LEGO LotR - general discussion

[SheepEater]

Hey Bycougars aka NujuMetru,

Congrats on reaching 10000 last november and please keep posting here. :)

You're basically the only reason this topic still exists. Just ignore Alcarin, he doesn't see the big picture at all, as you've mentioned already: if your MT get approved Lego will no doubt change the design to fit their needs so his complaints are irrelevant.

Please keep us informed of any communication and updates you get from Lego (as long as it's allowed of course)

I think that Lego should have marketed this line more as an actual replacement for Castle, to appeal to more kids. I, too, have never seen a kid hold a LOTR set in any toy store.

Anybody remember december 2011 when it was first announced? Some Castle fans were up in arms about Castle possibly being replaced by LOTR. Now look at the mediocrity of the 2013-2014 castle line... I think even those complainers from dec 2011 would have prefered a Helms Deep-level quality LOTR set than the generic and simplistic castle sets that came out.

Edited February 8, 2015 by SheepEater

[Alcarin]

Most of the ones that look "decent" as you put, or really just more accurate, also use an unrealistic number of bricks. Lego is never going to release a $600+ Lego LotR set when they havn't even done that for some of their most popular themes like Star Wars and City. I think Nuju's was the most realistic option. It was priced reasonably around $250, still had the iconic white city's look, and had some nice play features. Was it perfect? No, I think it could have used a little more detail and the trebuchets were rather large, but it was a good representation of something Lego might actually make themselves.

Sadly I cannot agree

https://ideas.lego.com/projects/70809

This version above is far better looking Minas Tirith (still bad compared to actual thing, but a far better and more in size of itself) than the one that reached 10.000 votes, It just happened to be the ''1st'' one I guess, but far from the best one.

His version wasn't perfect but it was realistic (size, play features,...) and he reached 10000. And what about those who always criticize his version? They did nothing!

Remember this,the next time you criticise your goverment or anything ;) Guess in your world, we have to agree or be quiet, critique is strongly forbidden.

[Faefrost]

I have to agree wtih both of you, if a Minas Tirith set is to be made by Lego it has to have a reasonable piece count and price point. There is no way they are going to make a LOTR set anywhere over the $300 price range.

atreyu2112 I am also tired of hearing about leaked lists as well as those who state the line has officially ended. Lego has never made any official announcement that the line is continuing or ending. Even if the license to make LOTR sets is expiring, there is no reason they can't extend it or get a new one. They have been able to obtain licenses for Lego Ideas projects such as BTTF, Ghostbusters, and Minecraft, so who is to say they can't get the license to make one more LOTR set.

As of now no one knows what Lego is going to do regarding LOTR/Minas Tirith, I don't even think anyone at LEGO knows. At this point it is everyones speculation.

It's all speculation. But a lot of it is reasonable and informed speculation. We can make a couple of guesses based on past behaviors, what we know of the movies, and fairly typical business practices.

- The license came into effect at some point in early 2011. Based on past behavior it is likely a 5 year license to start off.

- the sudden last minute addition of a third Hobbit movie messed up whatever the original plans were and impacted several waves. Resulting in Hobbit product without a matching movie on store shelves, and likely some LotR products being switched to third wave Hobbit.

- Lego will stop releasing new product at the one year mark for remaining time on the license. This give a years shelf life minimum to their last wave of product allowing it a full sales life. We are likely at that point for the Tolkien themes now.

- The only time Lego has ever announced the ending of a theme was Harry Potter. Because they tacked on the 8th movie Lego had product still out there when the license was ending that had to be sold or pulled by x date. It's worth noting that Lego allowed that license to expire with no extension after the last movie. One of their most succesful lines.

- Lego will never say a line or license has ended while product remains on the shelves. Doing so impacts sales of the remaining product. They will further never discuss licenses as doing so brings unwanted and unprofessional attention on the IP owners.

- the normal expected shelf life of a retail set is 1 year. A D2C set is normally 2 years. So a D2C set would typically only be released if there was a confirmed 2 years remaining on a license, or an extension was in place.

- we have never seen an instance where Lego does a partial or limited extension of a license just for a D2C set.(although given their extremely good relations with WB these days anything is possible.)

The above are all assumptions and speculation. But they are based on simply observing what Lego does and says and getting a feel for their typical practices. The biggest hurdle to a Minas Tirith set is not the set itself. It is the timing. It is the business issues surrounding the existing license. One big unsaid issue is does the Ideas group have the ability to step in and re open or renovate an existing license contract in support of an ideas project? This is a very different animal than simply negotiating a one shot BttF or GB license with Paramount or Universal.

Personally I think the project has an outside chance of making it through if somebody at WB likes it and wants it. But it is a very small chance at best. It's not an insta fail like the Helicarrier.

[Deathleech]

Sadly I cannot agree

https://ideas.lego.com/projects/70809

This version above is far better looking Minas Tirith (still bad compared to actual thing, but a far better and more in size of itself) than the one that reached 10.000 votes, It just happened to be the ''1st'' one I guess, but far from the best one.

A couple of things. First off that set you linked uses pieces in colors that don't currently exist. Secondly, it is almost double the proposed price Nuju's set would be. At 10 cents per piece that Minas Tirith you linked would cost nearly $400. Lego has only done a handful of $400+ sets and they are reserved for the very most popular themes. So with that said, of course it looks a little better... there is little excuse not to using double the bricks and in custom colors.

[Balbo]

Sadly I cannot agree

https://ideas.lego.com/projects/70809

This version above is far better looking Minas Tirith (still bad compared to actual thing, but a far better and more in size of itself) than the one that reached 10.000 votes, It just happened to be the ''1st'' one I guess, but far from the best one.

Remember this,the next time you criticise your goverment or anything ;) Guess in your world, we have to agree or be quiet, critique is strongly forbidden.

I agree with you that the Minas Tirith version from Nuju isn't perfect but it has a good price/piece ratio and is a nice representation of the "white city".

If the designers from TLG decide to make a Minas Tirith set, they will make their own version and not exactly the same like Nuju made. Just compare the original Ghostbusters set on Ideas and the set TLG released for instance

Edited February 8, 2015 by Balbo

[BrickJagger]

I have a question for the people here: Why on Earth would Lego make a new, enormous Minas Tirith if Lotr's replacement is coming out in 2016? If Lego really is making Minas Tirith (Which they aren't), when would it come out? 2016. Why make a new, huge, Castle-themed set that would directly compete with the new Castle sets? There's no way that Minas Tirith would come out this year, as we already know all of the Lego sets up to October and we have the exclusives list.

There won't have been a new Lotr set in over 2 full years by October. There are no more Hobbit movies. The "farewell set" was Orthanc, like it or not. In 4,104 posts, nothing has been established but the fact that Lotr is over. I've actually been reading this thread since it started, and this is pretty much composed of this:

1. About 1200 "Dream Waves"

2. About 700 "What could have been" posts

3. 20-30 Wild Goose Chases, plus the endless speculation following

4. About 350 "Lotr is over" posts. I'm not sure how many times people need to be told this.

5. A similar number of "No way, we're gonna get Minas Tirith" posts, in direct response to the "Lotr is over" ones.

I'm not sure why the fanbase is a little naïve about Lotr, because it wasn't intended to be a huge thing like Star Wars. It was your average-run-of-the-mill partnership, very similar to Tmnt. A few classic sets from older TV shows/movies, then movie sets when the new movie came out, then it was over. Please understand that.

I'm sure that there will be something that makes Lotr fans happy in the new fantasy sets.

[SMC]

There is no reason to think the next castle line will be fantasy, you think this topic is bad the castle 2016 one is all based on what someone said a shop manager told them.

[Khaled Yousef]

You forgot this BrickJagger:

6- About 10000 posts from one person insulting anyone who’d mention Nuju’s awesome creation in a good way

7- About 0 posts from moderators telling this one member to have a little more respect to a fellow Eurobricker who happened to have built an extremely popular MOC, even if he didn’t like it that much

That’s what bothered me about this thread, not the wish lists or the people who like to keep discussing their favorite theme in peace.

Edited February 8, 2015 by Khaled Yousef

[BrickJagger]

There is no reason to think the next castle line will be fantasy, you think this topic is bad the castle 2016 one is all based on what someone said a shop manager told them.

Sigh.....

There is no reason to think that there will be a Minas Tirith set, you think that topic is bad the Future Lotr Sets one is all based on a two-year old picture of a blurry white wall in the background.

You forgot this BrickJagger:

6- About 10000 posts from one person insulting anyone who’d mention Nuju’s awesome creation in a good way

7- About 0 posts from moderators telling this one member to have a little more respect to a fellow Eurobricker who happened to have built an extremely popular MOC, even if he didn’t like it that much

That’s what bothered me about this thread, not the wish lists or the people who like to keep discussing their favorite theme in peace.

I agree, Nuju does need more credit for his MOC, as I personally think that it is amazing and well thought out. My problem is that people refuse to believe this line is over. I don't remember there being any controversy over the ending of POP, Toy Story, The Lone Ranger... etc. People need to get over it and move on. People here need to talk about something that they enjoy, not endlessly rant about the end of their favorite theme.

Edited February 8, 2015 by BrickJagger

[Khaled Yousef]

Well, to be fair, there is something real to talk about in this thread, that one LOTR project (Nuju’s) has reached 10000 votes and it’s being currently reviewed by LEGO as a “potential” set. Discussing this is hardly a useless rant of fans in denial.

I think this thread could only be considered officially dead if the project was rejected; and as far as we know this didn’t happen yet.

[BrickJagger]

Well, to be fair, there is something real to talk about in this thread, that one LOTR project (Nuju’s) has reached 10000 votes and it’s being currently reviewed by LEGO as a “potential” set. Discussing this is hardly a useless rant of fans in denial.

I think this thread could only be considered officially dead if the project was rejected; and as far as we know this didn’t happen yet.

That is correct, but there are still people here who think there might still be

1. More sets

2. An Lotr D2C line

Both are near impossible.

Also, it is far likely that the piano or marble run will become sets, as Lego has recently taken a liking to less action-oriented Ideas sets like Birds, Wall-E, Science Research Lab.

Doesn't the contract for Lotr end in a month or two? It would make no sense to revive a license just to make one more set. Not good business.

[Khaled Yousef]

You’re probably right; but just let them have their fun speculating and dreaming, there is no harm in that, right?

[Deathleech]

Doesn't the contract for Lotr end in a month or two? It would make no sense to revive a license just to make one more set. Not good business.

I agree with most of the other stuff you said, but Lego DID get a license just for one set each (so far) with BttF and Ghostbusters.

[BrickJagger]

You’re probably right; but just let them have their fun speculating and dreaming, there is no harm in that, right?

No, there isn't any harm in dreaming and speculating. I do it all the time .The problem is that they aren't having fun, they are lashing out at each other over the topic of the end of the theme and, as you said, Nuju's project. Their is no fun or happy conversations here, and that's unfortunate. My original post was basically telling people to stop yelling at each other, because there's no reason for it.

I agree with most of the other stuff you said, but Lego DID get a license just for one set each (so far) with BttF and Ghostbusters.

They did, and I'm aware of that. What I was saying in my post was that Lego would have to bring back Lotr to make another set. There weren't any Bttf or Ghostbusters sets before their Ideas incarnations. Hope that clarifies.

[Khaled Yousef]

Couldn’t agree more; lashing out at each other renders this thread unreadable and depressing sometimes.

[kabel]

7- About 0 posts from moderators telling this one member to have a little more respect to a fellow Eurobricker who happened to have built an extremely popular MOC, even if he didn’t like it that much

I'm kinda sorry you feel this way, but what you have to understand is that it has become virtually impossible to follow this thread for the reasons mentioned by brickjagger. This thread here has become such a geek topic that often enough I don't know what the hell people are talking about and that beside the fact that I'd consider my English rather okay. But it's all those crazy acronyms alone drive me insane already, not to mention the rest. So if you guys don't use the report button or tell the mods via pm nothing will happen. Honestly, I've absolutely given up to follow any LoTr or Hobbit threads, nor do I ever view any mocs related to the topic!

[Deathleech]

They did, and I'm aware of that. What I was saying in my post was that Lego would have to bring back Lotr to make another set. There weren't any Bttf or Ghostbusters sets before their Ideas incarnations. Hope that clarifies.

Ya, I know it's a little different because Lego JUST had the LotR license and going out and getting the license again just for one Ideas project seems pretty unlikely. I don't think it's entirely impossible though. Maybe their internal testing or focus groups didn't really care for a Minas Tirith set, but now Lego sees how much people want one what with Nuju's project hitting 10,000 supports. It's not uncommon for companies to mis-judge the demand, or lack thereof for something.

With that said, I think the biggest thing the Minas Tirith project has going against it is the size. Lego doesn't seem to keen on making huge Idea projects. I don't think they have ever even had an Ideas/Cuusoo set that was over $50 MSRP, have they? So why would they make a $200+ set all of the sudden?

[Khaled Yousef]

Kabel: Never meant you weren’t doing a great effort to keep this place together, I know how difficult it can be, and your effort it greatly appreciated. It’s just that for all the negatives of this thread only one is basically intolerable which is someone going around insulting almost everyone without even getting a ticket, and I thought it was too obvious to miss, even for a casual reader of the thread. As for fan ranting, I don’t see a problem with people discussing their wishes and dreams, although pointless, as long as it’s in a friendly manner.

The reason why I didn’t use the report button is that everytime I try to give him an excuse; maybe he has a problem, maybe he’s blowing off steam, maybe he’d stop and realize he’s crossing many lines at some point… but then he never quits, not even when 10000 people disagrees with him, so I thought since BrickJagger was mentioning the downsides of this thread it might be a good idea to give a hint about something that went on too long and too far. Sorry if it made you think I was criticizing you or these forums in general; just this thread and how weird it had become.

[kabel]

No problem mate, I fully understand what you are saying. And I just explained why I don't feel like following this topic anymore. So please do use the report button when things become intolerable.

[Sir Gareth]

Bycougars is NOT Nuju Metru. Why is he getting credit for something he didn't create?

[Khaled Yousef]

Kabel: Thanks man. I’ll do that.

Now Deathleach, you have a point here, IDEAS sets are rather small, so there might not be a good chance for Minas Tirith to become an IDEAS sets… but that doesn’t mean it won’t convince LEGO that maybe Orthanc shouldn’t be the farewell set for this extremely popular theme, as it has been demonstrated by fans through that project or others like Rivendell.

Edited February 8, 2015 by Khaled Yousef

[Faefrost]

Doesn't the contract for Lotr end in a month or two? It would make no sense to revive a license just to make one more set. Not good business.

The contract probably expires in late 2015. Remember the contract has to cover the full expected lifecycle of all products produced. Once the contract ends the product must leave the shelves. So the contract will typically have at least a year remaining when the last wave is released in order to allow for sufficient retail cycle. By the same token they will not produce anything new once that 1 year threshold arrives as it will have insufficient time to be sold.

I agree with most of the other stuff you said, but Lego DID get a license just for one set each (so far) with BttF and Ghostbusters.

Getting a single simple limited license for something like BttF or GB is orders of magnitude less involved than modifying or renegotiating an existing contract, or even in some cases extending a contract that would otherwise be allowed to expire. Plus think of it from a business perspective rather than a fans. What benefit would TLG gain from paying to extend a full retail license for multi years just to do one limited release D2C set? Whereas what benefit would WB gain from offering Lego a limited license extension just for that one set when it would prevent them from shopping the full retail IP to another potential suitor? GB and BttF are viable because there is no real expected current interest in a full retail license by the IP holder, and working with TLG this way both generates interest and income for the aging IP, but also gauges interest and primes the pump for growth. This is not the same with the Tolkien properties.

Edited February 8, 2015 by Faefrost

[greenalfonzo]

Faerost makes a good point. If lego is going to do a new or final set like Minas Tirith, they'd certainly just negotiate a new short, one-off contract like they did for BTTF, GB, or the Simpsons. There could only be a problem with that if someone like Megablocks stepped in and offered WB a longer better deal....

[Deathleech]

Well considering how poorly the Hobbit merchandise has sold with everyone like Bridge Direct, Games Workshop, and Lego, and considering the LotR has no other media or tie ins to support it, I don't really see toy companies clamoring to get the license once it has expired with Lego. In fact I think WB would be HAPPY to give it to Lego again for one large Ideas set. They would be silly not to.

[Faefrost]

Faerost makes a good point. If lego is going to do a new or final set like Minas Tirith, they'd certainly just negotiate a new short, one-off contract like they did for BTTF, GB, or the Simpsons. There could only be a problem with that if someone like Megablocks stepped in and offered WB a longer better deal....

Mostly right, but you are missing a key point. It isn't a matter of somebody else stepping in. It is whether or not WB perceives better value in freeing up the license so they can offer it to another licensor. If they give Lego a limited license just for the one Minas Tirith set it likely locks down the license for at a minimum 2 years. So the question is is there more value with this license for WB in doing that then rolling the dice and shopping it around and keeping their options open? And that will be based on the perceived current market valuation of the IP merchandising.

Honestly I would not be surprised if the next review period ends with the Minas Tirith set held over still in review.