Mr Hobbles

Kinda...the main problem is they now follow their own spec to the letter! ? Basically virtual port AB is no longer implicitly created when you plug in two devices of the same type. It now expects you to send commands to manually create a grouping. This is something their LWP docs said we should do, but actually wasn’t possible until now. I’ll go into more detail in the other thread. I was using the 0x60 subcommand to control the motors as it was the only one that could control all three, also due to bugs. That’s no longer the case - we can now use DirectModeWrite 0x51 and all motors recognize it. It also looks like they’ve changed 0x60 to properly rely on the existence of AB, which doesn’t unless we create the grouping in firmware. In short, use the same commands to conte motor speed as you would an LED now, as it’ll now correctly work for all motors!

I hope to be proved wrong, but I don't think Lego plans to address that. From their Powered Up FAQ's a few months ago, their opinion was that bang-bang style operation makes more sense for non-train-Motors, as 90% of use cases will be remote control cars. I believe it is a property of the hub. The handheld simply sends button press events to the hub - the hub is responsible for interpreting what to do with them. Re. upgrading handheld - I don't know if this is possible. I've tried connecting a Powered Up remote to the app this evening, to no avail. It is not detected. So, in the meantime, we have to use third party software/libraries to intercept the button presses and send new commands to the hubs. I do recall reading in that same FAQ that they mentioned it might be possible to connect a handheld to the Powered Up app at some point in the future, and use the programming interface to react to button presses. But that doesn't appear to be in this release, if they're still thinking of doing it.

Turns out that day was today. :) New Powered Up app has new firmware update for PUP hub that fixes that bug.

Ok, some initial observations: There is a new firmware update for the PUP hub, that on first glance, appears to do four things: It fixes the bug where plugging in two "non-simple" devices crashes the hub! I am now able to plug in and control two Boost motors on the PUP hub. Yay! It fixes the bug where "rotate by angle" commands didn't work! I can now rotate a Boost motor by X degrees. Yay! It fixes the bug where no rotation events were reported. I can now rotate a Boost motor and it detects and notifies me of the rotation. Yay! It appears to break the 0x60 command I was using to control all motor types by speed. It now doesn't work for controlling any motor. I'll need to do some further investigation. Boo. No firmware update for the Boost move hub yet. I'm still expecting one asap - the Shop@Home description for the move hub states that the PUP remote control works with it - it'll need a firmware update to support that. On the app side, it appears to include some nice sound effects! Trains, cars, trucks, dogs, cats, robots... EDIT: It appears as though the Boost style 0x81/0x11/0x51 DirectWrite commands now work for motors, and they've either removed or changed how 0x60 works. Which means I now need to see if they've accidentally broken the Batmobile, or if it now uses a different command again!

Finally! I was hoping for this! The biggest surprise for me is that they included support for the WeDo 2.0 sensors! I honestly thought they would just forget about them. I’m very glad they didn’t.

I don't actually know, at least consistently. :) I think it's the "LPF2 Smart Hub 2 I/O" and the "LPF2 Smart Move Hub 2 I/O" for the Boost hub. * The LPF2 team themselves call it the "Smart Hub 2 I/O", I expect in reference to it having two input/output ports, but, Shop@Home just calls it a "Hub". * Lego Education also calls the WeDo 2.0 hub the "Smart Hub 2 I/O". Which makes sense as it also has two LPF2.0 input/output ports, but makes no reference to its lesser capabilities or lower power. However I think this platform is now out of date and no longer supported (even though it's still sold), as Lego has stated the firmware or apps will no longer be updated. * The LPF2 team also calls the Boost Move Hub the "Smart Move Hub 2 I/O", I expect the "move" part making reference to it having built in motors. Shop@Home also just calls it a "Move Hub". Regarding the data lines, I wonder if it's simply because 8-pin headers are more commonplace (Is that the case?), so tinkerers are more likely to have them on hand? Two of the data lines may be unused? And I also wonder if we need the full sensor because it handles the initial handshake with the hub. Probably implementing a full identification handshake is beyond the scope of educators making their own sensors. Who knows though. I eagerly await the spec. :)

I'm hoping that this back and forth means they're getting close to app and firmware updates. ie. Was meant to be available last week, but wasn't ready, so they took them off sale, and now they're close again. The descriptions of those components promise certain things that aren't currently possible, so I can't see them putting them up for sale unless that functionality was close.

The brick itself, no, but it is capable of real-time communications with a PC/tablet which could offload the processing, especially as it also states its designed to either work in autonomous or tethered modes. My camera comment was merely an example of one of the types of applications of the high speed ports. Also I still believe SPIKE Prime is the first type of this hub, I'm expecting a Mindstorms replacement within 2 years that ups the capabilities further.

Thanks Jetro. :) I signed up for that community - despite the fact that it saddens me that the discussion has moved towards Facebook with its data-mining and privacy violations. It's great that they've been working on with members of the community on SPIKE, and the inclusion of the 8-pin header on the vision sensor is very exciting. They're already opened the LWP3 specification, now I'm just waiting for the full LPF2 specification so we can put that header to use. There's lots of other interesting information in the tech specs for the hub too. The hub either talks Bluetooth classic or USB to the users smart device. The hub is always cable of talking Bluetooth Low Energy with LWP3 to connect to other LWP3 hubs and remotes (Such as the Powered Up train remote). Two of the ports are special high speed ports - I assume this means for higher demanding peripherals such as cameras and video feeds? Who knows whether Lego will release an official LPF2 camera, but the 8-pin header on the vision sensor opens the possibility for someone to connect one. The ability to use MicroPython on the hub is exciting

Yep, they’re official. It was community driven up until December, when Lego released those docs on LWP3. There’s still stuff that documentation doesn’t cover that we figured out though, so hopefully they keep expanding on it. The only rechargeable batteries so far is for the WeDo 2.0 hub and SPIKE Prime hubs. Nothing yet for Powered Up or Boost hubs.

The released ones already are. :) We have WeDo 2.0 sensors working with the Boost hub, Boost sensors working with the Powered Up hub, Powered Up train motors working with the WeDo 2.0 hub, etc, as they are all LPF2. :) This isn't possible with official Lego apps, but people in the community (myself included) have written other software to enable people to do this, including on laptops. Lego just need to update their apps to do this officially. But the hardware is compatible as is.

It's becoming clearer to me over time that "Lego Power Functions 2.0" (LPF2) is the name for the peripheral standard and Lego Wireless Protocol 3.0 (LWP3) is the wireless standard, whereas WeDo 2.0, Powered Up, Boost, Control+, and SPIKE Prime are names for the brands of Lego products that use the the LPF2 standard. :) The peripheral standard appears to dictate how the peripherals (motors, sensors) connect to their hubs, both in terms of the wire protocol and physical connector. The wireless protocol dictates how the hub communicates back to the users smart device, be it a laptop or phone. For example: For simple automation of system models there is Powered Up, for which the peripherals utilise the LPF2 hardware standard, and the hub utilises LWP3 for communicating back to the users smart device. For simple automation of Technic models there is Control+, for which the peripherals utilise the LPF2 hardware standard, and the hub utilises LWP3 for communicating back to the users smart device. For education and learning: There is WeDo 2.0 for primary education, for which the peripherals utilise the LPF2 hardware standard, but does not use LWP3 as its wireless standard. It uses an older (somewhat similar but more basic) wireless protocol (LWP1? LWP2?). There is SPIKE Prime for secondary education, for which the peripherals utilise the LPF2 hardware standard, LWP3 for communication with other LWP3 devices (ie. Powered Up remotes), and new, as yet undocumented, Bluetooth classic and USB protocols for communicating back to the users smart device. For robotics in the home: There is Boost for younger users, which utilises the LPF2 hardware standard, and LWP3 for communicating with the hub. There is Mindstorms for older users, which currently uses its own hardware standard and wireless protocol. I fully believe there will be a new Mindstorms product within the next year or two which utilises LPF2, and likely, LWP3 somewhere. So far, Lego has released documentation for LWP3, so that we can write code that allows our devices (laptops, phones, etc) to talk to LWP3 hubs - https://lego.github.io/lego-ble-wireless-protocol-docs/ Lego has not so far released documentation for the LPF2 wire protocol though, but I believe they plan to - the SPIKE Prime vision sensor has a removable back, exposing an 8-pin connector and enabling hardware enthusiasts to design and connect up their own motors and sensors. They'll need to release the LPF2 wire protocol publicly to enable people to do this.

I don't agree that the colors are _girly_ per se, but I agree that the color choice is part of a wider swing towards a more inclusive STEM education. By choosing neutral colors that offend neither group (EV3's red/gray/white/black colors are definitely more male orientated, and red and black are known for evoking strong feelings) they're hoping to get more girls into programming and robotics. Personally, I actually love the color choice. :) EV3's color scheme made me think a Razer gaming pc had thrown up all over my Lego collection.

Yes, my apologies, I actually just meant “it’s available to see”, as we were all trying to get a look at the product. :)

The expansion set is already available: https://education.lego.com/en-us/shop/spike-prime/spike-prime-products

This is a known issue with the Powered Up hub and not isolated to Cosmik42's software. It only occurs with "intelligent peripherals" - sensors and tacho motors, but not basic motors and leds. As soon as you plug two in, boom - crash and restart. There are various rumors flying around why it occurs, such as it only having the internal hardware to handle communication with one sensor at a time, who knows. But I've also heard that Lego intends to release a firmware update at some point to stop the crash.

More Powered Up news today! https://shop.lego.com/en-US/category/power-functions All the components are back on sale on the US Shop@Home store! And the descriptions give away some interesting information. 1. The Boost hub is now the "Powered Up Move Hub". The train hub is now the "Powered Up Hub". In fact all the motors and sensors have been renamed to make them more generic. This surely means they're moving to unify them. 2. The description for the Move Hub says you can connect to it from the Powered Up app, which is currently not possible. App update coming soon? 3. The description for the Remote Control says it can pair with either a hub or move hub, which is currently not possible. Firmware update coming soon? 4. The train motor says it can be connected to a Move Hub. As a matter of fact, all the motors and sensors say they can be connected to either hub. I expect app and firmware updates very soon! It seems unification is underway!

Oohh good spot. I went through more pictures and you're right, they all have it. So I have to assume they're all tacho motors, and medium/large as you suggest. Nice. I wonder if they'll work out of the box with the Boost Hub - if they have similar internals to the Boost tacho motor, then they should require minimal/no effort to work with it.

Yeah...more specifically the large one is a tacho motor, with angle rotation and sensing. I think the others are large ones too, just not tacho, but I could be wrong.

An interesting thing to note about this is that you can buy the hub and motor seperately on the shop, but note the names: https://education.lego.com/en-us/shop/spike-prime/spike-prime-products "Lego Technic Large Hub" "Lego Technic Angular Motor" I wonder if the hub in the Technic Liebherr is classed as a smaller hub (since it's only 4 ports)? It also seems like these components might find their way into certain Mindstorms or Technic sets in the future?

Aha I see, thanks for the info! I'm curious to see how it all works - already have my preorder in on the Education site. (July 29th shipping, it's a looong wait)

Interesting, do you have a link where I can read some more about that? I couldn’t find anything on stored program capability.

Agreed - sorry, I think I was unclear. :) I meant the *types* of sensors included is identical to EV3. 2x motors, 1x touch sensor, 1x color sensor (with new RGB LED), 1x distance sensor. But yes the connector is the new LPF2 connector. I also like the new, colorful colors though! I was not a fan of the "gamer" colors in EV3 - red, black, grey. There's a sentence somewhere on the SPIKE site that mentions how the colors were picked for being pleasing and gender-neutral.

I think it's interesting that it includes exactly the same sensors and motors as EV3, and LEGO places it into the same "Secondary Education" category as EV3. They've left WeDo 2.0 in the line up as the "Primary Education" entry. I think this may very well be intended to replace EV3. We'll have to see what the consumer set looks like. CNET though says the processor is an "100MHz M4 320 KB RAM 1M FLASH", which definitely isn't up to par with EV3.

Massive update to the Powered UP ecosystem today: LEGO Education SPIKE Prime! Lots of info here: https://education.lego.com/en-us/meetspikeprime Looks like a new Mindstorms style hub with 6 Powered UP ports and a charging port. Also a programmable 5x5 LED matrix on the front. New EV3 style motors, and a new EV3 style vision sensor (I'm guessing IR again). Two other sensors, can't tell what they are yet. Nice to see them fully embracing Powered UP/Boost/WeDo 2.0 Power Functions 2.0 components. $329.99, preorder today. I'm guessing this replaces WeDo 2.0 and will be the basis for a new consumer LEGO Mindstorms set somewhere down the line (Maybe even as soon as summer release? Though I think January is more likely). EDIT: On closer inspection, the motors and sensors seem to match those in the EV3 set. One IR distance sensor, one light sensor (but with an LED that can be lit up on the front), a touch sensor, and two motors.