Will the Fantasy Theme Survive?

[HumanPackMule]

I think that unless they expand into another faction as many other people have said, it is doomed to fail. People get bored with the same factions and same sets. While three out of four of the factions are cool (can you guess which one is not ), I want more variety.

Dwarves?

[allencao3]

I dont think the fantasy theme will die out any time soon. There are whole lots of things to be added into it imo.

Village-themed sets will definitely be one of the directions like more houses, cottages, churches or a city hall with a bell tower. These are of course just my speculations now but shouldn't the popularity of medieval market have said something to TLC?

Looking back at the castle history, a lot of factions did have more than 1 base. But except for the King's Castle, a tower and a drawbridge, we don't have anything else. Another castle or fortress for the crownies with some new designs should be another direction to follow. And of course, same applies to dwarves because the dwarven constructions have been quiet for ever after the 1 mine 2 years ago.

And introduction of a new faction (and of course the whole new style of buildings and stuff) is inspiring! I can't even imagine how lame a fantasy line is without elves!

If these are the ways to go, fantasy castle fans like myself will have at least another 3 years before an alternative castle line shows up.

[Sandy]

Looking back at the castle history, a lot of factions did have more than 1 base.

I can't agree with this. As far as I know, all the past factions had only one big castle to their name. Sure, there were some smaller towers and such, but Crown Knights have those too.

Here's the "bases":

375 Castle (the yellow one) for the original knights

6080 King's Castle for the Lion Knights

6074 Black Falcon's Fortress for the Black Falcons

6085 Black Monarch's Castle for the Black Knights

6077 Forestmen's River Fortress for the Forestmen (they admittedly had several smaller bases, as well)

6081 King's Mountain Fortress for the Crusaders

6075 Wolfpack Tower for the Wolfpack

6082 Fire Breathing Fortress for the Dragon Knights

6090 Royal Knight's Castle for the Royal Knights

6079 Dark Forest Fortress for the Dark Forestmen

6097 Night Lord's Castle for the Fright Knights

6093 Flying Ninja Fortress for the Ninja (there were many small factions with their own bases, though)

6098 King Leo's Castle for the Knights' Kingdom I

8781 The Castle of Morcia for the Knight's Kingdom II

8877 Vladek's Dark Fortress for the Scorpion Knights

10176 King's Castle for the reimagination of Knight's Kingdom I

7094 King's Castle Siege for the Crown Knights

7093 Skeleton Tower for the Undead

7036 Dwarves' Mine for the Dwarves

7097 Trolls' Mountain Fortress for the Trolls

Did I prove my point already? It has always been one base per faction in most cases.

[blueandwhite]

I can't agree with this. As far as I know, all the past factions had only one big castle to their name. Sure, there were some smaller towers and such, but Crown Knights have those too.

Here's the "bases":

375 Castle (the yellow one) for the original knights

6080 King's Castle for the Lion Knights

6074 Black Falcon's Fortress for the Black Falcons

6085 Black Monarch's Castle for the Black Knights

6077 Forestmen's River Fortress for the Forestmen (they admittedly had several smaller bases, as well)

6081 King's Mountain Fortress for the Crusaders

6075 Wolfpack Tower for the Wolfpack

6082 Fire Breathing Fortress for the Dragon Knights

6090 Royal Knight's Castle for the Royal Knights

6079 Dark Forest Fortress for the Dark Forestmen

6097 Night Lord's Castle for the Fright Knights

6093 Flying Ninja Fortress for the Ninja (there were many small factions with their own bases, though)

6098 King Leo's Castle for the Knights' Kingdom I

8781 The Castle of Morcia for the Knight's Kingdom II

8877 Vladek's Dark Fortress for the Scorpion Knights

10176 King's Castle for the reimagination of Knight's Kingdom I

7094 King's Castle Siege for the Crown Knights

7093 Skeleton Tower for the Undead

7036 Dwarves' Mine for the Dwarves

7097 Trolls' Mountain Fortress for the Trolls

Did I prove my point already? It has always been one base per faction in most cases.

Lion Knights 6080 King's Castle & 6081 King's Mountain Fortress (they also had the lion's share of the modular wall sections)

Black Falcons 6073 Knight's Castle, 6074 Black Falcon's Fortress

Black Knights 6085 Black Monarch's Castle & 6086 Black Knight's Castle

Moreover, most of the 80s to mid-90s factions also benefited from a wide assortment of modular sections that could be used to enhance previous sets. There were 4 major modular sections for the Lion Knights; 6040, 6041, 6061 and 6067, one for the Black Falcons; 6062 and two for the Black Knights 6059 and 6034.

Also let's not forget that the Forestmen had nothing but small small outposts and fortresses. Between the forestmen and their dark bretheren we had no less than 6 decent-sized outposts; 6046, 6054, 6066, 6071, 6077, and 6079. The big difference is that the older castle sets placed a greater emphasis on solid (if not compact) structures. The sets were integrated well and most factions had several buidlings and structures to go along with them. The fantasy line most certainly places its emphasis on figures. It's not a bad line (in fact it's an excellent one), but the fact that so many folks are bemoaning the lack of elves as marking the end of castle speaks volumes about how figure-driven this line truly is.

[SWMAN]

Dwarves?

Actually, I was thinking the Skellies. While their horses and sets are cool, the minifigs themselves are pretty lame.

[Norro]

Lion Knights 6080 King's Castle & 6081 King's Mountain Fortress (they also had the lion's share of the modular wall sections)

Black Falcons 6073 Knight's Castle, 6074 Black Falcon's Fortress

Black Knights 6085 Black Monarch's Castle & 6086 Black Knight's Castle

Dang, beaten to my comment again...

God Bless,

Nathan

[Sandy]

Lion Knights 6080 King's Castle & 6081 King's Mountain Fortress (they also had the lion's share of the modular wall sections)

Black Falcons 6073 Knight's Castle, 6074 Black Falcon's Fortress

Black Knights 6085 Black Monarch's Castle & 6086 Black Knight's Castle

I stand corrected, I apologize.

But if Castle does continue next year (no matter if Fantasy continues or not), I'm quite certain we'll see a new human castle.

[Svelte]

The big difference is that the older castle sets placed a greater emphasis on solid (if not compact) structures. The sets were integrated well and most factions had several buidlings and structures to go along with them. The fantasy line most certainly places its emphasis on figures. It's not a bad line (in fact it's an excellent one), but the fact that so many folks are bemoaning the lack of elves as marking the end of castle speaks volumes about how figure-driven this line truly is.

I can appreciate your argument, but if Fantasy continues on without change in 2010 then that will be four years that the same factions have been present (Dwarves and Trolls having been present since the mine set was released at the end of 07). How many of the older Castle factions underwent such little change in 4 years? A quick flick through brickset or the Collecter's Guide shows that the Castle line produced more simultaneously existing factions than any other line (surely a sign how important minifigs were even then), even if the sets were reduced in number overall and some themes spread sporadically over a few years. Variety was built in to the Castle line almost from the start with the introduction of Black Falcons, so it isn't particularly unreasonable for modern fans to seek similarly broad horizons.

I think you're also missing the point that many of those who want a new faction are looking forward to a different style of building in terms of structures and vehicles as well. I think most of us agree that for the three non-exclusive sets released in 2009, the figs have been good while the designs have been lacklustre to mediocre. I sense a fair amount of desire for new aesthetics and set styling more than just for a faction of Elves per se, for example.

[blueandwhite]

I can appreciate your argument, but if Fantasy continues on without change in 2010 then that will be four years that the same factions have been present (Dwarves and Trolls having been present since the mine set was released at the end of 07). How many of the older Castle factions underwent such little change in 4 years? A quick flick through brickset or the Collecter's Guide shows that the Castle line produced more simultaneously existing factions than any other line (surely a sign how important minifigs were even then), even if the sets were reduced in number overall and some themes spread sporadically over a few years. Variety was built in to the Castle line almost from the start with the introduction of Black Falcons, so it isn't particularly unreasonable for modern fans to seek similarly broad horizons.

A quick check shows that most of the castle line remained relatively consistent for eight years. The post-yellow castle classic line ran from 1984 until 1992 with the Falcon and Lion knights. It wasn't until 1988 that the Forestmen and Black Knights came onto the scene and it took another four years for the three Wolfpack sets to appear. Classic castle was very consistent for almost a decade. It wasn't until the 90s that LEGO started throwing in a new faction (while tossing out an old one) each year. In fact, I suspect that the constant faction changes and lackluster sets of the 90s contributed largely to the demise of the original castle line. Variety goes beyond figure selection.

I think you're also missing the point that many of those who want a new faction are looking forward to a different style of building in terms of structures and vehicles as well. I think most of us agree that for the three non-exclusive sets released in 2009, the figs have been good while the designs have been lacklustre to mediocre. I sense a fair amount of desire for new aesthetics and set styling more than just for a faction of Elves per se, for example.

This has always been a problem with figure-driven sets. The fantasy line has become tired not because of a lack of minifigs, but due to dull set designs. Throwing Elves into the mix doesn't negate that issue. Dwarves and Trolls certainly didn't bring about an improvement in basic set design with the fantasy line. Heck, the 2007 sets are still probably the best of the lot.

I find that the castle theme draws in two very different camps of LEGO fan. On the one hand you've got the figure driven fan who sees the minifig as being the key element to a good set. For this fan, a new faction is a must to keep the line fresh. On the other side of the table is the set fan. For this fan, set design is paramount. Yes; most people want both to some degree, however this is a question of priority. Those who feel that the future of the castle line is dependant on Elves are most certainly focused on figures. They want these figures to complete their Tolkienesque worlds. For me, I'd much rather see a line that puts greater care and emphasis on set design. This is where the city line has always excelled. The firefighters, policemen and paramedics of the city theme are pretty generic. It's the range of structures and vehicles that makes the line interesting.

[Klaus-Dieter]

After a long time in which I was unsure about how the future of Castle will look like I'm now very sure that we'll see no Castle sets next year.

I could well imagine that we'll see another new historical theme - either Greeks, Romans or Western - next year and then in 2011 a new Castle theme (whether it'll then be fantasy again, Forestmen, Ninja or more like Classic Castle I don't know since it is hard to say - I personally would prefer a mixture between Classic Castle and Forestmen).

Klaus-Dieter

Edited August 6, 2009 by Klaus-Dieter

[Nuju Metru]

I hope so. The Castle sets have been oh-so-useful part packs for my own fantasy MOCs. However, realistically, I think the line has jumped the shark. :/

-Nuju Metru

[Nikola Bathory]

Honestly, the line is predominantly a minifig line for most people. The sets are pretty much throwaway afterthoughts. I figure the line is pretty much dead simply because people only want new fantasy figs; not new sets. A new castle or a new dungeon won't appeal to fans. The difference with this line and earlier castle lines was that with earlier lines, buyers were fans of the castle theme itself. They actually wanted fortresses towers and other medieval structures. With the fantasy theme, the structures are basically a dumping ground for figs. In that sense, people who were waiting for elves are probably done with the theme even if it does continue another year.

You know, I completely agree with this post!

This is sad, the Castle theme was much better when I was a kid, the current Castle sets are not very good - the structures are not very interesting, indeed it's all focused on the minifigs.... I want better castles and other structures, like those from the 80's and early 90's.

[pedro]

I really hope the Castle line continues - Castle is one of the many new and inspiring themes that has taken me from just being a Star Wars AFOL!

Admittedly this year’s selection so far is but a handful - and wholly not the best conceived sets either – but from the viewpoint of a genre as a whole, Fantasy has so much to offer and so much untapped in terms of LEGO. Not only this, there is much more that can be expanded upon in the theme – some of which touched upon here by our members already. The wonderful Medieval Market Village is a great indicator of how the theme can flourish and pleased standard Castle and Fantasy Era fans alike.

A few ideas I had…

More castles for Crown Knights – why limit to only one large castle? A new castle with modular sets and layout would go down a treat I’m sure, especially with a detail level to match the MMV. Which brings me to…

More civilians sets – MMV only touched upon what could be an awesome expansion to the Castle line! Add sets to new Crown castle and create a fortified town.

Second Human Faction – in the absence of Elves why not? Whether it be Forestmen, alternate knights, brigands… there’s a lot of possibility there!

More Fantasy – there’s sooo much more can be done here! As well as expansion on current Fantasy races - i.e. Undead Necorpolis, Troll lairs, Dwarven war-machines - there could be more development of wizards and witches: wizard's tower, witch's house; and extra races, monsters and creatures such as wolfen, ogre, giants, gryphon, etc.

These aren’t so much financial or straight out marketplace reasons as to why LEGO would or wouldn’t continue the Castle theme, but a quick scatter of creative ideas which would surely justify its continuation.

Here’s hoping!

Edited August 10, 2009 by pedro

[DaleDVM]

If castle takes a break I will save money and try to get the few sets I don't have yet from long ago. Ebay here I come! Castle is the only theme that I collect. I may buy some PoP sets for the parts but will have to see. It is unlikely I will buy many sets at all over the next couple of years.

Why is it exactly that people think the current sets are so badly designed? I think people unfortunately remember how cool they were back when they were younger and therefore were more easily impressed by lego castles. I challenge you to go back and rebuild the old sets. They are incredibly simple builds and lack many of the structural components included on todays creations. I have almost every castle set ever made in my garage right now. I can honestly say when you sit them side by side that King's castle siege is about as good as any of the old sets from the 80's and early 90's. It has its flaws for sure, the open tower and the lack of a proper gatehouse. But then again most of the old castles had those open towers as well.

The dwarf mine is an excellent design unlike anything ever released before.

Also the current siege towers, catapults, and war machines released from the fantasy line are way way better than the classic versions.

I do agree that the figures are an important part of the fantasy line. But then again the figs were important in the past too. It is just that the figures are of better quality now and people really like them.

I certainly think that we have enough crownies for... well... forever! If you don't have enough crownies by now then you haven't been buying castle the last 3 years. A new human faction would be fine by me. Elves would even be better. But I doubt we will get them for atleast a couple of years.

As far as the poll goes. Unfortunately this line is dying for now. When castle comes back I think they will keep to the fantasy genre because kids like the obvious bad guys instead of having 2 human factions. For the hardcore castle fans who hate fantasy. You will keep getting a smattering of castles and civilian sets as there will always be one human faction to fight the baddies.

PoP will keep the number of castle sets to a minimum next year. I've heard of another civilian set but that is about it.

Also there is some talk of Harry Potter coming out for another release again. If it happens it will put castle on hiatus for sure until those lines die out again.

To anyone who wishes the death of the fantasy castle line...

[ziljin]

I just want more trolls, skeletons and dwarves. I love fantasy. I buy sets for bricks and minifigs, so the look of the set doesnt concern me much. But if its great, I would incorporate the designs to future creations. More civilians would be nice. I want to make sort of a feudal castle type of moc. Modular of course. Some farms on the outside with villagers, and a castle in the center. And tons of trolls/skeletons raiding them.