New way to control LEGO trains?!

[JopieK]

Position and automatic play of many simultaneous trains

An AFOL Group in the LEGO Community has asked us to provide as wide as possible the same facilities with positionng and radio control for LEGO trains as we demonstrate for Model Trains and Faller Cars. The project was initiated autum 2013 and the prototypes of the trains with these facilities build in were demonstrated in Nuremberg 2014. The trains can operate using exact the same PC- and Position system as well as tablets and smartphones and voice for control. Multiple trains can operate together, will be positioned on the screen, and will run automations, stop for signals and obey all other manual or automatic commands.

The total system including the control of the turnouts and the signals is expected to be finished in April 2014.

But right now already a great play is available. It all works without disturbing any standard LEGO components. You can still run the train using your normal IR-controller.

http://www.gamesontr...icleGuid=164203

I like the concept, it will be pricy I think and it has been April already :)

[ronenson]

I also like the concept, but I can't seem to find anything more than the text you pasted. Do you know more?

[JopieK]

There was an brief article in "Railhobby" (April issue), a Dutch model railroad magazine. They have a bridge between IR and the radio modules, very smart, that way you don't need to modify any LEGO except maybe a connector to get the GPS module powered. The system is also usable for Mindstorms and model railroads.

The concept was explained here as well:

http://www.masterpiece.dk/UploadetFiles/10495/1/GB_20_januar.pdf

[F0NIX]

Anyone else than me that have got this system?

I got it just a few days ago and even if I had watched all the movies on YouTube that show how easy it is to set up, I was very surprised over how easy it actually was to set up.

I don't have a lot of room here at home and the train layout will not be up permanent and it will change often and it will be small. But I also want to take this system with me on exhibitions for larger layouts.

I have now 3 satellite receivers, 4 train transmitters (for controlling the trains), one servo controller that control two turnout servo-switches and two signal points (each with one green and one red led).

I have already got so far that I have set up my first automation that run the passenger train into the "station-area" and stop it there for 15 seconds before it continues while other trains can run around free. And they will never crash :)

I have just put up a crappy video of my first test:

Edited September 20, 2014 by F0NIX

[Rail Co]

So it is out! It seems extremely expensive $300! @F0NIX would you say it is worth your money?

Thanks

-RailCo

[v6TransAM]

That's pretty cool.

But I will stick with my telekinesis for now

[F0NIX]

I absolutely think it is worth the money. You can start low and build on it so you can get the functions you wants.

You can start with the base system with just the controller and one train transmitter. Then you can add more train transmitters later. And after that you can add the positioning system to be able to see the track and make things happen based on where the trains are. I have also added the mobile license to be able to control it from the iPad.

I have for long time tried to make an automation system for LEGO trains with LEGO Mindstorms. I tried different techniques to identify the trains from each other so I could send ONLY the passenger train into the station and not the cargo train. But those system was either going too big and ruin the design of the trains or they was too slow and not stable enough. I tried using barcodes that was read by a lightsensor on the side of the track. But the barcodes had to be big to be able to read them in high speed. They needed to be inside a tunnel or something that shielded them from other lights to make the reading more reliable. You could have the lightsensor below the track but then the track had to be elevated and still inside a tunnel. I also tried the LEGO RFID system but it also was too slow and I had to go really close with the reader to get an ID from the train. Could only get stable reading on speed 2 on the trains...

You can make an automation for trains without identifying the trains and just make things happens each a train passes a specific point on the track. But that was no fun for me and not what I was looking for.

The GamesOnTrack system have all the functions I was looking for and more :)

My next step would probably expanding with more satellite receivers and more servo/light signal controller in the future. Then it can handle even larger layouts.

[MaineBrickFan]

Sounds great. As somebody without any mind storms or DCC experience I am very interested in an intuitive, versatile system that can be implemented out of the box. This seems like a potential solution. Very interested to hear of others who have tried this system.

[F0NIX]

Here is another video from the little layout we in Brikkelauget have put up at the LEGO Build The Change event held in Tromsø.

The layout is a bit small so I have only set up two trains. dI have also programmed some automations that runs the trains so the passenger trains first goes into the big station and stays there for 14 second. Meanwhile the cargo train gets red light at the carco station for 7 second and then continues around the outer track. When the passenger train is on its way out from station, all other trains before the switch gets a stop signal. But if one other train is at the actual switch the passenger trains gets a wait signal until the other train has passed. Then the passenger train goes all the way up to the little station by the tram and stop there for 5 second before it continues. All trains have programmed in a safety distance in front and rear of the locomotive and will thus never crash into the rear of a slower driving train.

You can download the Games On Track software (GT-Command) for a 30 day trail and test it out as much as you like. After the trail period you need to buy a license to keep using the program. You don't need all the hardware to test it out as the program can run virtually on a pre-recorded layout that you also can download from the GOT homepage.

[codefox421]

Very nice automation. What is the hardware needed for a setup like this?

[F0NIX]

Very nice automation. What is the hardware needed for a setup like this?

In addition to the LEGO PowerFunction trains with the PF motor, IR-receiver and battery box, you need the following:

* GT-command starter kit for LEGO trains. This include one transmitter for the trains and one controlbox with software.

* Then you need one GT-Xcontrol IR unit for each additional train you want to control.

* To get the positioning data to be able to draw a tracklayout and make automations happens from point on the track you need the GT-position Upgrade package that contains two satellites. I bought one extra satellite for better coverage. I think I will buy a fourth satellite soon...

* I also have the GT-Xcontrol Servo package with two servos to be able to control to track switches (and it includes to two signal points with green and red LEDs).

This system can be expanded as you like with more switches or trains or satellites for larger layouts.

[Redimus]

It's great for automation, but can you use it to shunt in real time as well? I like the idea of having something run on the main line, with signal functions stopping in when the human controlled (assumedly via the tablet of PC) require use of the main line (or alternatively, have it pause the human commands until the mainline train passes).

EDIT: tl;dr... Does it let you actually play with your trains too?

Edited October 3, 2014 by Redimus

[F0NIX]

It's great for automation, but can you use it to shunt in real time as well? I like the idea of having something run on the main line, with signal functions stopping in when the human controlled (assumedly via the tablet of PC) require use of the main line (or alternatively, have it pause the human commands until the mainline train passes).

There are endless of possibilites as I see it. You can control the second port on the IR receiver to have lights on them or you can use it for an extra motor that physical disconnect a wagon from the locomotive. Then you can pick up a wagon and put it in another place and leave it there. You can also control other things than trains. If you have a crane beside the track you can control that too...

EDIT: tl;dr... Does it let you actually play with your trains too?

No! No! Playing is for Kids! This is for grown-ups :D

hehe... not sure what you mean by "play with your trains", do you mean push them manually? Yes I'can. And if I push a train out from the station when another train is arriving on the other lane, there may be a crash there if you have not programmed in something to prevent this from happening.

You do not need to set up automation either, you can control everythin "manually" on the computer or on the pad.

[Redimus]

Yeah, sorry, not very well worded... What a I meant was, did it allow you to decide on the cuff what the trains did, or did they have to be all fully pre-programmed, and you answered that perfectly well!

Is it compatible with 9v track powered trains (or alternatively, how much of a ball ache would it be to convert the 9v track powered motors to be compatible)?

[LoneBrickerSG]

I am with Redimus. He's asking, if you have three trains running under control by the GT system, can you assume direct control of one train and route it into a different track without affecting the other trains?

Scale model trains can do that for the purpose of "operating sessions" where users adhere to a schedule and have to stay clear of other traffic to complete their jobs.

[JopieK]

Together with a colleague I'm trying to get the bridge from the computer to my Arduino system done. The interface is already working, but sending messages to the system seems to be a bit a challenge :)

Scheduling will be indeed quite a challenge, but it is very doable. The combination of a "break up" layout and scheduling like I do is the most difficult, most model railroaders just have a fixed layout or larger modules.

[F0NIX]

Yeah, sorry, not very well worded... What a I meant was, did it allow you to decide on the cuff what the trains did, or did they have to be all fully pre-programmed, and you answered that perfectly well!

Is it compatible with 9v track powered trains (or alternatively, how much of a ball ache would it be to convert the 9v track powered motors to be compatible)?

I am not sure how you can control a 9v LEGO train with this system. The system I have is for LEGO PowerFunctions trains. But I believe the GOT system can control trains with DCC too. And I know a lot of LEGO trainfans use DCC to control their modified 9v LOEGO train. And with this GOT system in addition you will get the positioning data for each train.

Together with a colleague I'm trying to get the bridge from the computer to my Arduino system done. The interface is already working, but sending messages to the system seems to be a bit a challenge :)

Scheduling will be indeed quite a challenge, but it is very doable. The combination of a "break up" layout and scheduling like I do is the most difficult, most model railroaders just have a fixed layout or larger modules.

Controlling speed on a LEGO PF train is not dificult. That you can do with a LEGO Mindstorm with an IR-transmitter. The hard part as I see it, is to identify each train and get the positioning data from them

[JopieK]

Controlling speed on a LEGO PF train is not dificult. That you can do with a LEGO Mindstorm with an IR-transmitter. The hard part as I see it, is to identify each train and get the positioning data from them

I don't agree, detecting trains is very easy, using reed sensors for point detection and RFID for identification this is not an issue at all. Mindstorms is not a good solution since it is very expensive and too inflexible. I use Teensy 3.1 arduino derivates.

[F0NIX]

I am with Redimus. He's asking, if you have three trains running under control by the GT system, can you assume direct control of one train and route it into a different track without affecting the other trains?

Scale model trains can do that for the purpose of "operating sessions" where users adhere to a schedule and have to stay clear of other traffic to complete their jobs.

Yes, you can do this either by automations or by something they call "routes". I have not tried the Routes function yet. I have only had this GOT system for two weeks now so I don't know the details of every functions. But I have seen they have done exactly what you mention on some of their demo videos on youtube. Search for Games On Track on YouTube and you will find them there.

One other thing I have not mentioned before is that you also get voice control built in the software. So with a microphone on your computer you can activate all functions by your voice :)

[F0NIX]

I don't agree, detecting trains is very easy, using reed sensors for point detection and RFID for identification this is not an issue at all. Mindstorms is not a good solution since it is very expensive and too inflexible. I use Teensy 3.1 arduino derivates.

Ok, I have tried LEGO's versions of RFID bricks and the RFID-sensor for the Mindstorm and it is WAY too slow for the trains and the reading distance is too short. It may be better with a RFID solution you make yourself with other parts.

[JopieK]

Mindstorms is just not that good. It is suitable for building a FIRST LEGO League robot but not for controlling a lot of stuff like a LEGO railroad with more than one or two trains.

[F0NIX]

Mindstorms is just not that good. It is suitable for building a FIRST LEGO League robot but not for controlling a lot of stuff like a LEGO railroad with more than one or two trains.

How is it going with your train automation/control system?

The GamesOnTrack software has had some updates since last time I posted here. Many new functions. Much better graphics, and you can add your own graphics for each train. We now also have sound in the trains :)

I have also had a go on a large layout, but that was partly a failure but I learned a lot of the limitations on this system and what you have to do to get this to work on a large layout. This large layout (PKH2015) was built in a indoor football hall and the layout was shaped like a big T. There was no trouble controlling all the trains and the switches, but position data gave me some trouble. First off all it was not possible to mount the satellites in the ceiling over the layout since it was to high. So I made some "Radio towers" to get the satellites up in the air. They was around 1m high, but that was not enough since we had some huge and high buildings in the layout. The rule is that to get the best positioning data, the train has to see at least three of the satellites from any place on the track. But with high buildings close to the railway you will get some shadows if the satellites are low, and thus is not able to get positioning data from the train at those points, and even worse, the data you are getting is telling the system that the train is far off the track.

The solution is to hang the satellites high up over the layout, around 2m is ideal. The reach of each satellites is about 6-7 m, and we had a much larger layout than that so I also had to add more satellites to get the coverage just because of distances.

I also had some trouble adding extra satellites into the software. I need more practice there...

We also made the track a bit complicated and that did not help on the satellite coverage any better.

So my conclusion is this:

GOT system is really easy and good for small layouts.

On larger layouts you have to take care of a lot of things like coverage and range of the satellites.

Make the layout so that you have at least a few loops where trains can be routed into and run around without any control without danger to crashing into another train. Then you will also able to mix in other trains so that people without GOT train transmitters also can drive the trains on the track. But be careful when making automation, the GOT system can not detect other things on the track that does not have the transmitter and it is therefor not possible to run trains from the automation without danger of crashing into those things.

This weekend it is time for the "Build the change" LEGO event again and we are setting up a small train layout there again as last year. After that I will report back here what more I learned about GOT and what it can do.

[marook]

Sounds great...

Now, if they would make a BT LE module so they could command SBricks.. :-D

That IR stuff is just too limited...

[AlmightyArjen]

Sounds great indeed!

[dr_spock]

Interesting. Maybe wind turbines can be a good place hide the LEDs too. Can you add additional IR LEDs to the satellites for more power?