Deathleech

I would love for Lego to do something like this as it would make the minifigures from buying two different Black Gate sets not near as bad. Of course they never will because they already released the Black Gate once and advertised buying two of them. Plus I don't think they have ever done something like that before, released two identicle sets other than the minifigs? As for the top three sets, mine would have to be: A huge $150+ Minas Tirith Eowyn vs Witch King on Fel Beast (if not in Minas Tirith set) Gondor Soldier/Mordor Orc (new print PLEASE) army builder similar to the Uruk-hai Army set Balrog (if Eowyn/Witch King is in big Minas Tirith set)

I am just talking about really big and important "A list sets". I am sure Lego could squeeze out five or six waves, especially if they start making sets based on more obscure scenes or army builders. If they start revisiting locations and re-doing sets the sky is the limit. For unique sets still not even touched we have Minas Tirith, Osgiliath, Edoras, Lothlorien, Barad-dur, Mount Doom, Gray Havens, and the Prancing Pony. For large unique creatures (that could be brick built and sets on their own) we have the Fel Beast, Treebeard, Balrog, Oliphant, and Watcher in the Water. That right there is 13 possible sets, or at least 2 more waves.

I think the first LotR wave was vastly superior to the Hobbit and second LotR waves. That's not to say they are bad by any means, I just feel the first wave was near perfection. It covered a lot of major scenes, had excellent builds and characters, and had something for everyone. I find the second LotR wave has faults with almost every set, though some are pretty minor. The Wizard Battle is probably the best small set we have seen yet, but the fact Gandalf and Saruman appear exactly the same in the Orthanc set severely lessens it's appeal. Of course for anyone who can't afford Orthanc, it's a great option to get Saruman, but for everyone else it's a pretty worthless set that only offers a unique Palathir print. I would agree The Council of Elrond set is probably the best of the wave. Another Gimli and Frodo kind of sucks (SHOULD OF HAD BOROMIR!), but Arwen and Elrond are great additions. For a smaller set it looks beautiful by itself and offers a lot of new unique pieces. I just wish there would of been more chairs... 3 when there should be over a dozen is kind of lame. At least they could of gave 6? The Black Gates set is pretty cool looking but you really need two to make it look "complete". While I actually like Lego giving options, I really hate the fact it has so many named characters. Over half the minifigures from a second set are worthless (unless you go through the hassle of selling them or using them in a MOC). Lastly there is the Pirate Ship Ambush. I actually really like this set and find nothing terribly wrong with it. Another Corsair or two would of been nice, but all well. The major issue with this set is it is shown in the movies so little and has such an insignificant role that it's hard to warm up to.

The number of sets was smaller, but that's it. The piece count and price for all the wave 2 LotR sets was actually a little higher than the first wave though (if you include Orthanc). Of course this was solely due to the Tower of Orthanc, but ya. Without army builder sets I think Lego might really struggle for material for a fourth wave. If wave 3 has 5-6 sets that leaves only a few sets for wave 4, and most would be like the Pirate Ship Ambush.. fairly minor scenes in the film that are only seen a few minutes. Lothlorien, Rivendell, Edoras, the Prancing Pony, etc. While they are important parts of the story, most of these places are seen less than 10 minute on screen and/or have little to no action happening in them. They are secondary locations compared to Helm's Deep, Minas Tirith, etc. Plus for some of them, like Rivendell, we already got the Council of Elrond so I doubt Lego is going to revisit that particular location. I mean what are they going to make, the room where Frodo recovers from his wounds, or one with a broken Anduril? While highly unlikely, I would love wave 4 to just be full of army builders. At least 4 would be great and could cover all the major factions. Gondor Soldiers/Mordor Orcs, Rohan Soldiers/Uruk-hai, Ithilien Rangers/Haradrim, Elves/Easterling. Of course some of these might be a bit redundant and could be replaced by things like Trolls, Wargs, and Moria Orc if need be.

One question, does Lego actually have the license for the final Hobbit film? It seems everyone just assumes they do. I have no idea what their agreement is or how it works, but what if they only signed a 2 year license agreement since that would have covered the two original movies? Then we wouldn't even see a third Hobbit wave unless they renewed it, much less a third LotR wave. I am hoping that's not the case though and their license was something more like they have the rights to all the new Hobbit films, and getting a third film just extended their license like so many people seem to believe.

If you Bricklink a black hood and head then the Mouth body can be used as a make shift Nazgul.

I feel the same way. While I would love a Minas Tirith set to give me a nice base model and a lot of the required pieces cheap, its not totally necessary. If worse comes to worse I can just Bricklink pieces to make my own Minas Tirith (that is what Lego is all about after all). Creating your own Gondor Soldier prints and helm molds, while not impossible, is significantly harder and is almost impossible to make look "official". If Lego does 5-6 sets for the final LotR wave I think they could easily get all the major scenes out of the way while still devoting 2-3 sets to Minas Tirith. Eowyn vs the Witch King, the Balrog, and 2 Minas Tirith sets leaves room for at least 1-2 more sets. This could be Treebeard or an Oliphant. Treebeard shouldn't be absolutely necessary since the Orthanc Ent does resemble him a bit. Everything else should be covered in a Hobbit wave (Galadriel, Wargs already were, etc.). I would love more Rohan Soldiers or a prologue set but I don't know how likely they are with all the other more important content Lego needs to get to still. The above sets are the absolute must haves and without them i would be severely disappointed with the LotR Lego offering. Anything else would just be icing on the cake IMO.

I wouldn't mind seeing a large-ish $160 Minas Tirith and then a $30 army builder add on like the Uruk-hai Army set. The Minas Tirith/Gondor version could have one curved wall section, a trebuchet, and come with 4 orcs (or 2-3 and a Mountain Troll) and 2-3 Gondor Soldiers. This way you could really expand the levels of Minas Tirith out more if the main set was just the middle of each city level such as the gates and top courtyard with white tree. 4-6 Mordor Orc/Gondor Soldier Army builder sets would be all you really need I imagine to make the set look big. That's $160 for the main set and then another 120-160 for the army builders putting the total at $320... Right where most feel a USC Minas Tirith should be at.

There were several reports claiming the theme wasnt doing so hot when it was first released, but I don't think a single one of them had any hard evidence, it was just random people hearing things from "friends who worked for Lego". The CEO mentioned the line was doing really well in interview, but other than that we haven't really heard much of anything. I do know in stores I don't see any of the older LotR waves where as I was seeing other themes like Dino and Monster Fighter sets easily a year later clogging shelves. As of right now all signs seem to point to AT LEAST one more year of LotR sets. The absence of major characters like Faramir and Eowyn, and even whole factions like Gondor lead me to believe Lego is holding some stuff back for a future wave. Otherwise why didnt they include a fifth set this year that had Faramir or Eowyn and a Gondor setting?

That's waaaay to many good guys being rehashed for a Minas Tirtih set. Definitely nix Aragorn and Eomer imo, as well as one (or both?) Rohan Soldiers. Add a few more Orcs and Fountain Guards instead. Other than that it looks pretty good. I do have one question. People keep saying if Lego does 3 separate Minas Tirith sets that combine then that leaves less room in the (final?) wave for other scenes and sets. Don't you think a single huge $200-300 Minas Tirith is going to cut into other set production too though? It's not like they have 5 sets they can make and the price point of each is irrelevant. Just look at Orthanc, it took three designers to create and the second wave was really small, most likely because of this? Plus going the one huge set route doesn't leave options for people to pick up one or two sets and skip one or two, they can't pick or choose. It's all or nothing and I assume you lose out on a lot of sales (especially among children I imagine) that can't afford a $300 set.

True, and for some of the super hero themes like Iron Man 3 and Superman they didn't make a big set near the $100 mark. However, for the past three LotR/Hobbit waves we have had at least 1 set at or above the $100 mark.

The first LotR wave cost $373 total, the second wave (if you include Orthanc) cost $400. So, while the first wave did have more sets the second LotR set was actually more expensive and contained more pieces. What I'm surprised about is the Hobbit list didn't have the biggest set OR the smallest set listed. It seems unlikely an exclusive would be for either of those slots since so far they were right in the middle being the $40 set each time (unless you count Orthanc, then the biggest set might be an exclusive/D2C). Doing two big $100+ exclusives in a row seems unlikely for Lego, but having the biggest set in a wave only being $69.99 seems really unlikely too.

At this point we don't really know what Lego's reason is for not making LotR battle packs. It could be more due to their licensing agreement than anything. It seems like they WANT to make them what with the Uruk-hai Army and Mirkwood Elf Army sets, but they need to include a lot more bricks than a standard battle pack would have. As for your sentiment, I agree battle packs would help most bigger set sales than hurt them, but I don't know if that would always the case. I imagine the undead in the Pirate Ship Ambush are a pretty big selling point of the set, and without them the set would sell significantly less. Then again Lego could still keep sets like the Pirate Ship Ambush appealing by including unique undead soldier prints and different variations in a battle pack. Or maybe the King and Corsair are unique enough to sell the ship if they are exclusive to that set? Of course you also get the model, which if cool enough should help sell the set as well. For sets like the Black Gate I am pretty sure the Mordor Orcs aren't really helping sell the set at all so Orc battle packs would be fine at this point I imagine. I do think Lego needs to start kicking the battle pack production up with their LotR line though. The smallest sets seem to be a waste so far and are always massed and sitting on shelves around me at retailers. They also seem to be the least favorite of everyone for every wave thus far released. Why not change that small $12.99 set into a similarly priced battle pack or two? I am sure they would FLY off shelves. LotR has so many huge army battles and didfferent factions it just screams to have battle packs made. Imagine all the possibilities... Gondor Soldiers, Rohan Soldiers, Haradrim, Mordor Orcs, Moria Orcs, Elves, Easterling, Gondor Rangers, Undead Soldiers, Wild Men, Trolls, etc. And this isn't even getting into the sub classes like the regular Gondor Soldiers and the Fountain Guards.

I would gladly buy a Grey Havens set as long as we got Minas Tirith, Gondor Soldiers, an Oliphant with Haradrim, the Balrog, Treebeard, Faramir, Eowyn, Sauron, and the Witch King on Fel Beast in sets all first :) It would make the perfect end to the line.

Ya, I think Harry Potter is a good comparison for LotR/Hobbit. It should definetly get more sets than properties like the Lone Ranger or Indian Jones, but thinking it will get any where near as many as The Star Wars theme is probably wishful thinking. It is somewhere in between all these licenses.

I hope we get some new orcs/goblins in the set as well. I am really getting sick of the Mordor Orcs we have seen re-used in what, 5 sets now? At least give us a variation or two, SOMETHING besides just throwing Uruk-hai armor on them.

Was he referring to the Lego line when he said megahits though, or the films?

While Sauron is definetly a main antagonist, he never actually makes an appearance. The only time we see him in physical form is during the prologue. I imagine this makes it difficult for Lego to fit him into a set. As for the Witch King, technically we could have already got him with the Attack on Weathertop set, just not with his distinguishing crown. I would say the Witch King is much less important just based on the movies, he is only seen briefly before and during the Battle of Pelennor Fields then he kicks the bucket. He is shown as a normal Nazgul much more and we already got two Nazgul. Also, as others have mentioned, The Lord of the Rings line is (hopefully) still going so we may still see Sauron or the Witch King. Lego is bouncing all around with that license making sets from all three films every wave. They have a lot to try and cover. With the Hobbit it is much more linear and they seem to be releasing waves of sets that relate to and coincide with the movie release.

I really can't see Lego skipping out on doing Smaug. He is hands down the main villain in the book and appears to be just as important in the films. Plus, kids love dragons so it's a win win if they make a set with him in it. I imagine he would have a better chance of getting made than Thranduil, Beorn, Galadriel, Radagast, and the Necromancer... COMBINED. Then again who knows with Lego, we got Arwen before Faramir and Eowyn and she has such a minor role in the film. Basically she just saves Frodo from the Ringwraiths and shows up at the end of the trilogy to marry Aragorn. Eowyn on the other hand is shown throughout the entire second film and has a pivotal role at the Battle of Pelennor Fields when she slays the Witch King.

I think it's just the low quality render from the game that is making the Easterling look bad. I am sure if Lego made it exactly like it appeared in game, it would look significantly better since the armor would not look as muddy in the actual plastic.

Now that the second LotR wave sets have been out for awhile it got me thinking, what does everyone else think is the best set of the bunch this time around? How does this wave compare to the first LotR wave and the Hobbit wave so far? Personally I am torn. I generally like the bigger sets best because I feel they offer more (and the price reflects it ), but I feel like the smaller sets actually offer a lot this time around too. I definitely liked the first LotR wave the best though, mainly because of Helm's Deep and the accompanying army/wall builder with the Uruk-hai Army. Please note Tower of Orthanc is not on this list for two reasons. First off it seemed like it would hands down be the winner. Second I don't think it is technically part of wave two since it doesn't share the same LotR logo in the top right? So, what is YOUR Favorite?

I think people get a bit confused because this thread is titled "LotR and Hobbit 2013". The next Hobbit wave is technically supposed to be released in December 2013 so it could fit here according to the title. The other thread is titled "Future LotR Sets" with no mention of the Hobbit whatsoever in the title. I can only assume that is why people are discussing the upcoming Hobbit sets here.

As a kid pop up books use to be my favorite so this holds a special place in my heart. I have to agree with others in saying this idea is really unique and made all the better by how well you executed it with all the details. From the crest on the front of the book that originally drew me in, down to the book opening and the Lego MOC polling up, it was all beyond cool!

About the same chances of seeing Thranduil or Beorn ;)

A brick built Smaug doesn't HAVE to be crazy expensive. Lego could, after all, make Smaug the set like they did with Shelob. Just have a brick built Smaug and several minifigures for under $100 and you have a nice set. Of course if you add in Erebor or Lake Town, even parts, that could really start hiking the price up. I am usually a big fan of the molded creatures because I don't think square bricks generally create very good looking organic creatures, but a Smaug mold would be massive and seems really unlikely in my mind. I am sure Lego will shrink him down no matter what, but a brick built one could give us a really nice big Smaug for around 100 bucks.