2013 LEGO Pirates rumors and discussion.

[Brickington]

That said I do think a Classic Pirates release in 2014 is likely and if it does happen I agree it would seem silly not to re-use the wig piece for some of the minifigures.

That's what I believe.

[Maxim I]

I fear that it will be no pirates for 2013 (except then the corsair ship of LOTR, the rebellion soldier and the tiny soldier of the CMF).

But I am pretty sure there will be a new wave of POTC in 2014 (but probably second half)

[Sir E Fullner]

I just hope that if there is going to be a re-vamp of pirates, that there will be some kick-butt soldiers included. The two with the London Escape were good, but two soldiers are NEVER enough.

[Faefrost]

Isn't there another PotC movie in production? Just speculation on my part, but there is a chance that the PotC license might still be active and in force, just not on the production schedule until the new movie comes out. (Didn't HP have a few breaks?) it's also reasonable to peculate that Disney tends to favor exclusivity in their license contracts. See the recent failure of the Modular Western Town on CuuSoo, because it was in conflict with the Lone Ranger. Assuming that the contract between Disney and Lego is good for several years, it probably remains in force until or unless production on the next movie is cancelled or misses the planned schedule by a wide margin. Lego probably would not balk at that because a licensed Pirate set with an accompanying movie will do an order of magnitude more sales than an unlicensed Pirate line with no outside tie in. (Yeah I know it sucks. But that is one of the hard realities of the toy business.)

And really it's a no risk deal for Lego. As a worst case they delay an unlicensed Pirates line by a few release cycles. But almost everything they develop for PotC can be recycled into unlicensed resources should the films stop being made. Other than a handful of custom hairpieces pretty much everything can be shifted to new theme projects with naught but a color change and some new box art.

[Ridge Montante]

I was just hoping for some new pirate ships this year. And it sucks that I'd have to get the black pearl and QAR off ebay most likely. The only hope i got is the lotr corsair.

[Mister Phes]

Isn't there another PotC movie in production? Just speculation on my part, but there is a chance that the PotC license might still be active and in force, just not on the production schedule until the new movie comes out.

AH HAAAAA!!!

[Walter]

The script on the fifth film was completed some time ago, but I don't think Disney ever announced the movie or when it would come out.

[Grimmbeard]

This is all they have on it on imdb. It looks like it's gonna happen, and if it does there's a good chance there'll be some LEGO for it.

[Weil]

The 5th POTC movie may or may not start filming in 2014 but it certainly seems that it definately won't be released until the summer of 2015 earliest.

t's also reasonable to peculate that Disney tends to favor exclusivity in their license contracts. See the recent failure of the Modular Western Town on CuuSoo, because it was in conflict with the Lone Ranger.

I'm not sure what you mean, exclusivity in a license contract would normally mean in this case Lego is the only one who can produce POTC construction toys, not LEGO can't produce any other Pirate themed products. Indeed this sounds like a very strange thing to put in a contract to me.

As far as I was aware the modular western town was refused due to conflict with the Lone Ranger on the basis that LEGO didn't want to produce competing products that clashed with each other due to similarily but belonging to different themes and would be confusing for customers as well as putting an arguably higher amount of resources into western themes products than demand would warrant.

I think if another POTC film isn't going to be released until summer 2015 earliest then some classic pirate products in 2014 is far from inconceivable. Though I would agree another POTC film in 2015 is likely to mean more POTC Lego at the same time and definately makes classic pirate Lego in 2015 very unlikely and may mean the same for 2014 but I think the later is not so clear cut.

[Mister Phes]

I think if another POTC film isn't going to be released until summer 2015 earliest then some classic pirate products in 2014 is far from inconceivable.

If that was the case these products would need to have been concieved in mid 2012 at the latest.

[Grimmbeard]

If that was the case these products would need to have been concieved in mid 2012 at the latest.

So does that mean there won't be pirates until at least 2015?

[Mister Phes]

So does that mean there won't be pirates until at least 2015?

It doesn't mean anything...

[Faefrost]

I'm not sure what you mean, exclusivity in a license contract would normally mean in this case Lego is the only one who can produce POTC construction toys, not LEGO can't produce any other Pirate themed products. Indeed this sounds like a very strange thing to put in a contract to me.

As far as I was aware the modular western town was refused due to conflict with the Lone Ranger on the basis that LEGO didn't want to produce competing products that clashed with each other due to similarily but belonging to different themes and would be confusing for customers as well as putting an arguably higher amount of resources into western themes products than demand would warrant.

That sort of clause is EXTREMELY common in a licensing agreement. The licensor does not want the licensee to be creating a directly competing product line that is being fed and marketed by their licensed materials, but not offering them any financial return. It is highly likely that Legos in house Pirates line is on hold until the PotC contract is finished. The MWT was not killed because it might confuse consumers. It was far more likely killed simply because its subject matter was in direct conflict with the newly signed LR license.

The expectation of the IP owning Licencor's is that the Licensee (Lego in this case) will do everything in their power to support and promote their license, and not use it as a springboard or marketing tool to push their own or somebody else's. Now not all licenses demand absolute exclusivity. Disney is somewhat notorious for how tightly they write this stuff. WB less so. It has long been reliably rumored that the Star Wars Lego license expressly forbids any competing licenses such as Star Trek or BSG. Amazingly Lego looks to be one of the first companies to actually manage to avoid the exclusivity clauses for Comic Book Superheroes. At least since the days of Mego. For 20 or 30 years if you did anything for one you could not do anything for the other. (I think this is less a Lego thing and more someone at WB or Disney marketing finally wising up and putting a stop to it.)

Once again, this is quite common. In the case of Pirates, chances are TLG cannot make any in house Pirates sets at a minimum while PotC sets would be on the shelves, or within certain defined marketing periods for any PotC movies. If there won't be a new PotC movie until 2014, then the contract may allow them to do a short theme in 2013 so long as it is gone by movie time. But in all liklihood TLG wouldn't bother. They would be better off waiting for the marketing push from the next movie. The only exceptions would be for D2C exclusive type sets.

[Zeya]

In the case of Pirates, chances are TLG cannot make any in house Pirates sets at a minimum while PotC sets would be on the shelves, or within certain defined marketing periods for any PotC movies.

You may be right. But on the other hand, I thought the same would be true of LotR/Hobbit vs Castle, and yet we will have all those themes in wide release this year, Castle right next to Hobbit sets. I think it comes down to the contract itself, and nobody here is privy to that contract.

Granted, the Hobbit movie will be out of theaters at the point when Castle (re-)launches, but that still is quite a short lock-out of just a few months. So with the next PotC movie so far out, that at least gives hope that TLG could slip out a Pirates theme before it hits.

In summary: anything could happen. :) Let's hope some form of Pirates happens sooner than later.

Edited January 9, 2013 by Zeya

[Faefrost]

You may be right. But on the other hand, I thought the same would be true of LotR/Hobbit vs Castle, and yet we will have all those themes in wide release this year, Castle right next to Hobbit sets. I think it comes down to the contract itself, and nobody here is privy to that contract.

Granted, the Hobbit movie will be out of theaters at the point when Castle (re-)launches, but that still is quite a short lock-out of just a few months. So with the next PotC movie so far out, that at least gives hope that TLG could slip out a Pirates theme before it hits.

In summary: anything could happen. :) Let's hope some form of Pirates happens sooner than later.

I don't think LotR or Hobbit are considered quite the 1 to 1 relationship to Castle the way Western and Pirates are to their respective themes. There is a lot more wiggle room there. LotR really occupies that same sort of niche as Harry Potter more than it does Castle. Also WB's licensing department seems to be a little lighter about such things these days than Disneys.

I still suspect that the LotR Corsairs ship is in part a way for Lego to still give Pirates fans at least 1 new ship this year, even if it is something very different.

[Zeya]

I don't think LotR or Hobbit are considered quite the 1 to 1 relationship to Castle the way Western and Pirates are to their respective themes. There is a lot more wiggle room there. LotR really occupies that same sort of niche as Harry Potter more than it does Castle. Also WB's licensing department seems to be a little lighter about such things these days than Disneys.

You're probably right about Disney being more strict than WB. But still I wonder how long a lock-out on similar themes lasts. I find it hard to believe that PotC being all but gone from shelves and certainly not in production (minting copies of sets) would exclude the possibility of classic/yellow Lego Pirates for so long between movies. 2012 to what, 2015? That's a long stretch. On the other hand, there was about a decade gap between 1990's pirates and 2000s pirates, and that was without a PotC license. :( It's anyone's conjecture.

I still suspect that the LotR Corsairs ship is in part a way for Lego to still give Pirates fans at least 1 new ship this year, even if it is something very different.

Agreed; I also see that corsair ship as a concession gift to us pirate fans. I don't even think they were a big part of the movies, right? Of course it's been a few years since I saw them at this point.

Speaking of which, what information do we have on that LotR corsair ship? I think I missed the leaks.

[Weil]

There was a blury, low resolution, preliminary design image along with the same for the other 2013 LOTR sets.

[Faefrost]

You're probably right about Disney being more strict than WB. But still I wonder how long a lock-out on similar themes lasts. I find it hard to believe that PotC being all but gone from shelves and certainly not in production (minting copies of sets) would exclude the possibility of classic/yellow Lego Pirates for so long between movies. 2012 to what, 2015? That's a long stretch. On the other hand, there was about a decade gap between 1990's pirates and 2000s pirates, and that was without a PotC license. :( It's anyone's conjecture.

Agreed; I also see that corsair ship as a concession gift to us pirate fans. I don't even think they were a big part of the movies, right? Of course it's been a few years since I saw them at this point.

Speaking of which, what information do we have on that LotR corsair ship? I think I missed the leaks.

Lego plans and schedules themes 3+ years out. Even if the lockout is 18 to 24 months past the movies release. They would still probably hold the theme an extra year. If they know a new movie is coming out in 2015, but the lock releases in mid 2013 or 2014, chances are they will still wait for the movie for any new sets. It's just way to strong of a free marketing push.

We have seen a very blurry pic of the Corsairs Ship's box front. It's the big set of the next LotR wave. From what we see of the blurry pics it looks decent. Much like the movie it is a black narrow profile ship with triangular scalloped sails. My first thought was kind of halfway between the Black Pearl and the Ninjago Destiny's Bounty. (But without the Bounties horrid technic rear end).

[Bobsy]

My worry is that a PotC line in the future makes it near-impossible to launch a continuing Pirates line. Just like what happened with the 2009 revival, it would just be wiped off as soon as the PotC sets came out.

I really, really want a Bluecoats ship to challenge the Imperial Flagship. Only, you know, slightly smaller and weedier, because, well, *cough*.

Edited January 10, 2013 by Bobsy

[Grimmbeard]

Does anyone still have a link to the corsair ship? I can't seem to find it.

[Piranha]

I am personally hoping we see a surplus of pirate related minifigures in the CM series to supplement the past themes and give us new designs and parts.

[Brickington]

Does anyone still have a link to the corsair ship? I can't seem to find it.

Here thy go! You are welcome!

Edited January 11, 2013 by Mister Phes
: Blast! As the images were stamped "CONFIDENTIAL" we shouldn't even link to them.

[Faefrost]

One other concern to keep in mind in wishing for a new unlicensed Pirates theme. Look over at the new Castle sets. The rumored target for them is younger than expected. Reports are that Lego is looking to use them as more of a bridge up into the full scale Lego from he Duplo crowd. They assume the Hobbit and LotR stuff is feeding the AFOLs. The new Castle sets skew younger.

Now apply this thought to Pirates. Where is most of the non PotC toy related pirate activity going on right now? It's going young. Things like Disney properties such as Jake and the Pirates, or Fisher Prices Pirate lines. So if TLG were to release a in house Pirate line right now, what would it look like? Who would it be targeted at? What sort of price points would we be looking at for this group, and as a result what sort of set sizes? I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that a new variant of 10210 is not what we would expect?

[Grimmbeard]

Here thy go! You are welcome!

Wow! Thanks a lot! The ship looks great from about all I can see under the stamp.

Edited January 12, 2013 by Grimmbeard

[SkaForHire]

One other concern to keep in mind in wishing for a new unlicensed Pirates theme. Look over at the new Castle sets. The rumored target for them is younger than expected. Reports are that Lego is looking to use them as more of a bridge up into the full scale Lego from he Duplo crowd. They assume the Hobbit and LotR stuff is feeding the AFOLs. The new Castle sets skew younger.

Now apply this thought to Pirates. Where is most of the non PotC toy related pirate activity going on right now? It's going young. Things like Disney properties such as Jake and the Pirates, or Fisher Prices Pirate lines. So if TLG were to release a in house Pirate line right now, what would it look like? Who would it be targeted at? What sort of price points would we be looking at for this group, and as a result what sort of set sizes? I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that a new variant of 10210 is not what we would expect?

I guess I have not read that yet, is it certain that new Castle is a "bridge" theme? Are we talking Pirates Jr. here? That would be very disappointing. I still have a ton of those Pirates Jr. hulls that I can't fully find a good use for.