Deathleech

Ya, the little point on the back of the capes is annoying with long hairs figs because it gets smushed down and crumples the cape. I just don't even use the capes most the time on these figures.

Here is another source with similar numbers listed for the book version. This one doesn't list them so definitively though. I don't recall ever seeing exact numbers in the book except on rare occasion. Usually you have to do the math to figure it out, for example 2000 Rohan died, 4000 marched to Black Gates.. there must have been 6000 total (even though I believe this is one occasion the book specifically states there were over 6000 Rohirrim to begin with at Pelennor Fields). According to the book there were anywhere from 6,000-10,000 Gondor Soldiers when all said and done In the book there were significantly less orcs at the Battle of Pelennor Fields. It's true there were only 80,000 compared to the 200,000 in the film, but keep in mind at the Black Gates there were another 60-80k orcs in the book where as in the film there were only 10,000. Overall the numbers for the evil forces were pretty similar in both the book and film when all said and done (around 140-160k total in the book vs 210k or so in the film). The only big difference overall is the amount of Gondor Soldiers. In the book there are several thousand more at both battles than in the film. Really the exact numbers are irrelevant though. In all cases the evil forces out number the good almost 10 to 1 (funny how this is the case with almost all the big LotR battles huh?). If Lego were to do a Gondor Soldier army builder similar to the Mirkwood Elf and Uruk-hai ones then they really shouldn't include more than 2 Gondor Soldiers and a named character. I dunno about others, but I like to keep my armies similar in number to the movie counterparts (hence why I hate the MEA composition of 3 elves and only 2 orcs). If they had 3 Gondor Soldiers and 3 Orcs I would buy significantly less of the sets and just BL all the extra orcs for cheap.

Most of the polybags were exclusives and/or had limited availability in certain areas. For instance the Uruk-hai polybag was widely available in the U.K. through the Sun newspaper promotion but here in the U.S. it's release was spotty at best. Originally it was only sold at Lego Discovery Centers and then several months later it was at 5 Below stores. Likewise the Mirkwood elf polybag was first available in extremely limited quantities at TRU here in the U.S. (each store seemed to have less than 20 total), then it was available only with $20 or $25+ Lego Hobbit purchase (forget the exact number). It was never available in many other countries though. I don't think Lego offered the polybags to be big sellers and make them lots of money, I think they were more or less just incentives to buy more regular sets. I also doubt we will get any for the Hobbit this year seeing as we didn't for the LotR wave.

Ya I wasn't counting named characters, just generic army builder types.

Ya, I forgot the one from Orthanc and the Orc Forge. Orc Forge only has 1 though, not two. It has two sets of White Hand armor but only a single Uruk-hai. I also said excluding polybags since the Uruk-hai one wasn't widely available in a lot of areas. That puts the total at 10 (11 if you DO include the poly).

I specifically stated in the film. As you can see here, there were only 2300 Gondor Soldiers TOTAL at the Battle of Pelennor Fields in the film. The book is different (and more believable imo) with the numbers. In the book there were about 9000 Gondor Soldiers total by the end of the battle. In the film there were 200,000 orcs, plus almost 30,000 Haradrim, Easterlings, etc. There were only 8,300 Gondor/Rohan Soldiers. In the book it's a little over 100,000 forces of evil vs about 15,000 forces of good. This is probably a big reason PJ decided to have the Undead come and magically win the battle for the good guys in the film. Regardless which source you look at though, both have the evil forces VASTLY outnumbering the good guys. That is why I think if Lego does a Gondor Army builder, the Gondor Soldiers in it should be kept to a minimum. If it has 6 minifigures, put 3 max, and preferably 2 as Gondor Soldiers. Right now if you add up all the LotR sets (excluding the Hobbit and polybags) we only have 7 Mordor Orcs, 8 Uruk-hai, and 2 Moria Orcs. That's barely enough to face the 9 characters from the Fellowship and we need a proper orc army builder just as much as anything else right now if you want to stay remotely close to movie or book numbers. Yup, the list they have is IDENTICAL to what BlackTiger posted. They even say they got it from him on Eurobricks and say they are skeptical if it's real.

Just based on the minifigure count, these all seem right. Shelob was $20 and had 3 minifigures like Dol Guldur Ambush. Uruk-hai Army is a quasi army builder so it has more minifigures than a normal set, plus a molded creature, and was $30 for 6 (exact same configuration as MEA). Laketown Chase has 5 minifigures like Warg Attack and that was $50 (this price was confirmed?). Dol Guldur Battle has 6 minifigures like an Unexpected Gathering and that set was also $70.

Well if it included Faramir that would be 3 good guys (Gondor Soldiers) and 3 bad (Orcs, not including the Mountain Troll). I dunno how likely Lego is to include a large molded creature in an army builder like the Mountain Troll, opting for a horse instead seems more likely. At any rate 2 Gondor Soldiers still seems like a good number considering we only got one Rohan Soldier in the Uruk-hai Army. Also consider (in the film) there were 200,000 orcs at the Battle of Pelennor Field and only like 2300 Gondor Soldiers. I would feel weird getting an army builder with way more Gondor Soldiers because of this. We have gotten several sets with Mordor Orcs already, but none have been army builders in the slightest so even if you bought all of them up to this point you are only going to have 10-20 Orcs tops before the army builder/third wave is released. I think Mount Doom, Amon Hen, the Watcher in the Water, the Prancing Pony (done similar to Market Village), and Osgiliath would all make for a great fourth wave if Lego got around to them. They aren't as important as the other sets but still major scenes in the film.

Ya, I would prefer to see her in a Hobbit set since she seems to have much more presence in those films.

Not really considering in the book there are about 1,000 elves, 500 Iron Hill Dwarves, and 200-300 Laketown Men. There are over 6,000 goblins.. over triple the amount of elves, dwarves, and humans COMBINED! We already are getting 3 Mirkwood Elves in the MEA set so I think a Bo5A builder should definitely have at least 2 orcs, if not 3. Ideally it could have 1 armored elf, 1 Iron Hills Dwarf, 1 man of Laketown, 2 Orcs, and Dain who could look generic enough to serve as a second Iron Hill grunt. As for if they were actually orcs or goblins, I don't recall. I know at that point Tolkien often inerchanged the two words so they could all be orcs or goblins or a mix. It just depends what PJ ends up doing. I did forget about the bats though, an army builder should have some bats in it if it's based on the Bo5A.

My dream wave 3 LotR sets would look something like this: $19.99 - Treebeard Encounter 3 Minifigures - Merry, Pippin, and Grishnak This set would be a brick built Treebeard with another smaller brick built tree. Pretty self explanatory. $29.99 - Gondor Soldier Army 5-6 Minifigures - 2 Gondor Soldiers, 3 Mordor Orcs (new armor and prints), 1 Mountain Troll, (Faramir in Ranger gear if a named character is absolutely necessary). This would have a white wall piece that could connect to the big Minas Tirith set and be used to expand that set. The wall would be about the same size as the Uruk-hai Army wall piece. It would have a break away section. The set would also include an orc catapult, or more preferably one of those towers on wheels they push up to the wall to unload Orcs (can't recall the name atm). There is one less minifigure in this set because I figure the Troll would take up the spot of a minifigure AND a horse/Warg. $39.99 - Bridge of Khazad-dûm 4 Minifigures - Gandalf the Gray, 2 Moria Orcs with new helm armor, Boromir The main brick built piece of this set would obviously be the Balrog, who would be about a time and a half to twice the size of Shelob. It would also include the Khazad-dum bridge with a few stairs on each side. The Balrog would have an arm that swings up and down to imitate his whipping action. The bridge itself would break away in the center, as would the stairs on either side. Boromir isn't necessary, but I figure we prolly won't get many other chances to see him again so might as well throw him in here. $49.99 - Oliphant Stampede 5 Minifigures - Legolas, 2 Haradrim, 1 Haradrim Chieftain, 1 Rohan Soldier on black horse The main feature of this set would be the large molded Oliphant. It would be slightly bigger than the old molded elephant/triceratops Lego has used and would have red markings like it appears in the video game. The brick built component of this set would be the tent/stand on the back of the Oliphant. The play feature would be the platform popping off (simulating Legolas cutting the cords and making it slide off). While I would ideally like to include 2 Easterlings in this set and have it be a more expensive army builder, I don't see Lego ever including them since they were never actually shown during the Pelennor Fields battle in the movie. $79.99 - Witch King Battle 6 Minifigures - Merry in Rohan attire, Eowyn, Witch King, Theoden, Gothmog, Rohan Soldier (or Orc instead), molded Fel Beast seen in game Since Minas Tirith is so big, the Fel Beast will be molded, and there is really nothing of substance to build from Pelennor Fields, they could use this set to include the bottom wall of Minas Tirith with the gate section. If there is room, they could also possibly include a brick built Grond, but that is only if pieces permit (which I don't think they would if the wall/gate was about the size of 3 Helm's Deep Lego walls put together). $149.99-199.99 - Minas Tirith 11-12 Minifigures - Pippin in Gondor attire, 2 White Tree Fountain Guards, 2 Gondor Soldiers, Denethor, Gandalf the White with Shadowfax, 3 Orcs, Nazgul, molded Fel Beast, (Faramir if not included in the Gondor Soldier Army set) Since this is already a fairly large wave with a lot of mid-higher end priced sets, this could conceivably be a D2C exclusive and priced even a little higher with more build. The build would the second level of the city and the top courtyard with a small Citadel (think the hall in the Lego Helm's Deep). The second level would only have a small building or two and a wall while the centerpiece would be the top level. Besides the Citadel it would also have the White Tree in the middle and the point at the end with a flip function to launch Denethor to his death There would also be 2-3 sections of the wall and building that could explode and 2 trebuchets that you could place randomly at different points on the wall. I would include a Nazgul and Fel Beast because I don't concievably see people buying multiples of the Witch King Battle but people will want at least a few Fel Beasts as seen in the film. Plus it gives you the ability to recreate the Gandalf/Nazgul encounter (even though this would be a regular Nazgul when it was technically the Witch King.. possibly include two heads?). I tried to keep these sets as believable as possible with how Lego would actually create them. If we got a third wave like THIs I could die a happy person. I know some scenes were still missed like the Watcher in the Water, Amon Hen, etc., but I think this coveres all the main scenes and factions and at the same time offers some really great playable sets kids would eat up. The minifigure selection is nice with at least 1-2 exclusive chartacters per set.

If Lego does decide to do an army builder for the BoFA (which they would be silly not to do), I wonder what it will include? There are several factions they need to cover and I can't see them doing more than a single $30 army builder in a wave. They could probably do 1 elf in armor, 1 Iron Hill dwarf, 1 Laketown soldier, 2 orcs, and maybe an eagle (A Warg would be silly considering we already have 2 sets with them and ones in the upcoming army builder)? That would still leave room for one named character in the set which Lego seems to make mandatory.

I think most people unfamiliar with LotR or the Hobbit would have to look pretty close to even realize they are elves in the set. I mean with the hooded elven warriors there is nothing to differentiate them from humans. They could just as easily be seen as some sort of rangers or woodsmen. I might be bias here because I already have a ton of the Mirkwood Elf polybags from last year, but the elves in the MEA set just look boring to me. An elf in shiny gold or silver armor with a new helm and new shield mold would be INFINITELY more interesting to me than the boring green hood we have already seen, or the same elf hair/ears we have gotten dozens of times already. Well Lego COULD have made 1 or 2 of the elves in armor and then left the others in the leather? That way they appeal to both groups at the same time? I am sure some people do want the traditional elves as you say, but I am sure an elf in bright shiny armor would be absolutely gorgeous and appeal to all sorts of people too, not just the "armored elf fan boys". The armor could be used in tons of MOCs and for normal human soldiers and the elves would look fantastic in their own right. This is what's most important above all else; how the actual scene plays out. Both Alcarin and myself linked pics that appear to be the elves at their outpost. In both screenshots they look to be in their armor, not the leather. Now we could be totally wrong and this might not be them at the outpost Lego is depicting at all. However, if it IS them at the outpost then Lego should of went with the armored versions. It really doesn't matter if Tolkien never described elves wearing armor once and were always in brown loin clothes, what matters is how they appear in the film since that is what the set is based on and licensed from.

Actually there has been talk about the line ending for quite awhile now. I think claims were first made as soon as a few months after the initial LotR wave was released. Some people said the sets were selling poorly. Then we got the Hobbit wave with confirmation of a second summer LotR wave and that shut everyone up for awhile. More recently the rumors of poor sales and the line ending have started surfacing again. Ironic how these rumors always start to come in hot and heavy when there is no other news or things are slow eh?

Oh I totally agree with you, don't get me wrong. It makes perfect sense for Lego to release at least one more wave that is heavily Gondor themed, much like the first was heavily Rohan themed. It's just with Lego you never know. I mean did it make sense for them to release the Orc Forge in the first wave or the Pirate Ship Ambush in the second wave? Does it make sense we got 2 different Goblin Town goblin prints and 2 different Undead Soldier prints when those figures might only eve be used in one set? Yet the Mordor Orc has appeared in over 4 different sets yet he has had the same print every single time. Why would Arwen be in a set before Eowyn or Faramir? With Lego you never know. With that being said I do find it REALLY hard to believe they would totally leave out such a big faction like Gondor, especially with that being the number one most wanted set among the majority of fans right now. I'm just saying their absence doesn't necessarily mean a third wave with them is a sure thing.

I disagree. I think Lego could of taken a few easy steps to make fans much more happy with these sets... Like I said before, they could of added some details to the black parts of the minifigure instead of making him all a solid black there. Ripples and folds in his clothing, dirt.. any details would of made him look better. I agree to some extent though, there doesn't seem like there could be THAT much done with the Necromancer based on his movie appearance thus far. Except Lego's version resembles the movie version very little. It appears they tried to make the courtyard but totally neglected the overall look of the place. It ended up looking like a boring gray wall. You can even see parts of the otherside which have no detail at all in the smaller pictures on the back. I think adding a few big towers or higher peaks could of done TONS to make the structure more closely resemble Dol Guldur from the outside. Personally I would of preferred Lego made it a $100 set and the walls slightly smaller (like 1 or 2 bricks shorter), more peaks/point, and fully enclose (but still unhook into a long wall). The wave only have 4 sets and the most expensive is only $70 so they easily could of bumped the price and pieces of DGB up no problem. Right now it just isn't very distinguishable, it looks like a gray wall with a statue in the middle. Even Mines of Moria looks something like it's movie counter part, and that set was based on a single square-ish room contained deep inside a mountain labyrinth. Helm's Deep, Bag End, Weathertop, etc. are perfect examples of scaled down Lego models that still are instantly recognizable. Like I said before though, how many people who have seen the movie will actually recognize DGB as Dol Guldur if you just set the bricks put together in front of them? Ya, except the scene seems to be based on this part of the movie, which clearly shows the elves in their armor. Plus we already got the elf polybag last year with the hooded elf so it makes the MEA ones all the less appealing. Sure the poly wasn't widely available, but why did Lego need to include not one, not two, but THREE elves in the leather armor? Surely they could of done just 1 or even 2 and had one in armor since they appear that way at some point in the film? I do think some of the complaining is unwarranted and I usually stick up for Lego's LotR/Hobbit sets (loved Mines of Moria despite all the criticism it got). Beorn's hair is in no way Lego's fault. At the same time though, they could of used the tall "Woody" legs to make him appear bigger than normal as he does in the film. I think the fact we got so many new characters and army builder types, as well as the brown Warg (even if I would of prefered a lighter brown or tan) is fantastic!

A Bo5A set is going to have to exclude some things. You have to figure at least 2-3 slots will be taken up by named characters. I would prefer to get Iron Hill Dwarves, armored Mirkwood Elves, Men of Laketown, and maybe some more Orcs for the rest of the minifigures in a Bo5A set. Especially the former since we havn't seen them at all yet (other than the single human guard in Laketown Chase). Since we already have two sets with Wargs (one of which is an army builder) I find it hard to believe we will get many more sets with them. Who knows though, they might make a big Bo5A set and then an army builder add on and include all 5 factions and creatures.

It really depends how things are set up. Lego might not want to pay to renew the license for just one more year if it is going to cost them too much or the theme is not doing as well as the expected. Or they might opt to only renew the Hobbit and NOT the LotR license. It all depends on a number of things which we as consumers know nothing about the specifics.

But we don't know if they actually do still hold the license. Remember the Hobbit was originally planned as just two films, not three. It's entirely possible Lego only signed up for a 2 year license with LotR/Hobbit. Like others I think the complete and utter lack of any Gondor related stuff surely points to a third wave, but you never know with Lego. They do some pretty weird stuff people would never expect (Pirate Ship Ambush anyone?).

Or even 1 or 2 armored elves. I agree that Beorn isn't that bad, if anyone is to blame for the hair it's Peter Jackson. Lego just copied him, they can't make their own version from the book since their license is with the movie. Lego's only fault with him was not using the longer legs to give him more height, but that doesn't seem to be the main issue most people have with Beorn...

If sales are low enough Lego could easily axe the line, no matter what their original plans were. I think that's what everyone is worried about. However, there is little to no factual evidence that the line is doing poorly, just a random report pops up every so often where someone says it's not selling too well at their own local store. That's much to an isolated incidence to give any idea how the line is doing overall (it's in several other countries too don't forget). I am not sure how well Lego was planning on the line to sell considering for LotR they gave it next to no advertisement and it's from movies over 10 years old with no other current media entertainment besides the Hobbit films. It's also a little more adult themed than what Lego usually makes. I know the CEO was asked how license themes were selling last year and he said they were selling well and specifically mentioned LotR. I dunno what Lego's expectations vs actual sales were, I wish we could get some data to put people's active imaginations to rest (either with the line ending soon or not). If we see an advertisement in the upcoming Hobbit instruction booklets for a 2014 LotR wave I think it's pretty much a guarantee we will get at least a third wave. If there is no mention I would be a little worried (though that doesn't necessarily mean there won't be one, just the chances are much less likely).

The Dol Guldur Ambush isn't really great for multiple purchases though, even if it didn't have Beorn and had 2 generic orcs and 1 generic dwarf/elf/human instead. $20 for 3 minifigures is pretty expensive, most army builders are high on minifigures for their price point but DGA definitely isn't. I mean if you really want the bricks then it might be decent but speaking strictly of the minifigures there are much better options. For $10 more you can get a cool new brown Warg and 3 generic elves plus a named character. If you really want the orc hair/ear piece then Dol Guldur Ambush is probably the only way to go, but even still I suspect the orcs will be pretty cheap on BL after a few months. You will prolly be able to get the ear/hair versions for around $4-4.50 and the non-hair/ear ones for $3 initially, then prices for both will drop to $3 and under after several months. The Mordor Orc with hair was like $5-6 originally and it was ONLY available in $40+ sets and one in each set at that. These orcs will be in every set in doubles and the DGA is only $20 so I assume the BL price per orc will be significantly lower.

I dunno, this sounds a little iffy to me. I am always skeptical of posters with little or no credibility just coming out and claiming they have all this insider info. It's too easy for people to make up stuff and then make a new account and post with little to no repercussion. The sets also seem to be pretty standard stuff.. you know, stuff everyone wants and expects. With all the LotR and Hobbit waves thus far we get at least 1 or 2 curve balls per wave no one was expecting to be made into sets... Orc Forge, Pirate Ship Ambush, etc. While the wave sounds like it could be great (still no Balrog or Mumakil though, and Galadrial seems like a wasted set when they could include her more easily in a Hobbit set), until there is more proof or info I am not getting my hopes up.

Well after finally seeing some better quality pics I am liking this wave a bit more. The orcs actually look pretty good and do in fact have all new pieces except the hair/ear piece, but I guess it's technically new since it looks like it's a different color? I know it probably sounds like Lego can't win with me, but I actually wished/hope the orcs are the same color as the Mordor Orcs and Goblin King goblins as that would allow more mixing and matching of pieces for variety. Right now it's just a shoulder armor and the hair/ear to differentiate the 6 Gundabad Orcs we have. All well, I guess I shouldn't complain too much as the orcs do look nice even if they are probably going to be re-used a ton like the Mordor ones have been. As for the rest of the minifigures I am really a fan of Beorn, Radagast, and the Thranduil minifigures, I think they look perfect. Beorn's hair looks pretty tall, it's no Woody legs height booster, but at least it's something I guess? Azog looks fine in tan imo, I just wish his "claw" hand was curved more so it could actually hold things. Seems like a silly oversight? The Necromancer looks kind of plain and blah. He looks like a radioactive monkey. If that's how he looks in the films I guess there isn't much Lego could do, but I think the problem is his black parts are all solid black. Lego could of added some ripples or fold to give it some dimension and detail? All well. The more I look at it, the less I actually like the Mirkwood Elf Army set. To me, the shining star of the set is the brown Warg though I wish it was a lighter tan to better resemble the LotR Wargs. I think it would look more pleasing overall then, especially with a dark brown mane. All well. With the elves, Thranduil is nice to get in a set but in an army builder is hard to do much with at all. He comes with the very distinct hair and crown so it's not like Eomer where you can easily blend him with the other soldiers and pass him off as a no name grunt. Had Lego included another hood or some sort of battle helm this problem would of easily been solved. As I mentioned before, I also feel like there are too many elves in the set and NONE in armor is a huge disappointment. If they were absolutely dead set on releasing 3 elven grunts, why not do more variety and have 2 in armor and one in leather? That way the set has infinitely more appeal. Ideally I would of liked to see Thranduil (with an extra hood or battle helm head piece on top of his crown hair), 1 fully decked out armored elf (Thranduil could serve as a second with his alt head gear), 1 archer with hood or hair/ears, 3 Gundabad Orcs (2 with hair/ears), and finally the lighter brown Warg. This would of made the set PERFECT for me! Also it seems weird this set doesn't "attach" to DGB but DGA does? I guess you just can attach the MAE sets to each other and make an outpost or something indistinct? Lastly there is the set builds themselves. I feel like as has been the case with the past few LotR/Hobbit waves (except on rare occasion.. Bag End, Helm's Deep, etc.), the sets main selling feature is definitely the minifigures and NOT the actual build. This is a shame. I still feel like Dol Guldur Battle is a really poor representation of Dul Guldur. If you put the set in front of someone with no minifigures and told them it was from the Tolkien universe, how many would actually identify it as DG (even after seeing AUJ/DoS)? With Mines of Moria I can at least cut Lego some slack as that was a small room under a mountain in a huge labyrinth, it would be hard if not impossible to do the set justice. DG they could of easily made more recognizable though. All well. Oh, and at this point I would guess Bolg has been completely removed from the film. Azog seems to of totally filled his role so I see no need for Bolg (unless Azog dies at the end of DoS or the beginning of TaBA). The more I think about it I probably will only end up buying like 5 MEA sets and just BL all the extra Warg and Orcs I want. I would rather take my chances for a Bot5A set and get some armored elves. All the rest will be single purchases.

Where did you see prelim pics for the new sets? To me half the pieces on the orcs still look the same from what I can make out in the small, blurry pics. It looks like they have new head and torso prints, but the old legs and hair/ear piece (when used). If that is the case it's nice we got at least SOME new parts, but for minifigures appearing in 3 sets in a single wave and appearing 7 times I think they should be totally new? I just don't understand why Lego can do totally new hair pieces for minifigures only appearing in one set, or put two totally different soldier types in one set, but when it comes to some figs like the Orcs they re-use the exact same orc in three, four, or even more sets. I'm not wanting a brand new orc in every set, but having at least 2 print variants of each type would be awesome, especially in a wave like the second Hobbit one where they appear in 3 sets yet seemingly are only "half" new, and even of the new pieces all have the same new head/chest print. As for the elves, I am really feeling meh about them. To me elves are a race that was always very few in numbers compared to orcs or even humans. If I get the 10 Mirkwood Elf Army sets I want, I am gonna have 30 elf grunts, plus the 20 from the polybags I bought last year. That's as many as I currently have Rohan Soldiers! Like with the Mirkwood Elf polybag last year, I am not a fan of the hood because it makes it pretty much impossible to identify the figs as elves vs regular humans. I wish we would of at least got 2 hair and ear pieces instead of just 1. I probably will end up using my old Mirkwood Elves from the polybag as Ithilien Rangers or something since they look close enough. Lastly I think Dol Guldur should have a shape more resembling what we see in the movie. Dol Guldur looks like ruins with a bunch of jutting towers and structures. Instead of that the Lego set looks like a tall wall with a single tower. Overall I think it's a pretty good wave and these are just small nit picks. I think it could have been amazing though if we got 2 elves in armor and distinct helms like seen in the trailer, Dol Guldur had a few more towers or tall structures, and the orcs were a little more varied with totally new pieces. That would of made the wave go from like a 7 or 8 to a 10 for me.