish the same as a lynch today. If she's scum and investigated as scum, we'll know what to do tomorrow. I'm willing to live with these options and look at someone else. I'm not keen on risking a role cop at this point.

Yasu's defense would look a lot better if it was a bit more involved. That said, I'm hesitant to say that I think she's certainly scum for having terse unhelpful responses. By this point, one almost wonders why her fellow mutineers haven't given her a stronger response. It doesn't appear that we have anyone else who's expressed themselves so curiously in a way that's not related to Yasu's situation. To me, the Emi-Yasu situation comes down to two things: 1. They've both true Yakuza but Yasu isn't able to convey that well. 2. Yasu is scum At this point, I think this whole coversation will be useful to look back on in the future. There have already been a few people speaking up in defense of Yasu and some who've been pretty quick to accuse.

It seems pretty clear that Yasu has made a significant mistake regardless of whether or not she is a mutineer. That said, I'm not surprised by an overly paranoid reaction given the original statement was already overly paranoid. Perhaps this is a good lesson for all of us. As I remind my students, a calm and clear mind can overcome a stronger foe who lacks clarity of thought. My guess is that if Yasu is not a mutineer, the mutineers are cheering at their good fortune. If Yasu is, they're probably scrambling. At this point, I'm still very much on the fence on Yasu, but I'm fascinated by the discussion surrounding her behavior. On the matter of the 5 genies, I'm not prepared to read too much into it until we have more to go on.

Chances may be small, but there as long as their are traitors among us, we have a chance of choosing the traitorious. Perhaps our family is learning the ways of self control. A well placed punch can be far more effective than many jabs at random. My students are always struggling to learn to be patient and wait for their opening. In time, it will reveal itself if we probe for weakness. Punch and counterpunch.

Lynching is very uncivilized, but if this is the way Grandfather wants it, I will be obedient. Mutineers, you are most unwelcome here.

Setsuku is here and ready.

This is going to devolve into a Japanese game show before we know it!

I'd like to sign up. 1) I was in Witchbreed Mafia School and the Curse of IMHOTEP. 2) I am generally on daily and should be able to contribute as needed. 3) I know a little bit about Japanese feudalism and their involvement in WWII, but nothing more recent in great detail.