More info from LEGO about the future of Trains

[paksu]

From The Brothers Brick:

Dear all,

As promised in the first communication from the 1st of October we, are informing you of decisions regarding the development of the new LEGO Power Functions train system. Using all the valuable feedback we received from the AFOL community, we have now reached some basic decisions about the scope of the future train system.

We are still working on the details of the new Power Functions train system; however, there are certain features that have been decided. Some of these features are a new designed remote control with speed regulator, a new size rechargeable battery box with a built in speed regulator and finally we are exploring and seriously considering new track geometries thanks to the use of plastic rails. As you know, this has been one of the most requested features from the AFOL community over the years.

In late April 2007 we arranged a workshop for a group of 5 AFOLs involved in the LEGO train community, and they worked on some of the possible solutions and defined the basic needs for a new LEGO Power Functions train system along with the LEGO design and engineering team. In this workshop it became clear what sort of elements and features to include in the new train system. The result of this workshop was the design of prototype elements. Detailed decisions about the specifications of the elements are still in discussion and will be for the next couple of months.

We wish to continue the cooperation with the AFOL community in the development of the Power Functions train system and in late November we had another workshop where we built on the experiences from the first workshop. In the November workshop there were ten fans from around the world: Denmark, USA, France, Belgium, the Netherlands, Germany, and United Kingdom. The idea was that the AFOLs and the LEGO team would build with the prototypes in order to determine what additional features to include, what to add to the concept and, finally refining it. This ensures that the new Power Functions train system gets input from the AFOL community and also ensures the features are as close as possible to what is requested by the AFOL community.

However, please keep in mind that the new train system first and foremost should be suitable for the use of children, and therefore it is consequently being tested by children as well as AFOLs. There is an established budget for the initial development so while we would like to address all needs that are expressed; there is a high likelihood that we will be unable to address all needs.

You will be updated on the results of the workshop and the continued development of the train system early in 2008. We continue to value and appreciate your feedback and suggestions with regards to this project.

Richard Stollery,

Head of LEGO Community Development

So, it's remote control. Is it going to be infrared?

This is not actually all bad news. With rechargeable batteries, I might even consider adding one or two of the new kind of trains to my 9V layout... Improved track geometry is a huge bonus, although it won't help me.

[Hinckley]

From The Brothers Brick:

So, it's remote control. Is it going to be infrared?

This is not actually all bad news. With rechargeable batteries, I might even consider adding one or two of the new kind of trains to my 9V layout... Improved track geometry is a huge bonus, although it won't help me.

That's a good point. I agree that this news isn't horrible. Clearly, they had to stop creating the metal tracks in order to cut costs and produce the other lines they wanted to focus more energy on. I am looking forward to something positive to come out of this and I really hope it does. I love the train line and even the designs of the remote control line were good. I just hope that the new system really does address a lot of the issues that were brought up. Wait and see! *sweet*

Thanks for bringing this to our attention paksu! :-)

[paksu]

I love the train line and even the designs of the remote control line were good.

I agree that they look nice, but I dislike the build of 7897 because of the huge <insert that tiresome argument> pieces... And I especially fear that the "foremost suitable for the use of children" point means that the juniorisation will continue.

Thanks for bringing this to our attention paksu! :-)

No prob. :-)

[Siegfried]

Thanks for reposting this here. I am very surprised and a bit disapointed to hear that they are considering another battery box. :-/ I hope that it is really light and powerful to make buying another different one worthwhile. Other than that it is nothing new, but it is good to have updates and know that Lego hasn't forgotten trains. :'-)

I agree that they look nice, but I dislike the build of 7897 because of the huge <insert that tiresome argument> pieces... And I especially fear that the "foremost suitable for the use of children" point means that the juniorisation will continue.

I agree. I bought both sets and while I did like them a lot, some aspects, like the giant remotes, I didn't. :-/ The giant nose was annoying also as it is hard to make compact tracks... :-|

[Captain Green Hair]

Well since i heared this news i've started buying up 9V track, engines and speed regulators.

If i ever have space i want to build a huge layout, and the idea of having to change batteries every time doesn't sound that good. Plus you can hang lights under a speedregulator to ligth everything up.

And you gotta love those metal rails *wub*

But i can understand TLC and no wires on the track should be nice too!

[lostcarpark]

Well on the surface it sounds good, so long as they're not just picking "yes men" who'll agree to anything for fear of getting left out of the next round of workshops.

New track geometries are the one thing that could sell this to AFOLs. It may take a while to convince fans with a big track collection, but if there are lots of new and interesting curves available, eventually you've got to sit up and take notice. Rechargeable battery packs also sound good. I can imagine future train shows with a bank of battery packs charging away to swap over as trains start to die. Hopefully they won't be glued to a particular train base size, as that would kill it for many AFOLs. Hopefully they will also be able to power our multimotored behemoths!

Personally I'd like to see the end of the motor bogie, and a small new motor that can fit into a brick built bogie. That would free us from the slightly awkward wheel spacings of the traditional Lego train motors, and allow us to make our own arrangements that fit properly with our trains, and escape the tricks we've had to do to make C0-C0 bogied locomotives, or steam trains. From Lego's point of view this has the advantage that the resulting motor could be used for lots of non-train purposes. All that's needed is a small motor, 4-studs wide that a technic axle will fit through.

The last two paragraphs are slightly worrying, though. On the one hand, I think it's realistic that the system has to be usable by children, and no one with a bit of realism expects to get everything we want. I don't see this as a problem if you consider the current power functions dinosaur and bulldozer usable by children.

On the other hand it could be saying that all our requests have been ignored and we're getting another round of <insert that tiresome argument> trains with Jack Stone minifigs. :-)

[tedbeard]

Well on the surface it sounds good, so long as they're not just picking "yes men" who'll agree to anything for fear of getting left out of the next round of workshops.

I attended a talk at BrickCon in Seattle in October given by one of those who had attended the first "workshop" (I hope he was at the most recent one) and it seemed pretty clear they spoke their minds and gave lots of ideas for how AFOLs would like the system to work.

They apparently talked about different kinds of batteries, wireless recharging, different control systems (IR vs other possibilities) and other items. It sounded like they got to be fairly frank but they had to recognize that they were making suggestions, not providing specifications.

The first announcement about the death of 9V came out in the days before BrickCon and I went down prepared to buy as much 9V as I could afford. After the talk I am happy to wait and invest in the new system (as someone who has very little 9V right now - those with large 9V layouts may wish to get what they can now.)

[Section8]

I wonder if this new battery box will be able to integrate into old 9V trains with little effort. I only have one 9V train, 10001, so being able to switch it to the new system would be great. I would assume that means the box has to be only four-wide to fit inside it. Only time will tell.

[Brick Miner]

do you guys think "new track geometries" possible includes inclines for elevated to ground level passenger trains ??? if so, this could be the selling point for me.

- BM

[Asuka]

do you guys think "new track geometries" possible includes inclines for elevated to ground level passenger trains ???

Perhaps this is too much to ask for, although it would be a really great idea.... perhaps

we

[Freddie]

Track geometry in LEGO's sense would mean curves with a different radius, crossover track. I doubt we'll see any inclines, as in up- and down-hills for bridges and such, if that's what you meant, BM. That effect can easily be done with simple bricks.

I do like the idea of the battery box/speed regulator being designed for rechargable batteries. That means that it will be optimized for that kind of batteries, so it gets more performance out of them.

I would still like to see the old lightbulbs replaced with LEDs - preferably a kind that lights up at full strength already at lowest speed setting.

[Brick Miner]

That effect can easily be done with simple bricks.

i'm looking for a way to do this "systemly" though. the 9V and RC track was not designed to be anything but flat, and i respect the design of LEGO elements, for what they are.

inclines would be the only thing that would really get me super interested in the new track over the old.

well, that and a way to connect curved rails to a baseplate without having to build a bed for the tracks. that is to say, curved tracks right to the baseplate... just as can be done with straight rails, and as seen in official sets.

- BM

[alex54]

I'm wating for some goods things so.

Some new track geometries sound very promising!

BM, if TLC will make some inclined tracks, the motor has to be very powerfull to cary on some wagons. But it can be very funny and can add some relief to a layout.

I just hope that this new system will be well done, so TLC will not give us another new system in the next 2 years...

[lostcarpark]

Hmmm, I've taken 9V track up inclines, and as long as the climb rate is gentle enough, it isn't a problem. If you want to bring your train up a short ramp, I agree you'll have problems - not least in stopping the train slipping back down the tracks. I don't have a problem with this, as most real trains have difficulty with anything over a 1:50 climb. I'm reminded of the big blue ramp pieces of Tomy Thomas the Tank Engine trains, and I don't think they're needed.

Just my opinion. Feel free to convince me otherwise.

Now what I would love to see is curved points. Assuming we have at least two track radii, a set of points with the the smaller radius on the inner curve, and the larger radii on the outer curve would be really beautiful. They could be paired to allow a crossover to be placed on a curve, saving space for stations and other elements on the straights. Model railways have these, and they look so elegant.

Perhaps I'm getting ahead of myself.

[Hinckley]

inclines would be the only thing that would really get me super interested in the new track over the old.

I hope it can make it up an incline with that battery pack...

[highlandcattle]

All good news so far! I'm just hoping that lego listens enough to the afols.

[Klaus-Dieter]

Thank you very much for the new information, paksu!

Don't be angry with me, but I feel that this article doesn't bring (many) new aspects - it's only to put lipstick on the pig!

The only really new aspect is that we perhaps will get new tracks - so it makes no sense to buy now the new RC cargo train because you perhaps won't be able to use its (and generally all now available RC) tracks for the PF trains in 2009. Apart from this the new cargo train is in my opinion very expensive - so I'll wait for what the 2009 train theme will bring with it - hopefully a nice passenger train with a sleeping and dining waggon, a nice cargo train with/and a cargo loading station, a modern engine shed with roller gates and a depot(like http://eurobricks.hosting.ipsyn.com/eurofo...pic=9448&st=30) and some accesory buildings similar to the ones I described on http://eurobricks.hosting.ipsyn.com/eurofo...pic=9448&st=180

I agree that they look nice, but I dislike the build of 7897 because of the huge <insert that tiresome argument> pieces... And I especially fear that the "foremost suitable for the use of children" point means that the juniorisation will continue.

No prob. :-)

I totally agree with you, paksu!

The last year's cargo train looks very nice but this passenger train looks very childish!

Hopefully the new 2009 passenger train (I think that there surely will be one) will have a better designed and will include doors!

So let's wait for more news and hope for that TLC will design train sets which we AFOLs would like to - but since TLC is working together with AFOLs this is at least a good sign and perhaps it'll help (us)!

Edited December 9, 2007 by Klaus-Dieter

[Joebot]

I just hope that this new system will be well done, so TLC will not give us another new system in the next 2 years...

I WANT to get excited about the new system, but I keep coming back to Alex54's point here.

Even if the new system is freaking awesome and has everything any train fan could ever want, it's still going to struggle if Lego doesn't finally start putting some marketing muscle behind their train line. Train sets are very hard to find in retail, and they rarely ever get any kind of advertising push.

As for the question of building inclines, I've done that before. It's pretty simple to do, but it eats up a TON of bricks and space.

[Diamondback]

Another idea, for MOC'ing: Relocate the battery-box to an unpowered 'dummy' unit behind the powered one, running cables between the two like a real multiple-unit diesel lashup, or in the tender of a steamer.

Better still would be if the battery-box could pull double-duty as a recharger so that while running on old 9V track it'd recharge the batteries for the next stretch "off-grid"...