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Everything posted by Dragonator
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Looking at what we know and from what I have heard from several of you today, I would be happy to vote Leanne as my most likely suspect. Her theories are just confusing and distracting, and very likely have some sort of alternative motive. Without further ado, I shall: Vote: Leanne (Forresto)
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I wouldn't let the captain of this ferry anywhere near my tiller, that's for sure! Talk about taking it rough!
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Oh Lucy, you can obviously see the flaws in your arguments now and are desperately trying to recover yourself and justify them, but it just isn't working I'm sorry my dear. You city girls are quite irrational, unlike we country folk, we actually have to think about what we are going todo and say before we do it, otherwise the crops would never get planted! As it were, I signed up for the game as per usual and was selected, but informed the hosts that I would be absent for 4 days in which I understood day 1 would be occurring. Rather than just bring me in at day 1 like normal people would do and let me say something near the end or some such, they decided to bring me in at day 2 instead, meaning I was not playing or doing anything during day 1. I was forced to confirm by PM after day 1 finished. If you want to further complain about the handling of that situation, take it up with the hosts, as it really isn't a valid argument to use in here. I'm not trying to say that that means I cannot be scum, I am simply trying to say that using it as the only evidence to back up your claim that I committed murders on the first night is false (and metagaming). I would think that should be obvious, but maybe you city girls are just a bit slower with the brain cell connections. Special privileges? If your only justification is that I arrived late because I'm a farm moderator as you put it, then that really is very sad. Indeed it is metagaming, you are trying to justify your argument against me on outside influences. I'm sorry, but your claims and evidence just aren't matching up, first you say I was around on the first day plotting and killing people while nobody could see me, hear me, or even knew I existed, and now you are concurring that yes I did in fact only arrive on day 2, but now outside influences mean it is suspicious. You make no sense woman. That sounds like metagaming to me, you are trying to justify your argument in his game of life with occurrences in past games of life. That and your previous argument really doesn't leave you with much in terms of a convincing story. Perhaps you should sit down and think a bit before you next open your mouth, dear. Anyway, I've had enough of all this useless distraction for the moment, Lucy here is obviously deranged and doesn't have a clue what she is babbling on about. While she sits there and continues chatting with herself about her groundless accusations and flawed arguments, why don't the rest of us get on with the real business of the day. Poor girl just needs to get things sorted out a bit clearer in her head, I should say. I must say that I also find Leanne a bit suspicious with her constant random accusations, but I'm not sure if it is the sign of a scummy mafia member or of a scared and irrational townie. Either way, I don't have an opinion on it, so if we decide to vote that way I will support it. As to Sarah, I think the dancer theory is again a bit silly, as we have no way of knowing that one of each is scum, and we would be stupid to assume so. That of course doesn't mean she isn't scum, of course, just that this piece of "evidence" isn't relevant, much like some other things we heard just earlier.
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Jack, that is the most outrageous thing I have heard today. If I only just arrived today from way out in the country, how in the world could I have killed anyone yesterday? I think someone is still a bit bitter after I ran out of carrots last month before they got any. Perhaps you should consider the fact that the player of Miss Rhonda was absent when the first day thread went up, and only got back when Day 2 was to begin. Do not try and justify your vote with metagaming, thank you. My name wasn't on the list because I was not playing at that point, let alone confirmed. You are trying to twist things to suit your idea and failing rather miserably at it, rather than taking the evidence and basing things off that. Let me remind you that when people normally arrive late in these games of life, they are actually already playing you dolt. Since you are getting into all this metagaming crap and using past games to justify your arguments, why don't we look at the loyal character of Darlene from a novel I have read called The Baritones. She also arrived on the second day, she was loyal, and nobody tried to argue that the fact she wasn't even in town makes her a bloody murder! While I agree that you should not just forget this particular occurrence, using it to infer that I committed the murder is illogical and leads me to think you may have some alternative motives to do so. Are you trying to distract us all from our discussion of Leanne? Or do you have some deeper grudge you are trying to sate? Either way, your illogical and quite blatantly false arguments have put you on my suspicion list, Jack.
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Anyone want farm fresh produce? Rhonda looks around. Oh dear, it would appear there is a bit of a situation going on here. I have always loved this town, even though I only make the journey here from my farm once a month to sell produce, so I think I had better stay until the current problems are sorted out. I'm sure you will all appreciate another pair of hands in this battle against evil. So yes, I'm Rhonda Falzone, a local farmer as most of you know. I hope I can be of some assistance to you all in this struggle, I would hate to see my beloved city come to ruin.
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Name: Infection Host: Quarryman Dates: November - December 2009 Survivors: Dragonator, Inertia, Darth_Legois, Sandy, Mr. Mandalorian (Scum) Game Information The year is 2258. The Tellus Union Kosmosfahrer Gagarin, tasked with exploring potential new worlds for colonization has arrived in the Ver-Ziji system. Aboard the Ship are beings from many races, humanoid and non-humanoid, all working together in harmony, despite earlier conflicts and differences. Well, mostly in harmony. As the planet Ver-Ziji 4 seemed very promising on the long-range scans, it was decided to send down a scout team to further investigate. On the planet's surface the scout team had several interesting discoveries such as magnificent crystal formations, weird plants, and some strange, red, worm-like aliens that showed signs of being sentient... Characters and Players Lt. Cmdr. Susan Antares played by Shadows Lt. Varax Fraa, navigator played by Inertia 2nd Lt. Eituze, pilot played by WhiteFang Specialist Niwrad Selrac, communications played by Black Rabbit Security chief Michael Sheridan played by Hinckley Security guard Sarah Ohce played by Sir Dillon Security guard Barney Vance played by Svelte Leonard "Leo" Nyer, chief engineer played by Ricecracker Fassin Trevlac, mechanic played by YG-49 La'h'Rok, reactor chief played by I Scream Clone Jad Suur, maintenance guy played by Darkness Falls Engofi Cheipo, hydroponics engineer played by Eskallon Android S/N: 'AHY6CEF3' (aka DAVE) played by Mr. Mandalorian Khrum, "the strong guy" played by Stash2Sixx Wicwa, alien cook played by Sandy Ivan "the terrible", human cook played by Darth_Legois Florentzia Lizar, head of research staff played by JimButcher Ada Bergsndot, computer specialist played by Zepher Ernev Seluj, language specialist played by Dragonator Dr. Ben Elegnem, head of medical staff played by simonjedi Nurse Edna Hylris played by pedro Game Threads Day 1 - and so it begins Day 2 - You must learn to embrace the madness. Let it fire you. Day 3 - between the Darkness and the Light Day 4 - ..a bunch of misfits. You really don't have a clue, do you? Day 5 - So much is falling apart out there. Day 6 - it is too late for the pebbles to vote Conclusion - Now get the Hell out of our galaxy! Other Threads General Discussion, Confirmation and Index Introduction and Sign-Up ************
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Name: Mystical Castle Host: Dragonator Dates: September - October 2009 Survivors: Darth_Legois, Striker, professor flitwick, JimButcher, WhiteFang (Town) Game Information Since the disappearance of the last Dragon King almost 20 years ago, civil war has run through the once mighty Kingdom of the Dragon Knights like a plague runs through a city. The land has seen much blood, much war, and much mayhem, with the rise and fall of dozens of new nations. Much has changed from the old ways, and it is only those who are strong of will and have the desire for survival that have been successful in their bids for power and influence in such an unstable time. No dragons have been sighted in the land since the ransacking of the capital, Dratos, and the looting of Dragons Keep, not many months after civil unrest broke out. The city has long since been abandoned, leaving the once mighty citadel that was the center of the kingdom to the vultures. Although the Kingdom no longer survives, a number of new territories have since sprung up throughout the once unified land. The largest of these are based around the three largest surviving cities in the land; the People's Republic of Hamenweir in the north, the City State of Dromindur in the far South, and the Kingdom of Matidoer towards the East. Although all small, with hardly any real control beyond the walls of their own cities, these three new nations have been successful in keeping a foothold in the new unstable world the people are now forced to live in. But they will not survive much longer if war continues to ravage the land, with many various armies contending for dominance over the sacred ground that was the Dragon Knights Kingdom. In the hope of peace, and future survival, King Charles Stafford of Matidoer has called a meeting of the Three Nations, to discuss a very important matter... Characters and Players King Charles Stafford (non player) Queen Mary Stafford (non player) Ambassador Ralf Simnel played by Quarryman Duchess Juliana Dufay played by Alice Hugh (Servant) played by WhiteFang Simon (Librarian) played by I Scream Clone Ambassador Sirion Vipont played by Shadows Countess Margaret Durville played by TinyPiesRUs Peter (Servant) played by Darth_Legois Lieutenant Victor played by Bob the Construction Man Lady Rohesia Papelion played by Sandy Lady Beatrice Harcourt played by Zepher Admiral Thomas Mallory played by Sir Dillon Lord William Harcourt played by Hinckley Richard (Guard) played by Ricecracker Agnes (Maid) played by Striker Nicholas (Guard) played by professor flitwick Francis the Friar played by Svelte Captain Geoffrey played by Escape the Fate Lord Edward Griffin played by Stash2sixx Ethel (Maid) played by Adam Gilbert (Guard) played by General Armendariz Chef Walter played by JimButcher Game Threads Prologue: The Alliance - Introduction and Sign Up Day 1 - Dragon's Fire Day 2 - Magic Masters Day 3 - Fiery Revenge Day 4 - Things that go Splat in the Night Day 5 - Useless Protection Day 6 - Feeding the Roses Day 7 - Greasy Friar Day 8 - Grilled 'n' Skewered Day 9 - Heads Up! Conclusion - Dragon's Revenge Other Threads General Discussion, Confirmation and Index EB News Presents: Walrus Keeper - Filmed at this Location ************
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Name: Noir Mafia Host: TinyPiesRUs Date: July - August 2009 Survivors: Shadows, Striker, Hinckley (Scum) Game Information The mayor of Guilder City - dead. But how could it have happened? Well, it all started a few weeks ago - the rather aptly named "Day 1" to be precise. It started out just like any other day. The sun rose from behind the towering bland buildings, and loomed above the cold streets of Guilder City. But it was to be far from an ordinary day. Characters and Players Henry played by Hinckley Eugene played by Escape the Fate Vincent Forman played by YG-49 Donald Sirna played by Sir Dillon Aida Sirna played by Alice Samual Stevens played by Stash2Sixx Dr. Julius Agon played by Dragonator Michelle played by Millacol88 Shawn Imperante played by Shadows Christopher played by NewRight (Replaced Keetong) Joey Quinn played by Quarryman Father Walters played by WhiteFang Jerry Buscemi played by JimButcher Donna played by Darth_Legois Gus Staines played by AwesomeStar Robert Concini played by Bob the Construction Man Rose played by Ricecracker Stephen played by Zepher Artie Sanders played by Sandy Carlo Ferguson played by Commander Flash Sal played by Striker Lorraine played by Lego12 Zita played by Zapper Brick Game Threads Day 1 Day 2 Day 3 Day 4 Day 5 Day 6 Day 7 Conclusion Other Threads General Discussion, Confirmation and Index Introduction and Sign-Up ************
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Pillage the Village II - VOTING - Large Category
Dragonator replied to Erdbeereis's topic in Pirate MOCs
There are some fantastic entries in this category, good job to everyone who entered. My points are awarded as follows: I Scream Clone - 5 Points You are my favourite, such a fantastic diorama. You have created a great sense of contrast between the foliage and trees of the left side, the large stone temple of the right, and the sea out the front. Your use of parts all over is interesting, and the mix of colours is very appealing to the eye. I particularly love the use of parts on the detailing if the temple, very well done there. The sea shore is very realistic, and the use of different shades of tan gives subtle interest to the beach. Lastly, this diorama has a good sense of humour which I highly value, from the interesting beliefs of the natives to the mermaids and antics of the pirates. It is all very well thought out and executed, and you deserve the majority of my points fully. Infomanic - 1 Points I really like this build, it is well laid out and has a nice overall sense of space. The rocks and buildings are particularly well executed, with a lively feel in the town through the use of the different colours in the wooden buildings. Some interesting action with the minifigs adds a nice level of interest, and one detail I really like is the artillery battery and the interesting fortifications that they are set on. A few cannons are always a nice addition to a seaside town. Derfel Cadarn - 1 Point I had to give this MOC a point for its lovely execution of the foliage and topography, I really think this is very well done. The beach sits nicely in the centre, and the path up to the house at the top is a nice addition. I really like the vibrant colours in the foliage too, it contrasts well with the monotonous dary grey of the cliff face. Good job. -
How very strange, I am certain I saw something roll out of that there locker. I suppose someone will have picked it up and will be plotting all our deaths or something, right Mr. Security Guard?
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New Zealand: "Where to find Lego"
Dragonator replied to Legoman's topic in Buy, Sell, Trade and Finds
Commander Fox, I have received a similar email as well, and I believe it must have something to do with a new system and the new year of membership. Remember that each year you are required to renew. It is a generic email, so it says "you are now an official member" because it will have been sent to all the new people who signed up this year as well. Don't worry about it, I would say. -
Goodness, talk about promising the security of our personal items. What is that object that rolled away there, someone grab it!
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Prohibition Mafia Confirmation & Discussion
Dragonator replied to Darth_Legois's topic in LEGO Mafia and Role-Play Games
Now that I am back from my trip away, I think I should say right now that the off topic and useless spammy posts seen by several of you in the day 1 thread of this game is not acceptable, and if it continues I will take further, individual action. It is not fair on the hosts or the other players when they have to wade through page after page of crap just to try and keep up with the story. Please make sure you are all posting sensibly and in character, giving constructive posts. The hosts have put a lot of effort into this, and as a previous host myself, I can tell you that it is highly aggravating and disappointing when players then mess about and ruin the high quality feel of the game. Please, when day 2 comes around, post sensibly and maturely, others things will get messy. If you do not completely understand the rules of the game, then I would suggest you do some very quick reading and read the rules at the start of the game, as well as reading over some of the recent games that have happened, to give you a feel for the sort of quality posting that is looked for in these games. -
Brickworld 2010 Registration and Brickworld Indy
Dragonator replied to BrickworldBryan's topic in Brickworld
I'm glad to see New Zealand is on that list, you are going to get a few of us non-US types coming over this year, hopefully. Europeans, Australians, New Zealanders... what more could you want? -
Well I'm glad we're all off to such a good start, although I can't say I'm happy about this weapon confiscation. I suppose it is only for the duration of the tour, but still, talk about customer service. Anyway, I am looking forward to getting to this temple and seeing this eclipse I've read so much about how it is a sight to behold. I may be a humble man with a humble job, but that doesn't mean I'm an idiot, so to speak. Don't worry honey, I'm here for you if anything goes wrong. While I'm always interested by myths and such, I would like to see some evidence of them first before believing. I'm not really one for unconditional faith, as my local parish pastor, Father Clarence, can likely attest to. It is just a tour, try and enjoy yourself, despite those two crones over there. Speaking of which... Not to be impolite, but you can shut your face William, you know very well that I enjoy reading, particularly history and such, and DJ has a similar taste to me. At least I'm not some wild unexplained fanatic of certain temples like some people I know. Looks pointedly at William. Yeah, I wonder why? Touche old man, touche...
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Red Moon Confirmation & Discussion thread
Dragonator replied to Hinckley's topic in LEGO Mafia and Role-Play Games
Hello all, I am back now, and it looks like I have 8 pages to read through. I better get to it! -
OLD Mafia and Mystery Games Index
Dragonator replied to MagPiesRUs's topic in LEGO Mafia and Role-Play Games
Big Cam and badboytje88, I completely understand what you are saying, and while I don't think it is good form to complain about not getting into games and such, I can say that I am actually already working on a little something for early next year that may rectify your situation if I deem it necessary to do so. Until then, continue contributing to the rest of the boards in a high quality and constructive way, and keep signing up for games, for you may well get into the next one when it comes around. -
OLD Mafia and Mystery Games Index
Dragonator replied to MagPiesRUs's topic in LEGO Mafia and Role-Play Games
On another note, I shall be absent from the forum from tomorrow till Wednesday, the 20th to the 23rd. If you have any urgent issues, please direct these to another appropriate staff member. Shadows has volunteered. -
Red Moon Confirmation & Discussion thread
Dragonator replied to Hinckley's topic in LEGO Mafia and Role-Play Games
Did someone say d96? Is that, like, a die or something? Sounds useless and weird if you ask me, who would want one of those? It might look good as the center piece of some junk art perhaps... -
Red Moon Confirmation & Discussion thread
Dragonator replied to Hinckley's topic in LEGO Mafia and Role-Play Games
Hey everyone. I'm Diesel, Diesel Nolan. You've just met my darling wife DJ, we got married recently, and this tour is going to be interesting, for both of us I hope. Too bad her parents are here, but you can't have everything I always say, right? -
Name: Galactic Paranoia Host: JlBlue (Days 1-3) and Shadows (Day 4 - Conclusion) Date: April - July 2009 Survivor: Escape the Fate (Double Agent) Game Information It is a time of war, yet peace looms on the horizon. Two groups, one Imperial, one Rebel, gather together to build an alliance and finally put an end to the fighting. Unfortunately, their efforts are hampered by traitors within their own ranks, traitors they need to catch before all is lost. Can they overcome the traitors, and their own prejudices, to get the job done? Characters and Players Non-Player Characters Rebel Commander Jeklan Blazer Luke Skywalker (the portrait of) Admiral Julius Blaire Grand Admiral Volrik Glarg Rebels Sgt. Tong Pincer played by TinyPiesRUs Pvt. Razak Crade played by Ricecracker Pvt. Hincklina Ross played by Hinckley Pvt. Al Iztad played by Alice Pvt. Darek Dasner played by Da Death Star Pvt. Quincy J. Mann played by Quarryman Pvt. Ivy Shadowspark played by Shadows Edner "Eddie" Flak played by Escape the Fate Dayton Stern played by Sir Dillon Adley "Newbie" Ahm played by Adam Widanko "Wiseguy" Fenk played by Whitefang Imperials Sarge played by Stash2Sixx Pvt. Zariah Phervik played by Zepher Pvt. Signicious Drumthwack played by Silent-Sigfig Pvt. Nester Brand played by Natman8000 Pvt. Drake Knator played by Dragonator Pvt.Wedge Durnkist played by Wouwie Pvt. Terris "Toupée" Bentman played by Tim Bit Pvt. Trent "Madman" Maverick played by Trexxen Pvt. Danko "Whatshisname" Legovski played by Darth_Legois Pvt. Pepper Fletchman played by Professor Flitwick Pvt. Boden Constrek played by Bob the Construction Man Game Threads Day 1: Imperials - Up by the Chains... Day 1: Rebels - Without a Trace... Day 2: Imperials - Puddle of Blood... Day 2: Rebels Day 3: Imperials - Meet Your Sergeant Day 3: Rebels - Blown Apart... Day 4: Imperials - Shadows of the Empire Day 4: Rebels - The Return of a Jedi Day 5: Imperials - Shafted! Day 5: Rebels - Boys, Boys, Boys! Day 6 - Black Sun Rising Day 7 - Suffer Not the Witch to Live! Day 8 - I Hear the Secrets That You Keep Day 9 - Falling Death Day 10 - It's Still Rock and Roll to Me Conclusion - All Good Things ... Other Threads General Discussion Introduction and Sign-Up Game Index Replacements Topic EB News Presents Galactic Paranoia: An Expose ************
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I would like to put my name down to play, I think this looks like it could be an interesting game. You have chosen a nice time frame too, looks good.
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Name: The Baritones 2 Host: Hinckley Date: January - March 2009 Survivor: Shadows (Scum) Game Information Despite winning the first round, the good people of Moonlight find themselves quickly outnumbered by mafia goons. Crime rises again and the townspeople live in fear. The mafia returned to Moonlight with a vengeance, as if they had something to prove from being run out of town in the first place. The innocent townspeople only have one chance to survive and turn their town back into the peaceful 'burb it was meant to be: the FBI. After a string of busts and seizures the Baritones are at their wit's end. The FBI and local police seem to be one step ahead of that at every turn. They must face the ugly truth: there must be rats among them... Characters and Players The Made Men Dragonatieri played by Dragonator Tony played by Atoll Dweller Richie played by ricecracker Johnny Blue played by Jlblue Quarrioni played by Quarryman Trexxisanti played by Trexxen The Wives Alicia played by Alice Adalaide played by Adam LeAnn played by lego12 Pavarti played by ptdapen Zabrina played by Zepher Wynona played by wouwie13 The Captains Perry Blockioli played by Cpt. Pegleg Blockbeard Piav Blockioli played by TinyPiesRUs Willie Fangolie played by WhiteFang Dickie played by Sir Dillon Inertiatieri played by Inertia The "Fronts" Stanton played by stash2sixx Boyd played by Bob the Construction Man Ian played by Shadows Pedro played by Pencoin Game Threads Day 1 Day 2 Day 3 Day 4 Day 5 Day 6 Day 7 Day 8 Day 9 Day 10 Conclusion Other Threads General Discussion, Introduction and Confirmation Sign-Up ************
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Name: Witch Hunt Mafia Host: TinyPiesRUs Dates: October - December 2008 Survivors: lego12, Quarryman, ImperialScouts, Atoll Dweller, Darth_Legois, Shadows, Dragonator, Pickerel, darthperson, Adam, Norrington, WhiteFang, Zepher, pr0visorak (Town) Game Information Across the countryside rode Fernandez, his red cloak dancing in the wind. Inquisitor Fernandez had been sent to Azufre, following accounts that all manner of witchcraft and heresy had been spotted in this once good town. A veteran of witch hunting, Fernandez knew what must be done. The citizens of Azufre would root out the ones they suspected of heresy and execute them. It would be a grim and bloody ordeal, but he knew that if God was willing, the town will triumph, and the ever-growing tide of evil would at last be quelled. Fernandez's horse halted. Lifting the brim of his weathered hat above his eyes, he looked out into the distance. It was there that the town of Azufre lay. "Soon, soon this town will be free from Satan's grasp." Characters and Players Sergio played by lego12 Cassandra played by Bob the Construction Man Hernan played by stash2sixx Charles played by Hinckley Miguel played by Quarryman Bernard played by Trexxen Elisa played by ImperialScouts (replaced Wilhelm Screamer) Pablo played by Atoll Dweller John played by Darth_Legois Isabella played by kill will Alexander played by ImperialShadows Mustafa played by Dragonator Martinus played by Pickerel Henry played by darthperson Fernando played by ptdapen Sabrina played by Lt. Col. Thok (replaced alexrider7 and I Scream Clone) Philip played by Adam Gustavus played by Norrington (replaced wouwie13) Christopher played by WhiteFang Joan played by Zepher Roberto played by pr0visorak Game Threads Day 1 - An Inquisitor Arrives in Azufre... Day 2 - A Rough Night... Day 3 - Uneventful... Day 4 - Four in a Bed... Day 5 - Sunday in Azufre... Day 6 - Fuego and Azufre - and a Nobbled Noble... Day 7 - The Pain in Spain falls Mainly to... Azufre. Conclusion Other Threads General Discussion and Sign-Up Rules and Confirmation The Sets ************
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Name: The Baritones Host: Hinckley Date: September - October 2008 Survivors: Shadows, Dragonator, WhiteFang, Quarryman (Town) Game Information The mafia family The Baritones have taken over the little town of Moonlight. Law enforcement officials have fled in fear of their lives and the local politicians are all seemingly corrupt, except for the mayor who has vowed to clean up the town. The citizens of Moonlight are fed up with living in fear and lawlessness and have taken matters into their own hands. The once peaceful community has formed a vigilante group to rid their town of the dreaded Baritones family. Unfortunately for Moonlight, the Baritones are a clever bunch and have infiltrated the ranks of the vigilantes. It is now up to the citizens of the town to determine who among them is friend and who is foe. Characters and players Al, Personal Trainer played by Adam Betty, Accountant played by Bob the Construction Man The Bikers - Patty, Flint and Tom played by randomparrot, professor flitwick and Thomas B. Carter, Retired Newspaper Editor played by Skinny Boy The Construction Workers - Trekk, Steve and Dillon played by Trexxen, Quarryman and Sir Dillon Darlene, Lawyer played by Dragonator Iris, Cosmetics Saleswoman played by IScreamClone Lee, Sales Manager played by lego12 The Local News Crew - Neal and Veronica played by Norrington and ~VBBN~ Mayor of Moonlight played by ptdapen Pete, Garbage Man played by Pencoin Restaurant Owners - Ivan and Florence played by Shadows and DJ Force Rhonda, Aerobics Instructor played by Agent Rick57 Sky, Artist played by WhiteFang Stan, Warehouse Manager played by Stash2Sixx Game Threads Prologue - Introduction and Confirmation Day 1 Day 2 - A Town Terrorized Day 3 - The Citizens Strike Back! Day 4 - A Good Man Slain... Day 5 - An End to the Spectral Help Day 6 - Endgame Begins Day 7 - Grave Mistakes Day 8 - Ding Dong, Dillon is Dead The Conclusion Other Threads General Discussion and Sign-Up ************