Fx Bricks (Michael Gale) announces Fx Track system

[Ashi Valkoinen]

About the price tag and the people's need for these switches:

All NEW elements sold out in pre-order in one day (my local time is + 6 hours compared to EST).

In Europe JB-Spielwaren already sold 50-60 boxes of 1L+1R, 120-140 boxes of 2L; 2R boxes, in total approx. 300 boxes. In one single day.

[Ashi Valkoinen]

UPDATE: Items are available for pre-order again at FX website.

[Duq]

Jeez... I had hoped for that sort of money you'd get the S8 or R64 with the switches. If you just want to do a simple passing track with 1L and 1R then you need 2 S8' and 2 R64P's but you can only buy them in packs of 8...

[michaelgale]

Hello All,  Sorry for not checking into this forum in some time -- I have been *busy* as you can tell by the recent release of our P40 switches!

1. First of all :  A big thank you to everyone for supporting us and for your patience over the past 18-24 months.  We are very much encouraged by the initial support for the pre-orders of the P40 switches and we can't wait to deliver them to you.

2. The "Sold Out" status for the P40 switches on our site was due to a Shopify plugin bug.  It's been fixed, so if you got caught out, it should be back to normal.  There is an actual risk that we will actually sell out of this first production batch--so if you're keen to get 9V switches this summer, act now!  We have scheduled a couple more production runs over the next 12 months, but we don't know when they will occur or what their lead-times will be.

3. THE PRICE!  Let me be clear:  150 USD for 2x metal rail switches of this size is 100% reasonable and consistent with global model train industry.  I think we in the LEGO train world are so "calibrated" to plastic track pricing and/or LEGO retail product volume pricing for tracks, that we lose sight of what the price / value relationship is.  

For example, here are some retail unit prices for comparable metal rail model train switches in O gauge and gauge 1:

LGB 16040 Right Turnout : €87.99
LGB 18050 Right Manual Turnout 15º : €155.00
Piko Left Switch R7 22.5º 35226 :  €132.00
Piko Left Switch R5 30º 35222 : €94.00
Piko Left Switch R3 22.5º 35228 :  €90.00
Lionel FasTrack O32 Left Switch 681254 :  $129.99 USD
Lionel FasTrack O36 Left Switch 612017 :  $54.99 USD

On average (taking approx. F/X rates) this represents about €98 per switch.  One P40 switch retails for €85 (€169.99 for 2x) on JBS.  Clearly, our pricing is consistent with the market.  Furthermore, all the above manufacturers have their products made in China just like us (I've visited their factories!)  -- so our retail prices are based on the same base costs, expenses, margins, etc.

We also notice many folks from the EU visit our Canadian shop to compare pricing.  Let me assure you JBS pricing virtually the same.  Also remember that the JBS price of €169.99 includes approximately 20% VAT whereas the Canadian shop price is EXCLUSIVE of VAT--Canadian customers will pay 5-13% (depending on province) more on checkout and pay roughly the same.  The effects of currency conversions and local taxation can make price comparison difficult and misleading.  That is why we nominally work in USD inside Fx Bricks since all of our costs are fundamentally incurred in USD.  It is also why we've set a nominal MSRP of $150 USD ($75 USD per unit).

The bottom line is that $75 USD per switch is very reasonable, this will be especially noticeable when you finally get the real thing!  :)

4. Please don't forget that releasing the P40 switch is HALF the story.  We also had to offer the R64P curve track and S1.6/S3.2 straight tracks at the same time.  Otherwise, the P40 by itself would be much less useful for building layouts.  We believe the decision to release these elements as individual products is better for both us and for you.  For us, it makes inventory and production planning easier and it makes the logic behind our product system crystal clear, i.e. how each element fits together.  The benefit for you is better choice and the ability to target your purchases to what you really need--especially for the highest priced P40 switches.  Adding extra elements to every box of P40 switches that most customers won't need just increases the price of every box unnecessarily.  If you're building a yard or crossovers, you want to make sure every $75 USD spent is for the switch you need.  That is also why we offer the P40 switch as 3x SKUs:  (i) 2x P40L Left, (ii) 2x P40R Right, or (iii) 1x P40L + 1x P40R.  Folks building crossovers will love the opportunity to buy a pair of the same switches.

Once again, thank you everyone for your support over the past few (very challenging) years.  Rest assured we're still marching forward on the all other products such as power accessories and wheel/motor drive systems.  We should have some good news regarding power feeders and accessory cables very very soon!  Stay tuned!

 

[Duq]

I totally understand your point @michaelgale. Thing is, those R64P curves don't really fit anywhere else in the system. So to pay €80 for 8 pieces, of which I'll probably need/use 1 or 2 doesn't feel great. I mean, I'll crack open the piggybank anyway...

By the way, the Piko R5 you mentioned does come with a piece of 7.5 degree curve to bring it back into system if you don't use it in a crossover ;-)

Now, how far did you say the development of a double-slip cross was?

[michaelgale]

@Duq Fully understand the dilemma of buying 8x elements when you might only need 1 or 2.  If its any consolation, R64P curves can be used to make grid aligned S-bends with any multiple of 8-stud offset?  Lastly, I guess one could always split a box with a friend! :)

Ahhhh...the double slip!  A god-tier track element!  Obviously its not on the radar currently, but someday maybe?  We would make a 22.62º diamond crossing first--a less risky stepping stone to the summit!

 

[UltraViolet]

  Any word on when the S32 track will be back in stock?  I would have placed a larger preorder than I did on the new track items, but I'm waiting on the S32's to reappear.  It seems there is an insatiable appetite for these.

  I really would have loved to see an S48 to fit the 48-stud baseplates using just a single section, as I'm making a large number of modular street-track sections using these baseplates.  What I really need, though, is fully hidden electrical feeders that are flush with the railhead and don't have more than 2x2 tile surface visible with the wires attached.  Soldered wires are my only choice at the moment.  The prototype feeders you have shown are the wrong colour for the Light Bluish Gray tiles I'm using to emulate poured concrete around the track, so I'm hoping you can also offer LBG colour, in which case I may be able to make them work by permanently attaching the wire to them.  (That is, once they are eventually available, of course).

  I'm also dying waiting for the release of the new motor bogie!  That's going to be the real game-changer.

[Ashi Valkoinen]

Replying to @Duq about the R64P elements.

Basically I needed 17 switches, but no R64P curves at all. It would be really unhappy for me to buy 18 switches and 18 R64P curves, what I would never use. And since R104 is becoming some new standard in scaled lego model railroading I guess many of us will never insert the sharp R64P into layout and will use the non-perfect but working P40 + 2x R104 curve solution to come paralel. (Since divergent route is 22,62 degrees instead of 22,5, there will be a little stress on the R104 curves but they would surely work.)

Maybe you need a box of R104 for your siding (4 pieces you need), so you may spare a box of R64P and the special straights.

 

6 hours ago, michaelgale said:

@Duq 

Ahhhh...the double slip!  A god-tier track element!  Obviously its not on the radar currently, but someday maybe?  We would make a 22.62º diamond crossing first--a less risky stepping stone to the summit!

 

However P40 switches haven't arrived, I was wondering if the developement and tooling for a crossover version could be the next step using all the experience you got from the P40s. I mean, only the end of diverging route and the middle crossing part (which is electrically a hard part) must be designed, while the switching mechanism and jumper under the P40 switch base can be used with no modification at all. :)

[GoHabsGo]

@michaelgale I totally understand the rationals behind the price. 

Do you have any news related to the motor? 

[Szubi]

I’ll piggy back on the motor bogie question - any updates on that?

[michaelgale]

@UltraViolet We're expecting a small consignment of S32's + S8's in 2-3 weeks.  S48's are an interesting idea; however, I suspect the molding costs for this would be steep due to the size and tolerance requirements.  Most folks are wanting us to release the S16 ASAP--that will at least allow you to fill an integer multiple of 48 studs.  Re: the power feeder, it is dark bluish gray as most folks would expect/prefer.  It does maintain a flat 2x2 tile profile either side of the rail head, but has a 1x2 plate protrusion adjacent.  This was a necessary engineering requirement to enclose the connector terminals as well as offering a point of "leverage" for insertion/removal.  

@Duq @Ashi Valkoinen Yes, the R104 can be used in a sub-optimal way as both a return curve as well forming a 90 deg curve off of the diverging route.  Obviously, you use at your own risk, but practically speaking it is unlikely to damage the components as long as you try to distribute the stresses equally among all rail joints by letting the track formation "float" above the ground between fastening points to baseplates/etc.  

@UltraViolet @GoHabsGo @Szubi The motor bogie is still in development, but has taken a back seat to the metal wheelset pickup.  The reasons for this are:  1. It lowers the overall technical risk since we confine the risk to the development of the metal wheel component, axle bushings, pickup wipers etc.  These elements can then be used with confidence with the motor bogie.  2. The metal wheelset has a bigger receptive market than the motor bogie (at least in the beginning).  More folks can use the wheelset "out of the box" to power existing trains using 9V, PF, or PU motor drives.  Furthermore, folks who simply want to energize lighting or accessories can use the wheelset too.  3. Lastly, the wheelset will obviously have a lower retail price point than the motor bogie, therefore giving more folks the opportunity to embrace the benefits of metal rails and exploring the 9V rail system incrementally.  

[MellonHead]

.l@michaelgale Since the teaser of the metal wheelset pickup i recently implemented it in one of my models for the future as a permanent light fixture for the locomotive firebox. It is going to be so usefull as it has the same formfactor as the Lego wheelset. I also long for more motor bogie's but metal wheelset pickups would be amazing to! I think it is a smart move to start of with that! Also to see what other fans may do with it. No doubt new bogies will be made eventually! The design process takes time and i understand many risks might impact you and your company which is not beneficial for growth and development.

I first wanted to place a light brick inside the boiler, but you would have to build and press some lever system to make it work which takes up space and messes with the techniques (especially the shape of this boiler in particular) which i used to  attach the pannels at the sides of the boiler all the way to the top above the firebox and directly next to the cab. Secondly it could be done ofcourse, but would use even more hardcore techniques then already used and the light brick would run out of batteries eventually which means unnecessary demolishment of the boiler is needed, which would annoy me in the long run. If this light brick would "die" after so many years i wouldn't mind replacing it. I have placed a LEGO 9volt light brick inside the firebox with a LEGO 9 volt connection wire to the metal wheelset pickup and used it as the trailing bogie under the cab. Because the old LEGO 9 volt stud connections and your new connectors as well, it is directly buildable with normal LEGO bricks ofcource. Which gives it more strength and stability at the end, instead of the LEGO Power Functions connector with only 2 stud connections instead of 4. Not to mention powered up which does not really connect to the system anymore unfortunately.

I am glad you guys kept the design of the LEGO 9 volt studded iron connection and even made an upgrade within it!  This means the top of this boiler is clear for designing it's 'particular shape' and wouldn't interfere with the 'lightbrick press technique' as the wiring is build in quite low into the locomotive frame. Esspesially with DCC in the future the firebox would always be nicely lit and makes it more realistically looking. In the future i would like to ad lights to the front of the loco with your light attachment products. As of now i am planning to build it this weekend/next week as i am scraping for parts in my collection with the final elements being on their way to be build. I will put in the 9 volt light brick and connection wire from LEGO with a standard LEGO wheelset and replace it as soon as it will be available with your metal wheelset pickup! As i can't wait for you to release more products later/at the end of this year i hope?! 

Also how would one metal wheelset pickup react to the crossing vee of the P40 switch, as power is temporarily cut of for a split second depending on how fast you would go over it. Because there is only one wheel for power pickup on either side, or will it keep giving power so to speak without glitches? So my firebox wouldn't glitch, but be well lit at all times.

I also think of it in this very usefull way that with your metal wheelset pickup you can swap coaches and locomotives without having to uncouple electrical wires coming from the power source (Locomotive) running between coaches of your train but coming straight from the rails through the metal wheelset pickup themselves. This i think would also take no small percentage of power form the motor bogie as lights from the same source would slightly pick up from that and affect the pulling power from the moter. It ultimately makes the plug and play experience far more easier and way more accessible on so many levels!

This is why i integrated it in my locomotive itself and not via the tender through the locomotive. Once i am done driving around and in my case have to (shed's tear) rip apart my layout which runs through our living room i can pick up the locomotive and tender separately which is convenient for showing purposes and accessibility which makes more sence, want to see the firebox just lift the locomotive from the tender coupling and voila. The same goes for the coaches which is quite easy for storaging them until some other time. without having to disconnect electrical wires as well.

Thanks for reading in advance!

Greetings,

Edited June 15, 2023 by MellonHead

[Jeffinslaw]

I've been working on a DIY power pickup that I plan on offering on my site. Based on the design shown by another member here.

DIY Power Pickups by Jeffinslaw, on Flickr

Should have them available very soon.

- Jeff

Edited June 16, 2023 by Jeffinslaw

[XG BC]

if we talk about pickups there is also this option:

but to get back on topic thank you @michaelgale for your efforts to bring back 9v!

Edited June 16, 2023 by XG BC

[MellonHead]

@Jeffinslaw Awesome! I would like to see them in action!

@XG BC Cool! I did see that video once before and pretty clever made, although some things will be weak, like the contact brushes on the rails and the wire attached to them makes building around the bogie a bit tricky i guess, But a nice way to make your own bogie back to be track driven again, have you tried modifying one yourself?

7 hours ago, XG BC said:

if we talk about pickups there is also this option: 

but to get back on topic thank you @michaelgale for your efforts to bring back 9v!

Agreed on the 9volt returning!

So much emotional value from this system that brings back so many great memories from my childhood, and now as an adult with more knowledge of the LEGO system and how to build better looking models, this really gets me excited!  

Greetings.

[Modeltrainman]

On 6/14/2023 at 10:26 AM, michaelgale said:

@UltraViolet We're expecting a small consignment of S32's + S8's in 2-3 weeks.  S48's are an interesting idea; however, I suspect the molding costs for this would be steep due to the size and tolerance requirements.  Most folks are wanting us to release the S16 ASAP--that will at least allow you to fill an integer multiple of 48 studs.  Re: the power feeder, it is dark bluish gray as most folks would expect/prefer.  It does maintain a flat 2x2 tile profile either side of the rail head, but has a 1x2 plate protrusion adjacent.  This was a necessary engineering requirement to enclose the connector terminals as well as offering a point of "leverage" for insertion/removal.  

@Duq @Ashi Valkoinen Yes, the R104 can be used in a sub-optimal way as both a return curve as well forming a 90 deg curve off of the diverging route.  Obviously, you use at your own risk, but practically speaking it is unlikely to damage the components as long as you try to distribute the stresses equally among all rail joints by letting the track formation "float" above the ground between fastening points to baseplates/etc.  

@UltraViolet @GoHabsGo @Szubi The motor bogie is still in development, but has taken a back seat to the metal wheelset pickup.  The reasons for this are:  1. It lowers the overall technical risk since we confine the risk to the development of the metal wheel component, axle bushings, pickup wipers etc.  These elements can then be used with confidence with the motor bogie.  2. The metal wheelset has a bigger receptive market than the motor bogie (at least in the beginning).  More folks can use the wheelset "out of the box" to power existing trains using 9V, PF, or PU motor drives.  Furthermore, folks who simply want to energize lighting or accessories can use the wheelset too.  3. Lastly, the wheelset will obviously have a lower retail price point than the motor bogie, therefore giving more folks the opportunity to embrace the benefits of metal rails and exploring the 9V rail system incrementally.  

Any idea when the track connector is coming?

[XG BC]

@MellonHead did it myself. these are from slotcars so they are made for that and you bend them like this once and it works. nothing really is weak. ofcourse you need so somehow mount them but thats not hard to find a spot where they fit usually.

 

[MellonHead]

@XG BC Good to know that it works!

My thoughts on the weak points were more of the contact brushes as those might catch on the rail joints or between switch gaps and bend in different directions away from the track. But those are on slotcar race tracks as well ofcourse! Didn't think about that, i think it is a neat solution for converting!

Greetings,

 

[Marlow]

On 6/14/2023 at 6:25 AM, Ashi Valkoinen said:

However P40 switches haven't arrived, I was wondering if the developement and tooling for a crossover version could be the next step using all the experience you got from the P40s. I mean, only the end of diverging route and the middle crossing part (which is electrically a hard part) must be designed, while the switching mechanism and jumper under the P40 switch base can be used with no modification at all. :)

Seeing, that we're replicating TrixBrix portfolio, just moulded and electrified, the design for the R104 double crossover is already available (hint hint) :P Just needs to be electrified.

I've 14x P40 switches coming my way and that's not even half of the layout, but there are portions, I won't be able to electrify due to the use of TrixBrix Monster switch, tripple R104 and double slipovers. Either way, the P40 switches are a massive step forward, for sure. I bought one box of R64 curves, but I'll doubt, I'll use them.

/M

Edited July 16, 2023 by Marlow

[zephyr1934]

2 hours ago, Marlow said:

Seeing, that we're replicating TrixBrix portfolio, just moulded and electrified, the design for the R104 double crossover is already available (hint hint) :P Just needs to be electrified.

I've 14x P40 switches coming my way and that's not even half of the layout, but there are portions, I won't be able to electrify due to the use of TrixBrix Monster switch, tripple R104 and double slipovers. Either way, the P40 switches are a massive step forward, for sure. I bought one box of R64 curves, but I'll doubt, I'll use them.

I think BrickTracks was first to announce the R104 switch, but TrixBrix got their 3D printed variant to market long before BT was able to get the molded track to market. Whatever the history, these wide radius curves and switches are enabling a level of detail in lego trains that is incredible. But none of that is the reason for my post.

The 12v track was a comprehensive system that had all sorts of remote control. Most of those functions were abandoned with the move to 9v. One key element that persisted into 9v was the fact that the switches would cut power to the opposing movement. So you could isolate a siding (any 9v motors would be stopped) while trans ran on the mainline, or vice versa.

As a result of the built in power cutoff in the switches, most 9v builders never worried about having to explicitly isolated track sections.

My understanding of the new P40 switches is that they are a marvel of engineering (so far I've only seen the prototypes shared at Brickworld last year), but they are designed with the vision that they will fit into a DCC-like world of operation. In other words, power is always on to both branches. In the long run, I believe the intent is to have smart motors that are told when to go and at what speed (like DCC), but the stock Lego 9v motors are dumb DC, apply power and they go. Even in this world with DCC-like control, many users are likely to stick with DC power.

In using P40 switches for DC operation, you will need to isolate different track segments and have separate power supply lines. This can be done in pure lego for a lot of $$$ (polarity switches, extension wires, and track connections) or non-Lego for much less (e.g., stereo wire and soldered connections to the track).

Within all of this, you need isolation joints. The easiest method I've come up with is to take clear packing tape, apply it to itself (sticky side to sticky side, so you essentially have a non-glued strip of thick plastic tape) and cut it to size so that it will fit between 9v track rail joints. This way it is non-destructive and can easily be undone if you want to rearrange your track.

No matter what, as you head into the world of P40 switches with normal Lego 9v train motors, as long as you want different sections of track at different speeds (including a train parked on a siding) you will also need to have isolated joints. Fortunately, isolated joints are not difficult to make.

 

[Marlow]

4 hours ago, zephyr1934 said:

This can be done in pure lego for a lot of $$$ (polarity switches, extension wires, and track connections) or non-Lego for much less (e.g., stereo wire and soldered connections to the track).

Original Lego 9V motors have already been modified (with rectifier and PF components), so that you can drive them using PF, but without battery box, but using power from the track instead. That is the path, I am taking anyhow until FXbricks can give us DCC motors. The modified setup being PF means, that it also can be used with the Mattzobricks PF controller for full automation.

There is no real difference between the motor in a 9V bogey and the motor in a PF bogey, so just a matter of bringing the wiring up to the receiver.

Bypassing the isolation of the Lego R40 switches (if still in use) shouldn't be a big problem either.

So a DIY approach is well feasable. WIth this approach, the train wouldn't care, what polarity the track has and would be controlled like any other PF train. As many third party remote controllers also have adopted PF cabling, lots of alternatives are available.

/M

Edited July 16, 2023 by Marlow

[Duq]

On 7/16/2023 at 2:50 PM, zephyr1934 said:

My understanding of the new P40 switches is that they are a marvel of engineering (so far I've only seen the prototypes shared at Brickworld last year), but they are designed with the vision that they will fit into a DCC-like world of operation. In other words, power is always on to both branches. In the long run, I believe the intent is to have smart motors that are told when to go and at what speed (like DCC), but the stock Lego 9v motors are dumb DC, apply power and they go. Even in this world with DCC-like control, many users are likely to stick with DC power.

In one of the first real-world tests Michael realised this issue and the solution is a jumper underneath that allows you to use the switch in either mode, all connected or isolating the branch. More detail here:

https://shop.fxbricks.com/blogs/news/news-for-2022-and-p40-switches

[Jeffinslaw]

Do we have any updates on designs for ballasting the switches?

-Jeff

[zephyr1934]

21 hours ago, Duq said:

In one of the first real-world tests Michael realised this issue and the solution is a jumper underneath that allows you to use the switch in either mode, all connected or isolating the branch. More detail here:

https://shop.fxbricks.com/blogs/news/news-for-2022-and-p40-switches

That is most excellent! He really does deliver on "only the best is good enough" (even if it isn't his motto)

 

[UltraViolet]

  I was chatting with Michael at the Bricks In The Six show last weekend about the switches (and about many of the other coming items he had prototypes for along with him).  It was nice to finally be able to hold one of the switches in my hands and take a real live close up look at them.  I can assure you that branch/route isolation would not be a problem, as even if you didn't take advantage of the incorporated jumper solution, there are numerous screws holding the wiring PCB under the frog and also the cover under the mechanical switch blades, allowing easy access to make your own modifications should you feel the need.  End user maintenance was a key factor in Michael's decision to include the screw-on assemblies in the design, but some users may wish to take advantage of the access for other purposes.  The same approach is being taken with the new motor bogies, when they're eventually available.

  Below is a photo of one of the prototype P40 switches next to a stock LEGO one as installed on Michael's display layout at the Bricks In The Six show.  This one has the earlier revision of the throw rod which will not be the type on the production run.  Note the copious use of his new short straights!