SteveB

Just looking at the coaches, I really like that rounded look and the color scheme. It's too bad there is a flow pattern in the pearlescent gray. :-( Steve

HI All, I just wanted to send an update and let everyone know that I just had a great conversation with Mike and Eric from ME Models and we are going to work together on this solution. It's not my place to comment on the current ME Models Kickstarter project, Mike says he will follow-up on this thread. Mike and I are just happy that we had a good first call and that this metal track concept may help further the LEGO train hobby; which is both our goal. And thanks Fred for the kind review! Thanks SteveB altBricks

Beautiful model. What track is that running on? Assuming non-L guage are those Lego wheels sets? Steve

A little history: I was about to pull the trigger on the altBricks track. I literally had the content uploaded to Kick Starter but needed to tie up some loose ends before posting and then, BAM, the ME KS project was public. But alas still no metal track... I considered releasing the altBricks version at the same time but worried that the ME KS project already tapped the funds of the LEGO train enthusiasts. I figured out a way to make metal and plastic track relatively simple in one mold for all 4 curves (or 3 curves and 1 straight). It's a one piece track sections (like LEGO track) that is 100% connector compatible to LEGO track. The beauty of the altBricks system is that one simple machining process on industry standard HO nickle silver rail satisfies any radius curve or straight length. I made prototypes, a half dozen of these straight tracks and a 1/4 circle R88 (I think 8 segments) using ME rails and they all work fantastically. I would continue to do this for my whole home layout but its a big pain in the butt to retro-fit plastic rails and you tend to mess up 1 out of 6 times destroying the plastic track. The question now is do I make this process public domain? If so, I hope that if someone runs with the idea they pay me 3 full circles of each radius and some straights as royalty :-) Or should I do a Kick Starter project and have altBricks do this? A better idea is if the ME guys would agree to talk with me, they are the most logical company to do this and this solution can work in their system too. And my royalty seems pretty reasonable. :-) Your thoughts? Thanks, SteveB altBricks

Let's celebrate this fantastic MOC with self-promotion removed Steve

Great job. Thanks for all the prototype v. brick built photos! SteveB

Nice job. I like the wrap around decking, is that prototypical or something you designed? Funny, I was wondering why I never saw your MOC on Flickr in the past, after see this post I realized ...cause its new! :-) I just built a modern engine shed, but it needs some detailing. I was wondering if you found any good source materials on engine sheds? SteveB

Hi Tony, I was wondering if you got to do any testing with powered trains running on the track? Does the clutch power between the rails and ties withstand repeated running (torque forces) around the curves? For instance what happens when you run a heavy steamer + tender with a 3 or 4 car consistent around a dog-bone loop at a medium to fast speed for a while. Do the rails come loose? I ask this because when LEGO transitioned from 4.5v to 12v they added the clips on the ties to hold the rails on. I always assumed that they did this because the clutch power between the rails and ties didn't hold up to the faster and heavier 12 v trains. Can't wait to get mine order! :-) Thanks SteveB

Michael and I were just chatting off line about visual alignments of BlueBrick elements. They sometimes may look visually "off" because of pixel granularity, but are actually precisely aligned via the connection points so the accuracy of the layout is maintained. More details: Michael says, "Alignment in BlueBrick is always an issue--mostly as visual artifacts than true misalignment. The issue is that BB elements are rendered using GIF bitmaps which are pretty coarse at 1 pixel/1 mm. To make bitmaps for those custom curves (or any curved element for that matter), you need to truncate your pixel bitmap by a fraction of mm or so depending. This may register as a pixel shift +/- depending on zoom ratio, position, etc. Luckily, the connection points in BB are precise to floating point decimals. They are referenced to the centre point of the bitmap. Unfortunately, this means they are referenced to a coarse 1 pixel grid within the part. Thankfully, when adding consecutive curves, the connection point locations define the part position precisely. Its only the rendering of the GIF bitmaps with respect to these connection points that get quantized to the coarse 1 pixel grid. As long as you add track segments relative to another--they will remain precise in the drawing. I recommend starting a curve from a precisely aligned straight section first. Straights do not suffer from the pixel grid alignment issue, so you can be assured that they are aligned both logically and visually." Thanks SteveB

Hi All, I loaded Michael Gale's ME Track models into BlueBrick (a layout designer program) Parts Library and it works great! The library is freely available for download at Michael's website at www.brickdimensions.com/resources/trains. Photos of and Flickr thread is here. Again thanks Michael for this awesome resource! After about 30 mins of laying out track on top of the base plates that represent my future layout I quickly realized a few things. This is a whole new world of layout design! The new radii offers a lot of choices in the layout but with flexibility comes complexity. Initially I created 1/4 circle track segment groups to keep it simple and immediately realized that 1/4 and 1/2 length straight track segments are required. I think to exactingly plan a large multi-loop layout it would take a lot of work and there will be some hands on real world BKMs (best know methods) learned in the coming months. Model railroaders have a lot of layout design rules that we can learn from too. One rule that is immediately aesthetically noticeable is, "Try not to have the track run parallel to the edge of the table." The new subtle curves can really help with this! I can't wait to see what is thought of... I think in the "old days" many of us learned the limitations of the 40R only system after a couple attempts at building a few layouts and train yards etc. This limited geometry inadvertently keep layout design simple. NOTE: This is not your 9v track system anymore! :-) I'm very excited to use the new track radii and I hope the real track I ordered arrives soon so I can get some "hands-on" experience with these new curves! Thanks, SteveB

As for the sand green I got lucky and found clearance Yodas for $25ea. I bought 12! But that was a long time ago. I think Bob Day built a nice PAC NW consist too. He's part of PortLUG. BTW I cheated on the nose and used painted archs... But they were painted in Billund! SteveB

Train Yard

I really like the nose of the engine and the B unit too. I believe these are F units. I don't know the engine type but I recall seeing some more squared off noses on Santa Fe MOCs years ago. I tried to build one of those too. Here's my 2008 version (http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=349224). You have totally inspired me to update this one with some newly available (in the last 6 years) elements. I think I might try the SNOT'ed 1x2x3 dark green windows like the recent TGV. And the dark green curved roof too.

Chip's Ice House photos on Flicker Hi All, I recently finished a new building, Chip's Ice House, for my train layout. It is a scratch built "copy" of Woodland Scenic's Chip's Ice House. I really enjoy Woodland Scenic's web site because their models are already "selectively compressed" and finely detailed. I also scratch built "copied" the Meg-A-Watt factory building. I noticed that Jason (j-spears) also built the Barrel Factory from Woodland... :-) I have been wanting to build this one for over a year and when I saw michaelozzie1's Train2 folder on Flickr I was inspired by the Cargo Loading Shed! BTW... I totally stole the palette MOC from michaelozzie1! Thanks all for the inspirations !!! SteveB

Looks really nice. Very clean lines and well populated. I was wondering about the 1/4 round sweeping curve vs. the R40 tight curves and the speed regulation. Are you able to leave the trains run unattended? Also, is that a "lift out" or hinged bridge so enter/exit is easy? Thanks SteveB

I bet he's still waiting for the train because the train's battery ran out of power... plastic track - nice touch! If it was a 9v metal rail it wouldn't have made any sense! ;-) SteveB

Hi All, Here are a couple renderings of the track and relative size. To answer a question: all radii will be 32 pieces per circle, 11.25 deg per section. This is because if I make more than one radius I want to enable all to be used in parallel. One old model railroad "rule of thumb" is that you should never place track parallel to the edge of the table. So one segment of 11.25 deg track makes for a really nice subtle angle to the edge of a table. If there are multiple parallel tracks in a main line you'd want all to curve at 11.25 deg. This first image shows two segments of track per radius, these are the proposed tie count and spacing. Below are the relative circle sizes and I added a 60" x 60" table to show a comparison. I love the drawing in the last post that showed the super "HoMa" curves (using only straights with 1/2 stud offset trick).

PORTLAND Street Names personified in LEGO! FYI if folks didn't know this... Several characters in Portland native Matt Groening's television show The Simpsons have names based on the alphabetically named streets in the Northwest District: Ned Flanders, the bully Kearney, Reverend Lovejoy,Mayor Quimby, Milhouse Van Houten (actually in North Portland), and possibly C. Montgomery Burns[ide] (also named for the large neon Montgomery Park, formerly Montgomery Ward, sign).[8] from - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_District,_Portland,_Oregon SteveB

Hi All, Just want to let everyone know I am reading every message (sometimes more than once)! Here's a response to the last couple days. Thanks again and keep them coming!!! Some background... I have been a train AFOL since 1997... and I have wanted to do this since the beginning! Ben and I (we both live in Portland, OR) and many others have been talking and even acting on this project. Until the track is in your hands any number of things can and will go wrong! But I think I got a clear path to at least making the plastic large radius track, assuming the Kickstarter funding happens. As for redesigning the entire track system... I thought about and worked on this for a while. There are some very good new and past project ideas, but there are too many barriers to be successful. So I believe staying with the same design aesthetic and direct compatibility is the right solution for altBricks. I plan to do one or more Kickstarter projects for all this. There isn't a good method to have people choose 1 of many on KS, it's rather binary, go or no go. So I have to come up with the best product offering that covers the most needs so that the project gets funded. The first KS project will be for plastic track, if I can sort out the manufacturing costs in the next month these may be upgradable to support metal for 9v. After all that if there is a high enough demand I will definitely add to the product line, more radii, 9v, straight etc. Thanks, SteveB altBricks

Below are statements that are synthesized from a lot of great discussions! THANKS for your feedback of deep thoughts and feelings on this topic! I am trying to comprehend and then properly react to the needs of the train head AFOLs. Here's a summary and follow up Q’s of what I'm reading... 1) Club layouts can handle large radius curves. Personal layouts are size constrained, thus need smaller curves. Q: But… do the 56s (R+1) radius curves meet the needs of running longer trains with a higher car count for everyone? Note: In my experience, no. 2) 72s (R+2) radius enables 2 circles on a 60" / 75cm table. And only requires 47.5" or 121.6cm per circle (a 4'x8' sheet of plywood in US). Q: Will this satisfy both club layout larger radius needs and personal size constrained layout needs? Note: I'm leaning this way now. 3) There is a lot of emphasis on the appearance of parallel tracks (16 stud center line spacing). Q: Does adding a 1 straight section at the halfway point or 3 straight sections at the quarter and halfway points meet these needs? Note: The bigger the radius the less noticeable the straight sections are. 4) All 9v folks REALLY want 9v track, but there is a fixed & limited market for 9v track. Plastic track users shouldn’t have to pay the “9v tax”. Q: Would a plastic track with a simple snap-on “install at home” metal sheathing upgrade be a solution (assuming the rail height and gauge tolerances are maintained)? Note: One mold for both Plastic and Metal track will spread out the capital expense… the only viable solution I have found. Note: Replacing current track geometry with large radius track will also net straight track (and 40s curve) surplus!

(Edit) Nevermind... this will work as is. Well thanks... only issue is that it only lets you choose one radius and rank order them. Can the Poll do that? SteveB

Are you willing to share the instructions for the GG-1, I'd love to play with color schemes. s

Hi All, The feedback is wonderful, thanks a bunch! Answers like “88, 72, 104, 56, 9v“ are best, it helps me actually tally the “votes”. Antidotal replies are great too but a little less measurable. Thanks for the follow up on the radii question, you got it correct! These stud numbers are center-line radii, the outside diameter (OD) is to the outside edge of the tie (see below), this is good to know to determine table size needs. I'm leaning toward 88 for two reasons: 1) it is the same radius as the curve-straight (repeat) circle, 2) it fits on two banquet tables (US size). Can someone confirm the width of the banquet tables in Europe? Is it ~75 cm? - the second track has a 56 stud radius (the OD is 37" or 96 cm) - the third track has a 72 stud radius (the OD is 47.5" or 121.6cm) - the fourth track has an 88 stud radius (the OD is 57.5" or 147.2cm) - the fifth track has a 104 stud radius (the OD is 67.5" or 172.8cm) I haven't tested the 6 wheel trucks yet. I'll do that tonight on the 104s 3D-printed prototype. It would be nice if the 6 wheel trucks worked on the chosen radius. I haven't tested the distance between fixed axel cars yet. I'll do that tonight on the 104s 3D-printed prototype. I believe the max is 18s length on standard 40s curves. It would be nice if the max length could accommodate longer fixed axel cars. It would be great to measure/calculate relative rolling resistance for each radius, I don’t have them all made so can do the test… any physics nerds out there that are up for the challenge? I can do the trig for each wheel but don’t know how to model rolling resistance per wheel at various wheel-rail angles. I am planning on a single radius now. I originally wanted to do all 4 in one mold but the price is to prohibitive. Perhaps as a stretch goal once I get the Kickstarter project underway. SteveB

They will look very similar to LEGO® track. If we do the 9v, we are planning to use the same design as LEGO did with the metal sheathing. FYI: I have already discussed this with LEGO and they are not endorsing or supporting this, but they are OK with altBricks making large radius track. SteveB

Hi All, Please free free to forward along to your clubs and train-head AFOL friends and please respond to legosteveb@yahoo.com. altBricks is planning to release a large radius track element (32 sections per full circle) in the next 2-3 months. We have the CAD files ready and the bids in from the Portland (US) based mold shop and injection manufacturer. We have even printed a dozen of these (104s plastic version) and had them at BricksCascades last week. Given the high cost of the endeavor we want to make sure that we get feedback from the train community before we move to the next step. Two survey questions: 1) Please rank order the radius of track you prefer: 56, 72, 88, & 104 (studs) 2) Please choose the type of track you perfer. A) Plastic (~$4.50* / section) or B) 9v (~$6.50* / section) *These prices are preliminary and to show there is a higher cost for metal. Thanks for your help in making this possible. SteveB altBricks