Marvel Superheroes 2020 - Rumors & Discussion

[cosmic]

57 minutes ago, Guyon2002 said:

If used properly the 18+ range could give AFOLs exactly what they want without making less stuff for LEGO's main audience: kids. You won't reel in more adult fans with overpriced busts and buildable flowers, not to mention that the average poster costs a lot less than the small fortune they're asking for the Art sets and most of the time even look a lot better  I know this is very much a subjective thing but imo the 18+ line is the most useless thing LEGO has created in the last decade.

Can Lego please adopt this! My biggest concern right now is official Lego designers hearing the overwhelming dissatisfaction with the theme and taking notes. This isn’t any license, it’s one of their biggest! And if the excuse for why its so poorly handled is the demographic then surely we need to change that demographic!

Either Lego could 

1. Increase the volume of sets. Produce more sets to focus on more obscure characters and complex builds as well as the childish sets we get now.

2. keep the normal volume of sets but instead of making sets for kids and adults, simply raise the targeted age of this theme overall. Similarly  to Harry Potter this theme should no longer appeal to young kids and focus instead on appealing to older builders altogether. With an occasional  4+ set this could work for Lego.

 

Either way we need more mature sets. More complex with different characters used. Can’t say I’m mad if it comes at the expense of spider vehicles  

Edited December 3, 2020 by cosmic

[hvader]

30 minutes ago, Guyon2002 said:

imo the 18+ line is the most useless thing LEGO has created in the last decade.

I agree with this statement so much. The 18+ line is anything but 18+. Give us Daredevil. Give us Deadpool. Give us Logan. Nowadays 18+ just becomes a new name for D2C and you wonder what’s the point.

For the Lego Marvel design team, I don’t believe the designers know more about Marvel than us fans (ex: calling the Iron Man suits Blazer and Tazer and Big Time Spiderman Ultimate Spiderman). I have a feeling that even if there are hardcore Marvel fans in that team, their voices are not heard enough. A true fan would never favor products like Spidey’s helicopter over something that both makes sense and is fun like the Thanoscopter and think that Square Enix Avengers is the most popular Marvel property of all time and deserves more sets than Endgame.

I think Lego got the completely wrong message from the Endgame wave’s success: maybe they thought that simplistic builds that make no sense (Cap’s motorcycle) were the reason why that wave sold instead of the wave being based on the most popular Marvel property ever (talking about Lego Endgame just makes me sad).

Also, as much as I love Avengers tower, I hope the 2020 sets didn’t sell well so Lego realizes that their current Marvel products don’t work. That’s the only way they’ll change. Does anyone know the sales numbers for the 2020 sets? 

Edited December 3, 2020 by HarryVader

[BrickBob Studpants]

58 minutes ago, Guyon2002 said:

If used properly the 18+ range could give AFOLs exactly what they want without making less stuff for LEGO's main audience: kids.

That‘s exactly the problem  Only targeting AFOLs makes little sense from a business POV. Kids and casual customers outweigh us hardcore fans by a large margin. We AFOLs buy the „childish“ sets anyway, so there‘s little point in catering to us specifically without also targeting either of the other groups.

Let‘s take an example: more detailed minifigs. AFOLs would be happy, the kids who get them might be too, and the other potential adults that previously didn‘t care about LEGO... still don‘t care. Nobody who ignored the brand before will start buying sets just because of some additional printing or a Daredevil minifig  A helmet or a bonsai is different, it‘s something new that may catch people‘s attention.

TLDR: Catering to AFOLs only is not that good of a business idea 

34 minutes ago, HarryVader said:

I hope the 2020 sets didn’t sell well so Lego realizes that their current Marvel products don’t work. That’s the only way they’ll change. 

More like the only way to make sure their budget gets reduced  You may not like how the theme is handled, but the sets seem to sell

40 minutes ago, cosmic said:

My biggest concern right now is official Lego designers hearing the overwhelming dissatisfaction with the theme and taking notes.

You mean in this thread  Us AFOLs will always remain a minority compared to kids, never forget that. Same with any fandom actually, casual fans are always more common than hardcore ones

Edited December 3, 2020 by Lego-Freak

[ToaDraco]

26 minutes ago, Lego-Freak said:

More like the only way to make sure their budget gets reduced  You may not like how the theme is handled, but the sets seem to sell

They don't sell well enough considering the value of the license. Has Marvel ever even come close to being one of the top selling themes year after year? Given what a cultural juggernaut Marvel is, it should be and LEGO should be asking themselves why there's such a discrepancy. Again, you don't see these issues with other toy companies with the Marvel license.

[lego_guyon02]

28 minutes ago, Lego-Freak said:

That‘s exactly the problem  Only targeting AFOLs makes little sense from a business POV. Kids and casual customers outweigh us hardcore fans by a large margin. We AFOLs buy the „childish“ sets anyway, so there‘s little point in catering to us specifically without also targeting either of the other groups.

Let‘s take an example: more detailed minifigs. AFOLs would be happy, the kids who get them might be too, and the other potential adults that previously didn‘t care about LEGO... still don‘t care. Nobody who ignored the brand before will start buying sets just because of some additional printing or a Daredevil minifig  A helmet or a bonsai is different, it‘s something new that may catch people‘s attention.

TLDR: Catering to AFOLs only is not that good of a business idea 

I know that catering to AFOLs only isn't the smartest thing from a business pov but you asked my opinion on the 18+ line so that's exactly what you got 

Just now, ToaDraco said:

They don't sell well enough considering the value of the license. Has Marvel ever even come close to being one of the top selling themes year after year? Given what a cultural juggernaut Marvel is, it should be and LEGO should be asking themselves why there's such a discrepancy. Again, you don't see these issues with other toy companies with the Marvel license.

They did last year.

But I definetely agree with your last point: LEGO has no clue what they're doing with this license. 

[BrickBob Studpants]

27 minutes ago, ToaDraco said:

They don't sell well enough considering the value of the license. Has Marvel ever even come close to being one of the top selling themes year after year? Given what a cultural juggernaut Marvel is, it should be and LEGO should be asking themselves why there's such a discrepancy. Again, you don't see these issues with other toy companies with the Marvel license.

Being in the top 6 is not really the best indicator though  Most of the themes in there are in-house ones that have a higher budget and way more sets (just look the amount of City and Friends sets each year). Not even Ninjago can always crack the top 6! And as @Guyon2002 said, Marvel did manage to do so last year.

And do we know how well other Marvel merch sells? Do Endgame toys for instance really outsell Star Wars merch? I‘m not sure how much box office and toy sales really correlate 

[lego_guyon02]

6 minutes ago, Lego-Freak said:

And do we know how well other Marvel merch sells? Do Endgame toys for instance really outsell Star Wars merch? I‘m not sure how much box office and toy sales really correlate 

Yes we do: https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/hasbro-toy-sales-crush-estimates-boosted-by-avengers-endgame-2019-7-1028380884

[hvader]

Remember the reason why the 2019 Marvel sets sold well was because of Endgame (from my memory and please correct me if I'm wrong 2019 was the only year Marvel was on the top selling list). Everyone wanted Endgame merchandise and the Lego sets benefitted from that. 2020 is horrible because Lego gave us variants that no one asked for (Square Enix). What confuses me is that Lego, while making Square Enix variants, is also trying hard for the 2020 sets to tie into the MCU (Thanos mech used the knight's helmet to make him look more like his Endgame appearance. Prototype Iron Man, Tazer, and Blazer are all inspired by MCU suits. The armory expansion set and the Avengers tower both featured numerous callbacks to the MCU). If so, why didn't they just give us desirable MCU variants (Legacy sets) like Mark 3, Iron Monger, and the missing Endgame variants? These are more popular than any of the Square Enix designs. I assume Lego has all the rights to make them as Hasbro and Funko are both making figures and toys from past MCU movies. They just actively decided to avoid them for some reason. Don't tell me kids don't like the MCU because Hasbro made a ton of money with their MCU and Endgame toys. This is why I said Lego has 0 ideas about what to do with Marvel. Just thinking about this makes me very frustrated because I just cannot, in any way, understand Lego's decisions for Marvel this year. Do the Lego designers just hate the MCU? Do they just dislike Marvel Studios?

Edited December 3, 2020 by HarryVader

[BrickBob Studpants]

43 minutes ago, HarryVader said:

Do the Lego designers just hate the MCU? Do they just dislike Marvel Studios?

Yes, obviously  They have no work ethics at all and let their hatred of the MCU and all its fans, especially here on EB, lead every single design choice. This is A-ok with Marvel, because they have equal disdain for the MCU. When they found out how you guys feel about the Square Enix game, they kicked set production into high gear in order to feast on your delicious tears. Your misery is their greatest joy  

[hvader]

21 minutes ago, Lego-Freak said:

Your misery is their greatest joy  

Haha . In all honesty though (and despite all my complaining), I don’t think Lego hates Marvel fans. Every once in a while they do make something that surprises everyone in a good way. I don’t think Lego knows how to take advantage of the MCU’s immense popularity and I certainly don’t believe Lego cares about us Marvel fans as much as fans of other properties like Harry Potter, Star Wars, and even Overwatch (Marvel is currently a bigger property than all of those). When you look at those sets, don’t you wish more Marvel sets could be as good as them? 

22 minutes ago, Lego-Freak said:

When they found out how you guys feel about the Square Enix game, they kicked set production into high gear

To be fair, that is what kind of happened haha . The Square Enix game was not well received since its reveal a long long time ago, yet we still got too many sets for it

Edited December 3, 2020 by HarryVader

[Marvelous Spidey]

Just to play devil's advocate (I do agree that LEGO isn't doing as good of a job as they could with Marvel) but LEGO put a lot of money into Overwatch and that theme crashed and burned. Now there's a few reasons for that, the biggest being LEGO was WAYYYY late on the Overwatch hype train, but LEGO may have taken that as a sign that putting so much into the licensed sets is risky. Just a thought.

I mean what licensed themes have really been a hit and stuck around? DC, Marvel, Harry Potter, Disney stuff, Jurassic World, and Minecraft? Really only Harry Potter has been what AFOLs would truly want from it, maybe Minecraft too but that's such a simple style that it's not as hard to pull off. Hidden Side has probably been the most detailed in house IP they've ever made and that only lasted 2 years. My assumption is that LEGO's internal data is showing the sets they're putting less money into are some of their best sellers so they're sticking with that strategy. I would love if the quality of the Marvel sets were at the level of the HP sets or the current Avengers Tower on a regular basis and I think it's good that people are voicing their frustration that it isn't at that level. Unfortunately, I don't think LEGO will ever get to that point. Venom, Carnage, and vehicles sell too well so they won't stop making them until they aren't good sellers. What I really hope for is more buildings and new characters WITH their big sellers.

[Borex]

———

edit: anyway i am looking forward to the GhostRider set

Edited December 4, 2020 by Borex
Unnecessary negative

[Captain_MKA]

Just of curiosity when are we going to have a 2021 rumor and discussion board?

[NXS7]

56 minutes ago, Captain_MKA said:

Just of curiosity when are we going to have a 2021 rumor and discussion board?

Jan 1st

[hvader]

With WB moving their entire 2021 slate onto streaming, I have a feeling that Disney/Marvel may do the same with some of the 2021 Marvel films. For us, this could mean that the new MCU sets will not be delayed further.

However, I wish that Shang-Chi can still release in theaters as it means so much to the Asian community and gives us some much-needed positive Asian representation in Hollywood films. It’d be such a shame if Shang-Chi became a streaming movie.

Edited December 4, 2020 by HarryVader

[ToaDraco]

2 hours ago, HarryVader said:

With WB moving their entire 2021 slate onto streaming, I have a feeling that Disney/Marvel may do the same with some of the 2021 Marvel films. For us, this could mean that the new MCU sets will not be delayed further.

However, I wish that Shang-Chi can still release in theaters as it means so much to the Asian community and gives us some much-needed positive Asian representation in Hollywood films. It’d be such a shame if Shang-Chi became a streaming movie.

It was a big surprise to be sure, but a pleasant one. I do hope this forces Disney's hand since they have been refusing to even release Black Widow on D+ even for $30. Let's be honest, how many people are still hyped for this movie or were hyped for it to begin with? I'm looking forward to it but it's a stepping stone to bigger and better things and it getting pushed back pushed back the MCU and that makes it even less exciting to me and now I just want it to be over and done.

It would definitely suck if Shang-Chi had to be put on streaming instead of theaters for the reasons you mention but the alternative is worse. If they had to delay it again thereby pushing back more of phase 4, I say throw it on D+ and do a simultaneous theater release for places where it's safe enough like what WB is doing.

I do wonder how these sudden changes impact set releases like with DC and now potentially Marvel. 

Edited December 4, 2020 by ToaDraco

[lego_guyon02]

1 hour ago, ToaDraco said:

It was a big surprise to be sure, but a pleasant one. I do hope this forces Disney's hand since they have been refusing to even release Black Widow on D+ even for $30. Let's be honest, how many people are still hyped for this movie or were hyped for it to begin with? I'm looking forward to it but it's a stepping stone to bigger and better things and it getting pushed back pushed back the MCU and that makes it even less exciting to me and now I just want it to be over and done.

It would definitely suck if Shang-Chi had to be put on streaming instead of theaters for the reasons you mention but the alternative is worse. If they had to delay it again thereby pushing back more of phase 4, I say throw it on D+ and do a simultaneous theater release for places where it's safe enough like what WB is doing.

I do wonder how these sudden changes impact set releases like with DC and now potentially Marvel. 

I can't be the only one who's happy didn't give Black Widow the Premiere Acess treatment right? $30 just to watch it once is bloody ridiculous, especially for someone who watches these films alone!

Straight to D+ definetely won't happen with any of the future MCU films but with WB taking this big step I could definetely see Disney following suit and do dual releases. 

EDIT: and why would you even want BW to go to D+? Legitimately curious as the theatre experience is much better than at home 

Edited December 4, 2020 by Guyon2002

[ToaDraco]

2 hours ago, Guyon2002 said:

I can't be the only one who's happy didn't give Black Widow the Premiere Acess treatment right? $30 just to watch it once is bloody ridiculous, especially for someone who watches these films alone!

Straight to D+ definetely won't happen with any of the future MCU films but with WB taking this big step I could definetely see Disney following suit and do dual releases. 

EDIT: and why would you even want BW to go to D+? Legitimately curious as the theatre experience is much better than at home 

Because like I said, it's holding things up and my hype for BW wasn't ever that high to begin with and at this point I have very little excitement for it. Yes, theater experience is better but at this point I just want BW to be over with so we can get to the bigger, better stuff. They should drop it on D+ for free not charge $30, especially after what WB just pulled. 

[BrickBob Studpants]

2 hours ago, ToaDraco said:

Yes, theater experience is better but at this point I just want BW to be over with so we can get to the bigger, better stuff. They should drop it on D+ for free not charge $30, especially after what WB just pulled. 

BW would easily have taken in at least 700-800 million $ worldwide if it was released theatrically, so how do you expect them to earn that by basically giving the movie away for free?  They‘d need to have a MASSIVE spike in subscribers to make up for that. And streaming services are a gold mine for torrent websites, they offer the newest movies in HD on a silver platter, on day one. Why pay for a subscription if you can watch the thing with the same quality for free?

People, especially CBM fans, don‘t seem to realise that big budget films won‘t be viable any more if they cannot continue to gross as much as they did before. You‘d better hope BW performs well if you want „bigger, better stuff“. If this is the future, Endgame-scale movies are done for.

[hvader]

3 hours ago, ToaDraco said:

Because like I said, it's holding things up and my hype for BW wasn't ever that high to begin with and at this point I have very little excitement for it. Yes, theater experience is better but at this point I just want BW to be over with so we can get to the bigger, better stuff. 

I guess we’ll differ on that because I’m still extremely excited for Black Widow. Finally getting to see Natasha’s solo film as well as a movie version of Taskmaster makes this film a must-watch for me.

54 minutes ago, Lego-Freak said:

People, especially CBM fans, don‘t seem to realise that big budget films won‘t be viable any more if they cannot continue to gross as much as they did before. You‘d better hope BW performs well if you want „bigger, better stuff“. If this is the future, Endgame-scale movies are done for.

Exactly. Movies will never earn as much on streaming as they did in theaters since platforms like D+ and HBO Max earn their revenue via subscriber count and not by how well each film performed. If all films go to streaming in the future, we could very well see the end of big-budget blockbusters like Endgame. As CBM fans we should, like you said, hope that these movies succeed as much as they can and pray that such moves are contingency plans rather than something that continues even after the pandemic is over.

Edited December 4, 2020 by HarryVader

[cosmic]

On 12/3/2020 at 11:55 AM, Lego-Freak said:

That‘s exactly the problem  Only targeting AFOLs makes little sense from a business POV. Kids and casual customers outweigh us hardcore fans by a large margin. We AFOLs buy the „childish“ sets anyway, so there‘s little point in catering to us specifically without also targeting either of the other groups.

A few things.I can’t speak for anyone else on what they’d like to see change but the ideas I bring forward is a greater volume of newer characters introduced annually as well as a more accurate print with greater attention to detail on the figures. I also want builds that focus more on relevant source materials and yes, structures. Looking at other Lego lines, creator for example. The modular sets are typically aimed at older builders but sets like the family house are aimed at builders age 8-12. A set like that meets the quality of build I would demand. Lego does not have to focus their sets on an adult population to improve its quality. Comparing the Creator Family House 31012 to this years Spider Base build, the 2013 Creator set is more intricate in its build and was $70 upon release compared to the overpriced and simplified build we get for e in 2021. My point is Lego sets don’t have to be 18+ to have good builds. If anything Lego has gone down in quality and simplified their builds over time, and a return to sets being under $100 and still meeting a size able build with a reasonable price per piece is what we want. 

[ToaDraco]

7 hours ago, Lego-Freak said:

BW would easily have taken in at least 700-800 million $ worldwide if it was released theatrically, so how do you expect them to earn that by basically giving the movie away for free?  They‘d need to have a MASSIVE spike in subscribers to make up for that. And streaming services are a gold mine for torrent websites, they offer the newest movies in HD on a silver platter, on day one. Why pay for a subscription if you can watch the thing with the same quality for free?

People, especially CBM fans, don‘t seem to realise that big budget films won‘t be viable any more if they cannot continue to gross as much as they did before. You‘d better hope BW performs well if you want „bigger, better stuff“. If this is the future, Endgame-scale movies are done for.

It doesn't change the fact that having movies done, just sitting there waiting is losing them money and the number of reasons to have a D+ subscription are very few right now. The longer they wait, the less they're likely to make back on it. Meanwhile, HBO Max is stepping up their game and Disney will need to step up to stay competitive. Right now really the only big thing D+ has going for it is the Mandalorian and we won't get our first Marvel show for another month at least. As a consumer I want better value for my investment. Also, you act like I'm saying all comic book movies going forward should be put on streaming rather than theaters which is ridiculous and of course the high budgets wouldn't last. It's not like putting new movies directly onto streaming is going to be a permanent thing, it's only for the pandemic which will still be around for another year.

[lego_guyon02]

1 minute ago, ToaDraco said:

Meanwhile, HBO Max is stepping up their game and Disney will need to step up to stay competitive. 

Could be me but putting new movies on a streaming service that's exclusive to the US isn't really ''stepping up their game''.

[hvader]

We’ll wait to see what Disney announces in the 12/10 meeting. As much as I want BW in theaters I feel that it will go to D+. Given the uncertainty of 2021, I feel that Disney/Marvel may not want to delay BW further as that will change the entire phase 4 schedule once again. That said, I don’t think Disney needs to put all of its 2021 movies on streaming. D+ now has close to 100 million subscribers with basically just Mando. Imagine the subscriber increase once these MCU shows start coming out (Lego you better get on the hype train and make us some Disney+ MCU sets)

Edited December 4, 2020 by HarryVader

[lego_guyon02]

14 minutes ago, HarryVader said:

We’ll wait to see what Disney announces in the 12/10 meeting. As much as I want BW in theaters I feel that it will go to D+. Given the uncertainty of 2021, I feel that Disney/Marvel may not want to delay BW further as that will change the entire phase 4 schedule once again. That said, I don’t think Disney needs to put all of its 2021 movies on streaming. D+ now has close to 100 million subscribers with basically just Mando. Imagine the subscriber increase once these MCU shows start coming out (Lego you better get on the hype train and make us some Disney+ MCU sets)

If they do decide to put it on D+ I hope it's a dual release. I'll never watch a new Marvel movie at home if theatres are an option