Shadows

I very specifically can't give mine away or get rid of it. It's typical for an inventor to be able to give one away, but mine is literally part of my character. I don't even have the option to not use it.

Has he specifically claimed that?

I had to investigate the second person to make sure they weren't the cult leader anyway and as a townie, it's still my job to do anything I can to find the scum at the same time. I may not have a specific ability to do so, but if I can help do it indirectly, how could I pass that up?

In this case, yes. Why do I have a very specific investigation if the same result could come from a normal one? I think it could mean that the cult leader would appear town to a town investigator. It's the same question I have about the vests, I have one because someone is out to get me, why does he unless he's in the same situation, and if so, who is out to get him?

I took it as them assuming Matilda was targeting Bunsen since they were all in the same place and Matilda couldn't be targeting them. I believe you confirmed that people see other people in their actions, didn't you? Oh, and while I'm commenting, I will put this out there. If I am given the opportunity, I plan to investigate you tonight to clear up my only remaining doubts about you. I also find the existence of multiple vests to be suspicious, as would like to confirm that you aren't the cult leader, which seems like a fair concern given that similarity in our roles. I encourage anyone with the ability to watch or otherwise confirm my action to do so and report back tomorrow. Assuming I'm given that opportunity, of course.

It does have limited uses and it doesn't effect lynches, so it isn't too far off. Plus it's hard to judge anything based on what seems overpowered or unbalanced when we don't know all of the other factors involved. I'm still trying to figure out what the cult leader has available to them, it could be a case of two overpowered roles cancelling each other out. I just don't have any way to know. The difference is that by then, the people I told were people I knew weren't in it and even if they ended up scum (which I knew one couldn't be), they had as much reason to help me as the town, the cult is an equal threat to both in my eyes.

I knew the person hidden behind wasn't scum, my investigation told me the hider wasn't cult, and then investigated the person hidden behind to confirm the same thing, leaving both as town to me. I think that's what you're saying and it's definitely what I'm saying. It was mentioned at the same time as I was told I had forgotten my lunch as I rushed out. I consider it related to lunch since it seemed like not getting one was related to getting the vest. I was told I couldn't give it away or get rid of it, so it differs from lunch in that way as well. I had it from the beginning, it was not given to me. I have no way to know if that's true or not and I have to question why you would do such a thing, it doesn't seem particularly wise to talk about with people you couldn't know to trust so early.

I don't actually meatshield, historically. Obviously this ventures into metagaming territory, but I don't believe in meatshielding except as a side effect of usurping. So, unless you want to speculate that Matilda was the scum boss and I created this entire scenario involving so many other people just to get her killed, it isn't possible. For that to work, everyone involved would have to be scum and willing to reveal themselves just to kill their own boss. That's even crazier sounding than my poor role. You need to read it again, you have it backwards, which is understandable because it isn't a role we commonly see here. as opposed to In other words, if I had investigated Bunsen, I would have also gotten results for Beaker as well, but by investigating Beaker, I only got his (and even that only works because my investigation can't be avoided, as opposed to a normal one that would have yielded no result). I still had to investigate Bunsen to get his result, which then told me he should be town and able to be trusted. We'll see that tomorrow with the results on Matilda. Yep, so I've explained again.

My investigation is to find the cult leader, so using it on them was the easiest way to confirm them as town and therefore make their claims believable. I'm not sure I'm understanding the question, so if this doesn't answer you, please ask again. I don't know that the cult leader has the same qualities, I'm just assuming it. As for two vests, I told Oscar about mine before anyone ever openly claimed it, so I can only confirm that one exists. If two are suspicious, you'd have to look at the other one as actually being suspicious since it was revealed after mine. That said, I do actually believe it exists, I just wonder why. I understand why I was given one, I don't understand why another exists. This game of life seems to be full of mysteries.

Nope, town. If I can find the cult leader, the rest of my life would be spent as a simple member of the town. I assume I would lose my investigation action, since it would no longer have a purpose, and that would leave me with nothing but my vest, if I still had it at the time. I'm fairly sure I can, I was never told otherwise. If I've read everything correctly, we have 2 investigators and I'm absolutely open to that.

If Beeker is my first target and Bunsen is my second, yes. You know I don't follow your codenames. The first one told me they hid behind the second, which told me that the second couldn't be scum, so my confirmation that they weren't cult cleared them in my eyes. Thus "town result". I have no reason to believe that the cult can't kill, yet you just declared they can't? Do you have some kind of inside knowledge that even I don't? I don't see any possible way to be sure of that, any more than I see where we can be sure that the day kills are a vig and not the scum taking out unlikely-to-be-protected townies. Why would I get a vest if they can't kill? It's why I've worried about the day kills. Still, it's true that I'm not that worried about the scum, they're in as much trouble as we are if the cult grows too much and I think they understand that, Matilda certainly did when I told her, though she obviously never admitted to being scum. No, I am not a scum psychiatrist. What the hell kind of role would that be, you can't cure scum... Well, I'll give you that one, the day killer is either a vig or the cult somehow because Matilda was certainly scum. I feel my celebration is a little dampened by my own situation today, but at least this is good news.

There seems to be a certain amount of confusion surrounding the day, so instead of relying on relaying messages through PMs and risking more confusion, I'll just lay it all out for you here and you can decide. There is a cult, I guarantee this. I have the ability to investigate and determine if someone is in the cult. On night 1, I investigated someone who came back with a "not cult" result. The weird part of the situation was that the investigation happened in an odd place, not their home, so I thought I could possibly use my role to help the town more if I also tried to determine what they were doing. As much as I am supposed to focus on the cult, there's no reason not to catch scum with it, if possible. I wrote and they immediately told me that they were the hider, which was not a role I knew much about, so I looked it up and learned that the person they were hiding behind was unlikely to be scum, if they were telling the truth. To confirm that, I wrote the second person asking for information and eventually they claimed day investigator. It all seemed a little too convenient for me. The first person also indicated that during their hiding, they saw Matilda who seemed suspicious to them. I took the opportunity to ask the second person to investigate her and they came back with a scum result. Seeing that it could all be a trick, I used my night investigation on the second person and discovered that they were town by process of elimination, not a direct town result. This is where I explained things poorly to Oscar and what seems to have caused a lot of the confusion. I "got a town result" because I already knew the second person couldn't be scum if the first was a hider and now I knew they weren't in the cult. Is that 100%? No, but it's as close as I'm going to get in my role, and given that I had caught Matilda in a lie when I contacted her about the whole thing, I believe it's true. Her lie was related to lunch, which I think Oscar has already explained enough that there's no point doing it again. As Oscar knows for a fact, I have a disposable bulletproof vest. It provides me with a certain amount of protection against killers. If the town is going to be stupid and kill me (honestly, it would be stupid, but I can understand it given the amount of confusion), lynch me, the day killer, whatever alignment they are, can't. The reason I've been so focused on the day killer is because of the possibility that they could be part of the cult. I have way of knowing that, but the odd deaths looked like someone trying to kill quiet townies, something I would imagine the cult would do in hopes of outnumbering us quickly, which is how they win, by killing/converting the entire town and outnumbering the scum. Literally, they're enough of a threat to both sides that whatever happens today, I hope you will all take it seriously enough that you try to stop them, whichever side you're on. Which brings us to the jailer. I wasn't even informed that anything had been done to me, so this came as a complete surprise. If I understand it correctly, I'm at least partially immune from negative town actions, the same way I was immune from the hider being able to hide from me. I asked for a clarification on that and never really got one, but the situation with the jailer fits what I've had to fill in myself via theory and assumption. If my theory is right, the cult leader and I have mirroring roles, they probably have a vest and are partially immune from actions. The idea being that a normal investigator can't find them because of the immunity, so I exist for that purpose. I doubt I'm immune from investigations, however, so if someone wants to do that instead of just killing me, that would be fine. At this point, I'm fully exposed, so I'm probably as good as dead unless the right people are being blocked and I have no idea who they are yet. Clearly someone is doing something right with the blocks or we'd have seen more killings, and as the jailer has confirmed via the voice of god (something I didn't expect), I wasn't blocked so you know I'm not the killer at least. What a mess. This is not at all how I expected to eventually reveal the situation. It all comes back to the stupid lunches. That said, I would imagine that anyone without a lunch has some kind of important role and that role could be of any alignment, so I would suggest looking back and giving some consideration to anyone who has claimed not to have one (or has been shown not to via some other method). Not sure if I'm leaving anything out, except that the day investigator, despite Oscar's claim above, has given no indication of doubt to me whatsoever and is insistent that the result against Matilda is right. I still don't trust that the vig is a vig for a number of simple reasons, but if they'll take her out, you'll have confirmation that the day kills aren't the scum at least. As for me, lynch me if you must, but I am honestly worried that it will leave you with absolutely no way to find the cult leader, and I assure you, the cult is real. With this being day 3, I assume they have managed a conversion by now, but it's only the leader who matters (unless this goes on for a few more days and they start to manipulate the vote). That's all I've got, I think I explained everything, I know I tried to explain it all to Oscar but see where I wasn't clear enough on one point and for some reason, that's the one point that gets pounded into the ground until everything I've tried to do to help is thrown out the window.

The good thing is that there must be pitchforks around here.

There are good reasons to ask first, and better reasons not to just expose everything we know immediately, it isn't always that helpful.

Both, and your next comment is why this isn't happening here.

I'll regret this, but there is no way I can justify exposing some of that here. Shall we go to a private, but short conversation now?

As I said, started without one. The same message you gave on day 1. As I said back then, it would be a good way for a townie to present information without as much risk, but I never got the opportunity. I was apparently in a rush.

Started without one. I have a feeling it's more common than anyone wanted to admit, thinking it looked bad. Since it was specifically stated that I had forgotten it, I assumed it was to balance other the rest of my role and likely that people who had weak/no actions were given something to work with.

Wouldn't scum subtly encourage spreading the vote to make it completely impossible to analyse a vote that failed and save one of their own? You're not really making sense there.

Some reason I shouldn't respond to you when you're the one discussing something that I had already said should be a primary concern for the day, the daytime kills? Especially when you're not open to a real possibility and admitted to thinking you were influencing the "vig" who has killed two townies so far, something you seem to want to justify as good. It's a little scummy, but it's more jesus-y, both of which megabluck us over in the long run, as anyone with history here knows. She ended up town, it wasn't helpful. If we kill everyone who doesn't come around to answer questions, we're going to run out of townies and lose without the scum even having to do anything. I'd like to avoid that, but that's just me and doesn't seem to fit your mindset, so it must be wrong. It could be because of the number of these nonsense statements you make. Oh, and right in the question itself... See what I mean?

I'm not sure we got anything good enough out of it, I'll have to hear some analysis to prove that point. To me, losing even dead weight needs to come with some obvious positive return when you're in a situation where every body counts. That, on the other hand, is good news if the day kills are the vig, which is still uncertain to me, but entirely possible. So yes, that does sound like a decent plan at this point. Will you be sharing those findings soon so that anyone with information that might help can step forward before voting begins? Do we have some proof that there isn't a day protector? It would seem incredibly unbalanced to imagine that any side could have a killer without the other having a way to defend against it, wouldn't it? Even the usual poisoning deaths come as a result of a night action and can be stopped, it seems very odd to assume these can't. Easier isn't always right, but I hope it is in this case. Unless it's a conversion, the most overused action in this game of life. And I'm always suspicious of anyone who wants us to believe something we can't be certain of to the extent that they call keeping an open mind "trying to confuse," so we're even there. All I want to do is consider all of the possibilities. So far, our two day deaths have been townies. When we score a scum that way, I'll feel a little more secure that it's a vig, and even then the possibility of a serial killer exists. Speaking of overused actions.

Yes! One scum turned to doggy kibble. Pity about Jane. If what we're seeing in the day is our vig, that's two mistakes, let's be extra careful today. I'm still not sure how we know that isn't the scum or a serial killer, especially since we're not seeing any night kills. I think that's one of the things we need to address today. For now, let's just be happy we got one right and see if we can learn from it.

It's true, but that's because they tend to be confusing (and whenever I'm in one, we're both megablocking town and it all goes to hell. ). This one seems a lot better than usual and actually centers around what sounds like an interesting conversation that I hope we can hear a response to. I see no reason for anyone to need to know who the killer is, and even if you told them, it wouldn't prove anything, so why bother asking? That's pretty damn scummy looking. I can't believe I have to thank you for presenting a potentially useful play for once. Don't go crazy with it, ok?

It seems a lot more reasonable when looked at all at once. The one thing I'm noticing in this situation is that things get very volatile quickly and a certain amount of logic goes out the window. Thanks for the post, it helped a lot. That's just not helping...

Like anybody reads the rules. Do you need some dog beer for that oinking of yours?