Ragnarök Now - Day Six

[Dragonator]

voting according to which is less risk is all there is to it. I know nothing for certain. Snotra's plan is plausible. It should be tested.

How is it plausible!? It is based on nothing and makes an atrocity of game mechanics!!

[CMP]

Rules

1. Each player will be given a character to play, who will be aligned with either the Einherjar (Town) or the Servants of Loki. To win the game, the Einherjar must kill off all the Servants of Loki, while the Servants of Loki must outnumber the Einherjar. Neutral characters have their own win conditions as outlined in their roles.

There, the theory is completely and totally undone. Servants have one win condition, and it's not to mess around with another conveniently completely identical scum team, it's to outnumber the town. All the crap Snotra's been spewing about a second scum is now utterly void, unless he's saying Odin is outright lying in the 10 Decrees of Valhalla.

Do you have another theory, Snotra? Is our secret scum faction actually a third party called the Servants of Thor?

This crap is starting to bore me. If any of you still want to dance around with the idea that Dragmall's working against the townies, so be it, we'll finish off the Servants without you.

[Scouty]

Canute's last two points should really dispel any remaining thoughts of actually going with Snotra's/Rurik's logic.

[Rick]

As I told you in PM Rurik, I unvoted Hervi because it occurred to me that Bergulf must be Artemis. We then roleclaimed to each other, I went away, and he said his group had decided to lynch Genaro. That's all there was to it.

At the start of Day Two, you were convinced Hervi was scum because of the way he accused you (and I agreed with his crappy logic in the case against you), you said you were suspicious of his supposed bodyguard roleclaim, and if you realised Bergulf was Artemis by then you must have concluded Hervi was scum controlling him and using him to 'verify' himself as Einherjar. Thus you should not have unvoted him. I'll say it again: you're smarter than this. You went along with his plan because he gave you Gerrid and, knowing his plans, you knew you could turn on him the next day.

Let's compare this to the town. Inventor, protector, investigator, and vigilante if you count Gofraid. Is that it? It is possible that Steinvoir had one, and I suppose Danr and Musuri could have too. That makes a total of 7, with only 4 confirmed and 3 vague possibilities. General mechanics would indicate that the town on average has at least 1.5x - 2x as many power roles as the scum. Sounding more ridiculous yet?

Finn had a backup role (illustrating the importance of Bergulf's role) and you probably killed our blocker along the way, as it would be the easiest explanation for the three blocks on one night. The scum weren't the typical informed minority here. They didn't know who their scum partners they needed to win were. So, by killing everyone that was not on their team, they risked killing off some of the other team which they ultimately needed for the majority against us. This can't be judged using typical views of 'balance'.

I'm so glad you weren't in the town block Snotra and Rurik, clearly you don't have the capacity to think outside the little box of "Dragmall must be scum!"

I've been trying to think outside the box the whole time and I quickly realised that, given the ease with which we were lynching and killing scum, there was a twist to this. And I don't think you can be surprised that given Ragnar is overseeing us, that there is a twist to this situation. Snotra nailed it and you know it.

There is nothing to lose by ignoring Dragmall's plan, and nothing to gain that cannot be gained tomorrow.

There is seemingly everything to lose by ignoring Snotra. And everything to gain if he is right.

Thanks for seeing the light, I was counting on you. I'm convinced Petrekr will make the right decision. That just leaves Sveinn.

Sveinn, you can believe Dragmall for now, but there is nothing to lose by going along with us now.

Yes, but we can assume Wary will target Petrus tonight, and being the last scum, she'd have no one to block the kill. Even if the conversion finished tonight, I can't imagine the scum would immediately gain control of Wary's kill so, we simply lynch Wary tomorrow to end the game. It makes no difference in the long run.

voting according to which is less risk is all there is to it. I know nothing for certain. Snotra's plan is plausible. It should be tested.

And yes I have read all that has been said. From both 'sides'.

Exactly.

Dragmall, how can even you not agree with this? If we're too stupid to see you're right, we'll let you convince us. We lynch you today and you can ask Wary to take care of Petrus tonight.

There, the theory is completely and totally undone. Servants have one win condition, and it's not to mess around with another conveniently completely identical scum team, it's to outnumber the town. All the crap Snotra's been spewing about a second scum is now utterly void, unless he's saying Odin is outright lying in the 10 Decrees of Valhalla.

The Servants have to outnumber the Town. The two sides just don't know who's on the other side, so if they go ahead and randomly kill people, they run the risk of hurting their own chances of winning. It doesn't contradict our win condition or yours. It. All. Fits.

[Dragonator]

The Servants have to outnumber the Town. The two sides just don't know who's on the other side, so if they go ahead and randomly kill people, they run the risk of hurting their own chances of winning. It doesn't contradict our win condition or yours. It. All. Fits.

So the Servants started with 11 people in a 26 person game? They only had to kill 4 townies by those odds and not kill each other to win right there?

Oh look, a note!

"Dear Rurik, You're a moron. Love, Lady Dolores"

Interesting!

Seriously Rurik, now you're twisting your own words. First the scum have to kill each other to win, now they have to outnumber the town and win with the other faction? Why would the second team have worked so hard to kill the first one then? There is nothing in the rules about one scum team having to kill the other scum team. Why then did Dagrun want to kill me so much? Why can't you see how stupid your logic is? Perhaps it is because you are scum, just like Petrus who you are defending so hard.

Face it. The rules say you are wrong. End of story.

[Chromeknight]

Hervi was frothing-mouth paranoid that there was a third faction. Perhaps he looked at the relatively low number of scum he knew and that formed the basis for his reasoning.

Conversion apparently takes two nights. What if someone targeted Dragmall two nights running with an action that does not kill? Did anyone do that?

[Dragonator]

I repeat, three factions is impossible. Read the rules.

I was clearly not converted because Dagrun wanted to kill me.

Here's an idea for you to consider Cranebeinn. What if Petrus, Rurik and Snotra are scum? They get me lynched today, taking out the town blocker. They complete their conversion tonight of Wary and kill one or two townies in the process. That makes 4 scum against 4 townies tomorrow. They win, end of game. That scenario is just as possible as the ridiculous third party theory. Even more so actually, since the third party theory breaks the rules of the game.

[Scubacarrot]

You are just flailing now.

I don't see how anyone can have a problem with us lynching Dragmall, and if Wary wants to be scummy, he can kill Petrus at night. The result would be the same.

I think it's like this: Two groups, probably of four scum each started this. They each thought THEY were the actual scum teams, in fact they both are. I don't see how the rules break with this.

I like to draw your attention on something Dagrun said: "We can't win if Dragmall is alive!" or something along those lines. You might brush that off as: Because Dragmall is the town leader, but it was not said that he'd be the smartest option. Dagrun's group NEEDED to kill Dragmall. I think this is why: If the scumleaders get their mirror killed, they get all the remaining members from that team, that's what makes most sense.

See: what happens. Option 1: We lynch Dragmall, Wary does his thing and kills Petrus. Result 1: Dragmall is found out scum, Petrus town. We were right, it's just a matter of mobbing up and Dragmall and Canute know it. Result 2(according to Dragmall and the league of Evil Gentlemen): Dragmall is town, Petrus is scum, According to Dragmall's whole theory (again, based on the words of a dead scum), the last scum would be dead. Town Wins anyway

Neither Result gets the town lost.

Option 2: We Lynch Petrus, Wary kills Rurik (I'm assuming?) . Result 1: Petrus is Town, according to a lot of what we've determined, this could very well cause the town to lose outright. Result 2: Petrus is scum, town wins.

So there are four possibilties, with two options. I say we take the one with the least risk, obviously. NOT TO MENTION IT ALL MAKES SENSE. You are just flailing and calling me stupid and dumb because you are in the corner. All I can say is: Crawl. More.

[Rick]

So the Servants started with 11 people in a 26 person game? They only had to kill 4 townies by those odds and not kill each other to win right there?

The role list Dagrun apparently sent to Wary included 'Converted', so conversion is definitely an possibility.

Seriously Rurik, now you're twisting your own words. First the scum have to kill each other to win, now they have to outnumber the town and win with the other faction? Why would the second team have worked so hard to kill the first one then? There is nothing in the rules about one scum team having to kill the other scum team. Why then did Dagrun want to kill me so much? Why can't you see how stupid your logic is?

Dagrun mentioned having to use individual PMs to communicate, so there clearly is/was something that made/makes the Servants distrust each other. Also, she clearly mentioned needing you dead to win. The Servants needs to outnumber us, but they're also battling each other. I think you won the scum battle last night by killing Dagrun and perhaps Beorn too. It actually makes me confident that we can still win this, because hopefully you will only have one kill at your disposal tonight.

Perhaps it is because you are scum, just like Petrus who you are defending so hard.

I'm defending Petrus so hard because he hasn't done anything scummy, unlike you. I can keep going over why, but you calling us scum is not going make you right.

Face it. The rules say you are wrong. End of story.

It's all within the rules. You're all Servants, but next to battling the Einherjar, you were also fighting each other. This is why you needed a shitload of actions.

I repeat, three factions is impossible. Read the rules.

There are no three factions. You can keep pointing to the rules, but Snotra's theory is entirely possible within the rules.

[MagPiesRUs]

Vote Count

Petrus Fire-Starter - 5 votes (CallMePie, Dragonator, Scouty, Waterbrick Down, Capt. Redblade)

Dragmall (Dragonator) - 4 votes (Pandora, Scubacarrot, Rick, Chromeknight)

With 11 players remaining, 6 votes are required to lynch.

[Scubacarrot]

So I just got this after I politely asked Dragmall to crawl.

You're such a moron!

Way to go screwing things up for the town. Really, you couldn't have done it more spectacularly.

I'm glad Sveinn has some sense and will never change his mind, so you're never getting a majority. Sorry!

THIS IS NOT ABOUT YOU OR PETRUS, IT'S ABOUT THE TOWN TO WIN. Even if you were town, you'd be okay with this. It's proven, the theory is sound, Wary could kill Petrus, it'd have EXACTLY the same result.

[Dragonator]

THIS IS NOT ABOUT YOU OR PETRUS, IT'S ABOUT THE TOWN TO WIN. Even if you were town, you'd be okay with this. It's proven, the theory is sound, Wary could kill Petrus, it'd have EXACTLY the same result.

I have no intention of letting you lynch the wrong person today and potentially screwing the town over when we are so close to victory. Luckily it isn't possible for you to do so.

You have no guarantee Wary will kill Petrus. You have no guarantee he won't be converted without me to block them tonight.

[Scubacarrot]

So who will cause Wary not to kill Petrus then, huh? Even if he is converted, what's stopping him from being lynched tomorrow? We've been over this.

And you bet it's possible. I believe the townies are smart. Unlike you. You are pretty dumb.

"There once was Dragmall the scuuuum. He was sooo Duuumb!!"

The end.

WAIT. I have an awesome idea.

So you say you need to believe to stop petrus from working his voodoo magic, right?

What if we lynch Canute. The theory still holds, and your arguments don't hold any weight that way.

GOT YA, SCUM.

Prepare for incoming BS. All stations!

[Scubacarrot]

Guess the fact you don't respond means you have to discuss it among teammates what type of lies to spew over this.

[WhiteFang]

Do we still have time to cast our votes before the day end? This is really too much for me to digest at one go, and I hope to take a quiet moment to understand the situation fully. I just can't believe there are 2 rival factions and I don't understand why others could stand fully and supportive for the one who is proposed to be convicted.

[Scubacarrot]

Think about it this way: Why are the scum so detrimental in not agreeing that Petrus could die at night? The result would be the same. If I am right, and we lose because there are townies out here that rather believe the scummy facemakers, I will be very disappointed in you.

[CMP]

Think about it this way: Why are the scum so detrimental in not agreeing that Petrus could die at night? The result would be the same. If I am right, and we lose because there are townies out here that rather believe the scummy facemakers, I will be very disappointed in you.

You're already a massive disappointment to all of us townies, it doesn't seem to have an affect on what you're doing.

Really, go ahead and lynch me. It'll be a lot easier to corner the remaining scum if we have a blocker, and I'd love to see the megablock justification you come up with for why I appear as einherjar tomorrow.

It's all within the rules. You're all Servants, but next to battling the Einherjar, you were also fighting each other. This is why you needed a shitload of actions.

There are no three factions. You can keep pointing to the rules, but Snotra's theory is entirely possible within the rules.

Wrong. Read it. Servants have to outnumber the Einherjar. That is it, there is no crap about killing eachother there.

Conversion apparently takes two nights. What if someone targeted Dragmall two nights running with an action that does not kill? Did anyone do that?

No. That's what happened to Petrus.

The Servants have to outnumber the Town. The two sides just don't know who's on the other side, so if they go ahead and randomly kill people, they run the risk of hurting their own chances of winning. It doesn't contradict our win condition or yours. It. All. Fits.

You're really think they're all that stupid? You really think they'd be so dumb as to completely ignore their own win condition and try to kill eachother, which Snotra's theory involves?

[Scubacarrot]

No it does not. Go read back. BYE.

And great. Unvote: Dragmall (Dragonator) Vote: Canute (Callmepie)

[CMP]

No it does not. Go read back. BYE.

This is why you've been completely in the dark during this whole situation, if you were still wondering. Nobody wants to align themselves with this.

Wilhalm, I really hope you're able to make up your mind before the day ends. I'm almost positive you're vanilla, based on last night, and I'm sorry you have to wade through this total mess of a day to reach your decision.

[Scubacarrot]

This is why you've been completely in the dark during this whole situation, if you were still wondering. Nobody wants to align themselves with this.

Wilhalm, I really hope you're able to make up your mind before the day ends. I'm almost positive you're vanilla, based on last night, and I'm sorry you have to wade through this total mess of a day to reach your decision.

So you say this now? After barely participating in the game and then becoming an insufferable twat today? To can play the insult game, dude. It's not going to make your case any stronger, but there you go.

Canute and Dragmall are spewing SO MUCH BULLCRAP. If you don't see it, I don't know what will. Nothing, probably.

[CMP]

Apparently lynching me is the only way to make you see we're not scum. If that's honestly what it takes to convince you, fine.

[Scubacarrot]

Okay can everyone vote and get this over with then?

[Scouty]

There's been a huge fuss being kicked up and I think we all need to a way to mesh both worlds and test the two different theories.

Lynching Canute and killing/blocking Petrus at night is the best way to do it, I think. It will test Snotra and Rurik's theories of a third faction or whatever as well as Dragmall's.

Both of you guys have produced the extremes, I won't say which is more truer than the other, it's time to compromise on this and get away from the extremes (Snotra, Dragmall's theories is not absurd, and Dragmall, there's at least some basis in their theories that, by now, we should test it).

Canute, sorry if you are Einherjar, but this is a team win and this is the best way to go. I'm hesitant in lynching our blocker and you are the next best thing to test the theory (unless you can offer somebody who you think would be more likely to be a part of this "third faction").

Now the only thing is if we can trust our broadsword killer to go through with it, too.

[Chromeknight]

unvote:Dragmall(Dragonator)

I cannot make there being five scum left add up. If Petrus is town and Dragmall not, it still won't be the end of the world.

vote:petrus

[Capt. Redblade]

There won't be a tomorrow if we lynch Petrus (but you know that). If we make the 5 person scum team go into the night with 4 they can, if one of the scum kills is indeed gone, only kill one of us and we can stay ahead.

Actually, that's a good point, assuming he's town, which he's not. However, assuming the third scum team does exist, and Dragmall isn't one of them, it's the same damn outcome either way.

That's not what I said at all.

Apologies. Carl must have misinterpreted your bizarre theory somewhere along the way.

You do seem rather sure of the second team's existence. Surely you must be open to the idea that Dragmall is not one of them. You claim there's still five scum on the secret team. There's 11 people here. Tomorrow there will be ten. By your own logic, either

A) We lynch Petrus, Petrus is Town, Scum win.

B) We lynch Dragmall, Dragmall is Town, Scum win.

C) We lynch Petrus, Petrus is Scum, Dragmall's Scum team still exists, Scum win.

D) We lynch Dragmall, Dragmall is Scum, four scum left to kill off the power roles, with possibility of a conversion. Scum win.

The way Carl understands it, your own logic is telling us there's no way out. Might as well have some fun, then.

Again, apologies if this is incorrect, but Carl is starting to get a splitting headache from all this.

I really, really hope you are part of them, because otherwise this post is epitome of dumbness. Really. Townies everywhere cringe after seeing this.

Talking to yourself, eh?

Seriously, Snotra, Carl does hope you will learn from this. Pretty much all you've done so far is attack people of both alignments for the mildest of infractions, real or otherwise. You've made no discernible effort to truly help us, you've tried to blackmail people into telling you what they know, you've made some very frenetic and off-the-wall accusations, and you've been very aggressive and antagonistic this whole time.

Your company is not particularly enjoyable and, looking at how you interact with others, Carl understands why you have not been let into the town block. What honest, Tohstre-fearing Townie would want to put up with this?

If Carl weren't so sure of Petrus, Carl would be willing to lynch you just to silence you for good.