KotZ

Yes please. I think this is important if we go the sci-fantasy route. Some people will lean more into fantasy, some will lean more into a somewhat harder sci-fi, and a way to balance those in abilities would be good.

I see both points, that proficiencies with specific actions can get confusing, but if we are adding in a bunch of spells, it's similar amount of work. I think the big issue with proficiency ability/actions is the baggage from Heroica 1.0 and the class structure (at least for me). When I had to run battles, I had to open up dozens of tabs with every class and then roll, and then see what the roll was, calculate that, etc. I think that's where I'm apprehensive on specific abilities (although I do like them), and while not speaking for WBD, I think that might be his thoughts too. That being said, proficiency/action ability is a great way for people to do things and feel like they grow. In H1, we knew that spellcaster classes were limited. With what H2 seems to be shaping up to be, anyone can cast spells as long as they have at least the first level of a proficiency. That's perfectly fine, imo. With the proficiencies tied to actions, I think we just have to make sure each action/proficiency is very clear and leave little room to interpretation. Then, when the actions are being used, the skill check/dice pool comes into play. I think it's the best of both worlds as long as things are explained clearly. In the case of items and effects, I think there should be items that can do similar effects to spells and abilities, but at a very reduced capacity. If this makes sense, I think the more defined (maybe say clearer) rules are, the more room there will be for people to play around, especially when people get a hang of things.

I like these sugestions, especially for Spirit. Now, would Spirit be a starting attribute, or would it unlock after purchasing a magic-based proficiency? Also, the proficiencies and descriptions save some interesting ideas, like demoralize. I'm guessing that's a way to cause effects, like items would?

I think your idea on combat, with the vitality points and dice pool is pretty good. It's definitely going to require playtesting though. For magic and spells, what if players could purchase spells?

I think we're starting to get closer to quite a few of those.

Oh no. My thoughts go out to TPRU's family.

I think that’s what H1 and H2 basically will be: complete rip offs and merging of various systems. Not that I disagree. For cantrips, I think something similar is where the dialogue is being led to, although I haven’t played DND in ages (shout out to CaptJohnPaul) so I’m not too familiar with how magic works in that system. As for your effects post, I think Flipz alluded to this. I really like your idea of frozen to melting to burning as an example for frozen to fire. I wonder if it might be too complicated, but if it could be used, I’m all in on cross “class” and such combos.

Ah ok, those proficiencies make sense. As for rest and balance, I definitely think something like a bedroll would help, as would that Survival proficiency I gave a thought for. It might also be up to the QMs to make sure there are rest spots available? Maybe the spell levels you mentioned earlier determine how often they can be cast? I'd say we could just have a list of combat spells and noncombat spells, like a flame to give light, etc.

What's the difference between Inntimidation and persuasion, and athletics and acrobatics? I understand official definitions might not be concrete, but I guess just a basic idea/difference. As for limitations on magic, maybe similar to Skill, Smarts, etc? It's an upgradeable attribute with similar price as the others, and anyone can use it when they unlock the Arcana proficiency or similar? That way instead of an automatic +1 ether eveyr level, it will slow it down and players can choose if they really want to be that magical heavy person, jack of all trades, etc. If we want to go a completely different route for ether, maybe we have a system that pulls on HP instead? Although that seems like a better fit for a specific blood magic spell, which I would be totally down for.

Maybe 3? Depending on how many proficiencies are available at the beginning of the game.

Absolutely. Just a lack of pieces at the moment. I'm hoping I can have this section completed, battlements, roof, and interior included, by the end of May, or mid-June at the latest.

Question on Smarts attribute: 1 new point allows 1 new Proficiency: Is that of a new different proficiency, or the same tree? I like the magic idea.

WBD already mentioned spread sheets, but if you want to host photos, Brickshelf? Yes, please no lots of numbers. Yay on the movement/targets. Increasing cost for everything makes sense, but we can't let it get out of hand like H1.0. The dice pool is starting to make more sense now, I've never used it before.

Ah ok, that makes sense.

I like it, especially the row idea. Simple, visual, and explains a lot. Question for that: moving. Could a PC move to a free spot if a fellow quest member was in the way? Does that cost movement points or an action? Also, diagonals valid targets? I agree with CMP's post of increasing damage. Another question is if there is leveling, where you can spend points into attributes, what happens when people reach such high success numbers it's essentially 100% guaranteed to be a success? Are more dice added to the pool?

It's you! Rank instead of Level? Although that still has the baggage. The problem with dropping it entirely is I think people do like seeing how far their character has come at a glance. Although, BotBS seems to do this well, of not having levels. I'm not sure about the others, like GOH, but I think it's similar there. Agree on the EXP/spending thing. I was thinking half points be lowest, but 1/3 makes sense. Was there confusion early on with rows? I joined a bit after Heroica 1.0 started. Blank visual templates definitely should be a thing with however the system works. As for the generic builds, I agree. Important buildings, like a Hall, faction buildings, etc. absolutely should have generic photos to be used. When I didn't have my collection, I used a lot of LDD, which is a great tool, but doing anything like Mafia games or Heroica is a maor pain. Building contests definitely would be fun and helpful in expanding the game's lore and interest. So Status is negative effects? A single slot seems like a good way to keep enemies from doing too much damage to a Hero for balance, and vice versa. Stat Buffs and debuffs also seem helpful. And yes, effects were horribly broken. Regarding spell power, that's why I left it out of the test quest I posted earlier. Although I think it would need names/actual spells/biotics to use.

Somewhat big update today, got some good stuff done, see below. As you can see, some more rockwork, and plants have been laid down. It's still a bit flat right now, but I think I'll adjust it when I get more pieces for this area. Still quite aways to go. Support beams have been put in! Sadly I didn;t get any photos of that part of the build. Set 11005 came real in handy with this build, providing a lot of support parts, and there's a bunch of green I haven't used yet for landscaping. The door is just there for placement, I think I'll do one of the more "wooden" Harry Potter/old castle doors for that. Between the two sections of 2x3 things will be a furnace. Now let's get down to the ground floor. You can see to the right some landscaping. In the center. In the center is the beginning of the other rockwork that will be scaled back on the next baseplate. Basically, the great hall will be the highest part (at least on rocks), and everything else will be a bit lower aside from towers. The tan is to be a path that will be formed. You can't see it on the first picture, but there's a technic 2x1 to allow a technic pin. Basically, I'm going to measure up the next baseplate with the current one to know where I'll have the next section, like a modular. Here is most of the wall being built, along with the bridge to get from the great hall to the rest of the castle. Those brong round 1x1s will be logs for fire. Some tables for the guests to eat at. My only problem is the doors will have to open outwords, and there's only a space of two studs for people to walk, but oh well. Decorations will be added eventually. A completed view after the bridge has been connected. Ignore the AT-AP and the City vehicle in the background. Thoughts so far?

Ah gotcha. The limiting could make sense. Then perks/abilities would be what can help increase your defense/power? Definitely a better idea. Ah ok. I like the idea of DM picking the first round, etc. That's a better way by far than Heroes first, then enemies and free hits, etc. As for levels/battle, perhaps every battle won is a half point, and then quest rewards are up to the QM. The reward could be a full level (I would suggest no more than 1 level as a reward), money, etc. Maybe not even include the level bit if they don't want. Chromeknight has a great idea here of swapping stances, etc. Health kits being in the back is fantastic, perhaps any "defense" item like health, shield repair, etc would be forced to be in the back.

But what about ranged weapons like bows, etc.? Wouldn't those logically still deal full power at either row?

I think regarding "Weak" and such might be arguing semantics, unless I'm reading you wrong (there's a good chance of that). I think that while it's definitely complex, it can help reduce exorbitantly high SP. Regarding ranges, I would say have what row enemies are on to know who is where, it's somewhat still the old system, just with an extra row and limitations. I do agree the limitations are complex. Should row be gotten rid of altogether? That was a concern I had when I was typing it up, the attribute system. Any suggestions at adjustments? Maybe attributes are what you decide when you start? Maybe we get rid of them all together and go just straight proficiencies? The only issue I have then is when someone levels is regarding their HP: do we completely remove that and no HP gain ever, or to we keep it? I would say maybe adjust the above system to you get 1 point every level, and a certain number to unlock a proficiency. You can then decide to save that point for a specific proficiency, or add it to your Maximum HP. So two people at Level 10 for example could have very different HP/class builds but still the same points. Maybe it's 2 skill points for proficiencies and 2 for HP. The "Class" idea is more of a way to have someone start with something, that they can easily spec out of down the line. I know someone mentioned the idea of a respec option, which I completely agree with. The mini-class idea also is a way for this test quest to see balance. I took the proficiencies from your earlier post (thanks for that), and renamed one of them and removed others that might not be useful for this test quest I had in mind. This is where I found Skill and Smart to be the most useful, not for rolls but for expanding your proficiency ability, but it does have the same issue with the old system. I think the combat vs "regular" skills is mostly fine, especially if skill and smart is adjusted. Many games have passive and active abilities, so that's where I was going with some combat and some "regular" skills/traits. Arcana/Tech/Wisdom were definitely the three I was wanting to playtest, although combining them into one proficiency might be easier. Basically it was a way to have space magic and tech, allowing players to decide for their characters like a healer or caster/wizard was more tech based or more magic based. Some thing, just different explanations almost. Keep them equal but allow players to get into their characters for opportunity for tons of diverse characters. Maybe make initiative a d6? Or should everything be on d20? And Heroica 1.0 definitely has a swingy way of doing things, so I figured making everything a bit more even with those rolls would help. I'l be honest, I haven't played D&D proper in years, so I'm a bit confused on how to make enemies target PCs. The shield system restore came from someone else (Zepher or CMP maybe?), and it's definitely Mass Effect like. Definitely agreeing with Kintobor, that levels should be tracking points. See my above corrections/thoughts on that from what WBD said. The only issue with not having logarithmic is having lots of people be super powers in a short time. Then that would result, I think, in making more proficiencies, both horizontally and above Level IV, which I don't totally mind, but then there could be balance issues between a character with a Level IX proficiency and a Level II in the same proficiency. Factor in WP inevitably rising as players go on quests, and then we're screwed. That's why I think logarithmic starting at 10 and only gaining have experience from then on after a fight is fair. Players won't be stuck with Level 33.33 etc.

Alright, since I've had a bunch of free time the past two days, I've come up with a bit of a mishmash system taking from ideas that others have come up with on here, modifying them to an extent. Below are the synopsis, "reward," PCs and info that I would be using for this Test Quest. Four people would be preferable, but I think I could do fewer if necessary. If this needs pre-approval, let me know. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Infiltration - A Heroica 2.0 Test Quest Four mercenaries are hired by a mysterious businessman to infiltrate a high-security building and steal a data card. Reward: 10 credits for each party member PCs Landon, Elf - Soldier Eva, Human- Hacker (rogue) Igorat, Alien - Healer Thrane, Alien - Caster (Wizard/tech) Weapons and Armor/Shields Energy: Damages Elemental Armor at 100% WP, damages other types at 50% WP Kinetic: Damages Energy Armor at 100% WP, damages other types at 50% WP Elemental: Damages Kinetic Armor at 100% WP, damages other types at 50% WP Energy Armor: Weak to Kinetic Weapons Kinetic Armor: Weak to Elemental Weapons Elemental Armor: Weak to Energy Weapons Weapon Types are categorized as Long Range, Short Range, and Melee. Long Range can only be used from the back lines to target mid or back lines. Short Range can be in the middle row and target Close and Mid lines. Melee attacks can only be used from the front to target the front. Reach weapons like polearms can only be used from the front but can target front or mid. Magic/tech can be used on any row, but it can only target the row that is its opposite, e.g. Long targets Melee, Short targets Short, Melee targets Long. Character Creation Starting Points: 10 points, 2 Proficiencies (Class takes up one automatically, second is player choice), 5 HP Proficiencies cost: 1 point for Level I, 2 for Level II, etc. Attributes (Skill and Smart) cost: 2 point HP cost: 1 point Skill functions as Initiative, Smart as a way to help with dice pool rolls. Below are the difficulty ratings. A dice pool would be using 10 dice. Simple: 1 Successes Skilled: 3 Successes Difficult: 5 Successes Impossible: 7 Successes A QM would rate a specific encounter needing a dice pool. The player would then roll. The Smart attribute would then help change the amount of successes needed to successfully complete the task, such as Persuasion. Every 4 Smart points equals 1 die in the pool. Proficiencies These help adjust the rigid class system into more freeform style with player choice, and not penalizing them when they switch a class. Proficiency levels go from I-IV. To reach a new level after Level I, you must have a combined Attribute score of 4x the level. Ex, to reach Level II, a character must have a combined score of 8 in Skill and Smart. For example, that could be 8 all in Skill, 2 in Skill and 6 in Smart, or any other combination. Short Range Weapons (Pistols, submachine guns, throwing weapons, spells/wands/staves); +1 for weapon power when using Long Range Weapons (Rifles, snipers, bows); +1 for weapon power when using Artillery (Cannons, RPGs, counted as Long Range in combat, takes a turn to load, but powerful); +1 for weapon power when using Blade Weapons (energy sabers, swords, pikes, axes); +1 for weapon power when using Blunt Weapons (Clubs, bats, nunchuks); +1 for weapon power when using Tech (can be used on computers for hacking, repair items/shields and increases chances of success on repairs); +1 to Smart Stealth (Decreases detection, can sneak); A Dice pool is needed. Arcana (Increases Skill when using Magic); +1 Skill Investigation (Increases chance of discovering things); A Dice pool is needed Wisdom (Can be used for Smart); +1 Smart Piloting (Increases level of ship able to pilot; Everyone can pilot personal ships and speeders, but cruisers, freighters, etc need higher level) Medicine (Increases chance of healing an ally during combat); A Dice pool is needed Survival (Regains Health outside of combat at a 10% increase) Persuasion (Increases chance of success to influence NPCs); A Dice pool is needed. Now let’s take a look at what a character sheet might look like at the start of the game. Test Subject Level 1 Human Healer HP: 5/5 Skill: 3 Smart: 3 Proficiencies: Medicine I, Wisdom I As you can see, Test Subject added no HP, spent 6 points on Skill Attribute and 4 points on Smart, as two points are needed for an attribute. Since Test Subject is a Healer, he automatically starts with the Medicine I Proficiency, and then he spent his other proficiency in Wisdom, resulting in +1 to Smart. Combat Combat is based on initiative now. Highest roll then lowest for battle order. After QM rolls dice for initiative, taking into account Skill modifiers, and the results are shared, players choose their targets. Enemies that are not targeted will perform a Free Hit, similar to the old Heroica model. SP is back, but in a modified format, being now Shields attached to armor. Shields can be depleted during combat, which opens up a character’s HP. Specific weapon types can affect specific armor types more effectively, as stated up above in the Weapons and Armor/Shields section. Players can mix and match armor types. Not all enemies have Shields. Some have one type, two, or possibly even three. Regarding mixing and matching, player stats will show multiple bars with each shield. Weapons automatically target the most effective shield first, and then work their way down once that shield is depleted. Below is our example of Test Subject’s stat sheet at the beginning of combat. Test Subject Level 1 Human HP: 5/5 Skill: 3 Smart: 3 Energy Shield: 3/3 Proficiencies: Medicine I, Wisdom I Equipment: Technowand (3 WP; short range, elemental), Plasma Armor (SP: 3; energy armor) Now let’s look at fighting. Say Test Subject’s leisurely stroll to the disco was interrupted by a mugger. Let’s say Mugger has no Skill. After the roll of the d20, we see both have rolled a 7. Add in Test Subject’s 4 skill, he arrives at 11 and makes the first move. He can ATTACK, DODGE, CAST/HEAL, USE AN ITEM or RUN. First, the combatants are arranged in Long, Short, or Melee rows. The Weapons section details what can be used to target what. Moving rows does not take a turn, and neither do switching weapons. Swapping equipment, or giving an item to a character, does take a turn. Attacking is attacking the enemy target. Dodge is making a move to avoid your target’s attack back on you; a Dice pool is needed. Cast/Heal allows a character to attempt to heal themselves or an ally, repair shields, or use a spell/tech attack. Using an item allows the use of an item in the inventory, as well as swapping equipment or giving something to another character. Running is only possible if an item like a smoke bomb was used to escape. ATTACK Critical Hit: WP Doubled attack Hit: Regular Attack based on WP Miss: No damage to target Miss: No damage to target Damage: PC takes damage from enemy Massive Damage: PC takes double damage CAST/HEAL Critical Cast: WP doubled to repair a shield, cast a spell, or heal a character Cast: Regular cast based on WP Miss: No success Miss: No success Damage: PC takes damage from enemy Massive Damage: PC takes damage from enemy Now let’s get back to the battle. Say Test Subject decides to attack Mugger, but he rolls a 4 and misses. Well, both miss. QM rolls initiative again, and let’s say Test Subject comes out on top. He attacks, and is successful with a Hit. Mugger would end up like this if he was wearing Kinetic armor: Mugger Level 1 Human HP: 5/5 Kinetic Armor: 0/3 Fast forward the battle, and say Test Subject wins. He is then rewarded with a Level up. A Level up equals 1 point being given to the player. The player does not need to spend that point right away, as Attributes for example cost 2 points, as do higher level proficiencies. Players level up by one on Levels 1-9. After Level 10, players gain half experience from battles going forward. This will help reduce players who have played longer from waiting to get to their next point. As Proficiency Levels will cost more as the game goes on, this will also hopefully keep newer players in line with some older players. After the battle, players’ shields will return to full strength, yet their HP does not. HP can only be fixed by healing during battle, health potions, or the best way, resting. NOTE: the Survival Proficiency allows a player to regain health after a battle by 10% of what their overall HP is. Items Items work similarly to how they did in Heroica. Items range from Smoke bombs, to shield repairs kits. Regarding repair kits, these can help players control their shields in case a a caster is down, or one is not in the party. That being said, Repair Kits will only repair a shield by 2 points. This is also the case with health potions. Bombs target one row, unless otherwise stated. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ So this is what it looks like. I think the combat system, while still very heavily based on Heroica's d6 system, I think it allows more options without becoming too complicated or bloated. Of course, this doesn't take into effects, but those made the combat very complicated, and there have been ideas on how to still include them but not too powerful earlier. This is just to be a simple test. Thoughts?

On the test system I'm working on, I'm doing a modified version of your dice pool, which seems like it would be a good fix to the QM discretion. I think the test system won't be too broken, but it's still going to need playtesting and a lot of work. I'm going to post the entire ruleset for it up so everyone can see it as well and decide if they want to play test. I've had a lot of free time at work the past two days.

Yeah, that's why I mentioned faction equipment instead. Just spitballing. As for the percentile, it definitely has more of a DnD flair I think, and as you mentioned the problem is making it not too math heavy, as some QMs (namely me) have issues with math. And then consider the idea of having the proficiency levels, do you add more proficiences or levels? More levels would force nerf a lot if the game continued. I was thinking percentile for combat. Skills could be a simple pass/fail system or up to QM discretion. I'm thinking for a test quest I might not do percentiles, just because I don't feel too confident in how they would work yet.

I'm definitely agreeing with that idea. I could maybe have a small test adventure for three or four people on Sunday at the earliest. I've been working on various ideas for the combat over the past few days.

Yeah, if Bob de Quatre decides to go to Bob, you'll need to change your name.