Eurobricks Mafia Day One: Let the metagaming begin!

[Nightshroud99]

Mayor: Cornelius Murdock

Mayor doesn't seem like an important job this early on; but with only two viable choices I'll go with Cornelius because I played with him in another game and I don't really know Flare.

[Dannylonglegs]

Where did you leave your brain? I said he'd make a shitty Scum target and a good vig target. Learn to read if you're going to accuse someone of contradicting themselves. And an MO can't be "to kill everybody" because MO means the method of which a killer uses to murder its victims. Duh. I mean, come on.

Chillax, man. I read what you said:

"Yes, someone could've been converted. Only certain people can be converted though, so it would be lucky on the part of the converting team. We hoepfully also have a vig, but why would a vig go for either one of those people?

*snip*

So, Capt. Redblade doesn't even appear to have posted in the Night Zero thread. He'd, therefore, make a great vig target, but I don't think the vig would be so sadistic and chainsaw-y. I stand by the idea that Capt Redblade makes a great serial killer target."

You first wonder why a vig would go for either of these individuals, but then change your mind completely and decide that he'd make a "great vig target." It's not a damning mistake on your part--you type fast and I can see how your train of thought would simply run from wondering why, to picking out a solution. It just stuck out to me as odd is all. What I find odder is your quick judgement of my post as being not-thought-through, when you clearly didn't read all of mine. I say MO not as a comment related to Nightshroud's miss-use of the word, but rather, a response to this: "but I don't think the vig would be so sadistic and chainsaw-y" You state that the MO is too sadistic and chainsaw-y to be a vig's MO, but I disagree that an MO's morality has anything to do with the affiliation of it's perpetrator, citing your own Forest 2's vig kills as an example. Maybe I shouldn't have said MO when the definition was in question, but you certainly jumped on my post really quickly.

~Insectoid Aristocrat

[Tamamono]

Or he could be scum playing in front, a common and valid tactic. Let's not rule out any possibilities here. By no means do I think Cornelius has given us a towntell... but I think it's worth a shot to just elect him anyway. It's not an all-powerful role, and maybe it will tell us things as far as behavior and actions. Who knows?

I didn't rule anything out; I said that Cornelius towntold earlier. That doesn't mean he's town, it just means that I see him (and several others) as the most trustworthy as of now.

Erm, no one has heard of the psychopath role? It's not on MafiaWiki anymore as it's own page, but it's definitely a variation a Serial Killer that can be "cured" by the psychiatrist. It's been used on Eurobricks before, too.

Oh, I thought all SKs could be cured.

So, Capt. Redblade doesn't even appear to have posted in the Night Zero thread. He'd, therefore, make a great vig target, but I don't think the vig would be so sadistic and chainsaw-y. I stand by the idea that Capt Redblade makes a great serial killer target."

Did he not post? I thought he he'd posted at least once... That could very well be a vigkill then, and maybe the skelly is the SK? I could see the scum not killing for fear of killing their own.

[CorneliusMurdock]

And speaking of being a drama queen, you think the mayor will be in charge of things? Settle down. He or she will break any tie that occurs in the voting. That's hardly anything I would consider being "in charge".

I didn't say they'd be in charge of things, I was making an reductio ad absurdum argument. The mayor is a tool for the town, and any tool, no matter how trivial, shouldn't be given to a random person without thought.

(Even if there's no real power, I'd get a badge of office or a top hat, right? Right?)

[Scouty]

Uhm, I think we should lynch Banana Sphinx because he said he was a wise man, but all he is is a casino owner taking our votes away. I think that makes him really, really suspicious and we should...uhm...lynch him for his treacherous deeds. I don't think that gambling is a very wise thing and he tricked us into this game and made mean, mean faces at us during the game. If I had my vote I'd vote for him. I hope you do too.

Another person I found to be suspicious is JimButcher, who took care to point out that the people who didn't post their pieces would be suspicious. I found it a bit suspicious of him to be pointing out this fact, and, I think, would be a good statement for a scum to make. I just thought I'd tell my thoughts as voting comes near and since I lost my vote, I'd like it to be known who I would have voted for.

That would be Banana Sphinx.

[JimBee]

Shouldn't you suspect PirateDave67 then? Isn't that who TinyPies posted about?

Yes, thank you. I get the D's mixed up.

I didn't say they'd be in charge of things, I was making an reductio ad absurdum argument. The mayor is a tool for the town, and any tool, no matter how trivial, shouldn't be given to a random person without thought.

Yeah, you are a tool.

Another person I found to be suspicious is JimButcher, who took care to point out that the people who didn't post their pieces would be suspicious. I found it a bit suspicious of him to be pointing out this fact, and, I think, would be a good statement for a scum to make. I just thought I'd tell my thoughts as voting comes near and since I lost my vote, I'd like it to be known who I would have voted for.

If you recall the reason why I thought it would be a good idea, it was so that the town had a better chance to piece the puzzle together. We're all alone, and the scum's best tactic, I would think, would be to withhold their pieces until later or not at all. Since the separate scum teams are working among themselves, they had an advantage if they had more than one piece of the puzzle between them. Since some people already started to reveal them, it would be the best interest of the town to reveal the pieces and solve it as quickly as possible.

I also put myself under the suspects category by claiming I didn't have a piece. I was hoping to narrow down the number of people withholding pieces so that we might've gained some suspects. Well I'm one of them, so, uh, good on you for accusing me?

I also find it suspicious that you withheld your piece for so long, and then decided to reveal the puzzle pieces you had put together. If you really had disagreed with me about revealing all the pieces, then why did you do that?

[CorneliusMurdock]

Yeah, you are a tool.

Some of us are sharper than others.

[Hinckley]

I didn't say they'd be in charge of things, I was making an reductio ad absurdum argument. The mayor is a tool for the town, and any tool, no matter how trivial, shouldn't be given to a random person without thought.

(Even if there's no real power, I'd get a badge of office or a top hat, right? Right?)

So, why are you a better tool than anybody else?

Chillax, man. I read what you said:

"Yes, someone could've been converted. Only certain people can be converted though, so it would be lucky on the part of the converting team. We hoepfully also have a vig, but why would a vig go for either one of those people?

*snip*

So, Capt. Redblade doesn't even appear to have posted in the Night Zero thread. He'd, therefore, make a great vig target, but I don't think the vig would be so sadistic and chainsaw-y. I stand by the idea that Capt Redblade makes a great serial killer target."

You first wonder why a vig would go for either of these individuals, but then change your mind completely and decide that he'd make a "great vig target." It's not a damning mistake on your part--you type fast and I can see how your train of thought would simply run from wondering why, to picking out a solution. It just stuck out to me as odd is all. What I find odder is your quick judgement of my post as being not-thought-through, when you clearly didn't read all of mine. I say MO not as a comment related to Nightshroud's miss-use of the word, but rather, a response to this: "but I don't think the vig would be so sadistic and chainsaw-y" You state that the MO is too sadistic and chainsaw-y to be a vig's MO, but I disagree that an MO's morality has anything to do with the affiliation of it's perpetrator, citing your own Forest 2's vig kills as an example. Maybe I shouldn't have said MO when the definition was in question, but you certainly jumped on my post really quickly.

~Insectoid Aristocrat

Why can't you quote like a normal person? I think you've already answered your own concerns. Yes, I can now see how those things contradict each other and yes, I read your post too fast. And my thought process did spill out into that post as I was posting between tasks at work. Notice that signifies that I'm not afraid to let my thought process spill out onto the page. You know how I obsess over what I say when I have something to hide. Anyway, thanks for taking the time to explain yourself twice.

To clarify: Redblade would be a vig target, but I don't think that was the vig, based on the MO. The trap killer in The Forest II was gleeful because the ACME catalog made the traps sound like fun and he had an obligation to behave like the road runner. However, I would also assume that if there is a Scum killer, which we know there is, there is a serial killer, which also seems to have been confirmed, that it would be the most likely if any killer was to choose not to act, it would be the vig. It's possible a killer was blocked or a target protected last night as well.

See what all of this speculation has gotten us? We should've stopped talking about this a long time ago.

No, I think we've learned a lot. Like, I'm a dick. OK, so we haven't learned much but we've seen a lot of ... behavior.

Also, I'm not saying that definitely wasn't the vig as either kill. These are just opinions I've expressed. I don't think, by any means, that I'm 100% right about it.

[TrumpetKing]

And the SK is going to do what you say because....? The SK is not going to go for someone that has any attention on them at all. There could be a watcher about. We almost certainly have a protector, unless def is deliberately screwing us over. Figure it out.

Did I ever say that the SK had to listen to me? No. I realize that there are way too many flaws in that suggestion, anyways.

You state how confused you are, a common Scum tactic. Instead of just professing confusion, ask for clarification. Actively participate. Then you excuse everything you do by saying why you shouldn't vote for Flare for mayor and then vote for him. Scum tell. Ping.

Do you recall Heartlake? I was found townie, despite saying I was confused numerous times. Ping.

I have been actively participating. And I explained that experienced players will be helpful later on in the game. That is why I voted for Flare. You voting for Flare helps you in no way if you are going to just use that against me, as well. Just a tip.

Not to mention, you have been reacting to posts quite harshly, not a very "Townie" way to act. Keep your cool.

[Flare]

After reading to the last 4 pages of material (I was asleep what do you want...)

Hincks, I think you've cleared yourself up from any accusations of scum. If you were just voting for me for mayor because you didn't know me, then I'm not sure if that was the best idea but fine, no submotives.

Cornelius, you pushing yourself to be mayor seems a little bit suspicious. Why do you want to be mayor so badly? ("Oh, because I don't want Flare the noob to be mayor so I need it to be me! ME!!! ")

And TrumpetKing67, I have to agree that you also have been acting a bit scummy. Despite the fact that you voted for me as mayor.

I don't know who I should vote for as mayor, not Cornelius, but I don't think there are really any other choices besides myself at the moment. I'm allowed to vote for myself, right?

[Scouty]

If you recall the reason why I thought it would be a good idea, it was so that the town had a better chance to piece the puzzle together. We're all alone, and the scum's best tactic, I would think, would be to withhold their pieces until later or not at all. Since the separate scum teams are working among themselves, they had an advantage if they had more than one piece of the puzzle between them. Since some people already started to reveal them, it would be the best interest of the town to reveal the pieces and solve it as quickly as possible.

I also put myself under the suspects category by claiming I didn't have a piece. I was hoping to narrow down the number of people withholding pieces so that we might've gained some suspects. Well I'm one of them, so, uh, good on you for accusing me?

I also find it suspicious that you withheld your piece for so long, and then decided to reveal the puzzle pieces you had put together. If you really had disagreed with me about revealing all the pieces, then why did you do that?

I share with your sentiment that its probably best to put all the pieces on the table. The scum may or may not have released their pieces. I still wonder how somebody solved the question when the puzzle from the thread was still rather vague.

I held onto my piece because I wanted to try and have an advantage over the scum, but I looked at my piece later on and it turned out to be quite the useless piece in the puzzle, so I thought I'd share it, plugged in with the other pieces I assembled, just to help anybody else...

Anyway, I found your comment suspicious because it seemed to me, at the time, like something a scum would say in this circumstance. It's also clear that you were sticking around to try and solve the puzzle, too. It's really behavior of both town/scum, but something to me feels that it's scummy and odd. I'd probably place my vote on you if I had one to place (Banana Sphinx!!!!). I could be wrong, but its better to out my suspicions now (especially without the backing of my own vote) and see if anybody else agrees or disagrees with it.

I'd like to point out that Cecilie made a comment yesterday about her withholding a piece. I wonder if that had any influence in a killer's choice of her death? She was town and was held onto her piece to her last breath. I don't know how much we can take from this puzzle, but I guess now its been solved, everybody should post their pieces so we can complete the puzzle.

[Hinckley]

Do you recall Heartlake? I was found townie, despite saying I was confused numerous times. Ping.

I have been actively participating. And I explained that experienced players will be helpful later on in the game. That is why I voted for Flare. You voting for Flare helps you in no way if you are going to just use that against me, as well. Just a tip.

Not to mention, you have been reacting to posts quite harshly, not a very "Townie" way to act. Keep your cool.

Sorry if you're offended. I mean nothing by it and I don't find it all that harsh. I've been moving hastily and I think that has caused my posts to be a little brash. However, if we killed everyone in this group for acting like a dick, we'd be out of suspects pretty quickly. And I don't think I've been quite so offensive as I've been pressing people for reactions.

Speaking of Heartlake, I commented to someone earlier how much your post was like one of Katie's. You think being harsh is a Scum-tell? I think being defensive about being pressured is a Scum-tell, so there.

After reading to the last 4 pages of material (I was asleep what do you want...)

Hincks, I think you've cleared yourself up from any accusations of scum. If you were just voting for me for mayor because you didn't know me, then I'm not sure if that was the best idea but fine, no submotives.

Have I? How? Where? Was I specifically accused anywhere? All I recall saying to your accusation is that I didn't give a rat's megablocks if I was on your good side or not. Did that clear me? I like your hair. See how I'm being nice while just pressuring you to see your reaction?

I love you all.

Whatever.

I share with your sentiment that its probably best to put all the pieces on the table. The scum may or may not have released their pieces. I still wonder how somebody solved the question when the puzzle from the thread was still rather vague.

I held onto my piece because I wanted to try and have an advantage over the scum, but I looked at my piece later on and it turned out to be quite the useless piece in the puzzle, so I thought I'd share it, plugged in with the other pieces I assembled, just to help anybody else...

Anyway, I found your comment suspicious because it seemed to me, at the time, like something a scum would say in this circumstance. It's also clear that you were sticking around to try and solve the puzzle, too. It's really behavior of both town/scum, but something to me feels that it's scummy and odd. I'd probably place my vote on you if I had one to place (Banana Sphinx!!!!). I could be wrong, but its better to out my suspicions now (especially without the backing of my own vote) and see if anybody else agrees or disagrees with it.

I'd like to point out that Cecilie made a comment yesterday about her withholding a piece. I wonder if that had any influence in a killer's choice of her death? She was town and was held onto her piece to her last breath. I don't know how much we can take from this puzzle, but I guess now its been solved, everybody should post their pieces so we can complete the puzzle.

PirateDave explained how he came to a quick explanation. 1977 hit c'est was enough to google. I don't see the point in completing the puzzle when def has already given us the question and answer. Sounds like a waste of time. Am I missing something?

[JimBee]

I share with your sentiment that its probably best to put all the pieces on the table. The scum may or may not have released their pieces. I still wonder how somebody solved the question when the puzzle from the thread was still rather vague.

I held onto my piece because I wanted to try and have an advantage over the scum, but I looked at my piece later on and it turned out to be quite the useless piece in the puzzle, so I thought I'd share it, plugged in with the other pieces I assembled, just to help anybody else...

Anyway, I found your comment suspicious because it seemed to me, at the time, like something a scum would say in this circumstance. It's also clear that you were sticking around to try and solve the puzzle, too. It's really behavior of both town/scum, but something to me feels that it's scummy and odd. I'd probably place my vote on you if I had one to place (Banana Sphinx!!!!). I could be wrong, but its better to out my suspicions now (especially without the backing of my own vote) and see if anybody else agrees or disagrees with it.

I'd like to point out that Cecilie made a comment yesterday about her withholding a piece. I wonder if that had any influence in a killer's choice of her death? She was town and was held onto her piece to her last breath. I don't know how much we can take from this puzzle, but I guess now its been solved, everybody should post their pieces so we can complete the puzzle.

Fair enough. I do admit that I was sticking around trying to solve the puzzle, as were a few others including yourself. I had the same hopes to solve it before anyone else, but no such luck. Like I said earlier today, the only way someone would've gotten the right answer when we had so few pieces is if they had piece(s) of their own, so that's why I think the scum got it tonight. Or, of course, they read PirateDave's post and Googled it/Dave solved it.

[Flare]

Have I? How? Where? Was I specifically accused anywhere? All I recall saying to your accusation is that I didn't give a rat's megablocks if I was on your good side or not.

Well I'm pretty sure you explained that you voted for me as mayor, because you found me as the least-known among the players...

And yes your posts have been a bit brash

And since I haven't voted for mayor yet, I might as well right now: Mayor: Flare

[Scouty]

PirateDave explained how he came to a quick explanation. 1977 hit c'est was enough to google. I don't see the point in completing the puzzle when def has already given us the question and answer. Sounds like a waste of time. Am I missing something?

I'm more interested now in who had pieces than the answer of the question. Completing the puzzle would allow us to make a complete list of who had and who didn't have a puzzle piece and, minus cecilie's piece, we should be able to complete it, unless somebody is lying about not having a piece. Beyond that, we can analyze the list and maybe come to some conclusions from it. It is, after all, what we aimed to do with this puzzle, to see who would and who wouldn't give their pieces. There may be something to learn from such a tool and asking everybody to give their pieces now is one way to do it.

I see how somebody could have gotten it from piratedave's deductions...or maybe just got it n their own...it's tough to tell what really happened.

Would it be beneficial to ask whoever got the question right to reveal themselves?? It's not like they can be killed immediately and it's nothing really incriminating. As much as I can see, a townie would have no problem revealing that he/she was the one to answer the question. It would also answer our curiosities whether a scum or a townie got the immunity.

[Rick]

Last minutes plans have come up; I have to excuse myself for about 48 hours. I am going to a cottage with limited/no internet access; I will definitely be back to vote and be back before Sunday (Eastern time).

Hmm, that might not make you the best candidate for mayor then.

I was going to try and think of something funny to say about that, but looking at it, and given our situation, I don't see why the recruiters wouldn't just convert whoever became mayor.

Because they'd probably attract some other night actions too. Also, as Tammo suggests, there may be a role that prevents conversion.

Between Cornelius and Flare, I'll go for...

Mayor: CorneliusMurdock

I think that perhaps, if we do have a vig, they might have CHOSEN to not strike last night, because they knew so little. Vigs are, in past experience, a little more conservative than scum/pyscho killers. Of course, that's only if we have a vig. Again, in this situation, the scum's killer is sort of similar to a vig in the sense that they have only half of their team confirmed for them.

Still, they have to kill townies and they have the best chance of killing townies early in the game.

While I try to wrap my head around three pages of dickishness and acronyms, I'll put out there that it seems like it's in the scum's best interest to vote a Townie (or at least, a suspected Townie) as the Mayor and then recruit them that night.

I think they'll simply stay away from the mayor as he'll likely attract attention from other night actions and because the tie-breaker is more likely to be useful later on in the game.

Would it be beneficial to ask whoever got the question right to reveal themselves?? It's not like they can be killed immediately and it's nothing really incriminating. As much as I can see, a townie would have no problem revealing that he/she was the one to answer the question. It would also answer our curiosities whether a scum or a townie got the immunity.

If a townie got the question right and they're immune to the scum's kill (and possibly conversion too), then yes, that's not a very good idea, because the scum would know who not to target. But... you'd clear anyone coming forward from being scum?

As to asking everyone to reveal their puzzle pieces, it might be useful later on, but - given that Cecilie was withholding her piece too - I don't think we can really conclude too much from it right now.

[TrumpetKing]

Sorry if you're offended. I mean nothing by it and I don't find it all that harsh. I've been moving hastily and I think that has caused my posts to be a little brash. However, if we killed everyone in this group for acting like a dick, we'd be out of suspects pretty quickly. And I don't think I've been quite so offensive as I've been pressing people for reactions.

Speaking of Heartlake, I commented to someone earlier how much your post was like one of Katie's. You think being harsh is a Scum-tell? I think being defensive about being pressured is a Scum-tell, so there.

It's not that I'm offended, I really am not offended, I'm just finding it frustrating that when something sounds clear to me when I say it, someone else instantly sees that as a Scum-tell, because it really isn't. I do see how I can be scummy-sounding, but I definitely don't think that one post is good enough evidence for me being scum. I did explain why I thought it would be better to go for Flare as the mayor, which is the main reason that I did vote him. I don't think it would be a good idea to put experienced players that seem townie up for mayor, because as a few have said above, that is just asking for them to be converted, which wouldn't be good. Do I think it is a good idea to be using a lynch on me? No, the evidence doesn't entirely prove that I'm scum, it just doesn't have an entirely townie sound to it. Does that make me scum? No, I do realize that the things I say often sound scummy, I get a little too involved and serious with these games than I probably should. Who do I think would make a good lynch? I don't really know, I have a few people that I think could speak up a little bit, but we have a few more days to decide, so I don't think that should be stressed. It should be a thought, but not an immediate priority until tomorrow when voting starts.

[def]

Mayor Vote:

Flare 7 (Hinckley, Darkdragon, Zepher, Big Cam, CallMePie, TrumpetKing67, Flare)

CorneliusMurdock 10 (CorneliusMurdock, Dannylonglegs, Scouty, Tamamono, DarthPotato, Shadows, iamded, JimButcher, Nightshroud99, Rick)

It's a very interesting morning...

[Alopex]

Lot's has happened while I was asleep!

In a choice between Cornelius Murdock and Flare I shall choose: Mayor: Cornelius Murdock

As others have said, it will be easier to tell if he's converted. Also I don't think the scum will be able to convert anybody who becomes Mayor, since def said in the signup thread, that only a minority of the players can be recruited. The role of mayor isn't that important anyway, as there is little chance for a draw. If he's scum anyway, we shall be able to tell from is decisions.

[def]

The pharaoh returns.

"Who would like to challenge me in a game of chance? Again, up to five people may try to best me and double their vote."

[Flare]

As others have said, it will be easier to tell if he's converted. Also I don't think the scum will be able to convert anybody who becomes Mayor, since def said in the signup thread, that only a minority of the players can be recruited. The role of mayor isn't that important anyway, as there is little chance for a draw. If he's scum anyway, we shall be able to tell from is decisions.

Although I would enjoy being elected as mayor, I find that I have to agree with what you said here. It would be more beneficial for the town for someone like Cornelius to be in the position of mayor, because it'll be easier to tell if he's scum or not by his behavior.

But I have my suspicions that he is a scum in the first place, so we'll see.

The pharaoh returns.

"Who would like to challenge me in a game of chance? Again, up to five people may try to best me and double their vote."

I'm up for it, pharaoh.

This day has been boring so far so a game wouldn't hurt

[Alopex]

I'll play

[def]

Everyone's taking a nap, so we can wait a little bit to play. The game will start in half a hour.

[def]

Heartbreaking Hopefully more will try day two, when we try something other than Blackjack. Let's begin

The dealer shows...

Flare shows...

Alopex shows...

Hit or stay?

[Flare]

Hit.