Limited distribution of 21021

[Lyichir]

This is an unfair statement in the meaning that it is not necessary to tell adults to "collect them all" since it is kind of intrinsic,natural. If you collect something it means you like it a lot and if you like it a lot and you _are_ a collector then it is kind of natural to want to be a "completist". Lego does not need to advertise this to adults like it does to children because that would be,well, childish on their part, after all, they are dealing with adults. If an adult collector is collecting something that s/he likes too much, if s/he does not have a complete collection of this something is most certainly because of money constraints. I wanted to have all 23 30"x40" original James Bond British Quad movie posters but just the first one - Dr. No - costs 25k or more so it is not possible for me to be a completist. I wanted to have all Modular Buildings but with the first 3 costing around 3k or more, it is not possible.

If I had tons of money I would just buy all of them, modular buildings, JB BR Quads and period.

What Lego is doing to the Architecture sets collectors out there is just as much unfair, upsetting and would bring me anger if I was one of them. That is why I say to myself that this "move" by Lego is just evil! That is the word I like.

OK so let me ask this, and I will compare...if you go out and buy 400 packs of baseball cards so you can complete the entire set of cards for a given year, but you are missing card numbers 5 and 21, would you not try to get those cards or would you be happy with the other 794 (there are usually 796 in most Topps sets)? I contend that you would want to complete the set with 5 and 21 so you can then go through your set if you like, or just leave it in the box or whatever...keep in mind I am talking collecting the cards to make the set, not just go buy the complete set as they sell...

In the same manner then, if you are a huge fan of the Architecture set, why would you NOT want to add the Lego House and Marina sets to your collection to keep it complete unless you couldn't afford it. It's more the principle of making something limited so only a few can get it but putting it into an overall collection thus limiting the ability for all to have the chance to get it. It's asinine logic really but hey I am an American, not a Dane (although I do have Danish ancestors) so maybe this marketing scheme makes sense to Europeans?

This logic that I just stated, is what is hacking off OTW and the rest of us, not that TLG made these, but that they stuck it in a collection that we now either have to skip the mortgage payment to get or just do without and have holes in the collection. It's human nature to want to complete the set for most of us.

TLG marketing needs to consider it's customers and trust me, the AFOL's drive more money in this line than anyone else, and say ok, for this line, do we need a product manager to drive the line forward in deciding marketing policy, building choices, etc...just like any other business has product managers for the most part. Trust me, when LG goes out to sell washing machines, their is a product manager in the US and one in Europe and all that which decide what products are needed and how this goes. It's that way in any corporation.

So we have the TLG corp deciding to do something that is outside the lines here...that is the main issue and I agree with OTW, I don't care for it. Feel free to make it, but just don't lump it in with the Architecture line. We are not blowing a gasket, actually it's a pretty valid discussion, one that shows TLG has lost some competence in understanding it's market and product when dealing with a line like this and who the customer is that is buying the sets.

The problem is that there was never any choice between this set being in the Architecture theme or not. You look at it and you can tell right off the bat that it was clearly designed from the ground up as an Architecture model. The choice is "the set existing" and "the set not existing". This is what I hate about a lot of completionists: they would rather that everyone go without a set if they personally can't obtain it (which, as I pointed out, is not the case for the majority of AFOLs, since AFOLs as a rule have a ridiculous number of options for obtaining hard-to-find sets). As for the collectible nature of Architecture sets, I was arguing against the quoted poster's argument that they were limiting distribution of a single set "from a series Lego is encouraging us to collect". Lego isn't doing squat to encourage you to collect the series, any more than they're doing for Star Wars, or City. You are personally choosing to collect the theme because you like it, which is totally fine, so long as you don't start to get the idea into your heads that you deserve special treatment, and that Lego adding another set to the series that might be slightly harder for you to obtain as a hard working, internet-savvy adult is "evil" or betrayal.

Out of curiosity, what do you all think about the upcoming Lego House set? I hear that one's only going to be available in Billund: an even more restrictive release scheme that, from what I've read, will still in fact be branded with the Architecture theme.

Edited January 1, 2014 by Lyichir

[Off the wall]

Edited previous response to this 'no comment'.

Edited January 1, 2014 by Off the wall

[AndyC]

1) It's an Architecture set, because, well it's Architecture and branding it anything else would just be weird and pointless. People who like the Architecture line would still want it - see the GB Olympics minifgures, which most treated as part of the normal Minifigures line, despite different branding or the change in branding on the Modular Buildings, people still collect them as one set.

2) It's limited edition for some business reason. Whether it's an expectation of low sales or restrictions placed on TLG by the licensor is something we'll never know.

3) If you really want it, it can be obtained via third party channels. As demonstrated by the fact many have bought it.

I'm not sure what you imagine the "solution" is. Branding it differently won't work, because people will still see it as being one of the Architecture models. Widening the distribution isn't necessarily possible and even if it is, are you really suggesting TLG make more than they could sell just so it's easier for you to buy one? And, in any case, those keen enough to buy it will do so.

[rollermonkey]

I still say that some transparency to the decision process would be nice.

Releasing a limited minifigure or polybag as part of an event such as SDCC or NYCC is something I can understand.

Selling an exclusive product only through S@H and official LEGO stores is understandable.

But selling an AFOL targeted set, chosen by worldwide polling, in S@H Korea, Legoland Malaysia and some Singapore locations is just weird.

How does LEGO gain anything from exorbitant reseller markups?

Edited January 2, 2014 by rollermonkey

[Vee]

... The choice is "the set existing" and "the set not existing".

I just disagree with it. The set, as being part of a series, must be available to all or to none.

..: they would rather that everyone go without a set if they personally can't obtain it (which, as I pointed out, is not the case for the majority of AFOLs, since AFOLs as a rule have a ridiculous number of options for obtaining hard-to-find sets).

It is not about NOT being able to obtain it, it is about the FAIR price you are going to pay for it. Why should someone pay 300 bucks for something that should be worth 40? What is Lego creating? Picassos? Lego wants to create something that costs them 20 or less bucks to manufacture and that by giving it some evil exclusivity it will immediately become a 300 dollar set? Evil, evil, evil.

... Lego isn't doing squat to encourage you to collect the series, any more than they're doing for Star Wars, or City...., so long as you don't start to get the idea into your heads that you deserve special treatment, and that Lego adding another set to the series that might be slightly harder for you to obtain as a hard working, internet-savvy adult is "evil" or betrayal.

Lego doesn't need to do squat, collecting is human nature for many and completism is part of collecting for many of these.

Out of curiosity, what do you all think about the upcoming Lego House set? I hear that one's only going to be available in Billund: an even more restrictive release scheme that, from what I've read, will still in fact be branded with the Architecture theme.

An ugly set, just ugly. I can't see anything special in it except for the fact that it will be available exclusively in their home town.

[CopMike]

First - I´ve now posted this question in the Ambassador forum that we use to communicate with TLG about stuff like this. I´ll be back if/when we get some more info.

Second - I´m sorry if any of you feel mocked by me about this issue. I´m just a bit tired of hearing about how unfair the Lego world can be concerning where/when sets are released and therefore sometimes makes "whitty" comments about it, which not always come out as in the funny sarcastic way I ment it.

And I´ve myself given up a long time ago trying to get all the sets I would have liked directly from TLG. There´s always special/limited stuff coming out that I´m in the wrong part of the world or to late to get. Like the 40082 and 40083 this year for example.

And I have also gone the third party road and got this set, I hope it arrives soon.

[Off the wall]

Thanks, CopMike. Appreciate your efforts. Unfortunately, I think TLGs takeaway from all of this will be that there is a sizable group who will rationalize away what ever mistakes TLG makes.

End of discussion for me. Hey, Vee, thanks. You get it. Along with a few others who I've PM'd.

[paanjang16]

As much as I wanted this 21021, I got a feeling due to its limited availability I might never be able to get it. What a pity actually, since I live in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia and would love to have an architecture set which is more closer to home. Legoland M'sia is too far and not worthwhile for me to head down to Johor to get 1 set.

In fact give a thought for people like us in Malaysia where we never have any Shop at Home nor official Lego shops in our region, thus we missed out on sets like the Mearsk train, Opera House, Ewok Village and most depressing of them all the 41999 Technic special. Plus we have no VIP, get our sets late and pay a price higher than Europe.

My point is that TLG should really stop or limit all these limited edition nonsense. It is getting too far with the SDCC limited edition figures, Lego marvel game pre-order bonus (again, not applicable for my region), Shop at home exclusives (Maersk Train, Opera House), 41999 Technic and now the Marina Bay Sands sets. I would be extremely pissed if TLG made the Petronas Twin Towers Architecture set a "limited edition" which even a fellow Malaysian like me would have trouble getting.

If TLG want to create an artificial shortage of a product they should very well be aware that pirates and imitators will try to fill that gap in the market. Look in the "Fake CMF" thread and you see SDCC figures like Green Lantern, Bizarro etc being sold by imitators. As for the Petronas Twin Towers set there is already a set by a clone brick company to fill in the void by Wange. So time will tell if there is a Marina bay sands knock-off due to the high demand. I even see there are even Shell Ferrari knock offs!

[Vee]

... In fact give a thought for people like us in Malaysia where we never have any Shop at Home nor official Lego shops in our region, thus we missed out on sets like the Mearsk train, Opera House, Ewok Village and most depressing of them all the 41999 Technic special. Plus we have no VIP, get our sets late and pay a price higher than Europe...

AFAIK, Brazil also has no official Lego shop, no S@H, no VIP, and all Legos sold there are very expensive because of this and because our government taxes too much consumer products and specially imports. If you take a look at the countries where Lego has a bigger presence you will see that Lego does not like 3rd World countries which kind of makes sense because Lego is an expensive plastic toy and they would probably no sell as much as Lego would like in these countries, although I don't understand why not have a Lego presence in Sao Paulo city, for instance, that is a huge and full of wealthy people metropolis.

Anyway, not having Lego in easy reach in Brazil could be seen as a blessing actually. See my situation: our first Lego ever was bought in 2004. Why? Because we moved to the US around this time so we actually bought it here, in the US, where prices are "good". While I was raised and lived my first many decades in Brazil, I never had a Lego and I didn't miss it, we had lots of non-Lego nice toys in the 70's and 80's to play with.

Now I am an AFOL living in the US, the consumer's paradise land.

[Herky]

A follow up question then, pertaining to this site...we have the buy/sell/trade section of this site, (you have to have 100 posts though) and I really haven't looked at it, but wouldn't it be such that folks could request from others purchasing and shipping the hard to get sets around the world to them? I would be happy to do that if there was something I knew I could get that others could not. I also collect bobbleheads and am part of a site that we do that one and everyone on the site pays through Paypal and it runs pretty smooth. Could we not help our fellow AFOL's out around the world or have we become so greedy we have to have a 100% markup to sell on ebay? Guess I am naïve in human nature though, I know folks get too greedy, but if I could help out, I would. Big items though, I just don't have the extra cash to just go pick it up and send. But if I had the money ahead of time I could do this...just a thought to throw out there.

[Herky]

OK, I went out and checked out the buy sell trade, wow...not a good place to go if you really want to buy sell or trade...most folks just give you link to their ebay auctions or bricklink stores or tell you to buck up and go buy...doesn't seem to be any real trading and selling/buying going on

[Vee]

I have this thought that buying from those that know what they are selling will never get you a good deal. People that read this forum are mostly Lego collectors, Lego big fans, and as such, they know how much this or that set is valued, how much it is wanted, and so you will never get a good deal from them. If you happen to be fortunate enough to find a John Doe that is not much into Lego and happens to have what you want, then you may get a good deal, because John Doe is not aware of how valuable his set is.

In other words, I don't expect to find good deals in this site, as a rule.

And asking someone to go to someplace and buy something for you and send it to you for a price that would be much "fairer" than the normal street price is like asking this someone to lose money. He or she could do the same thing and sell it for much more so why do it for less?

I am not telling you nobody would do that but chances are that almost nobody would do that, and again, specially here where people know how much Lego sets are worth. A friend would do that... That is what friends are for.

[Off the wall]

Interpretation of real-world architectural landmark The Eiffel Tower in LEGO® bricks

Booklet included with details on design, architecture and history of the tower (English and French languages only. Other languages available for download at LEGO.com/architecture)

Measures over 12” (31cm) high, 4” (11cm) wide and 4” (11cm) deep

Collect the entire Landmark and Architecture series sets

The LEGO® Architecture product line is about celebrating the world of architecture through the medium of the LEGO brick and for all with an interest in design, architecture and history

----------------

The above is copied from the description of the Eiffel Tower that is shown on the US lego.com website.

Please note line 5. Kind of hard to do, eh?????

[Vee]

Touché!

:laugh:

[Lyichir]

Interpretation of real-world architectural landmark The Eiffel Tower in LEGO® bricks

Booklet included with details on design, architecture and history of the tower (English and French languages only. Other languages available for download at LEGO.com/architecture)

Measures over 12” (31cm) high, 4” (11cm) wide and 4” (11cm) deep

Collect the entire Landmark and Architecture series sets

The LEGO® Architecture product line is about celebrating the world of architecture through the medium of the LEGO brick and for all with an interest in design, architecture and history

----------------

The above is copied from the description of the Eiffel Tower that is shown on the US lego.com website.

Please note line 5. Kind of hard to do, eh?????

I stand corrected. But I still fail to see how making a single set from the theme more exclusive is "evil". Some transparency regarding why this set's release is limited would be nice, since I'm sure they have a very good reason for doing so (most likely that the appeal of this set would be more limited, but it's not impossible that it's a matter of the licensor's terms).

[Vee]

I visited the Korean website to see this infamous set on sale. What I found was that its retail price is almost 80 US dollars, which I found already expensive considering it is a set with 600 small pieces (and considering prices usually practiced here in the US). Anyway, what surprised me was that I found that many sets that are regularly sold here in the US are not sold in Korea. I thought that not selling a set in some country was an exception but it seems it is not so much.

When I say "evil" I am actually making a joke to myself, I don't really believe Lego is evil as in a demon that wants to slave us and lead us to bankruptcy, they are just doing business as usual, I understand, but that doesn't mean I have to agree and say Amen to all their decisions.

[rollermonkey]

^Did Korea actually get more in?They'd been out of stock for a while.

[Vee]

It is out of stock which just prove how dumb Lego's decision is, or was.

[MAH4546]

Do we know more about exactly where the set is available? I'll be in Hong Kon and Tokyo soon.

[Off the wall]

Hey, Vee, amazing how some people will cling to a position regardless of the facts. Rationalizing Lego's decision by suggesting 'facts' that, as we used to say in court, aren't in evidence. Or, they'll pull one word out of your comment, ignoring the validity of the comment in general, and make the use of that one word the new issue. I suppose Lego should be happy that they have a loyal following that will invent the facts as needed to support a bad Lego corporate decision.

:-)

Edited January 3, 2014 by Off the wall

[Herky]

Not going to say much else, funny that TLG does state that on their stuff to collect the full line, same thing will happen with Lego House, it's brand incompetence at best. Someone screwed up big time, limited editions are fine, just not in a mass collected line. Will just wait til the next release which is rumored to be Trevi Fountain.

One question how did you log onto Korea's site? I tried and it wouldn't let me.

Also, Eiffel Tower, this build is very wobbly, TLG needs to stick to the block structures IMO.

[Vee]

One question how did you log onto Korea's site? I tried and it wouldn't let me...

Another of Lego's weird incomprehensible thing.

When I tried to log to Korea website, it complained that I could not use my current Lego ID and blah blah blah blah. I tried to log in to other countries and none that I tested complained but Korea's did. You need to log off your current Lego ID, then you will be able to access it as a regular visitor. If you want to buy from it, you will need a specific Korean Lego ID. Probably you will need a Korean bank account and a Korean delivery address.

Korea seems to be very "special" and it is not even the Northern one!

[rollermonkey]

Do we know more about exactly where the set is available? I'll be in Hong Kon and Tokyo soon.

Reports have had people buy it in Hong Kong, but not exactly through what channels. You could try Toys R Us... There was one on Kowloon side inside the mall on the cruise ship terminal pier, which is a pretty convenient location from almost anywhere in the city. I heard of someone buying it from a Japanese eBay reseller, but that doesn't mean it was purchased in Japan. The Kowloon one is now in iSquare, exit R from Tsim Sha Tsui station.

Edited January 3, 2014 by rollermonkey

[Lyichir]

Hey, Vee, amazing how some people will cling to a position regardless of the facts. Rationalizing Lego's decision by suggesting 'facts' that, as we used to say in court, aren't in evidence. Or, they'll pull one word out of your comment, ignoring the validity of the comment in general, and make the use of that one word the new issue. I suppose Lego should be happy that they have a loyal following that will invent the facts as needed to support a bad Lego corporate decision.

:-)

I don't see how speculating that Lego had a motive for releasing the set this way (as opposed to doing it completely differently than they had before for no reason whatsoever) is "inventing facts". I think that if Lego were free to release the set the traditional way and were likely to make more money by doing so, then, well, they would do so. By process of elimination that suggests that either Lego was not free to release the set globally (either because of an agreement with the licensor or for some other, inscrutable reason), or that they did not see the set selling well in the traditional way (either because of the subject's relative obscurity or, again, for some unknowable reason). Like I said, I'd appreciate some transparency from Lego regarding this decision, but failing that all I can do is speculate.

I'm not trying to support a bad decision, but since Lego hasn't made any statement on the matter, and since everyone else seems content with assuming Lego did this for no reason at all, or because they hate their customers, then I suppose it falls on users like me to play devil's advocate.

P.S. I don't appreciate you slighting me in conversation with another member, instead of engaging me directly when you think you see a flaw in my argument. A smiley-face at the end of a post is not enough to mask a bad attitude.

[Off the wall]

I'm dealing with the facts as they exist....as they are known. I'm not very good with 'what if Napoleon had a stealth bomber' type of discussion.

Lego let us vote on what became 21021. It won are vote. They issued it in an architecture series box with an architecture series number. They did not make it available as they have the other 21---- series sets.

I am not going to enter into a discussion that basically requires me to address false premise after false premise after another false premise. Nor will I get into a semantically based debate because someone used the word 'evil''.

The facts are the facts. Others may ask 'what if Napoleon had a stealth bomber'. I'll stick to the facts as known.

Unknown reasons for TLGs decision? Sorry, not going down that road. They are judged by their action and the facts as known.....not by me pulling excuses for them out of thin air and making stuff up based on the latest post to which I'm responding.

And, I refuse to become a shill for TLG. Or, as you call it, a 'devil's advocate'.

:-)

Edited January 3, 2014 by Off the wall