Transformers

[Vader]

Gotta agree with you Jinzo, the designs (of the cons at least) are way off. To me the new designs of megatron and starscream are just to far off the orignal look, prime and bumblebees looks are good and show how you can take and old look and update it for a new generation.

But the looks theyve given to the cons are just plain stupid and to me they all now look the same, what i love about the tf universe is that each tk looks different.

If the script isnt good then i fear this movie could be doomed.

[Jipay]

I read everywhere in this thread that the new characters look realistic. Are you blind people ? Those CGI will be so outdated in 6 months...

And I'm not a transformer fan at all. As for the pictures shown they don't appeal to me. A good robot needs some large plates on it. Here all the parts are small, making it, well... Weird.

Let's face it, when it comes to cool looking robots, Japanese people are the best. And we're clearly far away from those standards.

I have to agree with Jinzo and Vad, this movie will be something you'll find on dvd for 1 buck in a one year laptime.

[Mister Phes]

It wouldn't have been a crime to take the first G1 story, tweak it for present-day updates, then recreate the same characters in not a quite so messed up looking manner.

I agree with Michael Bay when he says the Transformer cartoon designs wouldn't work in a live action movie, but I don't agree with the way he and his and team have updated them. They've went so far the new designs look ridiculous.

There must be a way to retain more of the Transformers original appearance yet make them work in a physical environment. Perhaps a good starting point would have been 20th Anniversary Optimus Prime - greatly improved posability and less "blockiness" in robot mode. Now taking some liberties granted by film surely a competent designer could further develop this appearance to work in a live action movie...

Bleh... Its not because Mr Bay couldn't do it, its because he's not a true Transformers fan and didn't want to. X-D

[Vader]

Yeah there must of been someone out there that could of designed them as a sort of in between, its a shame as i think that its gonna hurt the film. A TF film needs all its fan base behind it but because of this i fear most fans will go into it already hating it. :-/

[Brainbox]

Not been on a TF forum in 9 months now...

Cold Turkey..?

Well, it didn't SEEM like Beast Wars was based inside the G1 universe, but, sure enough, by the series end all those original G1 heroes were found in it.

I'd forgotten about that. What I meant was, that everyone complained because the designs were nothing like before (with the exception of a couple of characters). All the 'truck not monkey' stuff.

Bear in mind that this isn't supposed to be a G1 movie per se. IDW successfully updated the designs for their G1 comic, but that worked because it was G1. This movie is based on the original story, but so were Armada and RID. No-one complained that they were too different when compared to G1, so what's the difference here. It's also worth noting that making a direct, exact G1 movie would have meant a lot of characters (Autobots especially). That may have alienated certain people, especially those who aren't hardcore fans. Now, I could recount all the original crew of the Ark, but could a lot of other people?

This movie is just a new re-imagining of a classic. Everyone has a favourite era, just as everyone has a favourite Doctor, or a favourite Star Trek. If these designs aren't your liking, fine, but I for one like them. It's a radical new angle I grant you, but it by no means replaces the original. Perhaps they aren't accurate, but lets be honest, neither were the original designs. At least in terms of science as we know it. Who knows, maybe Cybertron exists, and the inhabitants all look like this. You all stick to what you like.

I quite like the blockiness of Transformers, but I also like the new take. Perhaps it's worth giving it a try. Then if it's rubbish and doesn't work, fine.

EDIT: New UK Transformers comic info: http://www.titanmagazines.co.uk/titanmag/a...Product&sp=S919

[5150 Lego]

Ok, you're going to have to help me out here.

Exactly which of those parties you listed would have been alienated if they'd taken the original characters, kept their colors and heads, and updated their alt modes to modern objects?

I don't see how making the blocky old guys less blocky would cut off some large part of an audience.

Its not about complete alienation,its about trying to apeal to all those parties. I'm sure it wasn't the movie makers goal to piss off the fans. But i think it comes down to animation. As for using the same colors as the orginals, sorry, but that just wouldn't have worked with all the characters. Worked very well for Optimus Prime and Bumble Bee since there colors work very nice in vechile mode, but for some like star scream fdor example,that just wouldn't have worked. A blue/red/silver F-22? Don't think so.

There was another movie whose script was filled with cliche's and catchphrases.

It also had a "more realistic" redesign of the main character.

Thirdly, it also took a "humorous" approach.

It was called GODZILLA.

You say kids WANT that? That they even LIKE that?

Is that why Trendmasters, the company who got the license to produce figures for that movie nearly (or maybe they did) close up shop because NOONE wanted anything to do with that movie?

It was embarrassing. From script, from acting, to lame attempt at being "funny", to using only the highest of the high realistic special CGI effects on a character that was redesigned simply for the sake of being redesigned...

...and it was a freaking nightmare. And alot of people lost their jobs / lost their credibility over it.

I agree that Godzilla could have been alot better. But to be honest, i never saw that being a good idea anyways. Personally, i wheni think of godzilla ithink of a big rubbery lizard fighting other creatures. I think thats were they screwed up. Not cliche's and catchphrases. Nearly everymovie has that at somepoint.

And i don't think its fair to rule out horrible acting when all youv'e seen is the preview. Give it a chance.

There's evolution... that's what the fans would have loved.

Then there's pure bastardization. That's what's taking place.

You cannot tell me that keeping:

-most of the character's original colors in robot mode

-the robot's head

-a more faithful approach to the original story

-or the vibrant character expressed, the main attitudes, pecking order & ambitions of the main characters

...would mess up a new film. It just wouldn't. Exactly WHO would not be able to assimilate such a thing?

How is having all the robots looking like broken shards of metal supposed to create identification with a new audience?

I'm not saying that it would have messed up the movie. Again, its all about eveolution. I don't think that an of it is bastardization.

Nowi'm not saying everyting about this movie is perect. I do agree that some of the Tf designs could have been better. I agree with vader that the Autobots do look better than the Deceptacons. They seem to be closer to the "classic" designs than the rest.

I agree that "frenzy" could have been alot better, and i have to say i was disapointed that Megatron wasn't going to have his trademark "big gun". I do feel they messed up on that one. But for the most part i like the new designs. I'm not going to let a few mistakes ruin the movie for me.

I do understand your fustration, and where your coming from. I remember when the movie"DOOM" came out i was really excited. I'm a huge fan of the game, so i had high expedtaitons for the movie. Only to be commpletely let down. I almost walked out of the theater. Other than it taking place on mars and a few referances to some of the demons, it had nothing to do with "DOOM".

This movie may not be what fans were expecting, but i say again. Give it a chance before you pass full judgment.

I read everywhere in this thread that the new characters look realistic. Are you blind people ? Those CGI will be so outdated in 6 months...

Maybe, but for now its top notch. And when making a movie with CGI animation you need to be the top dog, whitch i think they've done a good job. As far as realistic,i think people are mainly refering to the movment of the robots.

[

[JINZONINGEN73]

This movie is based on the original story, but so were Armada and RID. No-one complained that they were too different when compared to G1, so what's the difference here.

A BIG difference. Those were just your regular, run of the mill, Japanese 1/2 hour toy commercial.

They're not easy to take seriously or as canon, for their budget and constrictive deadlines don't truly allow for 'greatness'.

Ah, but here's the movie to end all movies, with a budget to end all budgets, with advertising to end all advertising.

FINALLY< we get to see THE TRANSFORMERS on the big screen, live-action and showing the REST of the world what had us so excited for 25 years.

But it didn't happen. It's not happening.

And... and this is important in answer to your question... it probably WON'T happen now.

Aquiring a budget this large is something you rarely get twice. It's a one-shot, so you better not blow it.

It's blown.

It's also worth noting that making a direct, exact G1 movie would have meant a lot of characters (Autobots especially). That may have alienated certain people, especially those who aren't hardcore fans. Now, I could recount all the original crew of the Ark, but could a lot of other people?

I agree. Despite my love of the first few episodes, they were still toy commercials, painfully FORCING a bunch of characters and names down our throats.

The slimmer cast approach that this movie's taken definitely WAS a smart idea.

This movie is just a new re-imagining of a classic. Everyone has a favourite era, just as everyone has a favourite Doctor, or a favourite Star Trek. If these designs aren't your liking, fine, but I for one like them. It's a radical new angle I grant you, but it by no means replaces the original.

I dunno'... that new Doctor Who is kickin' megablocks and taking names on the old one. ;-)

Sure, I'll love Tom Baker till the end, but Chris Eccleston did one DAMN fine job of making Doctor Who exciting again. Unlike this movie, it's a case of an old franchise using it's modern budget positively and respectfully.

Now, on using Doctor Who as an example, you just stumbled on something else very important.

There WAS supposed to be a Steven Spielberg movie version of Doctor Who.

Take a WILD guess what the CGI Dalek concepts looked like that they got back from ILM?

The SAME shard-cluttered messes as these new Transformers.

I'm not sure if I still have the 2-second clip on this hard drive, or on my hard drive that got fried, but I'll describe it...

The Dalek was a floating probe-looking thing, and it transformed into a spidery thing with many arms... (VERY much like the probe droid sent to scout out Hoth in The Empire Strikes Back).

What we're seeing with Transformers is the same thing they were going to do to Doctor Who... shard-bots.

(If anyone else remembers / has a link to said clip, please post it.)

As for using the same colors as the orginals, sorry, but that just wouldn't have worked with all the characters. Worked very well for Optimus Prime and Bumble Bee since there colors work very nice in vechile mode, but for some like star scream fdor example,that just wouldn't have worked. A blue/red/silver F-22? Don't think so.

There's many a transforming toy in my many bins o' toys that have not the same color scheme in robot mode as in their alternate modes.

It could be done. It just wasn't.

[Brainbox]

Its not about complete alienation,its about trying to apeal to all those parties. I'm sure it wasn't the movie makers goal to piss off the fans. But i think it comes down to animation.

Besides, a lot of casual fans, or new fans may not know what the original bots looked like. For some, it's a whole new thing. It's about creating a fine balance between sticking with the original, and renovating it with a new twist.

As for using the same colors as the orginals, sorry, but that just wouldn't have worked with all the characters. Worked very well for Optimus Prime and Bumble Bee since there colors work very nice in vechile mode, but for some like star scream fdor example,that just wouldn't have worked. A blue/red/silver F-22? Don't think so.

Definately. After all, they are supposed to be 'robots in disguise.'

I do agree that some of the Tf designs could have been better. I agree with vader that the Autobots do look better than the Deceptacons. They seem to be closer to the "classic" designs than the rest.

I agree that "frenzy" could have been alot better, and i have to say i was disapointed that Megatron wasn't going to have his trademark "big gun". I do feel they messed up on that one. But for the most part i like the new designs. I'm not going to let a few mistakes ruin the movie for me.

True. But I guess the Decepticons were redesigned to be more visually striking and war-like. I mean, which is scarier; old Megs or new Megs?

A BIG difference. Those were just your regular, run of the mill, Japanese 1/2 hour toy commercial.

They're not easy to take seriously or as canon, for their budget and constrictive deadlines don't truly allow for 'greatness'.

Well, true as that is, I was making the point that it's different. If the characters are similar enough, and the storyline is good, who's to say that this movie won't be given it's ow, albeit different, slice of 'greatness.'

There WAS supposed to be a Steven Spielberg movie version of Doctor Who.

I think I remember hearing about this. Instead, a TV movie was made with a new Eighth Doctor, Paul McGann. That was different: a new Doctor, a new TARDIS, a new Master.

The Dalek was a floating probe-looking thing, and it transformed into a spidery thing with many arms... (VERY much like the probe droid sent to scout out Hoth in The Empire Strikes Back).

A bit like this, perhaps?

Only slightly more shard-y? If so, now re-used as a Spider Dalek.

[5150 Lego]

There's many a transforming toy in my many bins o' toys that have not the same color scheme in robot mode as in their alternate modes.

It could be done. It just wasn't.

If thats the case, then i think it was a very smart move NOT to include the old color scheme for those paticular bots. Sorry, but that would have looked to funny. Espeacailly for thoses not familar with TF. It may have worked for the cartoon 25 years ago, buti really don't see that fitting in on the big screen.

True. But I guess the Decepticons were redesigned to be more visually striking and war-like. I mean, which is scarier; old Megs or new Megs?

Very good point. Never thought of it that way.

[UltraPrime]

A BIG difference. Those were just your regular, run of the mill, Japanese 1/2 hour toy commercial.

They're not easy to take seriously or as canon, for their budget and constrictive deadlines don't truly allow for 'greatness'.

Ah, but here's the movie to end all movies, with a budget to end all budgets, with advertising to end all advertising.

FINALLY< we get to see THE TRANSFORMERS on the big screen, live-action and showing the REST of the world what had us so excited for 25 years.

But it didn't happen. It's not happening.

And... and this is important in answer to your question... it probably WON'T happen now.

Aquiring a budget this large is something you rarely get twice. It's a one-shot, so you better not blow it.

It's blown.

I'm afraid I couldn't disagree with you more. You can't dismiss Beast Wars/RID/Armada/Energon/Cybertron as mere toy commercials, and just assume TF:TM '07 SHOULD be a successor to G1. This is my biggest problem with TF fans (of which I have been since getting my first TF and issue 1 of comic back in 1984). I have NEVER seen the same reaction over the movie when all the other series started. It is now common practice to re-boot the mythos every few years, and no-one has ever been that bothered before! This is just the same as that - a new re-telling of the Transformers story, completely seperate to what has gone on before.

They have even put in G1 references to please the old-school fans, but most just seem to take this as a slap in the face. I am extremely enthusiastic about this film, and my kids can't wait - it is, after all, THEIR Transformers. I think we older fans must realise that the torch has been passed to the younger generation, and I for one can't wait to be in the cinema with my boys.

Ah, I feel better now :-)

[5150 Lego]

I am extremely enthusiastic about this film, and my kids can't wait - it is, after all, THEIR Transformers. I think we older fans must realise that the torch has been passed to the younger generation, and I for one can't wait to be in the cinema with my boys.

Ah, I feel better now :-)

Its funny. I just got a call today from my 11 year old nephew who saw the peview in Shrek 3. Ive never heard him so excited before! He asked if i could take him to see it. Oh couse i said yes! Ieven told him that i'd take himon june 2nd to TRU to get the new movie toys when they come out. (he did get A's and B's on his report card X-D ) ok,ok... Its also an excuse for me to get some too. :-P

Even if the movie isn't that great, it will defently be fun to go see it with him and the rest of the family.

Speaking of shreck 3, for the brief period i visited the TF forums, they said there is a third preview out that can be seen in the previews of shrek 3. Can't seem tofind it on line though, but they said it was a better one than the first too main trailers.

[Echo]

My movie novelization will be coming tomorrow!

[5150 Lego]

My movie novelization will be coming tomorrow!

Umm... What do you mean "novelization''?

[UltraPrime]

I even told him that i'd take himon june 2nd to TRU to get the new movie toys when they come out. (he did get A's and B's on his report card X-D )

They are already in stock at Argos...

Umm... What do you mean "novelization''?

The book-of-the-film

[JINZONINGEN73]

I have NEVER seen the same reaction over the movie when all the other series started. It is now common practice to re-boot the mythos every few years, and no-one has ever been that bothered before! This is just the same as that - a new re-telling of the Transformers story, completely seperate to what has gone on before.

I know, I know. But man... Spiderman and Batman (at first) kicked so much megablocks once they got money & used it right at the theaters.

Slight cosmetic changes, slight mythos changes, but still undeniably who they always were.

That's what us diehard fans were waiting for with this. It would've been a cinch.

And think too, when did Batman start to SUCK at the theaters? When some crazy fruitloop called Joel Schumacher came in and went bonkers with changing things... adding campy humor, terrible script, bad lines, etc...

They have even put in G1 references to please the old-school fans, but most just seem to take this as a slap in the face.

Because they were just slapped in there. Yet more cluelessness in regards to what made the series memorable in the first place.

Imagine if you saw a movie with Jean Claude Van Damme wearing a scarf,

followed by stepping into a blue hotrod,

that then makes a TARDIS sound as the engine starts,

followed by him saying, "Good dog, K-9",

all wrapped together with a CGI shard-bot of a realistic doberman running alongside the car.

That wouldn't be "fan service"... it'd be freaking offensively disgusting. :-D

[UltraPrime]

I know, I know. But man... Spiderman and Batman (at first) kicked so much megablocks once they got money & used it right at the theaters.

Slight cosmetic changes, slight mythos changes, but still undeniably who they always were.

That's what us diehard fans were waiting for with this. It would've been a cinch.

I agree with you to some degree, but it's not the same. Spiderman and Batman movies were based on a comic book. Transformers are based on a toy line. The G1 cartoon was an 80s interpetation of that, though it was the first it was not the defining version (I preferred the comic version myself - for the first couple of years, anyway).

And think too, when did Batman start to SUCK at the theaters? When some crazy fruitloop called Joel Schumacher came in and went bonkers with changing things... adding campy humor, terrible script, bad lines, etc...

Can't fault you there!

Because they were just slapped in there. Yet more cluelessness in regards to what made the series memorable in the first place.

Only in the same way Armada/Energon/Cybertron did too

Imagine if you saw a movie with Jean Claude Van Damme wearing a scarf,

followed by stepping into a blue hotrod,

that then makes a TARDIS sound as the engine starts,

followed by him saying, "Good dog, K-9",

all wrapped together with a CGI shard-bot of a realistic doberman running alongside the car.

That wouldn't be "fan service"... it'd be freaking offensively disgusting. :-D

LOL!!!

[5150 Lego]

And think too, when did Batman start to SUCK at the theaters? When some crazy fruitloop called Joel Schumacher came in and went bonkers with changing things... adding campy humor, terrible script, bad lines, etc...

.

You know whats funny? The later of the batman movies was really more accurate to the original series than the first to movies were with all the witey humor and "cliches' and catch phases and what not. What worked once, may not work a second time around. Again, we'll have to wait and see.

[Echo]

Everyone here needs to go buy Movie Jazz.

[JINZONINGEN73]

You know whats funny? The later of the batman movies was really more accurate to the original series than the first to movies were with all the witey humor and "cliches' and catch phases and what not.

Yah, that was pretty confounding stuff.

I remember seeing the cops who were trying to take Poison Ivy in acting all dopey and wacky like it was the 1960's show. I was like, "Isn't it a little too late to try and inject super-corniness into something that became successful by making the series more dark?"

I can't believe some people still manage to get job after job in Hollywood after messing up so bad.

[zero1312]

Imagine if you saw a movie with Jean Claude Van Damme wearing a scarf,

followed by stepping into a blue hotrod,

that then makes a TARDIS sound as the engine starts,

followed by him saying, "Good dog, K-9",

all wrapped together with a CGI shard-bot of a realistic doberman running alongside the car.

That wouldn't be "fan service"... it'd be freaking offensively disgusting. :-D

:-D :-D :-D :-D :-D

[5150 Lego]

Everyone here needs to go buy Movie Jazz.

Is it available? I thought the movie toys weren't going to be available till june. If there out now, then i'll go get them all!

[Echo]

Hasbro has allowed retailers to sell the Deluxe figures early, but I recommend saving your car's gas and waiting the short time until all of the figures launch on June 2nd instead of wasting your time riding around looking for something that you probably won't find.

[Brainbox]

*Sigh* I miss a day's worth of discussion, and look how much has happened...

I'm afraid I couldn't disagree with you more. You can't dismiss Beast Wars/RID/Armada/Energon/Cybertron as mere toy commercials, and just assume TF:TM '07 SHOULD be a successor to G1. This is my biggest problem with TF fans (of which I have been since getting my first TF and issue 1 of comic back in 1984). I have NEVER seen the same reaction over the movie when all the other series started. It is now common practice to re-boot the mythos every few years, and no-one has ever been that bothered before! This is just the same as that - a new re-telling of the Transformers story, completely seperate to what has gone on before.

My point exactly.

They have even put in G1 references to please the old-school fans, but most just seem to take this as a slap in the face.

I'm pleased...

Speaking of shreck 3, for the brief period i visited the TF forums, they said there is a third preview out that can be seen in the previews of shrek 3. Can't seem tofind it on line though, but they said it was a better one than the first too main trailers.

Apparantly, the third trailer is being attatched to POTC3 and Spider-Man 3 (week 3), and the Shreck trailer is supposed to be exclusive. If it is exclusive, it may not be online. Sadly.

They are already in stock at Argos...

Really?

[zero1312]

I'm pleased...

I'm too!! *sweet*

[JINZONINGEN73]

Only slightly more shard-y? If so, now re-used as a Spider Dalek.

Yeeush, yeah, I believe that was it, though it was an extremely short CGI clip & it looked super-fake, like most CGI things do.