My Fading Wish for LEGO® Mindstorms

[Takeshi Miranda]

Hello World!

Though I am a New User of Eurobricks Forums and a Newcomer to LEGO®, I am still wishing for LEGO® MINDSTORM despite it will never happen during my lifetime. Starting off, I do not want to sound like a beggar (or some other negative adjective), so I have updated my Eurobricks Profile with additional details about my LEGO® avocation.

To summarize matters, I am an old (almost 47 years old) disabled person with ailing health and receiving tiny disability income. My avocations, with some professional experiences, in the fields of computers and electronics, originally started in 1983 (in the USA) when I was 13 years old. That includes my computer programming experiences, which is why I have painful arthritis in my hands today.

My wish for LEGO® MINDSTORMS began in January 2013 during my visit to LEGOLAND Malaysia.(along with my wife and nephew). Due to bad legs and feet, I could not enjoy the themepark. When I saw the MINDSTORMS exhibit, I went to the employee and asked if I can "check it out" as I never experienced MINDSTORMS before. Sadly, the employee refused to allow me to go near it because I am not a teenager! That was the exact moment when my interest in LEGO® vanished!

Since January 2013, my hobby work with digital electronics increased! Using my long-term experience with the C Programming Language, I had learned how to program a variety of microcontrollers, such as Microchip PIC, Atmel AVR (a.k.a. "Arduiino") and TI MSP430. A Good Samaritan in the USA had donated the BeagleBone Black to me and my hobby work in embedded systems deverlopment exploded! I had experienced new skill that I never thought I would ever experience in my lifetime; from blinking LEDs to customizing LCDs to foreign language speech synthesis.

Sadly, from 2014 to 2016, my life had crashed! To make a long story, short, I experienced severe depression from my Filipino dad become a stroke patient and my relatives backstabbing/betraying me, forcing me to purge my technical hobbies off the Internet for good. And then, unfortunately, I have experienced my worst nightmare! (Long Story!) As a result, I was forced to launch my contingency plan which designated LEGO® as an official avocation for me.

The LEGO® MINDSTORMS box cover is the closest I got! In January 2017, when I was visiting in Singapore, I was able to hold the box for the EV3, however the pricetag forced me to put the box to where I picked it up from. In early February 2017, while visiting a LCS in Philippines, I saw an assembled MINDSTORMS product through a glass display case and was able to touch the empty MINDSTORMS box; yes, only the box! So far, as of this writing, I have never experienced what a MINDSTORMS product feels like! In my experiences, money is required before I can even touch a MINDSTORMS product.

Will My LEGO® MINDSTORMS Fading Wish be Granted? I have not yet written to LEGO® HQ in Denmark nor in the USA, asking for a sponsorship; the fact is, I do not know how to ask! I don't know how to look for a Good Samaritan, either. It seems I require money I don't have before someone would consider sending me a MINDSTORMS product. I don't require a brand new product; I would even accept an old, obsolete model. I have no interest in profiteering! I just want to experience programming a MINDSTORMS product and witness the outcome of my created program. As of this writing, my wish for MINDSTORMS is fading away!

Thanks for Reading!

Though I probably will never receive a MINDSTORMS product in my lifetime. Thank you for reading my post. Have a Great Day, Everybody!

 

[aeh5040]

Sadly, LEGO is an expensive hobby.  You might want to check out the used market (e.g. Ebay) for previous versions of Mindstorms, e.g. NXT, which tend to be much cheaper.

[DrJB]

You could also try to find a local Lego FLL event and try to join a team and take part. You may not be able to take the bricks home, but that'll give you a good exposure.

Edited March 1, 2017 by DrJB

[Takeshi Miranda]

On 27/02/2017 at 4:25 PM, aeh5040 said:

Sadly, LEGO is an expensive hobby.  You might want to check out the used market (e.g. Ebay) for previous versions of Mindstorms, e.g. NXT, which tend to be much cheaper.

Thanks for replying. I know LEGO is an expensive hobby. Unfortunately, now that I live in the Philippines, originally from USA, importing goods risk 300% taxation.

On 27/02/2017 at 4:27 PM, DrJB said:

You could also try to find. Lego FLL event and try to join a team and take part. You may not be able to take the bricks home, but that'll give you a good exposure.

Thanks for replying.

Presently, I had no exposure to Mindstorms nor NXT products from LEGO. Before I could seek a job at LEGO for Mindstorm Development (embedded systems development is a specialty of mine), I really wish to experience 30-60 minutes (bare minimum) of operating a Mindstorms product; that will decide whether or not I would be interested in developing firmware for Mindstorm's "brain" brick.

Here in the Philippines, LEGO, as well as, Mindstorms are super expensive. In the local group, I have seen no evidence of anyone possessing a Mindstorm (or NXT) product. In January, I visited Singapore a second time, and saw strangers (people I don't know) working a Mindstorm/NXT product.

 

[allanp]

Have you heard of a website called bricklink? You can buy new and second hand parts individually from modern day to really old stuff from the very early days of Lego. 

The oldest/first programmable mindstorms brick is this one:

https://www.bricklink.com/v2/catalog/catalogitem.page?P=884a#T=S&C=3&O={"color":3}

they are very cheap HOWEVER they were first released in 1998 and were programmed using an IR tower that plugged into your computer via an old school D type connector:

https://www.bricklink.com/v2/catalog/catalogitem.page?P=x87#T=S&C=10&O={"color":10}

And you will need the software, which was originally designed to run on windows 95!

https://www.bricklink.com/search.asp?colorID=0&itemID=44442

But if you can get that older stuff to work that would be the cheapest way. In anycase here's where you will find many different programmable bricks for sale:

https://www.bricklink.com/catalogList.asp?catType=P&catString=463

....and here's where you'll find many pieces of software for programming.

https://www.bricklink.com/browseList.asp?itemType=G&catString=180

Make sure you get the right software for the right brick, that you can run the software on your computer and that you can connect the programmable brick to your computer.

 

Edited March 1, 2017 by allanp

[DrJB]

While I agree with allanp that there are avenues for getting older versions for little $$$, I must caution against that. Typically you'll have a hard time getting the older versions to work because either the software is not available, or does not run on the latest version of windows. Plus, if you really intend to develop the hobby into some sort of profession, you needs the EV3 or possibly the NXT. I would not go RCX because that's too old. Good luck, whichever way you choose to proceed.

[Takeshi Miranda]

7 hours ago, allanp said:

Have you heard of a website called bricklink? You can buy new and second hand parts individually from modern day to really old stuff from the very early days of Lego. 

The oldest/first programmable mindstorms brick is this one:

https://www.bricklink.com/v2/catalog/catalogitem.page?P=884a#T=S&C=3&O={"color":3}

they are very cheap HOWEVER they were first released in 1998 and were programmed using an IR tower that plugged into your computer via an old school D type connector:

https://www.bricklink.com/v2/catalog/catalogitem.page?P=x87#T=S&C=10&O={"color":10}

And you will need the software, which was originally designed to run on windows 95!

https://www.bricklink.com/search.asp?colorID=0&itemID=44442

But if you can get that older stuff to work that would be the cheapest way. In anycase here's where you will find many different programmable bricks for sale:

https://www.bricklink.com/catalogList.asp?catType=P&catString=463

....and here's where you'll find many pieces of software for programming.

https://www.bricklink.com/browseList.asp?itemType=G&catString=180

Make sure you get the right software for the right brick, that you can run the software on your computer and that you can connect the programmable brick to your computer.

 

Thank you for replying. :)

Based on the links you've provided, I have realized that I don't require the "programmable" brick, as I have already built the alternatives via my embedded systems development projects. It seems the LEGO "programmable brick" is only redundant to what I already have built. I could probably "get away" with having a Mindstorms/NXT without the "programmable brick". Thank you for the insights! :)

On the other hand, if I did obtain one of those programmable bricks, I would probably end up "hacking" it... making my own firmware, programming software, etc.

 

3 hours ago, DrJB said:

While I agree with allanp that there are avenues for getting older versions for little $$$, I must caution against that. Typically you'll have a hard time getting the older versions to work because either the software is not available, or does not run on the latest version of windows. Plus, if you really intend to develop the hobby into some sort of profession, you needs the EV3 or possibly the NXT. I would not go RCX because that's too old. Good luck, whichever way you choose to proceed.

Thank you for your reply and input... However, I don't rely of Windows... This coming July 2017, I will be celebrating 20 years of GNU/Linux experiences; I was thinking of working a programmable brick within a Linux environment. 

As for the EV3, I have already found a site that explains how to run Linux on the EV3...

[Takeshi Miranda]

LEGO Mindstorms/NXT without the Programmable Brick?

After reading my previous comments to my original post, I am thinking that I could probably "get away" with a LEGO Mindstorms/NXT product without the programmable brain, but using one of my hand-built microcontroller development boards.

What makes LEGO Mindstorms expensive?

As of this writing, I do not know what exact component makes Mindstorms expensive. When I see the contents of the EV3, I feel it is "overbloated" to what I really want to experience. When I see other people's Mindstorm MOCs in action, I have wondered if I will ever experience that.

Does a Minimal LEGO Mindstorms product exist?

With the hardware I currently own, I would be interested in making a programmable car with front-wheel turning, though I am not sure if that's possible since Mindstorms is more robotics than vehicles. On the other hand, I would be interesting in making a robotic arm with Mindstorms without the programmable brick.

[DrJB]

5 hours ago, Takeshi Miranda said:

What makes LEGO Mindstorms expensive?

As of this writing, I do not know what exact component makes Mindstorms expensive. When I see the contents of the EV3, I feel it is "overbloated" to what I really want to experience. When I see other people's Mindstorm MOCs in action, I have wondered if I will ever experience that.

Very simple: It takes a lot of development to come up with the intelligent brick. But keep in mind that TLG in this business to make money (nothing wrong with that), not to make affordable toys.

[Jeroen Ottens]

8 hours ago, Takeshi Miranda said:

LEGO Mindstorms/NXT without the Programmable Brick?

After reading my previous comments to my original post, I am thinking that I could probably "get away" with a LEGO Mindstorms/NXT product without the programmable brain, but using one of my hand-built microcontroller development boards.

What makes LEGO Mindstorms expensive?

As of this writing, I do not know what exact component makes Mindstorms expensive. When I see the contents of the EV3, I feel it is "overbloated" to what I really want to experience. When I see other people's Mindstorm MOCs in action, I have wondered if I will ever experience that.

Does a Minimal LEGO Mindstorms product exist?

With the hardware I currently own, I would be interested in making a programmable car with front-wheel turning, though I am not sure if that's possible since Mindstorms is more robotics than vehicles. On the other hand, I would be interesting in making a robotic arm with Mindstorms without the programmable brick.

My guess is that a fair amount of the price of Mindstorms goes to the intelligent brick (when bought separately from the LEGO shop it goes for 200 euros). But an equal share will go to the motors and sensors. Sensors go for 35 euros a piece on the official LEGO store, motors are slightly cheaper. Of course you can also work the standard power functions motors, but those do not have servo-control like the Mindstorms motor do have. The one servomotor in the PF spectrum is pricewise equal to the mindstorm ones (in which case I would recommend the Mindstorms ones since they can rotate fully, while the PF one is limited to +/-90 degree rotations)

I do know there are companies selling Mindstorms compatible sensors (typically to add new sensor types), but I don't know the prices. Maybe there are also Mindstorm compatible 3rd party motor suppliers...

[Lakop]

Sounds to me like your advice on programming could be invaluable to some lego mindstorms users and maybe lego itself. Try offering your skills and expertise in exchange for lego and do some videos. Maybe partner up with someone who does lego in your part of the world.

Sorry to hear your story but wish you all the best for the future. By posting on this forum you've taken the first step towards your lego ambition.

H

[Takeshi Miranda]

13 hours ago, DrJB said:

Very simple: It takes a lot of development to come up with the intelligent brick. But keep in mind that TLG in this business to make money (nothing wrong with that), not to make affordable toys.

Ah, OK. Lately, I have been having the strange idea of applying (for a job) at TLG as an embedded systems developer (firmware development) for the EV3 team, such as the people making the circuit board inside the intelligent brick, without knowing what the salaries are like. It's only a strange idea that my wife believes it will never happen.