[MOC] Shark? Nose Diesel

[Legownz]

In my continuing quest to procrastinate on things I should be doing and instead building on LDD, I have created a new diesel MOC! Originally, I wanted to build something heavily inspired by a Baldwin RF-16 "Sharknose" diesel. I remember seeing an A-A NYC Set for sale in a Lionel catalog a while back and for some reason it stuck with me.

I had a lot of trouble with shaping and found myself going through multiple versions of the nose. Here are a few of my attempts, along with a windscreen attempt that ended up looking a little wonky. 

After getting past the windscreen though, the rest of the design went by pretty fast. However, after I finished and took a look at the completed model, I realized something. With the NYC inspired livery I was working with, along with how the shaping ended up working out with the nose, my sharknose ended up looking more like a skunk.

It can be powered by PF and I used the same mock-up battery box and receiver as my Alco diesel. There is also a seat for a driver, but it is quite cramped. You can see a bit of how the windows are attached, though.

I tried changing the livery over to my fictitious railway's blue and white, but it was no use. It still looked like a skunk.

So that's basically it. I think I'm going to put this project on the metaphorical shelf and see if the skunk grows on me or if I end up redesigning it. It also was meant to pull a passenger train, so maybe I'll do some passenger cars at a later date. Here is the LDD file as well if anyone wants it: https://bricksafe.com/pages/Legownz/skunkshark-nose-diesel

 

 

[LEGO Train 12 Volts]

The  final solution for the shark nose is perfect!

I prefer the black livery!

[ColletArrow]

As far as I'm concerned, you've done a rather nifty job at reproducing a very not-LEGO-friendly-shaped prototype in LEGO! I agree with LEGO Train 12 Volts above that the black livery looks better, but that may just be due to the LDD screenshots - a render, e.g. from Stud.Io, might give a different impression.

As for looking skunk-like - looking at your excellent work as critically as I can, I'd say that predominantly the nose is too low and long, whilst the "forehead" above the cab windows is too high. Compare your screenshots with this similarly-angled photo of a model I found in a quick Google Images search:

(Image source: https://www.historicrail.com/BF-16-A-Sharknose-Diesel-Locomotive-w_-DCC-Sound/productinfo/0R69296/)

Although I would never recommend using a model as a reference to build a model, this does show the nose shape a lot better.

But I wouldn't blame you for not wanting to redo your work on that unusually shaped nose, and ultimately it's your model; you can do whatever you like with it!

Edited April 7, 2020 by ColletArrow
Added image source

[Phil B]

This is one tricky build!

As @ColletArrow already mentioned, the nose is too low. Specifically, the sideways mounted 4x1 curved slopes should be at the same height as the baseplate used for the rest of the train, which means you need to move them 1 stud higher somehow, without changing the rest of the nose too much. The windows could be more slit-like, for example by placing 2 trans-clear 1x2's on top of eachother instead of the side-ways build you have now. That would give you additional vertical space to use for shifting the nose up higher.

[Legownz]

11 hours ago, LEGO Train 12 Volts said:

The  final solution for the shark nose is perfect!

I prefer the black livery!

Thank you! I like the black livery a lot more too, but if I were to buy parts for it, it would not match the other locos in my fleet. Ah well. Maybe it's a special livery for my railway or something.

9 hours ago, ColletArrow said:

As far as I'm concerned, you've done a rather nifty job at reproducing a very not-LEGO-friendly-shaped prototype in LEGO! I agree with LEGO Train 12 Volts above that the black livery looks better, but that may just be due to the LDD screenshots - a render, e.g. from Stud.Io, might give a different impression.

As for looking skunk-like - looking at your excellent work as critically as I can, I'd say that predominantly the nose is too low and long, whilst the "forehead" above the cab windows is too high. Compare your screenshots with this similarly-angled photo of a model I found in a quick Google Images search:

(Image source: https://www.historicrail.com/BF-16-A-Sharknose-Diesel-Locomotive-w_-DCC-Sound/productinfo/0R69296/)

Although I would never recommend using a model as a reference to build a model, this does show the nose shape a lot better.

But I wouldn't blame you for not wanting to redo your work on that unusually shaped nose, and ultimately it's your model; you can do whatever you like with it!

After looking at it again, you're totally right about the nose. It has begun to grow on me though, and I tend to try and make my models based real life trains, rather than replicas/scale models. That way, if I don't like a certain aspect design-wise, I can change it to whatever I like (My railway is fictional, so why not the loco models too). I might keep it as it is, but later on create a copy of the file and try and get it closer to the source material and see what I like better.

Out of curiosity though, why would you not want to use a model as reference material? (Sorry if that's a dumb question) Thank you for the feedback!

6 hours ago, Phil B said:

This is one tricky build!

As @ColletArrow already mentioned, the nose is too low. Specifically, the sideways mounted 4x1 curved slopes should be at the same height as the baseplate used for the rest of the train, which means you need to move them 1 stud higher somehow, without changing the rest of the nose too much. The windows could be more slit-like, for example by placing 2 trans-clear 1x2's on top of eachother instead of the side-ways build you have now. That would give you additional vertical space to use for shifting the nose up higher.

That's a good thought. I'm a little hesitant to go back to those windows as trying to get them to play nice and be in the correct position in all axis's was a head scratcher. Thank you for the advice though!

[ColletArrow]

14 hours ago, Legownz said:

After looking at it again, you're totally right about the nose. It has begun to grow on me though, and I tend to try and make my models based real life trains, rather than replicas/scale models. That way, if I don't like a certain aspect design-wise, I can change it to whatever I like (My railway is fictional, so why not the loco models too). I might keep it as it is, but later on create a copy of the file and try and get it closer to the source material and see what I like better.

Out of curiosity though, why would you not want to use a model as reference material? (Sorry if that's a dumb question) Thank you for the feedback!

I don't blame you at all, since I do the same with many of my LEGO models. It's a bit of a cop-out, but by not trying to replicate a prototype exactly in the first place then it doesn't matter when the end result looks a little different!

And as for not referencing off models - you never know what slight misrepresentation the designer of that model has made, maybe stretched here to fit an existing chassis piece, simplified there to make production easier... Whilst modern models are typically very good, building off images or plans of the real thing guarantees accuracy - if that's what your aiming for!

[Paperinik77pk]

I think you perfectly got the shape! I agree, with @ColletArrow, Maybe it's a bit low, but it's instantly recognizable!!!

Very nice and original locomotive!!!

Ciao!

Davide

 

[Legownz]

7 hours ago, ColletArrow said:

I don't blame you at all, since I do the same with many of my LEGO models. It's a bit of a cop-out, but by not trying to replicate a prototype exactly in the first place then it doesn't matter when the end result looks a little different!

Yeah, it is a bit of a cop-out... 

7 hours ago, ColletArrow said:

And as for not referencing off models - you never know what slight misrepresentation the designer of that model has made, maybe stretched here to fit an existing chassis piece, simplified there to make production easier... Whilst modern models are typically very good, building off images or plans of the real thing guarantees accuracy - if that's what your aiming for!

Ah that makes sense. Thank you for taking the time to explain.

5 hours ago, Paperinik77pk said:

I think you perfectly got the shape! I agree, with @ColletArrow, Maybe it's a bit low, but it's instantly recognizable!!!

Very nice and original locomotive!!!

Ciao!

Davide

 

Thank you!

[zephyr1934]

First my thoughts on your model, you did a good job capturing the impossible angles of the nose. That is a feat in itself. Looking at your realization, I would think adding 2-3 plates in height to the rest of the body might make the nose look better proportioned to the rest of the loco, but then it might also make the loco feel a bit short. If you are not trying for a perfect recreation, you could go either way. I personally do not like the wedge plate in gray next to the windshield. I would try to match it to whatever color is right behind the cab, but that would require doing away with the stripe along the body or coming up with a different way to work the windshield.

Second, my thoughts on replicating prototypes vs. models vs. pure fantasy is all a matter of personal taste. If you run on R40 curves unless you build narrow gauge or early steam you will probably have to make some compromises on perfectly replicating most prototypes. 32 studs is about the limit you can go in length before you start getting into operational challenges (one can go longer and stay on R40, but the challenges increase and the trains look silly when in a curve , e.g., this). So even for a perfectionist, that limitation can set you free. The modeling companies also have come up with some nice ways to smooth over similar problems that we face with stubby cars. Heck, seeking to replicate a toy train can be a fun pursuit in itself (Classic Toy Trains).

There are some high end models that are very good. If you are modeling an obscure prototype for which there are not many pictures of the original you might be forced to resort to models for reference. For me at least, if I look at enough photos of the prototype I can spot where model designers took liberties and smooth over those flaws.

Of course even if it was made in a model that does not meet it was ever realized in real life. I always like seeing the occasional model of a dome car in a livery of a railroad that never had domes, or an SP GS4 in maroon sold as a N&W J, or a GG1 in GN colors standing in for a Little Joe, etc... Once you've spent the money on a mold the model companies want to get the widest use of it after all.

[Legownz]

On 4/11/2020 at 9:19 AM, zephyr1934 said:

First my thoughts on your model, you did a good job capturing the impossible angles of the nose. That is a feat in itself. Looking at your realization, I would think adding 2-3 plates in height to the rest of the body might make the nose look better proportioned to the rest of the loco, but then it might also make the loco feel a bit short. If you are not trying for a perfect recreation, you could go either way. I personally do not like the wedge plate in gray next to the windshield. I would try to match it to whatever color is right behind the cab, but that would require doing away with the stripe along the body or coming up with a different way to work the windshield.

Second, my thoughts on replicating prototypes vs. models vs. pure fantasy is all a matter of personal taste. If you run on R40 curves unless you build narrow gauge or early steam you will probably have to make some compromises on perfectly replicating most prototypes. 32 studs is about the limit you can go in length before you start getting into operational challenges (one can go longer and stay on R40, but the challenges increase and the trains look silly when in a curve , e.g., this). So even for a perfectionist, that limitation can set you free. The modeling companies also have come up with some nice ways to smooth over similar problems that we face with stubby cars. Heck, seeking to replicate a toy train can be a fun pursuit in itself (Classic Toy Trains).

There are some high end models that are very good. If you are modeling an obscure prototype for which there are not many pictures of the original you might be forced to resort to models for reference. For me at least, if I look at enough photos of the prototype I can spot where model designers took liberties and smooth over those flaws.

Of course even if it was made in a model that does not meet it was ever realized in real life. I always like seeing the occasional model of a dome car in a livery of a railroad that never had domes, or an SP GS4 in maroon sold as a N&W J, or a GG1 in GN colors standing in for a Little Joe, etc... Once you've spent the money on a mold the model companies want to get the widest use of it after all.

Thanks for the advice. I might mess with the height later on, but for now, I feel pretty ok about the proportions. What I do agree with you on, though, is that hideous wedge plate. I put it there originally to cover up some ugly stuff holding the windows up and to help give the angle of the front when viewing from the side. Also, I appreciate the long explanation of models and fantasy. It's interesting to hear where everyone falls on the spectrum and how they view the topic.

Anyway, this comment gave me a bit of a boost to go back and revisit the Skunknose. In addition to those wedge plates, I also wasn't entirely satisfied with the rear of the loco and especially the roof above the grills. So after some work, here is a revised model. You can download the new stud.io file in the original link if you want to play around with it. There is also the old LDD file in that link too.

And a picture of the new model with the black livery. 

EDIT: I am still super new to stud.io and I don't know everything about the program. After reading @ColletArrow's initial reply again (Right after posting my update above), I realized you can render in stud.io. I apologize for the fact that I have been giving you guys bad screenshots. Hopefully this will be nicer to look at. An A-A set with the black livery.

Edited April 16, 2020 by Legownz

[zephyr1934]

That looks a million times better without the wedge plates