Mr Hobbles

Right, all that may be true, but the thread title is "Rechargeable batteries for powered up hubs". I think it's important to point out that one can use standard rechargeable batteries without needing to modify your battery box or risk blowing your battery box by using too many LiPo's. NiMH rechargeable's are commonplace and provide a perfectly reasonable almost-as-good solution without risk. However if you do want to use LiPo's, @Giottist's research and solution is awesome! :)

I have to back that up - I've used both Eneloop and GP ReCyko Pro rechargeable AAA's and AA's over the years with no issues. I use both a GP ReCyko charger and a cheap 16 bay one I got from Amazon. I get a few hours (maybe 3ish?) from my Powered UP trains per charge and then I charge them again. Quite convenient. I have no idea about their mAh properties, I've never cared - they just work. :) I pop six of them in a hub like any other battery and off I go.

Yes, and yes. :) A Boost Motor will work on a Powered UP hub, but does not support angle rotation or reporting the angle rotated. It allows speed control only. Boost Sensor is fully supported on Powered UP hub. Powered UP motor is fully supported on a Boost Move Hub. (All this is only true when used with third-party non-LEGO software to talk to the hubs)

Pardon my ignorance, but why not use normal AAA rechargeables? I have about 60 Eneloop's I use with my Boost, Powered UP and WeDo 2.0 hubs with no issues.

Yeah, in fact there seem to be several references to the hardware being LPF2 (Lego Power Functions 2), as also referred to on the replacement pieces website. Interesting that the BLE protocol is called Lego Wireless Protocol 3.0 - I wonder what 1.0 and 2.0 were?!

Now THIS is something I’m very happy to see! A lot of useful information in here! I’d suspected there was a bit more to peripheral subscription modes, but wasn’t quite sure how to find out. I also didn’t realize that you can set individual motor acceleration curves. I’m eager to try all this when I get back to my PUP components in the new year. I also now wonder of this is implemented on each hub (The PUP hub and Move Hub don’t seem to implement everything the same for example) I’d also like to see some documentation for the individual peripheral commands rather than just the BLE wire protocol. Either way, I’m very happy that this is out there, and especially on GitHub. :) Such a great sharing platform.

Most of the voltage and current readings I've estimated based on whats looks reasonable, as I haven't done any measurements with a voltmeter. :) If you have a better formula, I'll take a look! I have access to all the hardware as I've bought it, but I have no inside links within Lego for information about the hardware. It's all reverse engineering. I also worked with Jorge, as well as a few others as mentioned in the credits - we have a mostly quiet Slack chat we use when new hardware is released! Yes, virtual port 57 only appears when two identical *motors* are installed. This allows you to send a single motor command and drive both at the same time (Different from command 0x60, which allows you to control both ports independently in a single command). Note there is an oddity: if you plug in two Boost motors, the PUP hub fully crashes (blinky lights, disconnect, reset). I don't think it properly knows how to handle a device that is both a motor and a sensor at the same time.

Nice documentation! I like the style, very traditional network protocol style which I find very easy to read. It’s good to have it all written down somewhere. :) You may be interested in this Node.js library I’ve been working on, which provides most of the documented functionality, and brings compatibility between WeDo 2.0, Boost, Powered UP, and the Duplo Trains - https://github.com/nathankellenicki/node-poweredup

My own WeDo 2.0 hubs that have updated (quite a few times) in the past from my Windows 10 app.

It actually does, LEGO has constantly released new firmware for it through the WeDo 2.0 apps. I think the crux of the problem though is that it functions so very differently from the Boost Move Hub and PUP Hub. The Bluetooth protocol is totally different. To make it compatible would not only require a new firmware, but changing all the WeDo 2.0 software out there to make it compatible with a WeDo 2.0 Hub with updated firmware. It would be a LOT of effort for them, so I understand them not wanting to do it.

It's interesting that they've released the Boost Move Hub seperately. I wonder if there'll be a firmware update that makes it compatible with the Remote Control. Also, I hope they've fixed that bug with the normal Hub that causes it to crash when two Boost Interactive Motors are plugged in. :)

I don't think they will ever be "finished", that's too definitive a close to put on the line. Instead, I think the current sales of the line don't warrant a new one every 1 or even 2 years. It may be a few years until we see another one. Whenever Lego deems the time to be right. The exceptions being that, as Jamie Berard said, if there's an opportunity to cross a train with another theme or idea. The Winter Village train, Harry Potter trains, etc.

Actually the port multiplexing already exists on both the Boost Hub and the Powered UP Hub. On the Boost Hub there is a virtual port "AB", which you can send commands to, and it will set that command on both port "A" and "B" at the same time. I actually haven't tested this with ports "C" and "D" though! I might do that this evening. On the Powered UP hub a virtual port "AB" is created internally when you plug in two devices of the same Auto ID. However, it currently crashes the Hub if you plug in two sensors (Boost Color/Distance, WeDo 2.0 Distance/Tilt) or Boost Interactive Motors. I guess there is something here incompatible with sensors as it doesn't expect them to be plugged in, so with two it crashes. With motors it works though. If you plug two train motors in you can control both with a single command on port "AB" (even in opposite directions). For example when you use the Batmobile app with the slider mode for the wheels, it actually sends a single command to port "AB" to control both wheels at the same time.

I didn't mean to say that's what you were suggesting, I was merely saying it seems like it was different somehow rather than broken, perhaps a different/older firmware as you suggest. :) Apologies if I caused offense!

That is a strange bug indeed. If it was corrupted firmware I would have thought *nothing* would work...is it just that the educational train hub has less capabilities? Does it come with the other color track pieces in the box? In another note, I recently moved from London to San Francisco (two weeks ago), and decided to go along to this weeks BayLUG meetup and see what it was about. @M_slug357 happened to be there, and I got to see his 9v battery mod on his Hogwarts Express! Talk about coincidences. I will definitely be going back. :)

Are you talking about the new Powered UP trains? Then yes, it's possible, if you're comfortable with programming. Using Node.js you could create an HTTP server that serves a web interface your nephew could access in a web browser. I've created a Node.js library to interface with Powered UP trains - https://github.com/nathankellenicki/node-poweredup You could then send commands to the train when the web interface is hit.

Duplo #10874 and #10875. Like other Duplo trains, the locomotive is in two pieces - a black base with wheels attached, and a body shell you place on top. JopieK did the electronics teardown earlier in the thread. The new Duplo train base is Bluetooth and app-controlled like the new Lego trains.

I got my hands on the Duplo train base. Manage to figure it all our through a combination of sniffing and playing. Has some interesting features: 1. As @JopieK said, the front light actually behaves the same as the RGB indicator light on other hubs. 2. There are three sounds - 0x05 is a "train departing jingle", 0x07 is the train whistle, and 0x09 is the sound of water filling. All are played through an onboard speaker. 3. The downwards color sensor is a bit different from the Boost color sensor. It does color detection, of course, and it also does distance detection. It seems to count down rather than up though (i.e. further away has larger values). I suspect this is used in combination with the color value to ensure that the colors it detects are on the rails rather than under the rails (ie. ignore carpet color). 4. There is a speedometer on the front wheels! The front wheels are completely free wheeling, but the speedometer also reports the speed that they're going at. Interestingly, if there's no movement on the front wheels, the motored wheels don't go, no matter what commands you give it. So if you tell it to go at speed 100 while holding it in your hands, it will turn on for a second or so, but then turn off again, as the front wheels aren't rotating. It remembers though - if you manually spin the front wheels, it will start moving again. I've added support to my Node.js library (https://github.com/nathankellenicki/node-poweredup) - since, in LEGO's own words, they consider the new Duplo trains part of the Powered UP range. :)

Yes, I've done it with my Metroliner. You need the new PUP Hub and the new PUP Train motor. The PUP Hub fits perfectly behind the engine doors if you remove the arch just behind the driver doors. I've replaced it with two 1x1 bricks. You also need to raise the Hub about two plates off the floor so the train motor wire can feed through the floor, but it still fits perfectly within the available space. The front lights can't be powered currently as there is no converter cable yet, but you could use the new PUP lights instead.

@JopieK I don't suppose you (or anyone you might know) with the new Duplo train hub would be able to send me the manufacturer data string and the port notifications sent at startup? :) I'm trying to avoid buying a Duplo train just to add support for it to my library!

EDIT: Wrong thread, sorry!

Well, for my needs it's a big step up from Power Functions, so I'm quite happy with what they've sold me. :)

It's not a UCS. Despite it having a similar looking black box, it doesn't say "Ultimate Collectors Series" anywhere on it. The press release says this is part of a new "Master Builder Series". After the backlash of the Assault on Hoth UCS it seems TLG now wants to keep playsets seperate.

Got a few sets of the new lights today. Pretty easy to get working for us Bluetooth guys figuring out the protocol. It's the same command as setting basic motor speed: Powered UP Hub and Boost Move Hub: [0x08, portId, 0x81, 0x00, 0x11, 0x51, 0x00, brightness] Sent to the main BLE characteristic used for everything. Brightness is 0-100 (0x00-0x64) WeDo 2.0 Smart Hub: [portId, 0x01, 0x02, brightness] Sent to the MOTOR_VALUE_WRITE characteristic (000015651212efde1523785feabcd123). Brightness is 0-100 (0x00-0x64) same as above. Pictures: https://imgur.com/a/ZUGOtyZ I've added support to my Node.js library: https://github.com/nathankellenicki/node-poweredup EDIT: Forgot to mention, AutoID value of 0x08. Wonder what 0x04 will be then? (0x01 is medium motor, 0x02 is train motor)

Yep, an mSATA cable with half the connector cut away. It has 7 pins, I think he's just ignoring one of them, perhaps they line up well enough