[HELP] Old Technic Education Sets

[jesse66058]

Hi there,

This week i've made the happy discovery to find some special, rather unknown (to my) LEGO sets.

When i started talking with my technical teacher, he told me our school afforded some LEGO a while ago but never actually used it. I'm very curious if i could get everything back to work. So my first question is: i've never, ever used NXT and are unknown to programming software, is there somebody that could help me get the sets 9750 and 9751 working? I already did some research and i have the cable at home to connect the 9751 to the computer, about the power-supplies and software i'm unsure. I got a quick look at them and haven't opened them.

About friday i have all the sets at home to examine them and i hope i can find even more amazing LEGO sets at the black-depths of my school!

Cheers, Jesse

Edited January 29, 2014 by jesse66058

[Azzepa]

This link might be of some use to you: HERE

My school has several of these, been trying to persuade them to let me at them, they never get used Just sit in a tub in the corner of the room with a load of RCX and NXTs. If you do manage to get them working do let me know

Edited January 29, 2014 by Azzepa

[weavil]

Nice find! Wish my school had those back in th day.

[Carrera124]

Nice find.

If you consider selling some of the sets, I might be interested.

[DrJB]

Just curious ... Realistically, what can you do/build with those that you cannot with a Mindstorms set?

I understand the number of inputs/outputs is a higher, but you do need an old computer to run the system, and the programming may not be as 'advanced' as today's intelligent brick ... or am I missing something fundamental?

[NevynPA]

Sure they're old, but I think he was given all of them for FREE. So...Leg godt!

[jesse66058]

Today during the break at school, i looked for more amazing LEGO to find, and YES! It's there!

Almost everything is still sealed and in the suspense i forgot to make more photo's. There was also a big box with an overload of sensors, motors, cables and lights from the 9v aswell the 4,5v system

Chains, links, i even found evidence there may be multiple micromotors in it! I can't wait until tomorrow!

Has anybody some amazing ideas to make with it?

[NevynPA]

You are too lucky! I'm jealous. I wish I had some of that stuff.

[Doc_Brown]

What a find! You really are very lucky! :thumbup:

[jesse66058]

Yesterday i had the chance to explore almost all stuff. I'm so happy! One of the jackpots was a 1dm³ box with plenty of chains and treads!

If i sum up correct:

3x 1032 (overall 80% complete)

3-4x 1033 (unknown)

2x 1090 (Found glue and is heavy used, about 60% complete)

3x 9604 (overall 80% complete)

2x 9606 (unknown)

1x 9701 (sealed)

3x 9750 (sealed)

4x 9751 (sealed)

3x 1039 (unknown) (new)

1x 1039 (unknown) (old)

1x 1038 (unknown)

5x 9771 (sealed)

That's what i know so far, numbers are still growing

I'm far more excited too see all the old stuff, rather than the new stuff. Thanks to Azzepa and google i found much info but many links were broken. This is as far as i came for now:

This is for interface B, my plans in the future are to discover the best working methode to make something amazing. Shortly i'll have an adapter/laptopstand thingy that has a port for the RS-232 serial cable to fire it up!

My plans about interface A are to visit next week a technician friend who can help me connect the IBM card. I've tried many computers but the card is always too big and has the wrong slot. The card seems to be the only way to connect it to the pc. (or not?)

I'll keep you updated.

Edit:

I'm having difficulties with Interface A,

Am i allowed to publish a part of the manual? I just don't understand where these codes have to be written in. I've read something about a BBC Micro computer? Is that correct?

Edited February 1, 2014 by jesse66058

[Azzepa]

Holy Wow. I thought I hit the jackpot when my old school gave their old stuff to me but wow. This makes me jealous. A lot of 4.5V stuff there, and MISB! :wub: What I would do to get my hands on some of that. Out of what you have there, I have I think 2 9751s, minus the temperature sensors, which is a little sad, but hey, can't complain!

Manual wise, I don't think there is anything wrong with posting it, unless someone corrects me.

Also, BBC Micro Computer is one of these:

Mid 80s Computer there, and very very basic compared to what we have now. My guess is some of what you had was produced late 80s-ish and they released the interfaces so you could hook it up to one of these and program them. That's my guess. Therefore the interfaces I guess would be pretty useless without one of these computers. (You can pick them up on eBay, varying prices (at least in the UK)).

[peter_m]

Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww... you are SO lucky!

[jesse66058]

Thank you for all the replies, but i want to make the most fun of it! I was thinking about making things from it with the ideas of others. Maybe a simple printer (suggested by my teacher) as first try if the interfaces will work?

Maybe does the BBC Micro Computer explains why there is nowhere on the internet something about the original software of interface A. I'll share the manual for the 9771 for a while: https://www.dropbox....zvxy/-n9NiI8vrn (It was so fresh, the back was too hard to bent under the scanner )

I can't find such a thing where to insert the codes at. Maybe does somebody recognizes the back of the pc from the 2 and 3 page? Probably interface A will be the hardest, but most awsome quest

Besides from this, i think the temperature sensor has the least versatility, but still a handy piece of equipement

Edited February 1, 2014 by jesse66058

[Azzepa]

Oh the interface wants you to dismantle your desktop and connect it to the motherboard, then plug in the external device to that. Then you can program it from your computer. Seems an interesting setup, although goodness knows whether it would still work.

I agree on the temperature sensor, fun item, but little uses

Making a printer from it sounds like a good idea if you get it working! Maybe the school, could help you in terms of getting the interfaces fitted to a computer for you to use?

[jesse66058]

Oh the interface wants you to dismantle your desktop and connect it to the motherboard, then plug in the external device to that. Then you can program it from your computer. Seems an interesting setup, although goodness knows whether it would still work.

I agree on the temperature sensor, fun item, but little uses

Making a printer from it sounds like a good idea if you get it working! Maybe the school, could help you in terms of getting the interfaces fitted to a computer for you to use?

It's indeed an interesting setup, it makes it only more interesting to see how they did it back in time. (I'm quite young so )

A while back, i had the chance from a company to get 3 Dell Optiplex gx620 free. I gave the full name because they are quite recent models. I've build 2 nice working computers from it, but disappointly it does not fit together It would be a perfect setup althought!

I hope my friend can give me the final awnser to this chapter. Maybe again an adapter, who knows?

Edit: Just noticed i missed page 76. Now complete. Is the language familiar to somebody?

Edited February 1, 2014 by jesse66058

[Azzepa]

Looks like BASIC. What the BBC Micros used. Hrm.

Given enough tinkering and playing around, you'll probably be able to get it to work eventually. I know you can get a BASIC emulator for PCs, don't know whether that might help in getting it to work. Goodness knows if it could work with something connected externally, like a VM does. Talking about VMs, if you get it connected to a computer, maybe you could run some ancient OS on a VM to work with it. Could work?

Oh and don't worry, you aren't the only young one

[paul_delahaye]

Set 1038 Erbie the robot (or something like that)

I have that set in my loft :-)

1038/1039 - They might be education sets, but they have the word technic on the box, so in my opinion, they are part of the technic range of sets. A great find none the less

Edited February 1, 2014 by paul_delahaye

[jesse66058]

I was able to get a free copy of RoboLab 2.9. RoboLab supports above version 2.5.4 Interface B. We will shortly see wich one works the best (or does even work with ). If RoboLab works we don't have to use Windows 98 anymore.

For now i assume interface A used the BASIC OS. For interface A i found the program called BeepEm. Just an OS emulator of the Acorn BBC Microcomputer. I was not succesfull at finding an ISO for a VM. I'm curious how BeepEm could interact with Interface A since it is an emulater like Azzepa said. Maybe i can find in a Teacher Guide or some diskettes some programs that are written for BASIC.

Looking at the codes from the manual, page 76 describes how to connect BASIC with interface A without any ''third party'' program. From there you could say no programs are used here to connect Interface A. It looks like the codes ARE the program. At the end of the codes you can see that when an error occurs, an error message gets printed: https://www.dropbox....67/SCN_0007.jpg

It would only not explain where code "ERC=4" comes from.

(EDIT: "ERC=4" Found)

I found out it's just not only the BBC Microcomputer but works with any compatible IBM Personal Computer with BASIC. This explains why the back from the manual was not the same as the ones from the BBC Series.

http://www.miniland....ta/robotica.htm Proves that there is indeed software next to the codes from the manual.

Edited February 2, 2014 by jesse66058

[DrJB]

Tagging along, I got a set from eBay (in transit) and curious on how to make it work ... with Win7/64 Bit.

[Junpei]

I can't fvcking believe how lucky you are- that is totally awesome! My school has pretty much the exact same stuff, but more of it, but of course I don't get to keep any of it.

I'm looking forward to see what you build with this!

TLH

[jesse66058]

Tagging along, I got a set from eBay (in transit) and curious on how to make it work ... with Win7/64 Bit.

Do you mean interface A? Tomorrow i'll start the rescue mission on school to find the lost diskettes with software and/or Teacher Guide. Tuesday i visit a friend who can help me probably with all my hardware problems.

If you mean interface B, i can sent you RoboLab or ControlLab (Win98) if you want to, should work as stated on the internet. (Works on Windows 7 64 bit, but you need to install the NXT driver for some random reason apart from it to make it work.)

@ TwentyLeggedHan: Well, i feel to make something awsome for my school back.

EDIT: I heard diskettes could lose their information because they are magnetically.

Edited February 2, 2014 by jesse66058

[DrJB]

Question: Would the 9751 box work directly with a PC (equipped with an old style serial port) or does it need the 9750 interface card?

@ Jesse - Thank You, I got the 9751 box ... was hoping/thinking if I can get an RS-232 adapter (to USB), my computer should be able to talk to it ... but now having second thoughts. It appears the interface card 9750 is needed (?) ... or not?

Edited February 2, 2014 by DrJB

[jesse66058]

Question: Would the 9751 box work directly with a PC (equipped with an old style serial port) or does it need the 9750 interface card?

Interface B (9751) works directly with a PC or laptop that has a RS-232 port. The IBM Card (9771) is only meant for Interface A(9750).

Helpfull info about interface B:

http://lgauge.com/te...rfaceB/9751.htm

If you want the original software i'll hear it.

EDIT: DrJB The card is only for 9750 (4,5 set). You don't need one. I heard from a near company that also uses a serial port for their equipment to measure networks that USB converters are not as reliable as any other solutians because the adapters have their own inbuilt electronic converters. (A laptopstand or something else should be more reliable)

Edited February 2, 2014 by jesse66058

[jesse66058]

Well, it certainly did not went as expected:

1. I was not able to find any diskettes and without it, it's (almost) useless. The card from 9750 is not compatible with new computers. The slot aswell the 'lay-out' got outdated. The only original way to make it work is if i find the diskettes is to buy an old computer. Althought i have not asked my school yet if they still have an IBM computer with DOS on it available

2. I'm getting real headaches of Interface B. RoboLab does not work and bugs in every aspect. ControlLab on Windows 98 also doesn't work (yet!) because it does not support the adapter for the SR-232 port on the current computer. I hope it works with another computer where a SR-232 port is integrated in the motherbord. For now it does only work with the program from LGauge. Reverse engineering the program to make a specific program for each creation would mean an immense time of work

3. My teacher found a new batch of LEGO. When opening the boxes of Interface B, they were gone. Luckily my teacher found them back with even more LEGO

Some notes about the 9751 and sensors:

- The rotationsensor is very accurate. It can measure at low speeds one single rotation in 16 steps! (22.5 degrees)

- The 9751 does not like buggymotors

- In comparisations i can regulate any motor towards far lower speeds with 9751 than any other powersource (PWM maybe?)

- The lightsensor is not very accurate. Maybe does a LEGO approved setup proves the opposite (and i get it working with the real software)

Got somebody any tips about the software?

[DrJB]

Thank you for the update. I got my 9751 connected, but not able to run any software yet. I did buy a serial port card (RS-232 DB9) for my computer as it has only a PCI-Express slot and no on-board RS-232. Next step: Install a virtual machine and load Win98. ...

@Jesse

Most likely Interface 9750 uses either the old PCI or (even older) ISA slot (see link below) ... those were in use about 20 years ago, which is about the time such lego products came out ... My first computer had both, a long time ago, and I was plenty happy with an 80 MB hard-drive, a 3.5" floppy, and a 386 CPU with a Cirrus Math co-processor (387). This sounds so 'yesterday'.

https://www.google.com/search?q=PCI+vs+ISA+slot&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=LhT1UtzTIejQyAG3xICgCg&ved=0CDEQsAQ&biw=1326&bih=642

In any event, I hope I can get it to work, where did you get RoboLab Software as the links from the Lego site are no longer valid?

Edited February 7, 2014 by DrJB