fhomess

I think this is a continuation of what I saw yesterday and why I voted for Ms. Taylor then. While her earlier posts of today had me rethinking her, her eagerness to vote for Mehmet today just seems odd. Mehmet's loss, if he's an innocent, would be a big deal, and he's got enough claims out there that it should be fairly easy to disprove one or two of them in relatively short order if he is indeed making things up. Vote: Jennifer Taylor(Sandy)

Yeah, Jen asked the question. It's a bit unfortunate that our hosts revealed so much information about the win conditions as it would've been fairly easy for the virgin and non-virgin innocents to come together eventually and determine that night actions are mutually exclusive for the two groups. In the meantime, it would've been possible that a cultist or other non-innocent would have tried to claim both before they figured out the same thing. Such is life. Anyway, while it seems a bit early to have so many people all trusting Mehmet with their various roles and skills, hopefully we'll get enough information out of it to make a more informed decision today, and by tomorrow, we'll have even more to go on.

I need to go back through my notes on day 1, but I don't think anyone voted for Percy or even cast much suspicion his way. Seems like a fairly safe approach from cultists who are trying to avoid casting suspicion back at them. It's almost certain that there were cultists among the frantic vote switchers toward the end of the day, and also almost certain that not all of them were a part of it. Mehmet, given that we've had one night kill, but have a protector, blocker, and vigilante... I would think that you could work with those people to be able to verify claims. It'd be quite useful to know if Percy's death really was a cultist attack (which I strongly suspect it was based on him being fed to IMHOTEP), but at least it'll get us closer. Also, it's worth pointing out that just because there was only one night kill, doesn't mean the vigilante was blocked. An innocent friendly vigilante may have elected not to kill anyone if they weren't sure of who to kill, or may have a limited number of bullets.

You have indeed been very active, and possibly helpful, too, but helpful in some ways tend to paint a target on your back. To be fair, having a target painted on your back can indeed be helpful if you're trying to distract people from other useful innocents. Cultists can also be helpful, though. All that said, this is not a one day affair. A strategy that looks at the benefits a decision made today can have on tomorrow is logical. I don't necessarily think you need to accommodate this request, but you have to understand that the reaction people have had is to be expected. That is a bit of a strange sounding role, but it certainly seems like the type of thing that would make sense. If the Cultists task is to eliminate all Virgins, then you would be exactly the kind of target they're looking for, and it would make sense why you wouldn't want to reveal that. On the other hand, if you're a cultist, it is something you would know exists, and be the thing you'd claim to save yourself. Since it's possible you're telling the truth, I will Unvote: Patrick Fitzwilliam (def). If you are really a virgin, and that really is the win condition for the cultists, it would be a mistake to sacrifice you. Instead, I will Vote: Jennifer Taylor (Sandy). After our initial little sillyness with stating you'd just vote for whoever got voted first, you hopped on the Farago bandwagon and then the Fitzwilliam bandwagon when it appeared that both were going to be the sacrificial lamb.

Ok, I'm going to place my vote as follows: Vote: Patrick Fitzwilliam (def) This vote is because I think the information we'll learn from his departure will be the most helpful moving forward. Mr. Fitzwilliam has been a divisive figure today. Ms. Farago came to his defence at a very odd time early on. Mr. Apu and Mr. Attabar were the ones who argued the most with him throughout the day. Mr. Fitzwilliam's change of his vote from Mt. Attabar to Ms. Farago could be interpreted as an effort to distance the two of them. If Mr. Fitzwilliam is sacrificed and his status as either a cultist or innocent is revealed, then I think we'll learn the most about the discussion that went on today. There are other candidates that are equally suspicious to me, even some that could reveal a great deal about the discussion of today, but Mr. Fitzwilliam is at the top of those lists for me. Sorry, Patrick, this is less about what you said specifically than the reactions everyone has had to it.

Are you suggesting that there are potentially innocents who were told the Cultist's win condition, and that they've shared that with Patrick in private but no one else? I suppose that's possible although I don't know why they would do such a thing so quickly. It's possible that people told him their role and he deduced a possible win condition from that. I doubt a cultist would've told it to him. I believe the only person who's claimed to have had a private conversation with him was Mehmet. The question I'm debating is whether or not I think he's likely to have deduced it, is just throwing out crap, or is one of them himself.

I'm trying to think how he could possibly know such a win condition, and it seems to me that there are a few options: 1. He's a cultist - the most obvious way he would know their win condition 2. He doesn't actually know it and is just saying it because... well I'm not really sure - to see who reacts, perhaps? 3. He is neither a cultist nor an innocent and has his own win condition which has made this clear to him. 4. He's been given some information related to his role as an innocent. The only other option I can think of is that he's talking with enough people behind the scenes to have gathered information that seems unlikely anyone would've revealed to him yet. Among these, options 1 and 3 seem like pretty good reasons to vote for him. Option 2 seems a bit silly at this point given all the other goings on of the day. Option 4 is intriguing, but if what he says about the Cultists win condition is true, also potentially dangerous to reveal unless he's really in line to be sacrficed. If he's an innocent and thinks that he's among the group the Cultists ought to target, his behavior today would seemingly not have been a good approach. Since he also seems to be smart, perhaps he doesn't believe he's a target of the Cultists under this option. What am I missing?

Unvote: Toulouse Leplot (WhiteFang) I was a bit disappointed at Mr. Leplot's severe reaction to having a vote cast his way simply for quietness, but he was correct in that I didn't have anything convincing to go on. In addition, two people who are more familiar with Mr. Leplot vouched that quietness is nothing out of the ordinary for him. While I think voting for quiet people to draw them more into the conversation is a valid approach, I don't have any strong reason to suspect Mr. Leplot. Given the low vote totals of the leaders, I don't think it's wise to leave my vote with him given the lack of evidence. I'll submit a new vote in a few hours as I need to review some of my notes on crystals.

I'll go ahead and let it stand for now as it wasn't an entirely random selection in the first place. Mr. Leplot has been very quiet but has popped in enough times with comments that haven't added to the conversation in a way that I think is helpful in getting any future value out of. For that reason, I'll ask Mr. Leplot to explain himself. A reasonable response will get an unvote. A reasonable response if you think my actions weren't entirely helpful (and I admit it probably was), but in the end, tossing out votes on people who are quiet is not spiffingly useless. It encourages those people to join the conversation and will hopefully lead to information that can be used later even if it's not entirely revealing today. Allowing the day to fly by without any real accusations is wasting the day and plays into the Cultists hands. I don't have any real evidence to go on with Mr. Leplot, but allowing him to remain quiet if he is a cultist would not be in our best interest.

Fair enough, I'll leave the vote out there until Ms Taylor responds appropriately. Vote: Toulouse LePlot (WhiteFang)

I want to call Ms. Taylor on her statement. Now, I would like to Unvote: Toulouse LePlot (WhiteFang)

Ok, then. I Vote: Toulouse LePlot (WhiteFang)

Thanks, this all makes sense to me. I have found it a bit strange that despite the fact that we've been mocking the idea of being Any'd and asking for clarification throughout most of the day, Is and Ossie have remained quiet on the matter. I'm not yet sure how knowing that condition will help us prevent it, but perhaps there are things I'm not aware of.

I didn't say the goal of the Cultists was clear. I said the goal of the Innocents was clear: I questioned why Mr. Fitzpatrick felt it was so important for us to try to determine more clarity in the Cultists goals at this point of our current situation since we have no evidence from which to determine this, I don't suspect the Cultists will simply come out and tell us, and it doesn't change the goal for us Innocents. Just trying to drum up conversation on something that struck me as slightly out of context with other parts of the conversation, and something that was never really responded to. It may be totally benign.

I'd like to ask William Fitzpatrick, our big game hunter, not to be confused with Patrick Fitzwilliam, our outspoken expedition leader, why he's so concerned about the Cultists' goals at this point. You've bought this question up twice, most likely because you didn't get any real response the first time. The goal of the Innocents is clearly outlined, and it is to kill off all Cultists. The goal of any third party explorers is similarly unspecified, but you do not seem concerned about this at all. I believe it is highly likely that the goal of the Cultists involves the systematic killing of Innocents. Whether or not there is more to it than that, may not really help the Innocents at this point since our goal is clearly stated. I confess that I found your question about the Cultists' goal to be unneccesary (although not entirely unhelpful), and a bit out of place in the context of the rest of the conversation. Yes? What?

There seems to be a lot of discussion about rules and whether or not we should vote to sacrifice someone. I'll point out that Is and Ossie have stated that we may vote and unvote as many times as we like. Therefore, if someone wants, they can vote and unvote immediately. This seems a bit pointless to me, and would kind of defeat the primary purpose of the vote, but it's a potential for people who feel that a vote is stronger than just a stated opinion. That said, I will be casting a vote when the time comes. I don't yet know for whom it will be, but I just feel that an actual vote is the strongest and only way to really get people to have the level of discourse needed to draw the best conclusions from. At least, I believe that will be true to a large extent for any cultists, who are likely to want to avoid answering anything directly unless they absolutely have to. Lastly, I'd like to point out that while the rules do not state that there is a penalty for not voting, they also do not state that there is no penalty for not voting. In light of this, I am not going to assume either to be the case until Is and Ossie state one way or the other, or someone actually puts the ruling to the test by not voting.

A sacrifice to IMHOTEP? This certainly seems a bit old fashioned to me. From a scientific viewpoint, it would seem that such a being that actually is intent on devouring humans could not possibly exist. Unless perhaps there are some sort of crystals buried in this valley that have magical powers. I'm afraid my past experiences with crystals and all my papers on them have never led me to believe that such a situation as we find ourselves in today would be possible. This is certainly something new. However, if it is true that we must offer up all the cultists to IMHOTEP to avoid being Any'd by them, I'd much rather we choose a course of action that will allow us to have greater hope of finding cultists in the days that come. So I would be in favor of the course of action proposed by McFitztrick Pawilliam. With no evidence to go on a healthy discussion seems prudent.

Ophelia Balls here. I'm sure that if I can get a look at the earth and any gemstones near the statue, that I'll be able to find a perfectly rational explanation for the strange happenings in here in the valley.

My latest addition was a pair of those little Target gift bags with the archer and target (Set 30062). Nice little parts pack with the apples, chicken leg, and weapons.

Ooh, I've been waiting for another one of these. 1) Passed Mafia School in Def's Witchbreed. 2) I'm available daily 3) As I'm relatively new to EB mafia, I'm going to go with the way the scum was meticulously outed in the recent Gotham mafia. There are aspects of that interaction that could fall on both best and worst lists, but in all, it was a great lesson for everyone.

I wasn’t a part of this game, but followed it pretty closely. I’ve only been involved in the one online mafia game (def’s Witchbreed), so I’m not too experienced in this. At first I was annoyed by the “scum or dumb” thing, but then realized that it was to mess with the scum, and it was clearly working. That said, there were some behaviors in this game that I thought were low class. I'm a bit with Hinckly in that I think you ought to treat people on the internet the same way you would in person. Just because you're interacting via computer and through text on a screen, doesn't mean there aren't real people on the other end. 1. Mafia school comments – it’s been debated a bit already, but the biggest problem I have with it is that it’s an insult that can’t be justified in the context of the game world. 2. Watching people’s forum behavior – I realize that not posting right after reading or being involved elsewhere on the forums can be a scum tactic in order to wait for more information to come up, but this is again something that is outside of the game world. It’s really not any different for someone to go off an read something in the historic themes forum as it is for them to go off and read on a sports, news, or video site elsewhere on the internet. People should not have to abandon the other things they like doing in order to not look like scum in a mafia game, and that's not the same as not being committed to the game. Def may have put his whole life on hold for this game, but it doesn't mean everyone else needs to, as long as they're still participating. 3. I was also disappointed at the amount of metagaming that happened on the basis of characters, but I think there was a fair amount of confirmation bias in there as well. All that said, I really enjoyed following along. The game was played very well by some of the key players, and I was impressed the Killer Croc got himself off the hook so well. The town did a great job of sorting through all the possible confusing scenarios with everyone having a role and redirections possible in multiple ways.

I bought the yellow and red cargo trains. My daughter likes them, but mostly takes the roof off the little cars that came with 7939 to use as blankets for the minifigs when they go to sleep. I did not buy the passenger train as it simply didn't seem like nearly as interesting of a set.

Thanks for the pass, def! This is what worried me about you. You called me out explicitly on this in the day 2 thread and no one else had explicitly said anything like that. Thing is, I had no idea that you had a vig kill, and figured with Wully as SK that there wouldn't be anyone else capable of taking me out. I figured if I wasn't going to make it through the night, it'd be Wully. That said, I was still pretty stunned to get a "You is all dead!" pm from def that night! Wuntin - would you have sided with scum had we openly contacted you on day 2 to ask for it? I thought about it briefly, but figured it'd just get me killed. When I was killed anyway, it struck me more as a worthy gamble. I thought things were going well for scum at the time, though. :(

Yes, and we would've gotten away with it if it wasn't for you meddling kids! I think Scooby Doo mafia is in order!

Chromeknight made the final call on that since he was PM'ing a bunch of you. Going back through our writeboard, on day 2 we had 8 people on our list to consider: Master Hale - we weren't worried about him due to his lack of participation to that point Wully - Serial Killer Zam/Voltana - Zam had told Chrome he was investigator, which we had no reason not to believe at that point, although I wondered if it was really Voltana. Either way, we figured neither were the doctor and we wanted a Town result on me that night (which we got!), so we didn't want to block investigator Cecilie was the kill target for us Dragus - who we'd blocked day 1, so couldn't block again That left Yulie, Skip, and Carrots. I was worried about Yulie as the most dangerous of the three of you since she was targeting us the most, and we had agreed to it, but at somepoint Wully told Chrome in PM that he might target Yulie. It seems that Skip was someone Chrome had been talking to Wully about as well, so that left you. We didn't really have any idea you were the doctor at that point, though. Had we targeted Yulie as originally planned, I'd have survived, but Cecilie would have, too!