Ninjago: Masters Of Spinjitsu TV Show Thread

[Kalhiki]

So, not sure if anyone has mentioned, but Jay Vincent does it again. "The Final Battle" has been uploaded to his site.

Haven't really been giving my thoughts on the episodes, but overall, the series was great. This was one of few shows I actually got excited for every week there was a new episode. It was charming, had a great story, and great characters. Honestly, my least favorite part was Misako. I hated her. I get that she's Lloyd's mom and all, but she really did nothing. And the use of the scrolls just seemed like a cheap excuse for the Ninja to get information.

As for the end, it was a great and suitable climax. Loved the symbolism with the Overlord eating the Golden Dragon and then the Golden Dragon bursting out with the scene change of the city being flooded with light. Great way to show the Overlord's defeat and the purge of evil. And Dareth using the helmet was great. Really did give him more of a role than just the funny guy.

On a side note, the scene where the Overlord is growing wings was kinda creepy... Just sayin'.

Kalhiki

[Aanchir]

So, not sure if anyone has mentioned, but Jay Vincent does it again. "The Final Battle" has been uploaded to his site.

Haven't really been giving my thoughts on the episodes, but overall, the series was great. This was one of few shows I actually got excited for every week there was a new episode. It was charming, had a great story, and great characters. Honestly, my least favorite part was Misako. I hated her. I get that she's Lloyd's mom and all, but she really did nothing. And the use of the scrolls just seemed like a cheap excuse for the Ninja to get information.

As for the end, it was a great and suitable climax. Loved the symbolism with the Overlord eating the Golden Dragon and then the Golden Dragon bursting out with the scene change of the city being flooded with light. Great way to show the Overlord's defeat and the purge of evil. And Dareth using the helmet was great. Really did give him more of a role than just the funny guy.

On a side note, the scene where the Overlord is growing wings was kinda creepy... Just sayin'.

Kalhiki

I wouldn't say Misako did nothing. In the very least she was the driving force behind character development for Wu, Garmadon, and Lloyd for the last seven episodes. And while that is pretty much the definition of a satellite character (existing only to drive the character development of the "main cast"), it was enough to make her scenes very enjoyable for me.

Perhaps part of the problem was that in a way she was somewhat "mary-sue-ish". She didn't really have any significant flaws of her own, and so there were really no personal challenges she had to overcome. But at the same time, this could also be said of Nya. I imagine part of it was that with so few female characters, the writers felt pressured to make the ones they had as badass as possible. But as a consequence those characters got even less plot involvement than they would have gotten if some flaws had been given to them.

Naturally, of course, I'm not surprised the writers took this route. After all, The Legend of Korra has a central character who's very badass-- but when her flaws came to the forefront a lot of fans started to say she was "whiny". I imagine six-to-eleven-year-old boys might jump to the same conclusions if the episodes started to feature plotlines that were focused on the personal challenges of the female characters. That is, if they weren't already turned off by episodes in which the female characters, not the male Ninja, played a central role.

Hopefully Chima will be able to do better by its female characters. It has more of them, which might give it a slight advantage... or it might mean that each gets less screen time. We'll have to see, but I know Ninjago managed to acquire a lot of fangirls and I think TLG owes some good characterization to its female characters for that periphery demographic's sake.

[Kalhiki]

You bring up good points. Yeah, I guess she did do something to drive the plot, but I'm still bothered by the scroll thing.

I was always wanting to yell at the TV "You have the scrolls and didn't explain everything in them!?". Or something like that. And like I said, it seemed like a cheap source for info. I mean, honestly, it seemed that every time the villains did something, Misako comes along and says "We can counter attack because the scrolls say such-and-such".

I know I may be overreacting, but it just kinda got annoying. I'd rather watch the Ninja do some snooping and eavesdrop on Garmadon. Because, y'know, they're ninja and can be sneaky.

But still. Minor issue compared to all the rest the show had to offer.

Kalhiki

[Speedza-Demon]

Probably one of the main things that bothered me was how tacked-on Zane's creator joining the team felt. The episode he joined in was pretty much filler regardless, and he never contributed anything to the team besides building the drill and crashing the Bounty, both of which could have been done by Nya, and at times it felt like he and Misako were taking spotlight away from her since they had such similar skill-sets. That being said, I still love the series and these issues are pretty minor. The Rise of the Snakes is still my favorite just because it focused on the characters more rather than what they did, as Character Development didn't seem to be a huge focus later in the series.

[Kai NRG]

Probably one of the main things that bothered me was how tacked-on Zane's creator joining the team felt...

I agree, nothing really happened in that episode that made much of a difference in future episodes - I think LEGO should have made the ninja return to Ninjago on the back of the seaserpent -then, once there, they could easially get their dragon and start flying (and Lloyd could have crossed over in the mech). Oh well.

... Honestly, my least favorite part was Misako. I hated her. I get that she's Lloyd's mom and all, but she really did nothing. And the use of the scrolls just seemed like a cheap excuse for the Ninja to get information...

Kalhiki

Not so much that she did nothing, but more like everything she did seemed either like it could have easially been done by someone else (reading scrolls? Zane can do that!), or was really a drag to the team (like her going back for her research). And how come it always took her until the very last miniute to finally understand what the scroll meant?

[Flipz]

Naturally, of course, I'm not surprised the writers took this route. After all, The Legend of Korra has a central character who's very badass-- but when her flaws came to the forefront a lot of fans started to say she was "whiny". I imagine six-to-eleven-year-old boys might jump to the same conclusions if the episodes started to feature plotlines that were focused on the personal challenges of the female characters. That is, if they weren't already turned off by episodes in which the female characters, not the male Ninja, played a central role.

That's a sign that we need to raise our children better. I understand that TLG responds the way it does, they're a company, they have to do what they have to do to make money. Still, it's disappointing that in today's world, this sort of attitude is still accepted and used by writers.

Actually, now that I think of it, this goes back to the ongoing debate of "doing it for the art" or "doing it for the money"; if someone's making a movie or a TV show for the art, they're going to send out the message they want to send out regardless of the profit margin (well, to a degree, anyway), whereas if they're doing it for the money, they'll avoid ideas and plotlines that may cause dissention--or, heavens forbit, intelligent analysis and discussion--among fans. The "rise of the snakes" arc seemed to be more about "doing it for the art", focusing on developing the characters rather than showcasing individual set elements or advancing the plot to rush ahead to the finale; the post-Devourer stuff that came before the Stone Army episodes was even moreso "doing it for the art". After the stone army was introduced, though, all of a sudden we were stuck on immovable plot rails, and characterization was shoved to the side in favor of plot, so we could "hurry up and wait" for the Final Battle; aside from the Bounty and the Ultra Dragon, almost everything focused on the new sets and characters, to "sell toys" instead of "build the world".

[Aanchir]

That's a sign that we need to raise our children better. I understand that TLG responds the way it does, they're a company, they have to do what they have to do to make money. Still, it's disappointing that in today's world, this sort of attitude is still accepted and used by writers.

A big part of being a writer (or any type of creative professional) is knowing your audience. So girl-oriented TV shows focus heavily on female characters who the audience will most likely be able to relate to, and boy-oriented shows focus heavily on male characters who the audience will most likely be able to relate to. Adult-oriented programming is a lot less heavily "gendered", in part because the audience has developed enough to identify with characters of the opposite sex at at least some level. And occasionally there are excellent shows like A:TLA and TLoK that can appeal to a wide enough audience that they don't have to constrain themselves to the biases of one audience. But in general, it's bad practice to write a show that will alienate its audience, because it will likely end up unsuccessful (i.e. bad from a business perspective) and unappreciated (bad from an artistic perspective). For this reason writing and design typically have to follow the prevailing culture, not fight against it-- it's only occasionally that you encounter people who have both the willingness to take such risks and the skill and expertise to make them work.

Actually, now that I think of it, this goes back to the ongoing debate of "doing it for the art" or "doing it for the money"; if someone's making a movie or a TV show for the art, they're going to send out the message they want to send out regardless of the profit margin (well, to a degree, anyway), whereas if they're doing it for the money, they'll avoid ideas and plotlines that may cause dissention--or, heavens forbit, intelligent analysis and discussion--among fans. The "rise of the snakes" arc seemed to be more about "doing it for the art", focusing on developing the characters rather than showcasing individual set elements or advancing the plot to rush ahead to the finale; the post-Devourer stuff that came before the Stone Army episodes was even moreso "doing it for the art". After the stone army was introduced, though, all of a sudden we were stuck on immovable plot rails, and characterization was shoved to the side in favor of plot, so we could "hurry up and wait" for the Final Battle; aside from the Bounty and the Ultra Dragon, almost everything focused on the new sets and characters, to "sell toys" instead of "build the world".

I somewhat disagree; I think that the whole LEGO Ninjago series was fairly consistent in balancing "doing it for the art" and "doing it for the money". I do agree that there might have been somewhat more "doing it for the art" in the first half of the final season, since it seemed to be the writers' chance to freely explore ideas rather than focus on advertising sets. At the same time, I wouldn't say that this part of the series was necessarily better as a result. It wasn't a huge disappointment to me, but until "The Stone Army", Lloyd's training was the only thing giving these episodes a clear sense of direction. Afterwards, however, the prospect of the final battle turned from a vague sense of inevitability into a genuine source of suspense, as you could clearly witness the Ninja and Garmadon alike advancing steadily toward that ultimate confrontation.

Also, let's not forget the episode "The Last Voyage". Despite appearing after the Stone Army was introduced, it did hardly a thing to promote any of the sets (the Destiny's Bounty was the only vehicle featured in any substantial capacity). And yet I can't say being disconnected from the sets made it a particularly stronger episode than the ones before and after it.

I can't say the second half of the final season was any less artistic than the previous season. After all, even in the Serpentine arc, the plot moved forward very deliberately-- first the awakening of the five Serpentine tribes, then the search for the four fang blades and the quest to unlock the Ninja's true potential, and finally the awakening of the Great Devourer. Some episodes that did not focus strictly on existing sets still focused heavily on things that had been imagined as potential sets during the writing process-- for instance, Lloyd's Treehouse Fortress. And even the brilliant character-driven episodes in which the Ninja unlocked their true potential were essentially promoting the Ninja's NRG spinner sets by framing them as part of an epic narrative rather than just presenting them as yet another costume.

[PenPlays]

The first half (the lesser half) of Season 2 has been released on S@H. Only the first seven episodes for $14.99 and no bonus features. That's $2 more than the complete first season!

[Tobias_Jay]

Yeah, I'm starting to regret my decision to collect by volume approach. *sigh* But did the cover have Fangtom on the front cover? Because I saw that in a Kmart catalogue but couldn't find it. I hope that volume 2 of season 2 comes before Christmas.

[Aanchir]

Yeah, I'm starting to regret my decision to collect by volume approach. *sigh* But did the cover have Fangtom on the front cover? Because I saw that in a Kmart catalogue but couldn't find it. I hope that volume 2 of season 2 comes before Christmas.

There will allegedly be a Complete Season Two DVD next year, if you prefer to wait.

[PenPlays]

Cover is just a zoomed in Green Ninja face. The back has only card art rather than episode stills, the largest being of Pythor.

Apparently retailers have it priced differently that S@H does, because I bought the DVD last night for only $10. All that is on there is Darkness Shall Rise through Stone Army. No bonus features for certain, and no previews.

On another subject, does anybody think that the complete series set will include the six shorts after the pilot? It has me curious, because the only DVD to include half of them was the Lego Club TV disc from last year, The half of the episodes that have nothing to do with the story (None of the Wu/Garmadon mini-sodes)

[Tobias_Jay]

On another subject, does anybody think that the complete series set will include the six shorts after the pilot? It has me curious, because the only DVD to include half of them was the Lego Club TV disc from last year, The half of the episodes that have nothing to do with the story (None of the Wu/Garmadon mini-sodes)

Volume 1 of season 1 had all six of the mini-episodes as a bonus feature, whereas the others had no special features surprisingly.

[PenPlays]

That's right, one if the DVDs had some of the shorts, but still not the best ones.

[Aanchir]

Cover is just a zoomed in Green Ninja face. The back has only card art rather than episode stills, the largest being of Pythor.

Apparently retailers have it priced differently that S@H does, because I bought the DVD last night for only $10. All that is on there is Darkness Shall Rise through Stone Army. No bonus features for certain, and no previews.

On another subject, does anybody think that the complete series set will include the six shorts after the pilot? It has me curious, because the only DVD to include half of them was the Lego Club TV disc from last year, The half of the episodes that have nothing to do with the story (None of the Wu/Garmadon mini-sodes)

Volume 1 of season 1 had all six of the mini-episodes as a bonus feature, whereas the others had no special features surprisingly.

Keep in mind that DVDs are distributed differently by region and even by country: none of the US DVDs have had any bonus features other than (inexplicably) the bloopers reel from LEGO Battles: Ninjago on the DVD of the pilot. Various European countries have done better in this regard, but those DVDs don't work in Region 1 DVD players.

I definitely hope that the complete series DVD and Blu-Ray collections will have more to offer than just the episodes... though to be fair, having the episodes in HD without any Cartoon Network branding lurking in the corner would be a treat in and of itself.

[Tobias_Jay]

Well I got mine in Australia, the cover has Skales and Kai lunging for the Hypnobrai staff with Cole faded in the background. But I didn't get the blooper reel in my copy of the pilot episodes. I'm hoping to see a behind the scenes bonus for the last DVD!

[PenPlays]

Guess what... My new DVD is defective! The sound is off on all the episodes (only the episodes)! Everything is a tad deeper, and now I have to go throught Target to get another one! If anyone has this fault in their DVD, I would love to be informed.

[Tobias_Jay]

Well isn't that... great. I really hate it when that happens.

[PenPlays]

Got a replacement... ITS THE WHOLE BATCH!

[Tobias_Jay]

Holy fruit loops, that's awesome! Merry early Christmas!

[Aanchir]

Holy fruit loops, that's awesome! Merry early Christmas!

I think he was saying "the whole batch of disks has that problem with the voices"... so no, not awesome.

[Tobias_Jay]

Oh whoops... awkward.

Edited December 16, 2012 by Wall E2624

[legognome]

Also, let's not forget the episode "The Last Voyage". Despite appearing after the Stone Army was introduced, it did hardly a thing to promote any of the sets (the Destiny's Bounty was the only vehicle featured in any substantial capacity). And yet I can't say being disconnected from the sets made it a particularly stronger episode than the ones before and after it.

I would like to point out that though it was somewhat of a filler episode I think they wanted to answer some questions but I feel like they answered the wrong ones.(i.e. where did the skeletons get their vehicles, I think everyone assumed they made them.)

The questions or plot problems I think should be adressed are

What happened to the anacondrai. Pythor said they must have all wasted away from starvation so why was pythor still alive did he eat them? He holds their staff but was he their leader or was it just because he was the last one left, also if they could waste away from starvation then why were the other snake tribes not all gone as well?

Also in season two when garmadon uses the mega weapon to turn back time on the dinosaur and in turn the ninja get yourger and all that, there is the scene where scales looks up at the picture of the snake warrior and the snake that was in the sarcophogus, they make a whole deal about that but never do anything with it. Since the dinosaur was revived and the snake warrior was in the same room why was he not revived as well. That would make a cool story plot and a much needed bad guy for season 3.

Also the mega weapon being destroyed really could use some clarity because of time travel arguments you could say that when the ninja returned to their time and lloyd never knew about the mega weapon then why was he still a teenager. Its a pretty big story flaw.

[PenPlays]

(1)I would like to point out that though it was somewhat of a filler episode I think they wanted to answer some questions but I feel like they answered the wrong ones.(i.e. where did the skeletons get their vehicles, I think everyone assumed they made them.)

The questions or plot problems I think should be adressed are

(2)What happened to the anacondrai. Pythor said they must have all wasted away from starvation so why was pythor still alive did he eat them? He holds their staff but was he their leader or was it just because he was the last one left, also if they could waste away from starvation then why were the other snake tribes not all gone as well?

(3)Also in season two when garmadon uses the mega weapon to turn back time on the dinosaur and in turn the ninja get yourger and all that, there is the scene where scales looks up at the picture of the snake warrior and the snake that was in the sarcophogus, they make a whole deal about that but never do anything with it. Since the dinosaur was revived and the snake warrior was in the same room why was he not revived as well. That would make a cool story plot and a much needed bad guy for season 3.

(4)Also the mega weapon being destroyed really could use some clarity because of time travel arguments you could say that when the ninja returned to their time and lloyd never knew about the mega weapon then why was he still a teenager. Its a pretty big story flaw.

Odd first post much?

Anyway, (I added numbers to you post for easy answering)

(1)The Skeleton Vehicle background was filler. It did not need any background. It was said Bonezai Created them. Simple as that. Now the former could be true, but he might not have designed them (in comes Dr. Julien)

(2)Eating was very much implied... I don't know how you missed that. He is self proclaimed leader of the Anacondrai simply because he is the only one left, and being that he alone is the entire tribe, decisions only require small thought. It was never addressed, however, if he was the leader before the consumed each other.

(3)It was never said that it was in the sarcophagus. It was a funny scene where the snakes reacted to how the people of Ninjago before the Serpentine returned thought of them. Only what was in Garmadon's line of fire got affected by the time spell, therefore anything touching the Grundle or within direct fire of the Mega Weapon were effected.

(4)Say the year Garmadon warped back in time was "year 6." He transported back to "year 5" and the Mega Weapon was destroyed. Being that the weapon was from "year 6" the weapon was destroyed the moment Garmadon warped back in time at "year 6" which was after Lloyd transformed into a teen. Meaning that everything that happened because of the Mega Weapon still would have occurred up until the time he time travelled.

Edited December 23, 2012 by Penkid11

[Kai NRG]

(4)Say the year Garmadon warped back in time was "year 6." He transported back to "year 5" and the Mega Weapon was destroyed. Being that the weapon was from "year 6" the weapon was destroyed the moment Garmadon warped back in time at "year 6" which was after Lloyd transformed into a teen. Meaning that everything that happened because of the Mega Weapon still would have occurred up until the time he time travelled.

I'd have to agree on that but Lloyd should still have known about the Mega Weapon. Not that I want to bring that discusion back. Just pointing out that there was a flaw there, though I don't see how any future episode could fill it.

I would like to point out that though it was somewhat of a filler episode I think they wanted to answer some questions but I feel like they answered the wrong ones.(i.e. where did the skeletons get their vehicles, I think everyone assumed they made them.)...

I always thought that episode (in general, the return of Zane's father) was extreamly pointless. Virtually the only thing he ever did that couldn't have easily been done by someone else was use the bounty to protect Lloyd. However, if there is a spotlight on Zane in another series/episode, then it would make a lot more sense.

[Tobias_Jay]

^ And he created the power drill, that played a massive role.