LEGO LotR - general discussion

[Trunkbass]

If you want to hold onto a glimmer of hope that LotR is still coming back, remember that the retailers catalog said that The Hobbit was part of an "evergreen" IP. LEGO generally uses that term to mean that they will keep something around for a long time.

This looked promising at first, but if you take a look at this quote:

"Why won't they bring back for good the space theme?

The space theme is an evergreen theme for us. We currently have Lego Star Wars and Lego Mars Mission themes to satisfy consumer demand for space themed building."

http://lego.gizmodo.com/5019797/everything-you-always-wanted-to-know-about-lego

It could mean that The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings sets are indeed evergreen, but part of the evergreen theme 'Castle'.

[Alcarin]

I don't know why the Mouth of Sauron is getting so much hate around here. I know he's a minor character, but I think it's cool that Lego decided to not only include him, but made a new mold for him and everything. It gives me more hope that Lego will make a Gondor set, even if it's just a D2C set. If they were willing to mold a part for a one-off character in a smallish set, why wouldn't they do a mold for some Gondorian helmets for a larger set? I don't think there's a specific rule that Lego must follow where they can never include brand new molds in a D2C set.

Mouth of Sauron is one of my favorite minor characters in the story. I'm a sucker for humans who become corrupted and evil in my fantasy stories, plus he looks awesome in the movie. I'm glad I have him in minifig form.

Noone hates him.... its just funny/sad whatever that LEGO chose to make a character who has no SCREEN TIME unless you get extended edition but so far ignroed much more important figures let it be named (Eowyn, Faramir, Witch King) or Generic (Gondor Soldiers, haradrim,)

Hell I would even say a Tower Guard would appeal to kids much more than Mouth does.

[Deathleech]

The more I think about it, the more I wish the minifigures from Orc Forge would of just been combined with the Tower of Orthanc set and Orc Forge would of been scrapped for something better. Orthanc was already pretty sparse on figs for a $200 set so why not add a couple more? Lurtz, 4 White Hand armored Uruk-hai, 3 Mordor Orcs, and Grima could of all been in the set, with all but the Mordor Orcs as exclusive prints. This would of required no new molds. Lego could of left Saruman out and just put him in the Wizard Duel set even though he is key to Orthanc because honestly, if you can afford a $200 set you are probably going to buy Wizard Battle too. It doesn't work the other way around for kids on a budget wanting him. Lego could of thrown Council of Elrond in the first wave and in the second wave gave us a $30 Gondor army builder in it's place. Pirate Ship Ambush could of been replaced by Osgiliath or a piece of Minas Tirith that the wall hooks to.

I don't know why the Mouth of Sauron is getting so much hate around here.

I think people love that Lego created such an obscure character, but they just hate knowing that he might of took the place of someone else more important. The Black Gates could of easily had the Witch King instead of the Mouth or Sauron.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Deathleech

[General Magma]

The Hobbit, an "Evergreen IP"? The same goes for Superheroes & Star Wars - does that mean we might be able to count on more sets beyond this wave, or does an "evergreen IP" only imply

that it will be around for longer than 2 years, so not necessarily turn into a lasting line such as SW and the superheroes? Not sure if that gives a bit more hope for LOTR but oh well.

[naf]

The more I think about it, the more I wish the minifigures from Orc Forge would of just been combined with the Tower of Orthanc set and Orc Forge would of been scrapped for something better. Orthanc was already pretty sparse on figs for a $200 set so why not add a couple more? Lurtz, 4 White Hand armored Uruk-hai, 3 Mordor Orcs, and Grima could of all been in the set, with all but the Mordor Orcs as exclusive prints. This would of required no new molds. Lego could of left Saruman out and just put him in the Wizard Duel set even though he is key to Orthanc because honestly, if you can afford a $200 set you are probably going to buy Wizard Battle too. It doesn't work the other way around for kids on a budget wanting him. Lego could of thrown Council of Elrond in the first wave and in the second wave gave us a $30 Gondor army builder in it's place. Pirate Ship Ambush could of been replaced by Osgiliath or a piece of Minas Tirith that the wall hooks to.

I think people love that Lego created such an obscure character, but they just hate knowing that he might of took the place of someone else more important. The Black Gates could of easily had the Witch King instead of the Mouth or Sauron.

The Witch King was dead before the Battle of the Black Gate, so he couldn't have appeared there.

We really aren't missing that many of the main characters if you think about it:

Witch King - really only missing his special helm, we already have nazgul

Eowyn - not that distinctive of a character, could take the Rohan soldier from Uruk Hai army, put a female head and hair on him, and you have an instant Eowyn.

Galadriel - it's not out of the realm of possibility that she appears in a Hobbit set

Faramir - Not a hugely important character in the grand scheme of things, more of a nice to have. And, like Eowyn, can be easily MOC'ed.

Really, the Witch King and Gondorian soldiers are the main missing "must have" figures in my opinion, so basically two new molds for the helms. Not out of the realm of possiblity for Lego to make one last set and include these elements in it.

[The_Chosen_1]

Galadriel - it's not out of the realm of possibility that she appears in a Hobbit set

Galadriel is confirmed to be coming in a Hobbit set, so that's one less major minifigure that the theme will be missing.

[Darth Caedus]

Witch King - really only missing his special helm, we already have nazgul

Eowyn - not that distinctive of a character, could take the Rohan soldier from Uruk Hai army, put a female head and hair on him, and you have an instant Eowyn.

Galadriel - it's not out of the realm of possibility that she appears in a Hobbit set

Faramir - Not a hugely important character in the grand scheme of things, more of a nice to have. And, like Eowyn, can be easily MOC'ed.

Witchking - we do need him in his special helm, yeah. And we really ought to have a Fellbeast.

Eowyn - that solution wouldn't work, Eowyn's armor looks nothing like the UHA Rohirrim. But I agree she would require no new molds.

Galadriel - she's confirmed for Hobbit sets for sure, so no worries there

Faramir - gaaaah to the idea that he's 'not a hugely important character'... but he definitely cannot be MOC'd. You need SOME kind of Gondorian torso, whether it's his light brown ranger vest thing with the white tree on it, or full Gondorian plate armor.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Darth Caedus

[MonkeyCrumb]

I am beyond upset with what sets, and figs lego has chosen for lotr. This is no different from how they treated us when Pirates of the caribbean came out. Sure the minifigs they produced were outstanding, but not entirely the figs we should have gotten. Some sets were a given, and some were just a waste of design. They did not produce 1 set from the 3rd potc film then they killed the line. This is NO different. I Love lotr and i love lego, but when they miss such crucial Sets and figs in a line it really pisses me off. I will not buy lego for a while if we do not get Gondor in lego. I have an unfathomable amount of bricks and armies and armies of figures, so your argument of " quit whining look at all the wonderful things lego is coming out with'' does not apply to me, or a lot of other people on here. I have nothing left to buy. This years castle sets were plum awfull and i hate chima and ninjago with a passion. I will buy all the new hobbit sets and multiples if they do any more army builders but after that without lotr, i will start a new dark age.

No, my argument was to look at what Lego HAS already given you, not what else is coming next. But then for you, and all you other whiners, WHO CARES if you're "starting a new dark age"?? What, are you bargaining with Lego that if they make the last remaining major figures, you'll buy other themes when they are done with LOTR after future waves? No, you're saying you're going to quit anyway, and throwing a childish tantrum in the meantime.

Bottom line, what you're saying is you're going to quit Lego anyway, be it now or after a 3rd wave of LOTR. Unless, of course, you're full of it and being overly dramatic, or else you think you'll find a new Lego theme you don't hate as much if you get a 3rd LOTR wave? So, WHY should Lego care what you think? Is Lego supposed to support a line that doesn't make them as much money just to scrape a few bucks out of someone who's going to quit altogether after they get their way?

Poor baby, you have "nothing left to buy". Be thankful for what you already own. And your complaint abour POTC is ridiculous as well. They knew they weren't going to be able to keep making sets due to poor sales, but they gave us Davy Jones instead of waiting to make a Flying Dutchman.

You poor, poor starving people with your glasses half empty!!

[Deathleech]

The Witch King was dead before the Battle of the Black Gate, so he couldn't have appeared there.

We really aren't missing that many of the main characters if you think about it:

I was just saying if Lego absolutely needed to fit the Witch King somewhere, and couldn't put him anywhere else, they could of put him in the Black Gates set and just said it was covering two scenes with one set (the other scene being when he flies over the gate to attack Minas Tirith? Idk )

And no, we really aren't missing that many big characters but the ones we ARE missing are pretty substantial. I mean why not give us the Witch King before Mouth of Sauron, the Corsair, Arwen, etc.? The four characters you listed are just the most important characters we are missing but really there are many, MANY more. Gothmog, Denethor, Celeborn, Rohan Merry, Gondor Pippin, Sauron, Easterlings, Wildmen, Haradrim, Haradrim Chief, Gamling, Madril, Grishnak, Shagrat, Snaga, etc. There are TONS of minor characters we are missing.

[MonkeyCrumb]

People don't hate him but he is typical for the whole theme. They didn't give us some of the most important characters/locations but things like the Pirate Ship and Mouth of Sauron. It simply doesn't make sense.

Sigh. ALL 9 Fellowship members, Saruman, Lurtz, Ringwraiths, Grima Wormtongue, Theoden, Haldir, Eldrond, Arwen. Also, Shelob, Orthanc, Helms Deep, Weathertop.

Nope. Lego didn't give us anything important at all. No, it "doesn't make sense" to you people because you fail to understand. That's like saying Calculus or Algebra "makes no sense" because YOU fail to understand it. Just because you don't like or don't agree with something does not mean it doesn't "make sense".

What you kids fail to realize is that EVERY toy company has to hold something back for a future wave. You know exactly why you don't get the fellowship ALL in one set, but spread out over the wave, yet can't even see the rationale between their other choices?

Maybe you guys can count up all of the individual posters in this thread, and realize that Lego needs to sell to more than just that number to be profitable. They aren't teasing or tormenting you, they are trying to make a profitable approach to delivering what we AND the general public is willing to buy.

[MKJoshA]

The Pirate Ship Ambush was a bit of a random set. Sure, it was designed to bring non Tolkien fans to table.

But LEGO does not make new molds for D2C.

I was actually more drawn to the pirate ship as a Tolkien fan. I don't think I would have even given it a 2nd look if I weren't a Tolkien fan.

As for D2Cs and new molds, the new Simpsons set shows that Lego is willing to use new molds for D2C.

[naf]

Witchking - we do need him in his special helm, yeah. And we really ought to have a Fellbeast.

Eowyn - that solution wouldn't work, Eowyn's armor looks nothing like the UHA Rohirrim. But I agree she would require no new molds.

Galadriel - she's confirmed for Hobbit sets for sure, so no worries there

Faramir - gaaaah to the idea that he's 'not a hugely important character'... but he definitely cannot be MOC'd. You need SOME kind of Gondorian torso, whether it's his light brown ranger vest thing with the white tree on it, or full Gondorian plate armor.

Really, the Witch King is important from a lore standpoint, but from the standpoint of the action that takes place in both the books and the movie, he's not a huge character. He shows up, tries to beat up Gandalf, and then dies. While I would love to have him, I can understand why he isn't on the priority list for Lego to make.

Eowyn and Faramir - Lego has never been about exact interpretations on things, use some imagination. All I'm saying is that out of all of the characters people want, these two are the most easily MOC'ed. I stand by my point that Faramir is not that important, when you take into account the 100's of characters in the story. He was actually given a more important role in the movie than the book (providing some "gray" area for a character and some extra drama, all the characters in the book are pretty much black and white). So, given this, I can see why Faramir is not a priority as well ... still would love to see him though.

[deskp]

I was actually more drawn to the pirate ship as a Tolkien fan. I don't think I would have even given it a 2nd look if I weren't a Tolkien fan.

As for D2Cs and new molds, the new Simpsons set shows that Lego is willing to use new molds for D2C.

What new molds?, i couldn't see any all the heads are from the Collectable Minifigure Series.

[MonkeyCrumb]

Ofcourse we did not expect to have Fellowship in LEGO.....

But once you have it you do not think that way, but you think why is there LEGO Mouth of Sauron but not Gondorian Soldier... or Faramir.... who are 10 times more seen and more important things in LOTR universe than Mouth....

You also think why is the Corsair Ship and no Minas Tirith....

And so on and on....

Because. IF you want to build an "Evergreen" property, you don't put out everything all at once. You "build the brand". I know I wanted the King and Army of the Dead at some point as well as Mouth of Sauron. Would the call have been as strong for them if they saved those for last? Probably not. People are still wanting Gondorians, Eowyn, Faramir, etc, so therefore it makes sense that it would be a strong seller in whatever wave it's in. So, spreading it out keeps fans coming back. This is what EVERY toy line does. What happens some times is that lines don't take off like companies hope, and we're left with unproduced wish lists.

It sounds as if even the first wave of LOTR didn't sell as well as Lego had hoped. IF that's the case, nothing else we want would have sold as well. That first wave was incredibly solid and gave us the bulk of the main LOTR cast! If Frodo, Aragorn, Gimli, etc can't sell as well, what chance does Faramir and Eowyn have?

Many people here are gnashing their teeth and making demands based on what THEY want. What we want and what succeeds at retail is not always the same! You can't retire the Fellowship after one wave, you have to keep them available to newcomers. So Gimli & Frodo make sense in the Council of Elrond set, as much as we would have all preferred all new figures.

Lego is a business, not a charity.

[Gremer]

Sigh. ALL 9 Fellowship members, Saruman, Lurtz, Ringwraiths, Grima Wormtongue, Theoden, Haldir, Eldrond, Arwen. Also, Shelob, Orthanc, Helms Deep, Weathertop.

Witch King. Sauron. Faramir. Denethor (though he would be unlikely anyways). Eowyn. Gothmog. Minas Tirith. Fellbeast.

BTW, this is an 18 and older site, so we're not starving kids.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Gremer

[Robert_88]

Sigh. ALL 9 Fellowship members, Saruman, Lurtz, Ringwraiths, Grima Wormtongue, Theoden, Haldir, Eldrond, Arwen. Also, Shelob, Orthanc, Helms Deep, Weathertop.

Nope. Lego didn't give us anything important at all. No, it "doesn't make sense" to you people because you fail to understand. That's like saying Calculus or Algebra "makes no sense" because YOU fail to understand it. Just because you don't like or don't agree with something does not mean it doesn't "make sense".

What you kids fail to realize is that EVERY toy company has to hold something back for a future wave. You know exactly why you don't get the fellowship ALL in one set, but spread out over the wave, yet can't even see the rationale between their other choices?

Maybe you guys can count up all of the individual posters in this thread, and realize that Lego needs to sell to more than just that number to be profitable. They aren't teasing or tormenting you, they are trying to make a profitable approach to delivering what we AND the general public is willing to buy.

I wrote that we still need "SOME" of the important sets! We have a lot (most) of the important stuff. I know that! (I saw the movies and I also read the books)

Maybe you should read my post again.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Robert_88

[MonkeyCrumb]

I was just saying if Lego absolutely needed to fit the Witch King somewhere, and couldn't put him anywhere else, they could of put him in the Black Gates set and just said it was covering two scenes with one set (the other scene being when he flies over the gate to attack Minas Tirith? Idk )

And no, we really aren't missing that many big characters but the ones we ARE missing are pretty substantial. I mean why not give us the Witch King before Mouth of Sauron, the Corsair, Arwen, etc.? The four characters you listed are just the most important characters we are missing but really there are many, MANY more. Gothmog, Denethor, Celeborn, Rohan Merry, Gondor Pippin, Sauron, Easterlings, Wildmen, Haradrim, Haradrim Chief, Gamling, Madril, Grishnak, Shagrat, Snaga, etc. There are TONS of minor characters we are missing.

Because Lego is a business, and it makes more sense that you'll buy a set for the important characters, rather than trying to sell people a set filled with unimportant characters. And since Lego is a business, they are also trying to leave reasons for people to buy future sets. Funny how you seem to comment on virtually every page in this thread yet know so little about Lego's marketing strategies.

[Darth Punk]

Am I lost, this is the Future LoTR set discussion correct? And not the Get what you Get LoTR/Get off my lawn discussion? Oh you silly kids.

[MonkeyCrumb]

Witch King. Sauron. Faramir. Denethor (though he would be unlikely anyways). Eowyn. Gothmog. Minas Tirith. Fellbeast.

BTW, this is an 18 and older site, so we're not starving kids.

OMG. It's....almost....as if.....Lego were saving something for future waves! As if, perhaps, they wanted to actually make money off their investments?

And for an 18 and older site, there is a ton of immature tantrum throwing going on. Again, there are a few voices of reason mixed in here, but there are plenty of others drowning them out with hollow threats and whining. "Wah, I hate everything Lego does, and if they don't give me wave 3, I quit" Ugh.

I wrote that we still need "SOME" of the important sets! We have a lot (most) of the important stuff. I know that! (I saw the movies and I also read the books)

Maybe you should read my post again.

Uh, hey genius, it's the fact that you complain how it "doesn't make sense". Sorry if you want to focus so hard on the word "some". Maybe you should read both our posts again?

[Gremer]

OMG. It's....almost....as if.....Lego were saving something for future waves! As if, perhaps, they wanted to actually make money off their investments?

And for an 18 and older site, there is a ton of immature tantrum throwing going on. Again, there are a few voices of reason mixed in here, but there are plenty of others drowning them out with hollow threats and whining. "Wah, I hate everything Lego does, and if they don't give me wave 3, I quit" Ugh.

Or, LotR died without giving us Gondor and other minor places with big influences (Amon Hen). We don't know, and people are making assumptions.

There's also whining about whining.

[MonkeyCrumb]

Am I lost, this is the Future LoTR set discussion correct? And not the Get what you Get LoTR/Get off my lawn discussion? Oh you silly kids.

Thanks for contributing to the topic, oh wait. You didn't. But we can let it get back to the "blame Lego", "Lego makes NO sense" and "gimme gimme gimme or I quit" thread that it was, if you prefer.

[Deathleech]

Sigh. ALL 9 Fellowship members, Saruman, Lurtz, Ringwraiths, Grima Wormtongue, Theoden, Haldir, Eldrond, Arwen. Also, Shelob, Orthanc, Helms Deep, Weathertop.

Nope. Lego didn't give us anything important at all. No, it "doesn't make sense" to you people because you fail to understand. That's like saying Calculus or Algebra "makes no sense" because YOU fail to understand it. Just because you don't like or don't agree with something does not mean it doesn't "make sense".

Robert said Lego didn't give us SOME important things, not that they didn't give us ANYTHING important. Maybe you would of seen that part if you could put aside your zealot-like defense of Lego for just a second?

Maybe you guys can count up all of the individual posters in this thread, and realize that Lego needs to sell to more than just that number to be profitable. They aren't teasing or tormenting you, they are trying to make a profitable approach to delivering what we AND the general public is willing to buy.

Your logic is severely flawed. So Lego is going to release the Mouth of Sauron, a character not even in the standard release of the film (you know, the one the "general public" is most likely to see), but they won't give us a character like Faramir or Eowyn? They play major roles and are seen in huge chunks of the second and third films. MoS isn't even the Extended Edition of the films 5 minutes.

Because Lego is a business, and it makes more sense that you'll buy a set for the important characters, rather than trying to sell people a set filled with unimportant characters. And since Lego is a business, they are also trying to leave reasons for people to buy future sets. Funny how you seem to comment on virtually every page in this thread yet know so little about Lego's marketing strategies.

Funny how you have commented on EVERYONE'S concern with the LotR wave in the last few pages with your "let's be thankful for anything they give us" attitude. You honestly are coming off MUCH worse than any whining, what with needing to respond to EVERY concern anyone has with the LotR. And no, I don't know about Lego's marketing strategy, DO YOU? You claim to know what they are thinking but there are so many flaws with your logic it's not even funny. Like this:

And your complaint abour POTC is ridiculous as well. They knew they weren't going to be able to keep making sets due to poor sales, but they gave us Davy Jones instead of waiting to make a Flying Dutchman.

Actually that's not true. Lego has been reported as saying PotC sales were actually pretty good but they intended to end the line regardless because there were no movies to help support sales. If that is true, Lego could of easily planned ahead and made more diverse sets and covered more important characters. You claim Lego released lesser characters to give us something to look forward to later on? Ok, well why would they give us the B or even C team sets when sales from the first wave (A team) were in question? Why not give us the strongest second wave possible if there is a good chance things will be cancelled due to poor sales? Companies generally give costumers "filler" waves when the line is a huge success and they know full well they have many, many waves to produce and can afford to throw in the odd ball character here and there.

Also I said a few pages back I have no idea why Lego does what they do. I acknowledged we aren't their main target audience and maybe testing shows that certain sets we find lame would be huge hits with kids. I really don't know.

[SirBlake]

Lego is a business, not a charity.

This TLG apologist thing is wearing thin. We get it, you like to complain about complainers. And now I'm complaining about the complainer who is complaining about complainers. It's complain-ception! Happy now? :-P

The bottom line is that this is a community of consumers not shareholders. As such, concern about TLG's profit margins is not a prerequisite. It is our collective prerogative to criticize as we see fit.

Kill a line because it underperformed? Understandable. Load the line with screwball set choices that guarantee poor sales and neglect obvious choices that would certainly sell better? Unforgivable.

[Darth Punk]

Or, LotR died without giving us Gondor and other minor places with big influences (Amon Hen). We don't know, and people are making assumptions.

There's also whining about whining.

There is still hope. Especially if it is true about TLG extending The hobbit and it being part of an evergreen line. Which would be a natural progression into TLoR. And with hope come dreams which leads to discussion of future TLoR which is why we are here.

Otherwise what is the point?

[Robert_88]

Uh, hey genius, it's the fact that you complain how it "doesn't make sense". Sorry if you want to focus so hard on the word "some". Maybe you should read both our posts again?

I could explain it to you again but I don't think it would make sense. Have a nice day! ;)