Large Scale Technic Cars

[MarcusB]

No parts in the model are forced, and none pull apart. It fits together well. However you need to build it to see that.

So in the picture that you have posted, none of the axles are pulling out of the connectors on the front windscreen and doors, and none of the axles are twisitng or bending in odd ways? I suppose it is just an optical illusion on my part then.

[Jurgen Krooshoop]

The reason i charge is due to the time it takes to build and put together instructions. I do not force people to buy them. Perhaps you should build the model? confirm if it is as flawed as your expert eye predicts?

skyliner

Skyliner, I completely understand & respect your point, as I know how incredibly much time it takes to make full instructions. But still I provide my instructions (& CAD-files) for free as I consider it a great honour if other Lego-fans build my models and get inspired by it. And it's my way of fighting against our economic world, where everything is about money . The parts are expensive enough already.

And if you provide free instructions, it's much easier to see how well it is constructed, preventing people from saying parts are forced together. I would definately build the Countach if instructions were free. Would it be possible to mail me the instructions at info@jurgenstechniccorner.com without having to pay for them ? I promise I won't distribute them to others.

If I'd have to buy them, then I will not build the model, sorry.

Edited February 7, 2011 by Jurgen Krooshoop

[skyliner]

Skyliner, I completely understand & respect your point, as I know how incredibly much time it takes to make full instructions. But still I provide my instructions (& CAD-files) for free as I consider it a great honour if other Lego-fans build my models and get inspired by it. And it's my way of fighting against our economic world, where everything is about money . The parts are expensive enough already.

And if you provide free instructions, it's much easier to see how well it is constructed, preventing people from saying parts are forced together. I would definately build the Countach if instructions were free. Would it be possible to mail me the instructions at info@jurgenstechniccorner.com without having to pay for them ? I promise I won't distribute them to others.

If I'd have to buy them, then I will not build the model, sorry.

Hello Jurgen

Your instructions are really very well done, what CAD programmes did you use?

[RockeTeK]

@skyliner: Personally I do not mind paying a small amount for instructions. However, GBP12,99 is high! :O

@Jurgen: your instructions look great, and so do the two little devils on the shelf... Ty

[Jurgen Krooshoop]

Hello Jurgen

Your instructions are really very well done, what CAD programmes did you use?

I use MLCad for making digital Lego models, LDView (through LPub) for making construction-step-images and LPub for making Parts-list-images. All these programs can be downloaded for free at www.ldraw.org. Then I put everything together in MS Word. Unfortunately, some image-quality is lost after converting the Word-document into a PDF-file. I still haven't found a good conversion program.

BTW, it would be really nice if you could answer my question as well. I'll respect any answer, as long as you're honest.

@skyliner: Personally I do not mind paying a small amount for instructions. However, GBP12,99 is high! :O

@Jurgen: your instructions look great, and so do the two little devils on the shelf... Ty

Thanks big time !!

Edited February 7, 2011 by Jurgen Krooshoop

[legolijntje]

Unfortunately, some image-quality is lost after converting the Word-document into a PDF-file. I still haven't found a good conversion program.

Thanks big time !!

Do you use word 2007/2010?

If so, there is an option at "save as" to save as PDF.

If I save something on this way, the quality isn't getting worser.

[Blakbird]

So in the picture that you have posted, none of the axles are pulling out of the connectors on the front windscreen and doors, and none of the axles are twisitng or bending in odd ways? I suppose it is just an optical illusion on my part then.

It's not an optical illusion, but it is an artifact of the difference between CAD and the real world. In real LEGO, there is a small amount of compliance and small gaps between parts. These aren't very big, but they are enough to allow small adjustments in alignment without forcing any parts. This is not possible in CAD. It is also not unique to MOCs. If you start building models in CAD, you'll see that a great number of even official LEGO sets do not have parts that all completely align when built in CAD. This is especially true of angle connectors. Many helicopter canopies are examples of this.

If you want to judge the quality of the fit on Skyliner's model, you should look at his photographs of the real thing, not my renders. You won't see any of those gaps.

If I'd have to buy them, then I will not build the model, sorry.

Well, I'll be building the model within the next couple of weeks, so I guess I can put the matter to rest then, assuming that people will trust my word on the matter without proving it for themselves.

On a more important note, now that we have good pictures of the Unimog from the toy fair, we can confirm that quite a number of orange liftarms and panels are now available. Now we simply need someone with some time on their hands to figure out if it would be possible to built the Countach in orange like the render if one had a large number of Unimogs and any other currently available source of orange parts. Skyliner, would you object if I posted a parts list of the orange parts which would be required? It seems that the angle connectors and flex hoses would be the hardest.

Edited February 7, 2011 by Blakbird

[Jurgen Krooshoop]

Do you use word 2007/2010?

If so, there is an option at "save as" to save as PDF.

If I save something on this way, the quality isn't getting worser.

I use Offive 2003, so unfortunately I don't have that option in my software.

Well, I'll be building the model within the next couple of weeks, so I guess I can put the matter to rest then, assuming that people will trust my word on the matter without proving it for themselves.

I don't think I understand what you mean.

Edited February 7, 2011 by Jurgen Krooshoop

[RockeTeK]

I use MLCad for making digital Lego models, LDView (through LPub) for making construction-step-images and LPub for making Parts-list-images. All these programs can be downloaded for free at www.ldraw.org. Then I put everything together in MS Word. Unfortunately, some image-quality is lost after converting the Word-document into a PDF-file. I still haven't found a good conversion program.

Thanks big time !!

I have no experience at all with CAD programs etc, but if you can provide a series of pictures, I can convert them for you, using Adobe Pro suite.

Please provide a test file if you are interested!

And np!

Edited February 7, 2011 by RockeTeK

[Blakbird]

I don't think I understand what you mean.

My point is that Skyliner is saying that the parts are not stressed, but yet people seem not to believe him. I'm saying that I'm going to build the model and then I will confirm whether or not the parts are stressed. Will people believe me? I don't know. Maybe some people just have to build it for themselves. I am hoping that people will accept that I'm being honest.

[skyliner]

Skyliner, I completely understand & respect your point, as I know how incredibly much time it takes to make full instructions. But still I provide my instructions (& CAD-files) for free as I consider it a great honour if other Lego-fans build my models and get inspired by it. And it's my way of fighting against our economic world, where everything is about money . The parts are expensive enough already.

And if you provide free instructions, it's much easier to see how well it is constructed, preventing people from saying parts are forced together. I would definately build the Countach if instructions were free. Would it be possible to mail me the instructions at info@jurgenstechniccorner.com without having to pay for them ? I promise I won't distribute them to others.

If I'd have to buy them, then I will not build the model, sorry.

As you have provided all your highly detailed instructions FOC to me it would only be fair for me to send you a copy of the countach.

regards

skyliner

It's not an optical illusion, but it is an artifact of the difference between CAD and the real world. In real LEGO, there is a small amount of compliance and small gaps between parts. These aren't very big, but they are enough to allow small adjustments in alignment without forcing any parts. This is not possible in CAD. It is also not unique to MOCs. If you start building models in CAD, you'll see that a great number of even official LEGO sets do not have parts that all completely align when built in CAD. This is especially true of angle connectors. Many helicopter canopies are examples of this.

If you want to judge the quality of the fit on Skyliner's model, you should look at his photographs of the real thing, not my renders. You won't see any of those gaps.

Well, I'll be building the model within the next couple of weeks, so I guess I can put the matter to rest then, assuming that people will trust my word on the matter without proving it for themselves.

On a more important note, now that we have good pictures of the Unimog from the toy fair, we can confirm that quite a number of orange liftarms and panels are now available. Now we simply need someone with some time on their hands to figure out if it would be possible to built the Countach in orange like the render if one had a large number of Unimogs and any other currently available source of orange parts. Skyliner, would you object if I posted a parts list of the orange parts which would be required? It seems that the angle connectors and flex hoses would be the hardest.

Skyliner, would you object if I posted a parts list of the orange parts which would be required? It seems that the angle connectors and flex hoses would be the hardest.

ok by me.

skyliner

Edited February 7, 2011 by skyliner

[MarcusB]

Blakbird, I am not talking about the renders that you made, I am talking about the real pictures that are posted. In the photo that DLuders posted, you can see that the angle connectors don't quite fit together tightly around the windscreen and doors,and if they did then they would be forcing other parts out of alignment or slightly bending them. That probably explains why you say your parts in the renders don't line up either. Like I said before, it looks like a good model.

[MarcusB]

Ok, just out of curiosity, I built the windscreen based off of this picture of the model part for part and I can confirm that the parts do not line up and pieces are being flexed and pulling apart. there is slightly more than an 1/2 of a #2 axle space gap at the bottom of the windscreen and If you push the 2 connectors together is slightly flexes the entire top. I understand this may not be a big deal to some people, but my point is if you are selling instructions for something, then they should not require bending of parts.

[Blakbird]

Ok, just out of curiosity, I built the windscreen based off of this picture of the model part for part and I can confirm that the parts do not line up and pieces are being flexed and pulling apart. there is slightly more than an 1/2 of a #2 axle space gap at the bottom of the windscreen and If you push the 2 connectors together is slightly flexes the entire top. I understand this may not be a big deal to some people, but my point is if you are selling instructions for something, then they should not require bending of parts.

I think not everyone would agree on that point. Whether or not parts are "bent" does not necessarily make a model good or bad, and even bad models may be purchased by some people, and some good models may be free. In my opinion, some of the very best models of all time require stressing of parts to assemble, including Jennifer Clark's JCB JS220 excavator.

I do agree with you that I prefer not to damage parts or strain them if it is avoidable. But with only 22.5 degree increments of angle to work with and integral lengths of axles, it is just not possible to make perfect closed loops that are not square. Some people are fine with this fact, others are not.

In any case, we're WAY off topic. I don't like criticizing people's MOCs, creations from their own imaginations. Skyliner made a model and took the time to make very detailed instructions. People can disagree on whether or not they like the MOC, and they can disagree on whether or not they would pay for it. But I don't think anyone should be saying a MOC doesn't deserve to be sold just because they don't like it. There's plenty of official LEGO models that I don't like, so I just don't buy them. That's not an indictment of the creator, those models are just not for me.

To get back on topic, I'll be putting Skyliner's Countach on the shelf with my other cars, and I feel it deserves to be there. Thanks for creating it, Skyliner.

[MarcusB]

Blakbird I never said that it shouldn't be sold because I didn't like it, I said several times that it was a good model. But being a Lego purist, I am just saying that I personally couldn't justify selling instructions for something that required bending and possibly damaging parts for 12.99 GBP.

[Blakbird]

Blakbird I never said that it shouldn't be sold because I didn't like it, I said several times that it was a good model. But being a Lego purist, I am just saying that I personally couldn't justify selling instructions for something that required bending and possibly damaging parts for 12.99 GBP.

Understood. However, as I said earlier, several official LEGO models do the same thing. As I understand the definition of LEGO purism, anything that LEGO has done in an official set is acceptable.

[MarcusB]

Blakbird, could you give some examples of some Technic models from Lego that flex and stress parts like this? I have built many sets and do not recall ever building something that that broke the Lego Rules like this. Perhaps you could start a new thread devoted to that subject as to not change the subject here.

[Blakbird]

Blakbird, could you give some examples of some Technic models from Lego that flex and stress parts like this? I have built many sets and do not recall ever building something that that broke the Lego Rules like this. Perhaps you could start a new thread devoted to that subject as to not change the subject here.

Although the topic is of passing interest, I have a lot of LEGO projects I would rather be spending time on than tracking down sets which stress parts. I don't recall which sets off hand. But I do recall building some CAD files for Technicopedia and for renders of later models which had the same problem. I also remember noticing it in a few cases while rebuilding every Technic set over the last year. In any case, I don't think we need to spend any more bandwidth on the topic.

[rgbrown]

Blakbird, could you give some examples of some Technic models from Lego that flex and stress parts like this? I have built many sets and do not recall ever building something that that broke the Lego Rules like this. Perhaps you could start a new thread devoted to that subject as to not change the subject here.

8295 Telehandler. They stuck 3L liftarms (with boss and pin) to hold the mudguards into the middle of the steering linkage as if it were a parallelogram, which it isn't. Whenever you steer it, the geometry gets stressed. See picture for what I mean.

[Ultimario]

I recall a "stressed" part in the Ferrari F1 1:8 scale, set 8674.

The rear suspension has the pivot points of the driving shaft at different place than the supension itself so when the rear suspension moves up and down the loosest connection of the driving shaft will move in and out. Hardly noticeable but still a flaw that upsets the hyperpurists, for me it just proved that suspension and drive shafts don't have to match 100% geometrically and still work with no noticeable downsides.

[AndyC]

Even 8043 has a long blue connector pin used in a position that puts it and the beam it goes through under stresses that are strictly speaking allowed. It's not that big an issue, though left for a long period of time could cause damage to the part. Lego designers aren't supposed to let any of these slip into current models but every now and again one turns up.

[Plastic Nurak]

If the plastic used in these sets were of the same high quality as it was until the end of Nineties, I guess most of these "stresses" could pass unnoticed .

[phool]

I'll be putting Skyliner's Countach on the shelf with my other cars, and I feel it deserves to be there. Thanks for creating it, Skyliner.

Be sure togive us an update with some pictures once it's there

[Plastic Nurak]

Blakbird:

This is not possible in CAD. It is also not unique to MOCs. If you start building models in CAD, you'll see that a great number of even official LEGO sets do not have parts that all completely align when built in CAD. This is especially true of angle connectors. Many helicopter canopies are examples of this.

It wasn't a canopy, but I never was able to put these part in the image below at the correct angulation:

Sets is #8444. Or it was too high or it entered into the piece under.

Excuse me, Eric, if I didn't finish the work .

Edited February 10, 2011 by Plastic Nurak

[JunkstyleGio]

And now back to Blakbird original question please!