Mr Hobbles

I don't have the LED lights yet, with the motors, the voltage on the DC lines varies with how fast the motors are instructed to be going. The other 4 wires do nothing other than power the AutoID (for simple motors, not the case for the Boost motor). They're not always switched on at 9v. I don't believe in PUP there is any way for there to be a direct connection to the battery, as the ports are switched on/off activated by the firmware and triggered by either commands from the remote or over bluetooth. So unlike PF you can't just plug a motor into a battery pack and turn it on. See this video Jorge did on getting old 9v/PF stuff to work with Boost (which is identical): The rest of his channel has lots of other newer videos on Powered Up: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCURXu8zPd8XQirxT9HkAd1g/videos

"Simple" hardware (WeDo 2.0 Medium Motor, Train Motor, and presumably the LED lights) use a resistor for the AutoID. Smarter hardware (Sensors, Boost Interactive Motor) have an inbuilt PCB that does a more complex handshake to set up the AutoID. I don't know how this works. WeDo 2.0 Medium Motor - AutoID 0x01, 2k2 resistor between pins 3 and 5, short pins 3 and 6. Train Motor - AutoID 0x02, short pins 4 and 5, and short pins 3 and 6. When buttons are pressed on a paired remote control, the hub drives the motors differently depending on the AutoID. Up/Down buttons with AutoID 0x01 devices have bang-bang on/off style operation. With AutoID 0x02 it has train style speed increase/decrease operation. Theoretically, to convert the extension cable between the two modes, you could have a small switch that switches the pin connections around. But for least effort on Legos side, I'd argue that a AutoID 0x02 cable increase/decrease operation (light brightness, motor speed, full "speed" could even power a PF IR receiver) serves more use cases than 0x01 bang-bang operation (RC cars only?)

I think my absolute #1 item is a PUP->PF/9v conversion cable. Exactly the same as the existing PF extension/conversion cable, just chop off one end, and stick a PUP connector on it. Give it AutoID of 0x02 (same as train motor) so attached PF devices function the same.

https://shop.lego.com/en-GB/LEGO-Powered-Up-LED-Light-88005 LED lights now available in UK at £8.99 price point. :)

Yay, glad to you got it working. :) I wonder if the firmware update makes it less fiddly...my timing has never been that great and its seemed easier, or maybe I was just totally coincidental. Either way as you say, once paired, they all just connect. Re. Above, yes, 100% correct! They do remember their pairings via their unique device ids. In the latest Lego Ambassador Network FAQ they call them "networks". There can be an unlimited number of those independent networks in the same room as much as RF interference allows. You just need some way of remembering which controllers are paired with which hubs as the colors won't be enough to go on (colored tiles?)

I've managed to acquire 7 sets of PUP controllers, hubs, and motors on eBay, with each set costing £40-45. :) Lego in general seems to go up in cost over time, so it doesn't surprise me that the new system would be a bit more expensive. You're right, the new lights are $3.50 more than the old lights in the US. By itself, that's not too outrageous, but we'll see what the rest go for in January (When TLG has said they'll go on sale individually). Regarding your pairing woes, I hope Lego can help, but sadly I suspect you might be SOL until you can upgrade your firmware. I hope you find some way to do so.

The dream is to have a house like the home alone toy shop where everything is moving ?

Just a heads up, 88005 Powered UP LED Lights are now up and available for purchase on the US Shop@Home store at the $9.99 price point. :) This means UK is likely not far behind. \o/

Excite! I've wanted those two for ages!

I've no idea about 3D printed ones, but the real ones are on BrickLink for between £80-100, if you can spend a bit more. Amazon is about the worst place for second hand and discontinued Lego. :)

Not as yet, no. The 6399 motor uses the old 9v power cables and plugs. Powered UP uses a new type, and there are no adapter cables available (yet). You could however use the previous Power Functions system with the PF extension cable, which provides a 9v compatible plug.

I have indeed. :) EDIT: I've gone with PUP as it rolls off the tongue easier to say "pup" as in a small dog, than it is to say "pee-you", or, dare I say it, "poo"...

So I've managed to acquire all the Powered Up hubs and train motors I want to convert my trains. Mainly the Metroliner, Maersk train, Horizon Express, and Emerald Night. Metroliner, Maersk, Horizon - trivial to convert, and the Maersk train has the added bonus of having room for a downwards facing color sensor with no modification whatsoever! The Emerald Night, however, has a problem. Obviously it doesn't use a train motor, it uses a normal PF motor. With PUP, this equates to the WeDo 2.0 Medium Motor (as there is no XL equivalent yet). HOWEVER, the default behaviour of the controller is to "bang-bang" control the motor. This means it has two modes - full speed go and stop. And only for as long as you're holding the button down. There is no continual speed control. That seems like quite a large oversight! Now for me, it's not such a problem, as I plan to control the trains with my laptop, which means I can make the controller act however I want. But when connecting the controller directly to the train, it can't be controlled properly.

Well, that's both good news and bad news. The good news is that they plan to continuously update hubs firmware to bring them all to compatibility. Also more hubs - perhaps a "Smart Hub 4 I/O" at some point in the future, two on each end? The bad news is that he seems to be adamant there won't be a compatibility cable released. This is extremely disappointing. I still love the 9v micro motor, which was compatible with PF through the conversion cable. Looks like I won't be able to use this anymore. :( There are lots of hints throughout that they expect the community to step up though. Stuff about "its capable through this, but not officially through Lego yet", sounds like they're aware of some of our reverse engineering efforts. Plus the hint about the two power wires being compatible and expecting third parties to make compatibility options. Which is annoying and triggers my purist sensibilities. Finally, the news that the PUP range will hit S@H in "early 2019" sounds like it'll be a little while yet before we can buy components separately, but I'm guessing they're also waiting for more products to be released. Perhaps the Technic range will get new models in first half of next year that will use PUP, and they want to release all the components at once. EDIT: Saying the WeDo 2.0 Smart Hub can't have its firmware updated is incorrect... they've updated it via the official LEGO app quite a few times.

Thanks for that analysis! I'm not an electronics engineer, but I'm a programmer and have been coming at it from the other angle - I've written a Node.js programming library that makes WeDo 2.0, Boost, and Powered Up components all compatible with each other (https://github.com/nathankellenicki/node-lpf2). It can definitely be connected to a PC, it's just that Lego hasn't released an app for it. A few others including @JopieK on here have done some excellent work reverse engineering the Bluetooth protocol that is spoken. In fact @JopieK has already released his own third party app on the iOS app store that offers a bit more advanced train control functionality, and here's a video of my own automated Powered Up train layout with multiple trains - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tyzo_hHFiUc, so we can definitely write software for Power Functions 2.0 that is more powerful than what Lego has already released. Regarding the ID's you talk about before, we've know of, see here for the list of the ones I know about: https://github.com/nathankellenicki/node-lpf2/blob/master/consts.ts#L9-L21. I suspect with more basic devices (train motor, WeDo 2.0 medium motor), the resistor value is what determines the ID. More advanced devices have their own PCB and micro controller inside to respond (like the Boost motor). About the splitter, I suspect one can be done if the cable has logic inside it, on the basis that something we've discovered on the Powered Up hub. The hub "advertises" two ports, port 0x00 (port "A") and port 0x01(port "B") over Bluetooth. However when you plug in two devices of the same time, such as two train motors, the Hub advertises a new "virtual" port - 0x39 (port "AB"). We can control both motors at the same time by sending commands to port AB. Incidentally it crashes if both those devices are of the "smarter" variety - two Boost motors, two Boost distance/color sensors, etc, but not if they're basic motors. Lego has said they'll be releasing a firmware update to fix this. If Lego releases a Y splitter cable with a small PCB inside it that handles the same logic of creating a new virtual port in software, it may be possible. I'm glad to hear that a PUP to converter cable should be easily doable though, I have a desire to convert my Emerald Night over to PUP, and there's no XL motor yet. There's a thread going on over here about reverse engineering Powered Up, come on over! https://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?/forums/topic/162288-powered-up-a-tear-down/&page=5

Bear in mind, PF has been out for over 10 years now. Over time it has amassed quite a range of motors, cables, other components, etc. It can be expected that Lego will do the same with PUP, and it'll have the added benefit of being compatible with various sensors (some of which are already available and usable even without Lego's help). And I obviously don't know your situation, but it's not inconceivable that you'll upgrade your phone or tablet at some point over the next few years, thereby unlocking all the functionality you're missing now. Nonetheless, If you're determined to sell them, in all seriousness let me know beforehand. :) I'm in the market for more PUP train components!

I'm guessing that most of the issues you're running into are because you've been unable to update the Hubs firmware up until now. I sympathise, but it is quite common in today's day and age for companies to update hardware after it's been out in the wild. I echo one of the suggestions above, perhaps find a friend or family member with a more recent/capable phone or tablet to install the app for you. I got the Powered Up Batmobile recently, and it wanted to update the Hub before I could control it (tip for you: don't buy this, it doesn't come with a controller, it requires the app, though it is compatible with the train remote for basic movement out of the box). I'm betting that as Lego release more sets with Powered Up, they'll keep updating the firmware in the Hub to support whatever features those new sets have. It's worth noting that even Power Functions received upgrades - there were bugs in the first IR receiver, and Lego released a v2 model with later sets that fixed those bugs. They also released more PF battery boxes over time, with more functions. I consider it an advantage that they can update the hardware without me needing to buy newer hardware (if you can update the firmware, of course). In any event, I can say that the above statement of yours isn't true. It may require you to update your firmware, however I have 3 three trains, one with two Hubs (One in the front loco and one in the back loco), four hubs in total on three channels, all controlled with a single controller. To reverse the polarity of a motor, simply rotate the button on the controller around. However I'm also hoping they release a polarity reversing cable like they did with PF. Regarding your comment on "everything should work out of the box" - well, everything advertised on the box *does* work out of the box. You can control the train you bought with the controller it came with right?

Thanks for that, I did wonder! I wondered if the new PF system would just run motors slower with low battery, or if it would be a hard cutoff type situation.

Well, the color sensor is rather weak and only really detects colors up to about 1-2cm maximum, so using a red brick and color mode for the detection probably wouldn't work very well. However it is a "Color and Distance Sensor", both at the same time - so it can detect colors at 1-2cm away, *and* distances of any object at 1-25cm-ish. It doesn't need a color to detect objects. Yes, there's two ports, so you could attach two color sensors, HOWEVER! There is a bug in the hub whereby it will crash if there are two of the same sensor type plugged in at once (Also true for Boost motors, as they are "motor" and "sensor" at the same time). However I have been informed Lego plans to fix this in a firmware update. To work around this you could use the Boost "Color and Distance Sensor" pointing down at the track, and the WeDo 2.0 "Distance Sensor" pointed forward. Note though, if you plug two sensors in, you have no more ports for motors to drive the train! :) In my opinion it works rather well. :) I've driven three trains at the same time - a Horizon Express with two hubs (each with one motor), a Maersk train, and a Metroliner, all connected to the same Powered Up remote. You can have the hubs all on different colors, or two on one color and another on another color, or any combination of, etc. You just cycle between the ones you want to control with the green button on the remote. Obviously if you've hidden your hubs you can't see the colors, so maybe you can put a coloured tile on the outside of the train so you know what color it is inside?

Sadly, no. It is not possible to connect to the PUP or WeDo hubs with the Boost app, and it is not possible to connect to the Boost or PUP hubs with the WeDo app. As a result, official train programming capability is non-existent right now. I personally hope this will come to pass, but for now we can write our own code.

It's waaaaay to early to say that. :) PF existed for 11 years. Powered Up has been out less than 2 months. More PF components were introduced throughout its lifetime, and I imagine the same will happen here. I do expect a PUP to PF conversion cable at some point. @Lok24 I believe he has some other videos where he butchers an mSATA cable to make it compatible, maybe that's what that red bit is?

Indeed. :) The point of the library is I don't want to keep writing individual byte streams to send to the hubs to control stuff, it's nicer to abstract it out. :) Especially because there are subtle differences in the protocol between wedo/boost/poweredup and the hubs and the remotes, it's better to abstract those differences away too so they can all be treated the same. Yes, the library is written in Javascript and intended to be used with the Node.js runtime. I use Visual Studio Code, but the IDE/text editor can be whatever you prefer. That layout is excellent! I like it a lot. I see you've modified quite a few of the components to allow computer interface? How are the trains controlled on your layout? (Edit: I just read you used SBricks)

Sure. :) All the hubs talk directly to my laptop via Bluetooth (You can get a glimpse at it near the end). Here is the code for this layout, build ontop of the node-lpf2 code library I've been building: https://github.com/nathankunicki/node-lpf2/blob/master/examples/automated_train_layout.js

I had spare time this morning and made a fully automated layout with Lego Powered Up/Power Functions 2.0 components. I put a description in the Powered Up teardown thread, but I thought I'd post the video here too:

I had a bit of spare time this morning, so I had a chance to put some of my code to the test. I put up a temporary train layout in my living room with a couple of trains, and decided to automate it. Here's a video: LPF2 components used: * Maersk 10219 - Powered Up Hub, Powered Up Train Motor, and Boost Color Sensor * Horizon Express 10233 - Powered Up Hub and Powered Up Train Motor * Outer Switch - Powered Up Hub with WeDo 2.0 Medium Motor * Inner Switch - Boost Move Hub with Boost Interactive Motor * Stop Detection for Horizon Express - WeDo 2.0 Smart Hub with WeDo 2.0 Distance Sensor Description of the layout: 1. Maersk goes round, and hits the first yellow marker. Train stops, changes outer switch to go into siding, and reverses. 2. Hits the second yellow marker. Train stops, changes the inner switch, and goes forward into the second siding. 3. Hits the third yellow marker. Train stops, changes the outer switch to mainline again. 4. Horizon Express does a loop. Detection sensor senses the train and stops it. Maersk starts reversing again. 5. Hits the yellow marker, train stops. Changes inner switch to point outwards to main loop and outer switch to point inwards. 6. Maersk goes forward at slow speed for 3 seconds, then accelerates to faster mainline speed. 7. Hits yellow marker (mainline), changes outer switch back to mainline. Train continues without stopping. 8. Hits RED marker. Maersk stops, horizon goes, does a loop. 9. Horizon is detected by stop sensor and stops. Maersk goes. Go back to beginning. :)