Forresto

Mr. Oldman...we may have squabbled but I am truly sorry to find you no longer with us. You were a loyal member of the town who deserved better. Despite the obviously horrific manner in which we discovered them, I feel some vindication. As I tried to bring up yesterday there does appear to be a third faction at play here with the other crime family and last nights actions only proves that.

I think Filoni is a great comprehender of the force and the overall lore, and he's a decent storyteller, however he's overly sentimental and attached to his characters. One of the first things I learned in scriptwriting it that audiences hate Deus ex Machina. They want their characters to earn their victories but more so they want to see them overcome challenges. When we see characters overcome great challenges its satisfying because one way or another it makes us feel that we too can overcome great obstacles in our lives. So in that sense the higher the stakes the better. ~ I get not wanting to kill off main characters, that's not the kind of show Rebels is, however then you have to demonstrate your characters working through real problems and to a degree suffering. Avatar the Last Airbender is a very similar minded show with a core group of protagonists. Important characters rarely die but that show puts its characters through all the works that it doesn't matter because life and death of our protagonists is'nt what's at stake, the fate of the world and other people are. And our characters significantly develop from the beginning of the series to the end. I think what Rebels lacks is any framing of what's at stake because we never see either our protagonists suffering at the hands of the Empire or anybody else. Yes we see bullying by soldiers and officers and occasional conscription but nothing more then generic vignettes that is unfortunately universally true of most occupying armies historically. There is no world building, there is no frame of reference to what is so unique about the Empire's evil. Rogue One on the other hand perfectly sets up why we should dislike and even hate the imperials.

I too would love to know how large it is. That's not a bad looking model in the slightest.

Have you? Bane was always OP. Bane, with zero training, uses the force to crush his father's heart and help him in fights. He manipulates the moods of rooms and people he gambled against. He had premonitions and detected when people were going to attack him with weapons. He's a better soldier because he's innately powerful at the force. Rey, with zero training, uses the force to temporarily confuse a stormtrooper and then later Kylo Ren, while the latter is distracted. Otherwise Kylo Ren beats Rey twice in the Force Awakens, and then beats her in their little force pull duel in the Last Jedi. When Kylo isnt being arrogant and cocky, he has won in every single one of their encounter with Rey constantly on the defensive or on the run. Rey accomplishes nothing. Bane is a miner on a harsh world who has to fight for what he gets. Rey, is a scavenger on an even harsher world where everyone is fighting to survive. People living in the wreckage of the battle kill and strip anyone who crashes in their territory, territory Rey is shown to be scavenging in. Do you really think she hasn't grown up fighting her entire life? Its established she can use a staff very effectively through that whole movie which implies lots of experience fighting with it much of her life. So name me one thing Rey actually accomplished? Her victory over Kylo is no less believable then Vader being shot by the Falcon in the trench run, she caught him by surprise with an ability he never knew she had.

The Shape of Water from Guillermo del Toro Absolutely loved the film, maybe one of the best of the year. Like Guillermo del Toro I am in love with the old school monster movies especially the Creature from the Black Lagoon, from which this film clearly took inspiration. I especially love the cold war- early 60s military/government vibe.

Snoke and Kylo Ren are'nt a sith lord and so far Rey isnt a jedi. And the idea that the Last Jedi is uninspired is utterly absurd and odd considering many find the film subversive. What Rian Johnson did with the Last Jedi was ensure that episode 9 has to be entirely original. The Last Jedi isnt a film that breaks the fairy tale of Star Wars, its one that breaks rose tinted goggles to show the beautiful truth of the original fairy tale, elevate it and and catapult it out from the mire of constant recycling of the Original Trilogy that much of the new canon and EU had become. The Last Jedi is the anti The Force Awakens, which sucks if you're a fan of that film but great if you aren't. This whole movie is about balance in all its aspects morally, narratively, and thematically. The force is balance and this is the first Star Wars film to actually encapsulate that in every aspect of the movie. I'll list some examples because i'm not going to write a full essay analyzing the film without having the Blu-Ray to reference. (Part of this is directed at you, part of this is directed at everyone else ) You have the negative side: You get Canto Bight, which is a casino symbolic of Finn, Rose, and Poe's all or nothing gamble to save the Resistance, that wouldn't work if set anywhere else. You get the black and white dress clothes of the manufacturers and arms dealers representing the Yin-Yang. They all support both sides of the war and have always done so throughout the history of the galaxy. They maintain a balance of perpetual warfare from which they profit. Nothing they do is positive to the galaxy, except to line their own pockets. Canto Bight is fundamental to the plot because we get world building, mention of the industrial complex prevalent in all the EU, and a counterpoint to Rey's teachings. Cloud City by comparison is just a cool setting. The neutral side: DJ isnt a bad guy, he serves himself and does enough to keep a balance where he's either ingratiated with either side or useful enough and willing to serve no one wants to outright kill him. This leans either way, with him rescuing Finn and Rose to then selling them out. He was well intended and sincere in both. DJ is a reflection of Finn, (this movie is chock full of reflective images) whose later betrayal is Finn's realization that a pure balance serves nothing but yourself. Then you have the mirror cave on Ach-To, that has debatable meaning. Objectively the underground of the island represents the dark side while the top represents the light, a perfect balance hence why the Jedi probably built their first or one of their first temples there. As for Rey's vision? I believe the infinite Reys and the snapping of the finger represents that all of the force in all its aspects is connected. i'm sure its much deeper but I would need to see the film again. The positive side: Balance is nature and harmony and life and the positive part is pretty much explicitly stated in the film so I won't heavily get into it. Meanwhile you have Luke who finds purpose and ultimately enlightenment because of Rey's intervention, he rediscovers his balance that was thrown off by Ben Solo's betrayal. This movie makes the twin suns symbolic of the force and inner balance then just being a beautiful sunset, how is that not seen as an incredible send off? Its absolutely beautiful. Symmetry: The charge of the ski speeders that caps Poe's story arc is a direct mirror of the bomber run on the FO dreadnaught. Kylo Ren reaches out to Rey earlier without a glove but later when he's fully committed to ruling the First Order he reaches out to her in the same way but with a glove. Kylo Ren is entirely about burning away the old to start things anew while Rey is concerned with honoring the past while forging a new path. The moment Snoke died it was clear Luke had to die, they were counterparts. However where Snoke dies horrifically in a violent manner, Luke transitions peacefully into the force. Luke's line "What did you expect me to do? Take on the entire First Order with a laser sword?" and Rey responding "We could use a legend", which is exactly what the fans wanted and happens at the end which leads me to... Luke and the Myth: Luke takes on the entire First Order with a lightsaber. So what if he isnt actually there, which more to the point is the most Jedi thing he could possibly do and the most badass move of any character in the franchise. Luke bests Kylo Ren and makes him look like an impetuous fool in front of thousands of First Order troops as well as shows Hux (a man who from now on will try to kill him) weakness. Luke undermines the First Order without striking a blow, that's some next level stuff. The force and the Jedi, as they're meant to be, has nothing to do with lightsaber battles or fighting. Its a path to understanding existence no different then Buddhism The Last Jedi isnt a film that breaks the fairy tale of Star Wars, its one that breaks rose tinted goggles to show the beautiful truth of the fairy tale and catapult it forward from the mire of constant retelling. As for the other chief Luke complaint regarding his "assassination" of Ben Solo. I'm going to quote Luke and bring in a well respected and temperate viewer of the Last Jedi in on this one. "I saw darkness. I’d sensed it building in him. I’d seen it in moments during his training. But then I looked inside, and it was beyond what I ever imagined. Snoke had already turned his heart. He would bring destruction, and pain, and death, and the end of everything I love because of what he will become. And for the briefest moment of pure instinct, I thought I could stop it. It passed like a fleeting shadow. And I was left with shame, and with consequence. And the last thing I saw were the eyes of a frightened boy whose master had failed him." Luke Callbacks: You want to talk about the Thrawn Trilogy (of which i'm a massive fan), then you have to include the sheer amount of callbacks it makes to the OT. The books retell entire scenes from the OT numerous times more so then the Last Jedi ever does. As it stands all the callback scenes to prior movies are done in a way that pushes this trilogy's narrative in a different direction, and are unique in their own right. Snoke mirroring Palpatine is meant to pull the audience along who expected that Snoke was Big Papa Palpatine 2.0 so that his death is a shocking moment. Crait isn't simply Hoth 2.0. Its very much its own battle and the fact the Empire developed Walkers such as AT-ATs is indicative that most large scale engagements are similar to Geonosis, Hoth, Crait, and Attollon where an invasion force needs to advance across a plain to confront the enemy. Conclusion: You're probably wondering why I wrote so much and I apologize, its a lot. However as someone who believes the Last Jedi is the best Star Wars film to come out since Empire Strikes Back (Rogue One and Return of the Jedi being close on its heels) i'm going to defend it just as people are going to bash it. If you look at the ratio of people on this forum who hate the film far outweighs those like me and after countless pages of whinging on these forums (not from you) i'm going to write a short essay response. I think I get that right. Rogue One: Phew...that was much more then I ever expected to write

Thrawn better live!

Well that leaves us nearly at a split decision then I suppose. Much like a swing state Tina's vote is all the more significant.

I am tired of voting and people coming out the woodwork to accuse me when they rarely do that to other people. What have I done that is so suspicious? Again what is that actually supposed to mean? You continue to hound me but give no substance to you accusations. If anything happens to me I want ya'll to remember Harry Oldman. Don't equalize either because I didnt start this with him, but I will defend myself. He shares the same role as Jimmy and I had planned to vote for Jimmy. It's not my fault there was a change of hands with the character. [Aren't we supposed to role play like @Actor Builder was here the whole time instead of Steamdemon? It's not my fault that happened so i'm sorry I'm voting for someone who technically just got here, but I suspected Jimmy]

I am not too keen on Mr. Dodson, and when last I checked this late morning/early afternoon he had contributed little and threw us for a loop. So my current vote is: Vote: Anthony Dodson (Actor Builder) [apologies long day at work, not mant chances to get on]

To step in, Harry Oldman has been nothing but negative up to this point and has not generated anything new to the conversation that isnt a direct response to others. Does that make him scummy? I don't know. I don't think so. After all that's pretty gutsy to be negative and combative 24/7 when everyone is looking for a reason to angry mob against someone but then again that tactic could be a ruse. I'm holding back my vote for the moment until I start to see more people talking. Right now a vote still seems like a shot in the dark.

The world is less black and white then it was in the EU and Rian Johnson's trilogy is definitely going to do something entirely different outside of just good and evil. The problem with the frustration is that people can't seem to get into the frame of mind that we're at the beginning of this huge new expanded universe waiting to be cracked open. If we were in the old EU, 2018 is 1993 or 1994. We're in early days and there's still a lot of room for variance, just wait for after episode 9, that's when we'll start to see the floodgates open more on what content we get. As for being tired of it? Sure I can see Star Wars fatigue setting in. I think after the next spinoff after Solo and Episode 9, Disney should hold off on another movie for a few years.

I would like to publicly indicate that no matter how constructive I attempt to be, any time i've asked an entirely legitimate question Oldman has exclaimed otherwise. and if you read what I wrote... I say as much. All we have is speculation! You have targeted me since day one. I'm watching you sir.

Welp, there's no way on earth this works but still might as well try... If you're scum, come on out with your hands in the air and we promise you're death will be quick and painless!

That's not half bad, not half bad at all.

As someone who doesnt even really like Rebels all that much, am I the only one who finds it bizarre TLJ would produce Clone Wars era sets when Rebels isnt even off air yet?

Which begs the question who then? No one has stepped forward and claimed to be, fair enough, that would make them a target and would be a fairly dumb move. If someone did claim to be I'd be more inclined to suspect them to be scum masquerading as friendly. Now since no one has asked, do we think there is a third party killer at work? I imagine the lack of a death last night would rule that out.

Feel better

Which is what is making me uneasy. Last night would have been the perfect night to knock one of us off since we'd have little information to pin point any scum today and retaliate. Any lynch today is still more likely to knock off a townie and a kill last night would've taken care of another of us. This would allow Scum to kill a third of us tonight and we could have been looking at three dead innocents by day three. So either: 1) The scum took a calculated risk to avoid suspicion and foolishly refused to kill last night. 2) The scum attempted to kill last night and were blocked by a protector.

There's so much potential with a new series, especially if animated ala Rebels ending and Filoni working on a new animated project. 1) Old Republic - Set 1,040 years before the Phantom Menace the galaxy is in chaos and turmoil. The Old Republic is crumbling. The Mandalorians are at the height of their power, the Zygerrians and Hutt clans are running rampant, and the Sith-Jedi Wars are about to begin as are the Republic-Mandalorian wars. The potential in the canonical lore of a show in this era is phenomenal with so many important events fundamental to Star Wars's lore that occur in this decade. The Galactic Republic is reorganized and the capital moved to Coruscant, the galactic senate is founded, the Sith are eradicated to only Darth Bane who then starts the rule of two, Mandalore is glassed and made barren and inhospitable. Man Kanata, Revan, and even Snoke could be mentioned or show up. Takodana is the sight of a major battle between the Sith and the Jedi. This decade is the lynchpin in the entire Star Wars lore that connects and effects and touches every story without altering anything. It merely expounds and visualizes upon what we already know. If this isnt the next or at very least a planned animated series, or game series then someone at Lucasfilm needs to be smacked. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Old_Republic 2) Resistance - Set right before the founding of the Resistance as seen in Bloodlines. The First Order is known (hence Leia eventually creating the Resistance to counter them) but still extremely mysterious and ominous, which would make for fantastic overarching bad guys in the background. However our antagonists of the week could be pirate gangs and such since crime is on the rise and in part funded by the Order to sow chaos. This series would be heavily espionage based with lots of subterfuge. Several factions of the Imperial Remanent are still around with swathes of territory, potential antagonists, and the New Republic is in turmoil. Would be the perfect chance to world build for the sequel trilogy. 3) A series between Jakku and the Force Awakens - primary factor here being Mark Hammil is a voice actor and does cartoons. We could potentially get a whole bunch of stories of now only what Luke did during these years but through the voice of Luke himself. We could get all the classic characters from Han to Lando to Leia to Ackbar. Same as #1 we'd also see brilliant opportunities to world build. Star Trek Discovery is in no way like Star Wars, and if you think a few battles do that then you need to go rewatch the later seasons of DS9.

Day two and we're nowhere closer to determining whats what and where anyone's allegiances are. Back to square one...

My content was minimal at best yet you chose to go after me. Once again you obfuscate, exclaiming for others to go after your selected targets. Then when you get called out you make bland all encompassing statements.

If you have something to say about me do it yourself and don't rely on others to do it for you sir. They're attitudes towards me could be considered revenge as well given neither came after me since I originally voted for Mr. Clifford Schauer. Curious Clifford Schauer and Harry Oldman seem to have a little tag team going on, both sowing seeds of confusion, and guarding each others backs.

Well here's a question. What more will we know tomorrow that will substantially add to what we know today? We'll have one less townie, a heck of a lot more suspicion for one another, and we'll be no closer to having any actual clues. Any lynch tomorrow will be made under the same premises as tomorrow. The fact that you're making such a huge deal out of a legitimate question is highly disturbing and...questionable (pun intended ) Mountains out of molehills. One can talk much without saying anything. As for your attitude the gruffness is wearing thin.

Barely given reasons other then to deflect suspicion from himself to anyone else, no matter how shakey the argument. I can't tell if he's scummy or just scared to be voted off. "Why should we do that for you?" My dear sir, you can pay attention to a conversation and still desire to know whether everyone is present and accounted for. I am scummy for asking a question? Talk about jumping the gun. There is typically very little evidence this early on and I cast a vote for someone who was at that moment in no danger of being lynched. Lynching is a legitimate strategy on day one when there is little evidence to determine who is lying or being scummy. Is it always the best strategy? I don't know, all I want to do is live and take out the Bellagios so I can continue to run my illegal business without competition. However your prior responses have contributed us little insight this day other then to sow mistrust and discontent and your poor argument against me, for doing nothing different then others have so far done, has led me to suspect your gruff attitude is nothing more then a veneer. therefore I Unvote Clifford Schauer (LegoMonorailFan) and I Vote Harry Oldman (fhomess)