How do companies get away with copying Lego?

[Eilif]

The important thing to realise here is that it's not the law's job to protect monopolies. Quite the contrary, in fact. Copyright, patent and trademarks are artificial monopolies granted to a company or person, because they're assumed to be beneficial to the public. That's what this is about: the public....

...Trademark is the only one that's supposed to be unlimited, because it protects a brand name, and it's useful...

... that we can distinguish Lego bricks from MB bricks because the Lego ones are much higher quality, and they're what we want. But if anyone is willing to accept lower quality for a lower price, then there's a market for competitors. That's how the free market works. As long as they're not being marketed as Lego bricks, it's only good that MB bricks are compatible with Lego...

... Competition is important.

Great post, I just wanted to post up a condensed version of your "greatest hits" for those who might be tempted to skip reading the entire thing. In our adoration for our "sacred cow" brands (LEGO, Disney, etc) we often forget that in free market societies, copyright and trademark laws have effective means for protecting "intelectual property" but the main reason for their existence is protection of the customer and it's a point that bears repeating.

Now in the Lego-compatible brick market it may be a bit confusing that there are lower quality non-Lego bricks availlable, and we don't really need the competition

This is the one point I would disagree with. I don't think it's at all confusing. We have had compatible brick products for nearly (perhaps longer than) 30 years. LEGO is a company with alot of integrity, but it's still not a stretch to suggest that competition is one of the main reasons that they have continued to have such a high-quality product for so many years.

Alot of folks seem to think that competition is bad because it takes dollars out of TLG's pockets. On the contrary (and I think we agree here) competition keeps LEGO on it's toes, keeps prices down (in the US anyway) and provides us a LEGO product that is innovative and high quality. Not just because "only the best is good enough" but because it has to be the best to survive.

[The Cobra]

Clone brands make either subtle or blatant copies of Lego products, so why is it that they are still produced?!

Maybe you should ask these guys: link

Copying sets and artwork (ebay has some box backs; they look soo familiar).

[Peppermint_M]

Ok, so those guys are a mix between bootleggers and clone brands. The blatant packaging copy is an excersize in brand confusion but the sets seem to be non Lego (apart from the army/navy sets) so I suppose they'll get away with it until Lego notice.

[The Cobra]

I started collecting pics of clone sets and brands: brickshelf link

[Eilif]

I started collecting pics of clone sets and brands: brickshelf link

Wow, there's some really interesting stuff in there. I notice that some of these companies have even used LEGO's trademarked Technic and Racers names. Quite blatant!

[Peppermint_M]

Brand confusion. the reason I accidentaly bid and won a car that looked like speed racer lego, but was really a brick Power Racer. Damn I should read things more carefully.

Also: I have to say the FIA brick sets are really quite good. Apart from the slightly odd figures, the bricks are ok and the accessories are good.

Edited May 19, 2009 by Peppermint_M

[Dadster]

I started collecting pics of clone sets and brands: brickshelf link

Hmmm - they've got the Police sets going. Very disturbing. Maybe that's why Lego is trying anything and everything as far as new themes. Power Miners, Space Police (not really new, but off the radar), farming equipment, and such.

I'm dreading the day some knock-off company sells their version of the MMV or Green Grocer or any Star Wars (under the guise of "Space Battles").

[larry marak]

Hmmm - they've got the Police sets going. Very disturbing. Maybe that's why Lego is trying anything and everything as far as new themes. Power Miners, Space Police (not really new, but off the radar), farming equipment, and such.

I'm dreading the day some knock-off company sells their version of the MMV or Green Grocer or any Star Wars (under the guise of "Space Battles").

Too late. Kazi does a Star Space Wars line with copies of TLG's Star Wars sets. Kazi is a double pirate because they both reproduce exactly TLG designs and manufacture elements (cheese slopes) that are still under TLG patent protection. Bella, a sub-brand of Wit Toys, makes Racers, Studios, and Paradisa sets.

By the way, Enlighten bricks just celebrated their 45th anniversary last year.

[Eilif]

Too late. Kazi does a Star Space Wars line with copies of TLG's Star Wars sets. Kazi is a double pirate because they both reproduce exactly TLG designs and manufacture elements (cheese slopes) that are still under TLG patent protection. Bella, a sub-brand of Wit Toys, makes Racers, Studios, and Paradisa sets.

By the way, Enlighten bricks just celebrated their 45th anniversary last year.

Hey Larry, I had forgotten that you're over here at EB! Glad to have your clone wisedom over here as well. Interesting observation on the "double-pirates".

I've got to disagree with you on one point however. I've heard you quote the longevity of Enlighten before, and I think that you've been taken in by some of their propoganda. If Enlighten Bricks was 45 years old, then they began producing bricks in the year 1964. That would mean that they got their start just before the cultural revolution. I sincerely doubt anyone in china was producing plastic lego knock-offs in China at that time.

Me thinks it may be time to let that legend die.

Edited May 28, 2009 by Eilif

[larry marak]

I've got to disagree with you on one point however. I've heard you quote the longevity of Enlighten before, and I think that you've been taken in by some of their propoganda. If Enlighten Bricks was 45 years old, then they began producing bricks in the year 1964.

Yeah, its hard to verify. Its probably only possible if Enlighten is based out of Hong Kong. It is now under PRC jurisdiction and was taken to court in Beijing about a decade ago for some of the Shifty line products. Enlighten paid a small fine and agree not to manufacture 46 elements that TLG controlled. Nintendo on the other hand launched their brick line out of Japan in the early 70's. One of the few brick companies to produce 1x5 bricks.

[Spyder]

Too late. Kazi does a Star Space Wars line with copies of TLG's Star Wars sets.

Is there any way to get pictures? I'm actually quite interested in this topic, and I wanted to see what the sets look like.

[larry marak]

Is there any way to get pictures? I'm actually quite interested in this topic, and I wanted to see what the sets look like.

You've gotta find them on ebay. Search under building toys for the two biggest licensed rip-off lines Kazi makes, Star Space Wars and Spider Super Man. Chances are a seller who has either series for sale has both in his ebay store.

Coincidentally I just received two Kazi micro-scale fighters in the mail today from the PRC. 19 and 23 piece sets, done using Lego patented parts.

[Eilif]

Its probably only possible if Enlighten is based out of Hong Kong.

Hmm, good point about a possible Hong Kong origin. I grant you it may be possible, but my bet is that Enlighten is as loose with their history as they are with Trademark and Patent law.

Edited May 29, 2009 by Eilif

[Lord Admiral]

Back in the 90's, there was also a knockoff brand sold in the US called COCO. Their quality was vastly inferior, but their branding, design, and even their figure pieces looked very similar to LEGO minifigures and pieces. Last I heard about them a few years back, they got sued by TLG into oblivion. They probably still manufacture and sell in areas where bootlegging run rampant. But I haven't seen anything by them for at least a decade, if not longer.

[larry marak]

Back in the 90's, there was also a knockoff brand sold in the US called COCO. Their quality was vastly inferior, but their branding, design, and even their figure pieces looked very similar to LEGO minifigures and pieces. Last I heard about them a few years back, they got sued by TLG into oblivion. They probably still manufacture and sell in areas where bootlegging run rampant. But I haven't seen anything by them for at least a decade, if not longer.

Lord Admiral, I think you may mean COKO. They were wiped out in litigation by TLG and did shamelessly duplicate Lego sets. I have a few COKO castle wall panels in my display case. COCO on the other hand is located in Shanghai and was the producer of the old metrics Best Lock elements for 12 years. They are still in business, still selling new old metric sets. Their Warhammer inspired line is awesome.

From several years of collecting Chinese clone sets, I've come to the conclusion that before the "socialist market economy" was established the PRC collected a vast data-file of elements from Lego, Mega-Block and Oxford patents, and made them available to their toy manufacturers. With the new economy, where monolithic companies were broken up into many competing companies, there are now at least 8 different manufacturers inside the PRC selling original and stolen designs under at least 18 different company names, plus their export label names!!! They differ quite a bit in quality, with Enlighten (which still does custom painted bricks, a practice Lego seems to be retreating from) and Sluban (which shamelessly steals Oxford designs) at the top of the heap, Little White Dragon (best lock's current source) Kazi, and Wit Toys somewhere in the middle and Ligao and Digo somewhere near the bottom. One area where there is quite a lot of difference in these cloners is the minifig. Not only does painting vary, but so does design. A number of differently jointed models are out there.

Edited May 29, 2009 by larry marak

[Peppermint_M]

Wow, you know a lot about bootlegs and clones.

I've just been collecting cheap boxes I come across and images from eBay.

[larry marak]

Wow, you know a lot about bootlegs and clones.

I've just been collecting cheap boxes I come across and images from eBay.

Thanks Peppermint_M. I'm just one of an international group of people over at http://bloks.hyperboards.com That have made a hobby of researching clones. This is the Bloks Forum, which was originally set up as a MegaBloks AFOMB site but has expanded over the years to be an all construction system site. There is tons of information to mine over there in the Other Construction Systems folder and the Reviews All Systems folder. We've got quite an ecclectic mix there now, with discussions on Lincoln Logs, Knex, Lego, Oxford (and a source for buying Oxford!!!!!) as well as the original MegaBloks folder.

[Lord Admiral]

Lord Admiral, I think you may mean COKO. They were wiped out in litigation by TLG and did shamelessly duplicate Lego sets.

Yeah, that's the brand! Last time I saw a set by them many years ago, it was in Toys R Us of all places. I was drawing on very old and dusty memories, so forgive me if it's a little imperfect.

I also had some Tyco Superblocks. I wasn't terribly crazy about their big-to-small converter brick, but they were decent on the whole. I never got into their models though.

[Spyder]

You've gotta find them on ebay. Search under building toys for the two biggest licensed rip-off lines Kazi makes, Star Space Wars and Spider Super Man. Chances are a seller who has either series for sale has both in his ebay store.

I'm sorry, but I still can't find them.

[blueandwhite]

I'm curious about the legal doctrine under which bootleggers get caught. I assume that it's the common law doctrine of "passing off" but I haven't actually read any of the case law. For those who don't know, passing off is a trademark violation where the offender effectively markets and packages their product in a way that would fundamentally confuse consumers as to the origin of the product (similar logos, branding etc.). Alot of the Chinese clone sets look remarkably like their LEGO counterparts on first glance. Does anybody have any information on this?

[HumanPackMule]

Why don't we work on some sort of boycott or place pieces of paper with the harms and hazards of clone brands on store shelves where they are sold. That way, ignorant parents will realize that building toys aren't about quantity, but about quality.

[Luke McAwesome]

Why don't we work on some sort of boycott or place pieces of paper with the harms and hazards of clone brands on store shelves where they are sold. That way, ignorant parents will realize that building toys aren't about quantity, but about quality.

Store employee's would see them and rip them off the shelves immediately. It would ruin the store's profits to tell people not to buy such "things".

[larry marak]

. Alot of the Chinese clone sets look remarkably like their LEGO counterparts on first glance. Does anybody have any information on this?

It depends on the patent protection statutes in each country. In some countries it has been illegal to import for sale any brick set at all that was compatible with Lego. Still that way in Denmark. In the Netherlands and Germany recent court decisions just legalized selling lego-compatible bricks (which led to Best-Lock's decision to form a partnership with Cobi of Poland to used Lego metric bricks and abandon their old scale.

Coko got stopped dead in China because it made exact copies of Lego sets, a practice still going on today with other Chinese companies (Wit Toys/Bella being the prime offender). It costs a fortune to take a company to court, especially internationally. More recently, Lego defeated Enlighten in Beijing, but only for 46 elements currently under intellectual protection under PRC law. In Finland all Lego had to prove was that the sets looked like Lego products, whether they were copies of actual sets or independent products. A large number of non copied sets where destroyed there by court order.

[MrTools]

Quote from Family Guy

Peter-"ah sweet, you got LEGOs (yes he said LEGOs)"Lois only buys me Megabloks"

Lois-"there the same thing peter"

Peter-"you know Lois, they are not the same thing and the sooner you can get that throgh your thick skull the soone we can ge this marrage back on track"

[Tom Bricks]

Quote from Family Guy

Peter-"ah sweet, you got LEGOs (yes he said LEGOs)"Lois only buys me Megabloks"

Lois-"there the same thing peter"

Peter-"you know Lois, they are not the same thing and the sooner you can get that throgh your thick skull the soone we can ge this marrage back on track"

If Peter Griffin gets is why don't parents? I don't understand this though. Where I live all the parents want to buy the best for their children, like organic foods, and brand name clothes. If the parents pay more for these items why don't they pay more for the Lego brand?