How is this not a thing? [Castle Battle Pack]

[SirBlake]

34 minutes ago, Triceron said:

I completely agree, having the option would always be better than not.

I just don't know if Lego has always released Battle Packs in the interest of selling to kids, while this is almost certainly an AFOL specific thing.  For Star Wars I totally get, since it has both AFOL and Kid appeal, but Castle battle packs would be very niche if they didn't bring out an entire kid-oriented Castle series to go with.

I do feel like BAM and B&P are our best alternatives.  I'm not sure if it's standard policy, but the Lego store employee told me that you could mix and match any accessories up to 15 pieces total for BAM, so I could technically get 15 'White Falcon' torsos or 7 torsos 7 legs and build up an army that way for a decent price.  Heads are super easy to get, and the rest would just be figuring hair or helmet options, which should be obtainable through B&P.

Last time I went to the closest Lego store, they would assemble complete figures for you, but there was no torsos and legs only option. 
 

Either way, driving over an hour to that store is not the point I’m going for here. Ideally this would be regular retail. 

[BrickJagger]

3 hours ago, Triceron said:

I can't see there being a wide market for them outside of AFOLs like us, and even then it's a niche within a niche.

I really don't think that kids are gravitating to this theme at all, even if it's getting quite a resurgence.  It's literally playing on nostalgia for AFOLs like us.

Honestly, I don't agree with this at all. It's true that most of the sets in the current "line" are 18+, but the characters are no different from normal Castle figures. The last three Castle themes had battle packs that were similar to what @SirBlake was describing, as well as ~$10 sets that were solid army-builders. I don't think that a kid would be able to tell that today's Black Falcons are a throwback from the eighties when put side-by-side with, say, the 2010 Dragon Knights. 

There's no reason why Lego shouldn't branch out and try to draw in kids. I'm not sure what changed since 1978 that turned Castle from something that appealed to all ages to exclusively adults with money to spend. 

Edited May 31, 2022 by BrickJagger

[zoth33]

1 hour ago, BrickJagger said:

Honestly, I don't agree with this at all. It's true that most of the sets in the current "line" are 18+, but the characters are no different from normal Castle figures. The last three Castle themes had battle packs that were similar to what @SirBlake was describing, as well as ~$10 sets that were solid army-builders. I don't think that a kid would be able to tell that today's Black Falcons are a throwback from the eighties when put side-by-side with, say, the 2010 Dragon Knights. 

There's no reason why Lego shouldn't branch out and try to draw in kids. I'm not sure what changed since 1978 that turned Castle from something that appealed to all ages to exclusively adults with money to spend. 

Maybe the thinking it's more adult oriented has to do with shows like GOT and the witcher.  But I thought LOTR and the Hobbit appealed to a wider audience.  And now you've got The Rings of Power coming out that doesn't seem to adult oriented and the WoT.  Kids are definitely into dragons and castle like stuff just look at How to Train a Dragon, the Dragon Prince, Troll Hunters just to name a few really popular shows.  So I agree that there is definitely fantasy things kids are into now and that kids would buy castle stuff just like in the past.  I only say that the massive popularity of GOT maybe some people at lego saw that as more adult oriented stuff but there is other franchises that are quite popular with kids in the fantasy realm.  And with the popularity of D&D and Magic the gathering there is so much that lego could do to include kids and adults interests in the same theme if they did it right.  My 12 year old son already wants the $350 lion castle and we haven't even seen it yet and the lion knights are his favorite.  He also likes army building so he can have big battles.  Obviously this is just my kid but I'm sure there are more like him that would like this kind of stuff.  They could easily do there own theme and make it great.  We will just have to hope this pushes them to see the potential

[Triceron]

2 hours ago, BrickJagger said:

Honestly, I don't agree with this at all. It's true that most of the sets in the current "line" are 18+, but the characters are no different from normal Castle figures. The last three Castle themes had battle packs that were similar to what @SirBlake was describing, as well as ~$10 sets that were solid army-builders. I don't think that a kid would be able to tell that today's Black Falcons are a throwback from the eighties when put side-by-side with, say, the 2010 Dragon Knights. 

There's no reason why Lego shouldn't branch out and try to draw in kids. I'm not sure what changed since 1978 that turned Castle from something that appealed to all ages to exclusively adults with money to spend. 

 

Lego branches out to draw in kids, but not with 80's/90's style Castle any more.  That's why Nexo Knights existed.  And yes, Nexo Knights had blister packs to army build.  That is what Lego considers branching for kids.  I'd say it's a mix of different things - Castles and Knights is not as ever-present in modern pop culture as it used to be.  Modern day Castle is mostly replaced by Ninjago and Harry Potter, which cover most of what kids want out of an action series or a fantasy series.  And arguably, Harry Potter doubles in appealing to AFOL collectors as well.

I can't say really say that Lego bringing back the 80's and 90's classics in battle packs would really appeal to kids at all.  Lego would be the one who has the data on that.  I mean at a sentimental level, I completely agree that they went strong with other Castle themes over the years, but I think they have a very different view of what kids like today than they did back then.  I personally think that they see themes like Ninjago being their answer to Action-Fantasy niche that Castle used to occupy.  Ninjago's still going strong too.

Edited May 31, 2022 by Triceron

[SirBlake]

3 minutes ago, Triceron said:

 

Lego branches out to draw in kids, but not with 80's/90's style Castle any more.  That's why Nexo Knights existed.  And yes, Nexo Knights had blister packs to army build.  That is what Lego considers branching for kids.  I'd say it's a mix of different things - Castles and Knights is not as ever-present in modern pop culture as it used to be.  Modern day Castle is mostly replaced by Ninjago and Harry Potter, which cover most of what kids want out of an action series or a fantasy series.  And arguably, Harry Potter doubles in appealing to AFOL collectors as well.

I can't say really say that Lego bringing back the 80's and 90's classics in battle packs would really appeal to kids at all.  Lego would be the one who has the data on that.  I mean at a sentimental level, I completely agree that they went strong with other Castle themes over the years, but I think they have a very different view of what kids like today than they did back then.  I personally think that they see themes like Ninjago being their answer to Action-Fantasy niche that Castle used to occupy.  Ninjago's still going strong too.

I’m not picking on you personally, but this post echos a lot of assumptions that just don’t add up that well to me. 
 

Thing 1: medieval/fantasy is ever present in culture. There is FAR more representation in pop culture now than there was in the 80’s/90’s. What was there back then? Willow? A half hearted D&D cartoon? Disney’s Gummi Bears? Lol

 

Thing 2: you know what did have a hay day in the 80’s and 90’s that’s largely faded away in current pop culture? Ninjas. 
 

Clearly there is some sort of market for Lego castle. 3 large sets and a GWP in 18 months proves that. I’m just asking TLG to stop half-a$$ing it and fill in one of the largest gaps. 

[BrickJagger]

13 minutes ago, Triceron said:

 

Lego branches out to draw in kids, but not with 80's/90's style Castle any more.  That's why Nexo Knights existed.  And yes, Nexo Knights had blister packs to army build.  That is what Lego considers branching for kids.  I'd say it's a mix of different things - Castles and Knights is not as ever-present in modern pop culture as it used to be.  Modern day Castle is mostly replaced by Ninjago and Harry Potter, which cover most of what kids want out of an action series or a fantasy series.  And arguably, Harry Potter doubles in appealing to AFOL collectors as well.

I can't say really say that Lego bringing back the 80's and 90's classics in battle packs would really appeal to kids at all.  Lego would be the one who has the data on that.  I mean at a sentimental level, I completely agree that they went strong with other Castle themes over the years, but I think they have a very different view of what kids like today than they did back then.  I personally think that they see themes like Ninjago being their answer to Action-Fantasy niche that Castle used to occupy.  Ninjago's still going strong too.

See but as I said, I don't think kids are able to tell the difference between "throwback" knights and "modern" knights. After all, even most of the more recent factions are callbacks to older ones.

The point you make regarding Harry Potter confuses me a bit. If HP appeals to kids and adults, why doesn't Castle? Most young kids weren't even alive when HP was last in theaters, and the franchise seems to be dying with Fantastic Beasts. Castle's advantage is that it's tied to a historical period that won't fade away like a franchise, and for 30 plus years Lego took advantage of that.

I'm not sure Ninjago is going strong, considering the storyline is wrapping up and they're going to reboot it. Who knows how that will go. But again, like Harry Potter, Ninjago's original fans are now adults, and it appeals to both adults and kids. There's going to be a sizable group of kids that don't want mechs and rob-tanks, hence why Nexo and Chima did not do so well. If I had to bet what is going to age better culturally between Castle and whatever Ninjago has going on these days, I'm taking the former in a landslide.

8 minutes ago, SirBlake said:

Clearly there is some sort of market for Lego castle. 3 large sets and a GWP in 18 months proves that. I’m just asking TLG to stop half-a$$ing it and fill in one of the largest gaps. 

+1.

[Triceron]

32 minutes ago, SirBlake said:

I’m not picking on you personally, but this post echos a lot of assumptions that just don’t add up that well to me. 
 

Thing 1: medieval/fantasy is ever present in culture. There is FAR more representation in pop culture now than there was in the 80’s/90’s. What was there back then? Willow? A half hearted D&D cartoon? Disney’s Gummi Bears? Lol

 

Thing 2: you know what did have a hay day in the 80’s and 90’s that’s largely faded away in current pop culture? Ninjas. 
 

Clearly there is some sort of market for Lego castle. 3 large sets and a GWP in 18 months proves that. I’m just asking TLG to stop half-a$$ing it and fill in one of the largest gaps. 

Lego Castle was built off of the classic myths of King Arthur, Robin Hood and the like, which was fairly prominent in 70's and 80's.  Today, we still have popular Fantasy series, but it's far more niche since Superheroes have become the new big craze.

And as I've said before, Ninjago pretty much covers the rest of what Lego considers to be kid-friendly appeal.  Vehicles, Dragons, Monsters, Ninjas, Superheroes.  It's all there in that one theme.

The market for Lego castle is primarily coming from AFOLs.  You said it - 3 Large Sets and a GWP for $160.  I'd say the Creator Medieval Castle is the only real kid-oriented set of the bunch, and even then AFOLs are talking about purchasing 2-3 of the set to build bigger castles.  The Blacksmith and Lion Castle are very likely primarily purchased by AFOLs.

22 minutes ago, BrickJagger said:

See but as I said, I don't think kids are able to tell the difference between "throwback" knights and "modern" knights. After all, even most of the more recent factions are callbacks to older ones.

The point you make regarding Harry Potter confuses me a bit. If HP appeals to kids and adults, why doesn't Castle? Most young kids weren't even alive when HP was last in theaters, and the franchise seems to be dying with Fantastic Beasts. Castle's advantage is that it's tied to a historical period that won't fade away like a franchise, and for 30 plus years Lego took advantage of that.

I'm not sure Ninjago is going strong, considering the storyline is wrapping up and they're going to reboot it. Who knows how that will go. But again, like Harry Potter, Ninjago's original fans are now adults, and it appeals to both adults and kids. There's going to be a sizable group of kids that don't want mechs and rob-tanks, hence why Nexo and Chima did not do so well. If I had to bet what is going to age better culturally between Castle and whatever Ninjago has going on these days, I'm taking the former in a landslide.

HP appeals to kids and adults because even if the kids aren't growing up around HP in theatres, they will be getting exposure to it by their adult parents who will share their passion with their kids.  That's why Harry Potter is still relevant today even for new kids.  Same can be said of most Superhero genre films, which are aimed at adults but also have kid appeal to them because of the parents taking them to enjoy the movies.

As for how Castles age overall, it's really up to Lego to decide that.  I'd be all for it, I just don't think TLG sees it the same way.  To be frank, I personally see Castles, Pirates and Space to be timeless themes that could have been carried on from the 80's into forever.  I'm not sure when or why they decided to branch out to stuff like Hidden Side and Vidyo as their mainstay products, but that's Lego for you.  I'm just happy we're getting anything Castle related for a full release.  Blacksmith certainly opened their eyes that at the very least there is a significant AFOL demand for it.

Edited May 31, 2022 by Triceron

[SirBlake]

16 minutes ago, Triceron said:

Lego Castle was built off of the classic myths of King Arthur, Robin Hood and the like, which was fairly prominent in 70's and 80's.  And there was plenty of fantasy ranging from He-man to Thundercats and more.  Today, we still have popular Fantasy series, but it's far more niche since Superheroes have become the new big craze.

As for how Castles age overall, it's really up to Lego to decide that.  I'd be all for it, I just don't think TLG sees it the same way.  To be frank, I personally see Castles, Pirates and Space to be timeless themes that could have been carried on from the 80's into forever.  I'm not sure when or why they decided to branch out to stuff like Hidden Side and Vidyo as their mainstay products, but that's Lego for you.  I'm just happy we're getting anything Castle related for a full release.  Blacksmith certainly opened their eyes that at the very least there is a significant AFOL demand for it.

On the first part: how was it prominent in the 70's and 80's? Excalibur the movie? (Definitely not a kid's movie) He-Man and Thundercats had a bit of it, but those properties stretched the castle part of things pretty darn far. I can see a much greater connection to those properties with something like Nexo Knights than classic castle.

On the last part: we can certainly agree. Those 3 are timeless, and the fact that they are constantly being brought back in film, TV and especially in video games tells the tale. The 2014-2020 draught is what eventually led to a dim (not quite dark) age for me because TLG seemingly didn't have the common sense to serve the community. Now all of a sudden there's a resurgence because they magically see a market for the theme? I was shouting that the whole d#$% time! How many failed Chimas/Nexos/Hidden Sides/Vidyos do there need to be before they realize that? Perhaps they're starting to see the light. We've gotten more high quality sets (if not quantity) of all three themes in the last few years than the last decade.

LOL, sorry. I'm just a wee bit passionate on this subject. :)

[Triceron]

20 minutes ago, SirBlake said:

On the first part: how was it prominent in the 70's and 80's? Excalibur the movie? (Definitely not a kid's movie) He-Man and Thundercats had a bit of it, but those properties stretched the castle part of things pretty darn far. I can see a much greater connection to those properties with something like Nexo Knights than classic castle.

On the last part: we can certainly agree. Those 3 are timeless, and the fact that they are constantly being brought back in film, TV and especially in video games tells the tale. The 2014-2020 draught is what eventually led to a dim (not quite dark) age for me because TLG seemingly didn't have the common sense to serve the community. Now all of a sudden there's a resurgence because they magically see a market for the theme? I was shouting that the whole d#$% time! How many failed Chimas/Nexos/Hidden Sides/Vidyos do there need to be before they realize that? Perhaps they're starting to see the light. We've gotten more high quality sets (if not quantity) of all three themes in the last few years than the last decade.

LOL, sorry. I'm just a wee bit passionate on this subject. :)

Back then movies weren't the only thing influencing the minds of kids.  Toys in general had a very strong fantasy vibe to them whether we're talking about He-man and Thundercats or the plastic swords and shields and helmets that kids could get in a toy store.  That's generally what I'm talking about.  Today, a lot of kids aren't growing up with the same toys that we did back in the 70's and 80's.

Anecdotally speaking, I'd say Superheroes have replaced the fantasy of Knights and Dragons in today's kids culture.  The concept of fighting Dragons will never grow old or get replaced, but I think today kids don't really distinguish that as being any different from 'Monsters' that any super heroes fight.  Medieval settings are much less ever-present in general, with most of those settings now being completely oriented towards Teen+ to Adults. I mean, today the closest thing kids relate to swords and fantasy are probably through games like Minecraft.  I doubt they're getting much exposure to Knights and Castles since GoT is well out of their reach, and there's practically zero kid-oriented medieval fantasy shows nowadays.  I think it would mostly be indirectly through whatever exposure they get through parents who enjoy Castle/Medieval settings.

Edited May 31, 2022 by Triceron

[SirBlake]

1 hour ago, Triceron said:

Back then movies weren't the only thing influencing the minds of kids.  Toys in general had a very strong fantasy vibe to them whether we're talking about He-man and Thundercats or the plastic swords and shields and helmets that kids could get in a toy store.  That's generally what I'm talking about.  Today, a lot of kids aren't growing up with the same toys that we did back in the 70's and 80's.

Anecdotally speaking, I'd say Superheroes have replaced the fantasy of Knights and Dragons in today's kids culture.  The concept of fighting Dragons will never grow old or get replaced, but I think today kids don't really distinguish that as being any different from 'Monsters' that any super heroes fight.  Medieval settings are much less ever-present in general, with most of those settings now being completely oriented towards Teen+ to Adults. I mean, today the closest thing kids relate to swords and fantasy are probably through games like Minecraft.  I doubt they're getting much exposure to Knights and Castles since GoT is well out of their reach, and there's practically zero kid-oriented medieval fantasy shows nowadays.  I think it would mostly be indirectly through whatever exposure they get through parents who enjoy Castle/Medieval settings.

You make a good point as far as the domination of comic-based media. I also think we’re both on an anecdotal merry go round, as I can list much more castle/fantasy in recent times, along with the enduring nature of classic Disney that’s full of castles and still seen by most kids regardless of generation.

I think the assertions you’re making are likely parallel to TLG’s thoughts on the matter the last several years and I disagree with both of you. 
 

Edit: it’s a fun conversation though. 

Edited June 1, 2022 by SirBlake

[TeriXeri]

1 hour ago, SirBlake said:

You make a good point as far as the domination of comic-based media. I also think we’re both on an anecdotal merry go round, as I can list much more castle/fantasy in recent times, along with the enduring nature of classic Disney that’s full of castles and still seen by most kids regardless of generation.

LEGO Disney indeed has a large amount of Castle sets coming out right now June 1st. 3 castles, 2 courtyard sets,  at the same time, while also already having 2 palaces and a stable just released 3 months ago.

The Mickey Castle Defender set is more like "traditional" Castle tho, with a horse, knight ,jester and a dragon, and it's a minifig style set as well, not the usual Minidoll castle like the rest of them, obviously it's simplfied due to being a 4+ and Cartoon set, but it's still nice to see Castle for younger kids in LEGO again even while it's still Disney.

(I'm not saying kids can't play with the big 90th anniversary castle obviously, but more like 4+ target audience on the mickey set means it's not an AFOL main target)

 

Edited June 1, 2022 by TeriXeri

[Rattlebricks]

3 hours ago, SirBlake said:

I’m not picking on you personally, but this post echos a lot of assumptions that just don’t add up that well to me. 
 

Thing 1: medieval/fantasy is ever present in culture. There is FAR more representation in pop culture now than there was in the 80’s/90’s. What was there back then? Willow? A half hearted D&D cartoon? Disney’s Gummi Bears? Lol

 

Thing 2: you know what did have a hay day in the 80’s and 90’s that’s largely faded away in current pop culture? Ninjas. 
 

Clearly there is some sort of market for Lego castle. 3 large sets and a GWP in 18 months proves that. I’m just asking TLG to stop half-a$$ing it and fill in one of the largest gaps. 

Yep. As I mentioned in other threads, there's the likes of Zelda, Warcraft, Diablo . HP, GOT, LOTR, and countless others that are revolves around Castle/King/Armies, hell even Disney Frozen and Maleficent has Castle/Kingdom atmosphere all over it. There's certainly more of that in today's  pop culture  compare to 80s and 90s. The reason why it doesnt sell its because  Lego doesnt makes it anymore in first place (until recent Ideas and Creator). 

 

Ninja theme from the late 90s wasnt popular, yet Lego was able to revived Ninja's them with Ninjago cause they're willing to commit and went all out for it. Lego brand is more than big enough to creates trend rather than following trend. 

 

However,  the Castle/kingdom themed minifigs on every CMF series proof they're still not ignoring the theme completely, and the Creator and Ideas sets gives us more hope. Now we'll also get another big Castle plus reimangined Forestman hideout.

Edited June 1, 2022 by Rattlebricks

[MAB]

5 hours ago, Rattlebricks said:

Ninja theme from the late 90s wasnt popular, yet Lego was able to revived Ninja's them with Ninjago cause they're willing to commit and went all out for it. Lego brand is more than big enough to creates trend rather than following trend. 

If Ninjago is Ninjas then Nexo Knights is Castle.

[MontyMatte]

On 5/29/2022 at 11:29 PM, TeriXeri said:

I don't like saything this, but LEGO is clearly doing a GWP strategy to hype up the Castle announcement at LEGO Con a few days later, at least for the majority of LEGO fans that don't actively follow media sites all the time. If the GWP would be sold out in 1-2 days and miss the 18th june LEGO Con that'd be a PR mishap though. 

 

A remake of 6103: Castle Mini Figures would fit so well with the current times of available sets / GWP,  and the 90th anniversary set likely has such figs (in production) too.

Like it has Falcons, a Crusader, Forestmen and a farmer.

A minifig pack could even be delayed a few months (nexo minifig packs came out 4-5 months after the sets of the seasons)

 

Those were the days... I wish I still had it.