Zar-Ifrikt - Work In Progress

[mccoyed]

For me, I have trouble with the idea that you're trying to shoehorn your own (somewhat previously established in your mind) personal storyline and elements into GoH, rather than letting your storyline organically grow within the world of GoH.

I do agree with Sarah- the technology stuff doesn't really fit in GoH. GoH is distinctly medieval, with the height of technology being some of the siege engines. Granted, there's magic, but it shouldn't be used simply as a plot device to shoehorn super powered weapons and advanced (for the era) technology in. You've got a really cool idea with the isolationist orcs, and their industrious ways, just don't take them too far- keep it at being amazing at smithing weapons and armour. Perhaps they could have mighty iron siege engines, like ballistae and trebuchets, instead of the usual wood and iron mix. Don't miss the point of GoH, it's a forum where a community comes together to tell a story and to provide advice for improving (that can include builds and story-writing).

With that, I do like the figs, the armour is pretty cool, and will set yours apart, but do be wary of the challenges that don't allow you to use third party stuff. I do look forward to seeing the Zar-Ifrikt successfully intergrated with GoH.

Behemoth, I think these comments sum up what you should take out of the feedback you're getting here.

[Yzalirk]

I wish you guys wouldn't bring it up!

I want to use those Flamethrowers super bad but perhaps it could be used as maybe a prototype design that fails horribly when used, like explodes or something? Maybe it shoots magic or something? I'm spit-balling ideas right now as I'm typing this but I would have loved to have used the idea as there being only a select few in GoH due to the outlandish idea, complicated design and mechanics, and the resources it takes to use it. Maybe it can be a combination of both realistic and fantasy in the sense it can only use the breath of a Dragon and that would be super hard to get because of how dangerous it would be to get that. Again, they're ideas and if there is no way to get around it, I'll just completely scrap the idea.

And the minifigs shown in the picture will not be the Zar-Ifrikt, in case you guys are wondering, they will be Orc minifigs.

[mccoyed]

I wish you guys wouldn't bring it up!

I want to use those Flamethrowers super bad but perhaps it could be used as maybe a prototype design that fails horribly when used, like explodes or something? Maybe it shoots magic or something? I'm spit-balling ideas right now as I'm typing this but I would have loved to have used the idea as there being only a select few in GoH due to the outlandish idea, complicated design and mechanics, and the resources it takes to use it. Maybe it can be a combination of both realistic and fantasy in the sense it can only use the breath of a Dragon and that would be super hard to get because of how dangerous it would be to get that. Again, they're ideas and if there is no way to get around it, I'll just completely scrap the idea.

And the minifigs shown in the picture will not be the Zar-Ifrikt, in case you guys are wondering, they will be Orc minifigs.

Behemoth, this post is why people keep bringing "it" up. You say you'll scrap ideas that don't fit, and that's exactly what everyone is saying you need to do. Take the issue with the flamethrower. It's not just about whether it works or how rare it is. Stuff like that looks and feels wrong for GoH according to people (for the most part) who have helped build this community from the beginning. You get a lot of pushback on your ideas because people here are trying to coax you into playing nicer with the standards of GoH. No one wants to come right out and say "no, you can't do that" and because of that, you keep repackaging ideas you know don't fit in an attempt to make them more acceptable. It's not just the technology stuff, it's the whole underpinning insistence you have on trying to change GoH to suit you when you haven't even really contributed a build yet. SarahJoy put it much better than I could have.

In specific cases, like the flamethrowers, I understand the urge to use what you've got. I have a bunch of those myself, but I wouldn't try and use them for GoH. That's why you saw them in my Post-Apoc build. I have tons and tons of Lego that would never work in GoH. I also have tons of ideas that would never work. And that's okay! I am free to go and do whatever I want and still post it to EB as I see fit. In fact, I haven't done a GoH build in a bit now because I've been doing just that.

And believe me, I share your frustration that there's only really GoH and Star Wars in terms of community world-building and storytelling projects. I wish there were similar things for space opera, post-apoc, cyberpunk, pirates, steampunk, etc etc etc forever. :P

[Lord Vladivus]

Behemoth, this post...

Snip

I agree with everything mccoyed is saying. Guns, and by extension flamethrowers and the like are a no in GoH. The only time it's been used (and even then, they were primitive muskets, based on a technology not understood by any but a few Kaliphlin dwarves) was in the first days of GoH, when the guidelines and boundaries were laid down, and the use then pretty much decided that they'd not be used. Advancing the technology as such would take the setting out of it's medieval time and into something akin to what the pirate forum guys have planned. GoH works because we keep it at the technological level it's at- if we let you advance it, then every new member will come along and think, ah I'll just add this cool technological advancement as there's already this, and pretty soon we'll be colonising Alfa Eurbrikka in the Legodt Galaxy. Which isn't the point. It's a medieval, multi-builder, collaborative, role-playing, building game.

Honestly, if this many people are vetoing it before it's built, do you think it's going to go down well? No matter how well it's built, if it doesn't fit, people won't like it.

I really think you've got some great ideas, as I'd mentioned before, but keep them medieval!

[Yzalirk]

I'll scrap the idea then. Everything else, weapon wise, is okay though? In GoH, there can also be enchanted weapons, if I'm not mistaken, right? Could I do anything with that?

Also, what other kinds of "exotic" technology exists in the GoH realm besides a little bit of gun powder and those muskets?

[kabel]

That's as excotic as it gets. Maybe you should do some reasearch on what life around 1450 actually looked like.

[Yzalirk]

That's as excotic as it gets. Maybe you should do some reasearch on what life around 1450 actually looked like.

I have a basic idea of what life was like in 1450 in Europe, especially, from History classes I took. People like Da Vinci make it interesting with what he designed and that seems to influence my ideas a lot with the Zar-Ifrikt. Here is a page with some designs Da Vinci thought of that are very interesting so feel free to take a look at it if you guys want. Apart from that, I want the style to lean towards the ancient Romans so I'll do more research on that.

Back to inventions real quick, I'd love to build things like Trebuchets up to what Da Vinci had in mind, especially the huge Crossbow.

[mccoyed]

And backreading the forums to look at builds (don't bother reading all the threads and comments, just get context) is how I personally got a feel for what works and what doesn't in GoH.

Some people do push the boundaries a bit but it's generally considered to be out of bounds when it overpowers a character such that they could affect the world. It's the same principle that governs tabletop gaming. No one character in a D&D group can be too powerful. Same idea here.

[Lord Vladivus]

Enchanting weapons is ok- but not superpowered, think more along the lines of the weaker enchanted blades from The Elder Scrolls. The odd superpowered one is ok, but seeing as they're often plot devices (the Elemental Helm), it's a case of less is more. Things like, it makes a human as strong as a Minotaur- so not a huge leap.

DaVinci is cool, but I would steer clear of the more exotic stuff. Bear in mind, a lot of his stuff was ideas and not necessarily tested or used. The crossbow idea though is great, and like I said, maybe have your Zar-Ifrikt make a metal one, maybe using iron mixed with an enchanted metal as an alloy to make it flexible like wood, but stronger?

Roman wise, ballistas, testudos, siege towers, onagers and mangonels would be cool to see. Maybe a uniformed fighting technique with the Zar-Ifrikt working in units supporting each other.

[Yzalirk]

Enchanting weapons is ok- but not superpowered, think more along the lines of the weaker enchanted blades from The Elder Scrolls. The odd superpowered one is ok, but seeing as they're often plot devices (the Elemental Helm), it's a case of less is more. Things like, it makes a human as strong as a Minotaur- so not a huge leap.

DaVinci is cool, but I would steer clear of the more exotic stuff. Bear in mind, a lot of his stuff was ideas and not necessarily tested or used. The crossbow idea though is great, and like I said, maybe have your Zar-Ifrikt make a metal one, maybe using iron mixed with an enchanted metal as an alloy to make it flexible like wood, but stronger?

Roman wise, ballistas, testudos, siege towers, onagers and mangonels would be cool to see. Maybe a uniformed fighting technique with the Zar-Ifrikt working in units supporting each other.

All those ideas, and advice, are great so I'll keep them in mind. I'll also do some research on those weapons and try to build them in LEGO form for minifigs.

As for their fighting style, I do plan on making it more organized. Most Orcs aren't very organized so think of them being like Orcs from LotR and the Hobbit but more organized, more deadlier, stronger, and better armed. Orcs are pretty weak in those movies but are very abundant and that's the way I want to approach it so having the huge steel armor and think leather armor does serve a good purpose. Along with potions and enchantments to make these guys stronger will be something I'll try to do as well but nothing too strong.

[SerenityInFire]

Primitive medieval guns were really nothing more than just metal or wooden tubes filled with gunpowder and lit with a fuse. They weren't used much as you had as much a chance of blowing yourself up as you did firing the weapon.

[Bregir]

*snip* Along with potions and enchantments to make these guys stronger will be something I'll try to do as well but nothing too strong.

That's the thing about RP - no matter how strong you claim to be, you will need other players to buy into it, since you can never force the reactions of others.

If you are god modding (e.g. making excessively powerful characters), and others does not buy into it, you will simply have a race that seems to "think" it is powerful, while others react to them as if they are not.

Therefore, seek to create a believable story that fit well into the setting. That way, others will enjoy interacting with your creation. No one like to be the inferior part in any game, or forced to change their perspective on the setting radically!

Having one or two points in which your civilisation is superior shouldn't be a problem - especially not if they have corresponding weaknesses.

Others have already given you input as to what is "Go" and "No go" in GOH - So please take my comments above as general thoughts and advice on RP. I am not trying to tell you what is allowed and not allowed - only trying to give you some input on how a roleplaying community like this will typically work.

Hope this was helpful in some way!

/Bregir

Edited September 5, 2014 by Bregir

[mccoyed]

I think Bregir makes a solid point here. Behemoth, you should worry less about the minutiae of "strengths" and "powers" and gear (this isn't World of Warcraft after all) and simply focus on story.

[Yzalirk]

I'll take all advice into consideration, don't worry. I've also never played World of Warcraft, and I never really cared for it, so I'll try to not make it seem like that if that's what's happening.

-------{UPDATE}------

I received my orders for the Zar-Ifrikt, so I'll be posting my *new* siggy and The Grustrag Three either later today or later this week!

[mccoyed]

I'll take all advice into consideration, don't worry. I've also never played World of Warcraft, and I never really cared for it, so I'll try to not make it seem like that if that's what's happening.

-------{UPDATE}------

I received my orders for the Zar-Ifrikt, so I'll be posting my *new* siggy and The Grustrag Three either later today or later this week!

The point is that WoW is a game where power levels and stuff matter. GoH is world-building project where it does not.

Also, I get the feeling that when you say you'll take fairly strong objections to your ideas as "advice you'll consider", you're actually giving us all the brush off. I have this feeling that, whenever you do get around to actually building something, it's gonna be whatever the heck you feel like regardless of what GoH is all about. I hope that's just my imagination cuz I think we'd all like to see some MOC to back up all the TALK (see what I did there? bahaha) at this point, buddy.

Edited September 8, 2014 by mccoyed

[Yzalirk]

The point is that WoW is a game where power levels and stuff matter. GoH is world-building project where it does not.

Also, I get the feeling that when you say you'll take fairly strong objections to your ideas as "advice you'll consider", you're actually giving us all the brush off. I have this feeling that, whenever you do get around to actually building something, it's gonna be whatever the heck you feel like regardless of what GoH is all about. I hope that's just my imagination cuz I think we'd all like to see some MOC to back up all the TALK (see what I did there? bahaha) at this point, buddy.

I can't take all advice that's given, like if it's with parts I don't have and things like that. Also, it is your imagination that you basically think I don't care because the whole point of this thread, is for advice with WIP's. Typically, I'll show one picture, ask for feedback and add things that could make it a whole lot better. So yes, I do care what you guys have to say. If I didn't care, I'd come off acting like a jerk. So expect pictures soon, if not today then definitely some time this week. I would take pictures ASAP but it's very cloudy and I'm trying to get pictures that don't look choppy and grainy and I think it's because I'm trying to take pictures close up.

[mccoyed]

I can't take all advice that's given, like if it's with parts I don't have and things like that. Also, it is your imagination that you basically think I don't care because the whole point of this thread, is for advice with WIP's.

You're really being given advice on ideas and not builds in this thread, so it's not relevant to what parts you have. It's more about the underlying logic of what you're talking about and how you're talking about it, if that makes sense.

And I do think you care. I just don't know how seriously you take the standards and precedents of GoH when you have a hard time giving up obviously unfit ideas like advanced technology and stuff. :P

[kabel]

Take your moc outside, take a pic and use a graphic program to light it up. Actually, having clouds is much better than straight sunshine. I took my dwarven council moc on my balcony while it was raining!

[Yzalirk]

Alright, I took six pictures and got some pretty good pictures for my new siggy, the Zar-Ifrikt General,Vem Tabook!

If you don't know which one, he's the one with the peg-leg, the hook-hand, and is in the front.

Edited September 8, 2014 by Behemoth

[TheRedViper]

Some nice looking figs, can't wait to see them in action!

[Yzalirk]

Some nice looking figs, can't wait to see them in action!

Glad you like them, I definitely want to go with the badass brute look and I think I pulled it off. I'll be uploading some pictures of The Grustrag Three in a little bit as well for you guys.

Here's another picture of him by himself.

Edited September 8, 2014 by Behemoth

[TheRedViper]

Can I ask what lighting you did use in the end, because I always can't seem to get the perfect lighting, but yours looks pretty good.

[mccoyed]

See, those look good. Do you have enough bricks to do a more developed base for them to stand on? :P

[Yzalirk]

Can I ask what lighting you did use in the end, because I always can't seem to get the perfect lighting, but yours looks pretty good.

My lighting is very amateur but what I use is a lamp like this one and a regular tall lamp. But I mainly rely on the first lamp I linked which I got at WalMart for something under $20 a few years ago. But I do keep the light right over it and pretty close as well.

See, those look good. Do you have enough bricks to do a more developed base for them to stand on? :P

Yes, I do but I got extremely lazy and use the base from my two old MOC's for it. For my builds however, I will be using a different base. I'm debating on whether I should just use the 16x16 plates I got (in both tan and green) but I don't know because I still like the border but I'll try to make one that goes good with plates.

[TheLegoDr]

Interesting group. I haven't seen too many peg-legs or hooks in GoH for some reason, so that will be interesting.

I think I may too much of a purist (for now) for brickforge, etc products. I bought some from Brickwarriors or Brickforge and they just didn't fit well with LEGO. The heads kept getting stuck in the helmet.

Either way, I'm sure these guys will be a formidable foe on the battlefield.