Boiler Issues

[Redimus]

I've decided to make a set of Southern Railway (ish) 7 wide (ish) freight wagons and a loco to go with, and to that end, I wanted something fairly simple to model while I get the hand of 7 wide building (so far, it's a b******d). I've selected the Maunsell Q class 0-6-0 tender engines and so far, it's all going OK (after a lot of farting around getting the footplate to match along the whole engine without fouling the driving wheels).

The Prototype.

Progress so far.

Unfortunately, I'm really having some issues with the boiler. I've tried using the 4 wide round parts, but there seems to be no obvious way to connect them to the front and back without some ugly gaps and too many compromises.

Do you guys have any suggestions as to how I could make that work?

Alternatively, I'm gonna try the 5 stud wide cheese wedge built boiler I've seen online, but I'm not entirely sold on that either.

Also, does anybody have a suggestion on 2 similar methods to build a boiler I could combine to show the slightly wider smokebox?

[legoman666]

I'd recommend using the 2 x 4 x 2/3 curved bricks you've already used, but continue round in a full circle with them. To get details in, you can use 11477 http://www.bricklink.com/catalogItem.asp?P=11477 and 15068 http://www.bricklink.com/catalogItem.asp?P=15068 and cheese.

It'll yield a boiler that is about 5 wide, which is the perfect width for a 7 wide locomotive.

[jtlan]

7W is notoriously tricky to build in. However, I think it produces pretty excellent models, and it's a good choice for British locos and rolling stock in particular.

You could SNOT the whole boiler, using 85080 to build a round boiler, but I'm not sure how you'd do the smokebox end. Using curve slopes to build up the rounded shape of the boiler makes sense to me.

Related: It might also make sense if you use the curved slopes (93273 and 11377) for the "wheel wells" (not sure what that part of the locomotive is actually called) rather than the cheese slopes you currently have there.

Edited August 20, 2014 by jtlan

[Redimus]

I've considered all of those and while it gives a better curve, it also renders a larger boiler, this isn't *that* big of an engine, and while it doesn't really matter as long as I looks OK on the loco, as I build more locos, oddly large boilers on smaller locos will become more obvious (and although I probably will end up rebuilding old locos, I'd rather not plan to do that in advance!).

Anyway, it's not perfect, but here's what I've come up with using cheese wedges (with a fair bit of help from google image search and flickr):

And, because why not, a look inside the cab:

I need to do a detailed how to for this boiler type at some point, even with the pictorial help online, I still needed to work it out myself before I could use it. Before I do that though, I need to make sure it actually works!

[jtlan]

Looking good! Mad props for the use of the flower piece for valve knobs. I'd probably use 1x2 cheese slopes instead of 1x1 to cut down on the lines showing on the boiler; You can turn on the "Outline on bricks" option in LDD (under "preferences"), which gives a more accurate representation of what the model will look like in real life (because it enhances the lines between bricks).

Also, I hate to break this to you, but 1x1 round tiles are not available in black. Maybe try this piece instead?

Edited August 20, 2014 by jtlan

[Redimus]

That's rather surprising. I'll just use a yellow one, pretend it's part of the pipe.

And yeah, I probably should use the 2x1 cheese wedge! The only real issue I have is I've this method used, with the smokebox door pretty much perfectly central, and I can't work out how they've done it. I have also toyed with using the flat round plate instead of the radar dish (the original's door is pretty flat, I just wish they did a tile version so it didn't have all the studs sticking out.

[jtlan]

That's rather surprising. I'll just use a yellow one, pretend it's part of the pipe.

??? I was referring to the tiles on the buffers...

The only real issue I have is I've this method used, with the smokebox door pretty much perfectly central, and I can't work out how they've done it.

There's probably some interesting SNOT going on to get the dish exactly centered (1/5 stud offsets, etc); similar tricks have to be done on 4W boilers. Can you show me what's behind the smokebox door?

[Redimus]

I forgot they ere there as well, I've used one to make it appear the robot yellow robot arm (representing a bent pipe coming from the boiler) is connected to the footplate. I'll just used dark grey for the buffers, I think anything larger looks too big.

As for the smokebox door:

I've tried moving the attachment point one plate's thickness lower, but it looks, if anything worse.

[Redimus]

Ohh! Worked it out!

Left, in place and side view, right, finished article!

[jtlan]

Ohh! Worked it out!

I was about to comment that it needed to be 1/2 a plate lower, but you figured it out. Looks like it's coming together nicely. Have you tried something slightly thinner for the smokestack? Maybe the barbell piece or a small tire wrapped around a 1x1 round brick. It also seems like the 2x2 round with tile on top would be a closer depiction of the steam dome.

The 1x1 round tile is not available in dark grey either … but it comes in "pearl dark grey". List of available colors (under "lots for sale"). I ran into this problem before, wound up just using 1x1 round plates.

[Redimus]

Yeah, the chimney and dome do need looking at again. I kinda just whacked em on as place holders whilst I got on with he more difficult bits.

[zephyr1934]

That is looking really good so far. I've used the cheese slope trick on several boilers and I think it works well in black.

7W is notoriously tricky to build in. However, I think it produces pretty excellent models, and it's a good choice for British locos and rolling stock in particular.

...

Related: It might also make sense if you use the curved slopes (93273 and 11377) for the "wheel wells" (not sure what that part of the locomotive is actually called) rather than the cheese slopes you currently have there.

I don't know, you just have to turn your head inside out and then 7 wide starts making sense (grin). Coming back to reality though, I would agree that the curved slopes would look better over the driver wheels.

Ohh! Worked it out!

...

Left, in place and side view, right, finished article!

Another solution would be a pair of headlight bricks. The first in place of the pair of pink plates on one side of the opening, with the "top" of the brick pointing to the side of the boiler. Then the second headlight brick with it's "side" stud inserted into the "bottom" of the first headlight brick with the "top" stud pointing forward, where the red 1x1 plate is.

[Redimus]

Done some of the tweeks suggested by you guys.

I think it's close to being considered done for now, although I probably won't be investing in actual brick until next month.

The tire used for the chimney is held on using a single stud at the moment, not sure if that'll work IRL (I had to kinda trick LDD to achieve it), I'll probably have to use 2 rather than one. I could have used the 1x1 round brick, but I didn't like the stud sticking our on top.

[JopieK]

Very nice train! It just looks great. Motorising it will be difficult though I think?

[Murdoch17]

What about this part for the funnel:

From BL (and in black of course!)

Part listing: http://www.bricklink...tem.asp?P=75535

Does this help?

Edited August 21, 2014 by Murdoch17

[Redimus]

JopieK, already motorised, standard 9v rail powered motor under the tender.

Murdock17, I considered that, and it looked rather good, but it doesn't fit the relatively short and fat chimney of the prototype.

[Paperballpark]

Looking very good! A couple of thoughts strike me:

First, I'd use this piece (http://www.bricklink...tem.asp?P=41239) in black as a connecting rod for the wheels (although I accept it's a bit bulky).

Secondly, do you have one of the tender axles 'floating'? If not, it ain't gonna go around curves without de-railing!

EDIT: Actually, come to think of it, I'm pretty sure your tender is too close to the engine to go around curves anyway.

Edited August 21, 2014 by Paperballpark

[jtlan]

Something's been bothering me about the proportions of the locomotive for a while, and I think I figured it out:

It's too wide.

Specifically, it's actually 8-wide at the footplate now, and the splashers are at 7-wide. Consequently, the footplate looks too wide relative to the boiler. If you can move everything in slightly, such that it's 6-wide at the splashers and the edges of the footplate are closer to 7-wide, I think that will improve things.

[Redimus]

Looking very good! A couple of thoughts strike me:

First, I'd use this piece (http://www.bricklink...tem.asp?P=41239) in black as a connecting rod for the wheels (although I accept it's a bit bulky).

Secondly, do you have one of the tender axles 'floating'? If not, it ain't gonna go around curves without de-railing!

EDIT: Actually, come to think of it, I'm pretty sure your tender is too close to the engine to go around curves anyway.

Con Rod: I'll use a set of the custom ones zephyr produces.

Tender axles: The rear wheel is permanently attached to the tender, the other wheels (the motor) pivot, so making it around the curves *should* be OK. If it doesn't work, I have a plan B.

Tender coupling: Yeah, I'm aware the tender is probably too close (although the fact it's attached to the already pivoting powered wheels may or may not help), I just need to swap out what kind of Technic bar connects the two halves of the tender coupling to make it fit round curves. The advantage with this design is it allows it to look nice and close coupled when merely on display.

Something's been bothering me about the proportions of the locomotive for a while, and I think I figured it out:

It's too wide.

Specifically, it's actually 8-wide at the footplate now, and the splashers are at 7-wide. Consequently, the footplate looks too wide relative to the boiler. If you can move everything in slightly, such that it's 6-wide at the splashers and the edges of the footplate are closer to 7-wide, I think that will improve things.

Hmmm. My plan was to make the main 'bulk' (ie cab and tender) 7 wide, and allow some bits to be wider, which I've achieved. It took a *lot* of work to get the footplate right so it was consistent along the whole engine and tender and allowed for the very slight plate along the side of the tender. It's possible I could move the splashers (wheel arches?) further in to be a little bit more in line with the wheels, I'm not sure that it would overall improve the look. Fix one thing, break several more things. The other problem is keeping the footplate strong enough to be viable and still clearing the wheels. This is something I will be able to experiment with more when I build it in real Lego (clearances aren't always perfect on LDD).

------------------------

The main thing I would like to fix is the smokebox door. I had hoped to make it flat (like the prototype) and have a handrail of some sort (like the prototype) and it just doesn't seem to work no matter how I try it.

[Steinkopf]

I considered that, and it looked rather good, but it doesn't fit the relatively short and fat chimney of the prototype.

With the chimney I have used a Black Palm Tree Trunk piece http://www.bricklink.com/catalogItemIn.asp?P=2536&colorID=11&in=A on a couple of my steam locos and it looks very effective, there are still a decent number left on Bricklink and they are relatively inexpensive.

[Redimus]

Again, I don't think it's wide enough, but that is an excellent potential chimney for future projects.

[Lazarus]

Boiler still looks two small good bolier to copy is the good old Lego EN one as it is quite fat and fits well on a 7wide body. Yes the cab needs to be 7 wide.

Looking at the real life pics of the train, with scaling down it looks to be about 1 stud between the bolier and the edge of the loco.

I think add 1 stud more width and hight to the bolier, lose the 2 plates added with on the sides and bring the cab to 7 wide and you will be spot on.

You are almost 8 wide with the added plates on the sides. 7 wide is hard to get right but i think looks the best, 8 tends to look a bit fat for 6 wide wheels.

I would love the LXF on this so I could mod it a bit.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Lazarus

[Pizzareno]

I like the overall look of this locomotive. I think you have done a great job.

I find though when you are building it is more important to get the overall look right and things like the width and so forth can be excused because the locomotive just looks right even though the scale is out or the splashers aren't quite in line or whatever.

Anywho that is my 2c worth. I look forward to seeing it in real bricks.

[zephyr1934]

I like the look and how it is progressing. To my eye the tire looks too large for the boiler though, here are a few alternatives you might consider...

is promising because it has the ring around the top, but they are stupid expensive and it is a little too small.

is about the right size (flipped upside down) but not the right shape.

is about the right size if you flipped it over and even better if you could find something to give you the ring.

this MIGHT do for the ring on the sauce pan... but probably not

has a good shape and size (I think it would fit a half pin in the hole), but the fez is probably better shape for similar size.

or with a something in the middle to hide the cracks, but I have no idea how you could attach them

or but again I don't know how you could attach them.

[jtlan]

or but again I don't know how you could attach them.

He could SNOT the 1x4 axle holder in the boiler?