Boiler Issues

[jtlan]

Hmmm. My plan was to make the main 'bulk' (ie cab and tender) 7 wide, and allow some bits to be wider, which I've achieved. It took a *lot* of work to get the footplate right so it was consistent along the whole engine and tender and allowed for the very slight plate along the side of the tender. It's possible I could move the splashers (wheel arches?) further in to be a little bit more in line with the wheels, I'm not sure that it would overall improve the look. Fix one thing, break several more things. The other problem is keeping the footplate strong enough to be viable and still clearing the wheels. This is something I will be able to experiment with more when I build it in real Lego (clearances aren't always perfect on LDD).

Here's sort of what I was suggesting -- the model is 6-wide at the splashers, but the cab is 7-wide and the footplate is (7 + 1/2 plate)-wide. There's small gaps under the splashers, because I'm not sure if I can move the brackets in to cover them without colliding with the flanged drivers.

Edited August 22, 2014 by jtlan

[Redimus]

Thanks for the input guys. I'll do some experiments with the suggestions on boiler and chimney when I get a chance. As for the footplate whilst I'm aware that it's a bit wider than I would have hoped, I have already spent a lot of time trying to achieve what I wanted and really can't see how I can get closer to teh required effect at the moment.

I would love the LXF on this so I could mod it a bit.

I'm sure that can be arranged.

[Redimus]

Update.

Given it a bigger boiler. If anything, this one is a little too big.

LDD file.

Edited August 28, 2014 by Redimus

[cgarison]

I want to thank everyone on this thread because I finally have some working concepts to improve the boiler on my 4-4-0 MOC. As the cars grew to be closer to 8 wide, I needed to increase the width of the 6 wide cab of the train which has left me with what now looks like a very tiny boiler. Looks like my show in a couple of weeks will be the dry run for the MOC and PhilCon will be the debut now that I want to make even more changes. On to Bricklink to get more parts!

Do we ever get done improving our MOCs?

[zephyr1934]

Without knowing the prototype I like the look of the larger boiler design; but to my eye, I think the narrower boiler is a better match to the prototype.

[jtlan]

Without knowing the prototype I like the look of the larger boiler design; but to my eye, I think the narrower boiler is a better match to the prototype.

Seconded. The 6-wide boiler is way too large. If the smaller boiler feels too narrow I think it's a matter of the footplate being too wide, rather than the boiler being too small.

[Redimus]

The prototype does have a rather short and fat boiler, which makes the second version more accurate, especially with flatter smokebox door and handrail on the smokebox door. But I have to say I too still prefer the first version.

I really don't see the point in keeping the boiler and basically rebuilding everything else when it's only the boiler I'm not entirely happy with. I spent a lot of time getting the chassis to work in a way where there's a little bit of footplate beyond the sides of the cab and tender in the same way there is with the prototype, and to still ensure it was the same height along the whole engine without fowling the wheels, and I'm very happy with the result.

The one thing I'm very happy about the second version is the slightly larger smokebox, which I'd all but given up hope of achieving.

[Lazarus]

That new one does fit the body better but now it looks like it need to be streched a bit. Looks like a Tank now not a tender loco.

But I think i need to see it in 3d before I can put in any more input, I will download the LXF when I get home and have a look.

I might say the first was still better overall look.

I think I will try and make the body 7 wide and I think that will even it all out.

[Redimus]

If you can make it 7 wide at the footplate and still maintain the tender and cab step in from the footplate, I'm totally stealing your work! :P

[jtlan]

If you can make it 7 wide at the footplate and still maintain the tender and cab step in from the footplate, I'm totally stealing your work! :P

My previous post contained a solution that achieved that, but Brickshelf is currently down. I'll respost it somewhere else.

Edited August 29, 2014 by jtlan

[jtlan]

Well, Brickshelf appears to be back up, but just in case:

6W at the splashers, 7W at the cab, and (7 studs + 1/2 plate)W at the footplate. Now with no gaps under the splasher.

[Redimus]

You got the LDD file so I can have a closer look?

[jtlan]

You got the LDD file so I can have a closer look?

I'll post it when I get back to my other computer. Nothing too fancy there, it's just the 1x2-1x4 bracket on a 6W frame instead of a 7W one.

[Lazarus]

I will be going over this on my days off, so will show you guys some of my changes. I do like Jtlan changes.

[jtlan]

LDD file on Brickshelf. Hope it holds up. One of the other nice things about moving everything in is that the splashers are now set inwards from the cab wall, which they are on the prototype.

[Redimus]

Hmm, looking at this photo of the prototype, I think I need to at least lengthen the front of the engine so there is more of an overhang, and possibly put a little bit more space between the wheels too.

[jtlan]

155mm/plate (387.5mm/stud or ~15in/stud) scaling drawing, if you're curious how I checked dimensions:

Full size.

[Redimus]

So, I've been playing with my original design, and have got to a point where, apart from the boiler, I'm reasonably happy with it... if I was modeling in 8 wide. Having studied some more prototype photos, it looks to me that the running plate should be the 7 stud point, not the cab/tender. I'm gonna take a closer look at jtlan's work, see what I can learn, but I think I'm going to end up with a slightly simplified/1 stud less wide version of the existing design (although I'm still probably going to do something about the boiler, the current one looks nice, but is in no way big enough). I also still feel the loco is too short, I'll probably add an extra stud in between the driving wheels. As for the tender, I will probably shorten it by a stud, and am still considering trying to do a representation of the frames (although that'd probably be something I'd do after the initial real world construction so I can work out how much of the frames I can get away with representing.

Notes on the current version:

The chimney will be held together either by a chopped up bit of tube or a choped up bit of the bar used to hold track together in package.

Handrails will be shortened tubes.

I am considering experimenting with chopping off the ends of the levers on either side of the boiler and feeding them into a tube to create the look of the bend pipe that existes either side of the real thing.

A shortened length of tube will be used ot represent the brake handles either side of the open truck (and any other future short wheelbase wagons I design.

The tiles next to the brakevan will be clipped on either side to form the foot boards.

[ScotNick]

Have a look at the lxf I added. It's an approach to make the smaller boiler slightly larger.

Engine.lxf

[Lazarus]

Looking at the pics, I would say the boiler from the cab to nose should be at least 20 studs long.

[Redimus]

Hmm, I'm not sure it'd be that long.

Anyway, time for version 2.

I'm not too keen with the larger smokebox, the difference in size is too big, and the dish used for the smokebox door too small, so I'll probably make 2 more boilers, one completely the original size, the other completely based on ScotNick's idea. I'll also experiment with the height they sit at, I feel this one may sit a plate too high.

[Redimus]

Well, it's not perfect, and there's a lot of fudges employed to ensure it looks OK in Lego, even if it isn't all that accurate, but I think I'm gonna call it now.

If anybody wants to tinker with it, here's the LDD File, and here's a selection of boiler ideas to play with. The disassembled one is the one used by the previous version of the second build (larger smokebox).

[zephyr1934]

I doubt many could spot the imperfections unless you pointed them out. The trucks look great too, a very clever little build.

[Redimus]

Cheers.

Well the bits are ordered (including rods from your establishment). Hopefully it'll be ready to go within the next few weeks!

The trucks (plus a few more I haven't yet designed) are to follow.

[jtlan]

This might be a bit late, but a final thought on how you might get the "enlarged smokebox":

Rather than make the smokebox larger, a similar visual effect is created by making the boiler slightly smaller.

Note also that if you make the cab 7-wide you preserve the visual detail of the cab being wider than the splashers.

I feel like a lot of the visual oddness in this model comes from the fact that the frame is a couple plates too tall, but there isn't much we can do about that, as the splashers have to be entirely above the wheels...