LEGO LotR - general discussion

[Deathleech]

It just seemed like they were putting a lot of effort in to the theme.

Maybe in the beginning with the first waves, but after that it seems like Lego really stopped putting as much effort and resources into the sequential waves. Four sets in each wave compared to the six and seven in the first waves, fewer new molds, lackluster set builds, etc. They also made what seem like a lot of questionable decisions to us. The Mouth of Sauron over the Witch King and the Council of Elrond set over say a Gondor or Balrog set were HUGE issues in a lot of people's eyes that made little to no sense.

[Galactic13]

True, but perhaps they did that thinking that they were going to do one more wave. If I am not mistaken, Warner Bros. tells Lego when they want sets and Lego makes them.

[Robert_88]

They also made what seem like a lot of questionable decisions to us. The Mouth of Sauron over the Witch King and the Council of Elrond set over say a Gondor or Balrog set were HUGE issues in a lot of people's eyes that made little to no sense.

I think the second wave was meant to be more interesting for kids as well but ultimately it was uninteresting for both, kids and AFOLs.

Every time I see a "Pirate Ship Ambush" set in a store I think about the (in)famous "kids love ships" quote from the designer video. My response is: "Well, maybe. But what I REALLY liked as a kid was to recreate my favourite scenes from a movie." I think dragons (fell biest) and sodiers (Gondor) are also appealing for kids but would have been more interesting for AFOLs (and people who aren't fans of the movies but who are castle fans).

[Blazej_Holen]

But that requires new molds, PSA has no new molds only printings.

[Robert_88]

But that requires new molds, PSA has no new molds only printings.

Yes and I know that new molds are expensive and we only get a certain amoung of them in every set/wave. But a higher profit margin doesn't mean that the set is a bigger success. It must be profitable AND interesting for the target group.

[Blazej_Holen]

The set Itself is interesting enough, but only in case that there will be third wave.. Or if there was 8 sets like:

Wizards Battle (exist)

Council of Elrond (exist)

Osgiliath ambush (dont exist)

Battle at the Black gate (exist but its better to include 1 Gondor Soldier as well)

Whitch King Showdown (dont exist)

Pirate Ship ambush (exist)

Siege of Minas Tirith (dont exist, only Gate, Grond, and side wall s of ground level)

Citadel of Minas Tirith or Edoras (dont exist)

[Galactic13]

Do you think Lego is letting this get out of hand because they thought the Hobbit films would be more kid friendly than the Lord of the Ring? I think if Lego knew that the Hobit would be much more like LotR than the book its based off, Lego never would have signed on to this. The only reason we got LotR sets is because of the Hobbit films.

[atreyu2112]

The bottom line is that we will never be happy or satisfied, and the entire LotR line will be incomplete without *at the very least*

- The Balrog ... ALL fans have been asking for it since the line was announced! Could include a battle damaged Gandalf & a couple Moria Orc Archers

- The Witch-King Showdown (with armored versions of Witch-King, Eowyn & Merry with a Fell Beast, maybe Gothmog)

- A Minas Tirith or Osgiliath set (odds of getting both if any are slim) with Faramir, Madril (if Osgiliath), armored Pippin, Denethor, Gondor soldiers, could have Gothmog

here, Haradrim soldier (most likely as no new mold is necessary), could include a Fell Beast/Ringwraith.

- Treebeard Encounter with Merry, Pippin & Grishnakh ... no new molds necessary, only printing for Grishnakh. $25 set - easy win!

- SAURON! I'd prefer brick built like GotG Groot or X-men Sentinel, but I'd take a mini figure. Would be perfect as a prologue set with Elendil & Isildur!!!

Until at least that happens, the line shall be forever shamed and looked as as Lego's bane.

Edited September 25, 2014 by atreyu2112

[Blakstone]

The line feels incomplete but I feel no shame in my collection. LEGO will move on and prosper. It won't be cursed by a line that was not as fleshed out as we all want.

[Deathleech]

After the third Hobbit wave has come and gone it would be nice if Lego would at least let us fans know what is up with their Middle-Earth themes. I think that's the worst part, not knowing. Did poorer then expected sales lead to a quick end? Did the Hobbit movies changing and the term of the license agreement prevent a third LotR wave? Did the Lego Movie affect the timeline? Was there never even a third wave planned because anything Gondor would be seen as to similar to existing Castle? Knowing the reasoning behind everything might not fix the huge glaring hole Lego left, but it would at least help ease us and maybe help us understand why Lego seems to have made such a silly mistake leaving such a big hole in their LotR line.

[nymmerod]

After the third Hobbit wave has come and gone it would be nice if Lego would at least let us fans know what is up with their Middle-Earth themes. I think that's the worst part, not knowing. Did poorer then expected sales lead to a quick end? Did the Hobbit movies changing and the term of the license agreement prevent a third LotR wave? Did the Lego Movie affect the timeline? Was there never even a third wave planned because anything Gondor would be seen as to similar to existing Castle? Knowing the reasoning behind everything might not fix the huge glaring hole Lego left, but it would at least help ease us and maybe help us understand why Lego seems to have made such a silly mistake leaving such a big hole in their LotR line.

I think all of the above may be true.

I think the Hobbit merchandise in general was anticipated to sell like hotcakes all around but I noticed at my local Target the other day they seemed to still have a HUGE dusty stack of AUJ dvd's that have never sold. I think the Hobbit films have not sold as well as expected and therefore the related toys (including LOTR) have not sold as much as Lego or WB expected and so they scaled back the budget on the 2013 waves and scaled back again for this year and they will be done with Middle Earth now.

[TheLegoDr]

I don't think most Middle Earth related items have sold too well.

I may be alone and I know this isn't the discussion for the movies. But I just haven't felt a good vibe from the new movies like I did with LOTR. I felt like the writing was different and the characters were more likeable.

Either way, in terms of sets, it will always be incomplete for LOTR. And I highly doubt LEGO will ever release any information about the license, only so they don't burn any bridges for future partnerships. If they place the blame or make the licensor out to be the bad guy, they won't get any future licenses. If they paint themselves to be the bad guy, it will irk fans. Not knowing irks fans, but without making it official, it probably stings less.

[LegoThomas]

The bottom line is that we will never be happy or satisfied, and the entire LotR line will be incomplete without *at the very least*

- The Balrog ... ALL fans have been asking for it since the line was announced! Could include a battle damaged Gandalf & a couple Moria Orc Archers

- The Witch-King Showdown (with armored versions of Witch-King, Eowyn & Merry with a Fell Beast, maybe Gothmog)

- A Minas Tirith or Osgiliath set (odds of getting both if any are slim) with Faramir, Madril (if Osgiliath), armored Pippin, Denethor, Gondor soldiers, could have Gothmog

here, Haradrim soldier (most likely as no new mold is necessary), could include a Fell Beast/Ringwraith.

- Treebeard Encounter with Merry, Pippin & Grishnakh ... no new molds necessary, only printing for Grishnakh. $25 set - easy win!

- SAURON! I'd prefer brick built like GotG Groot or X-men Sentinel, but I'd take a mini figure. Would be perfect as a prologue set with Elendil & Isildur!!!

Until at least that happens, the line shall be forever shamed and looked as as Lego's bane.

I could not have summed it up better.

[Sir_Basil_Ashton]

I don't think most Middle Earth related items have sold too well.

I may be alone and I know this isn't the discussion for the movies. But I just haven't felt a good vibe from the new movies like I did with LOTR. I felt like the writing was different and the characters were more likeable.

I haven't felt a good vibe either with the Hobbit movies. I absolutely loved the LotR movies, to the point that I would ride a train for an hour and a half to see the movies in theater. For Hobbit, I was unable to watch the 1st movie in theater and watching it at home put me to sleep and I had no desire to watch the 2nd movie until it was playing on Sky. I'll most likely end up watching the 3rd movie on Sky as well.

As far as LEGO goes, the only Middle Earth sets I own are from LotR and at this point I'm happy that we did get the 2 waves of LotR that we did get and disappointed that we probably won't get more.

[Deathleech]

As far as LEGO goes, the only Middle Earth sets I own are from LotR and at this point I'm happy that we did get the 2 waves of LotR that we did get and disappointed that we probably won't get more.

You should get at least some of the Hobbit ones. There are several that have LotR locations or characters that would otherwise not be available. Most notable are Galadriel and Bag End. There also are the Wargs and a lot more orc variety.

I agree about the Hobbit movies. I feel like Peter Jackson pulled a George Lucas. the original LotR movies were amazing. The pre-quels sucked much like the original Star Wars trilogy and the pre-quels. I am not sure if this is completely Jackson's fault or not though, considering there wasn't a ton of substance in the source material with the Hobbit. I will say he went completely over the top with the CGI. It was bad enough when it was just Legolas doing cartwheels in the air and surfing on everything his feet touched, but when you have the orcs and dwarves doing it to it makes things ten times worse. I feel like the Hobbit movies come off more as comic book adaptations than fantasy, which is a shame. We get enough super hero movies every year.

[atreyu2112]

Agreed about crossover Lego Hobbit/LotR sets ... I couldn't agree more about getting Bag End (An Unexpected Gathering) and the new Witch-King Battle for Galadriel and Twilight Witch-King... to add to your Lord of the Rings collection. My Weathertop set has 2 extra Ringwriaths and now Twilight Witch-King all displayed together. Looks awesome. Even the Elrond with a standard elf hair piece makes for a good stand in prologue elf warrior (to go with the Gamestop prologue Elrond.

As for the Hobbit movies thus far... AUJ for me was just OK. Mostly for the fact that I am already a huge fan. But I think it failed to attract many more fans the way they expected, like Fellowship of the Ring did. I remember distinctly telling all of my friends and family they simply HAD to see it, just like Guardians of the Galaxy recently. AUJ... I could take it or leave it.

DOS on the other had, was a HUGE step up from AUJ. Much better action and pacing. And I think that TBotFA will be a *MUST SEE* film. We all know it's going to be epic. I also think that because AUJ left a sour taste for a lot of people, DOS suffered and TBotFA will be a HUGELY underestimated film at the box office. I think it's going to be the best performing film of The Hobbit Trilogy and I also think it will spark a LOT of interest in Middle Earth again, like the LotR films did.

[Galactic13]

I will have do disagree with you about DoS. It was a huge misrepresentation of the book. It added action in the pickup shoots so it could please the people that have never read the book and said that AUJ was boring.

Anyway I emailed Lego customer survice about wether or not LotR would continue and here is what I got back:

Thanks for getting in touch with us.

Isn’t it exciting that there are so many new LEGO® sets every year? It’s great to see you’re eagerly waiting and trying to find out about what we’ve planned for the future.

Have you seen the 79018 Hobbit: The Lonely Mountain set already? It's coming soon, on Oct 15th, 2014! It's huge and has Smaug in it!

I'm sorry that I can’t tell you anything about any other new Lord of the Rings or Hobbit sets beyond that one. Something like that might be coming soon, but our new toys are always kept secret until they’re announced in the catalogue or on LEGO.com. That’s because it takes a long time to design and make new toys, and we sometimes need every minute until they hit the shelves to make them perfect. Besides... we look forward to surprising you!

And remember, "It does not do to leave a live dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him.”

Happy building!

So as you can see, not even customer survice knows if the theme will continue.

[Blazej_Holen]

Just semi automatic reply... We had plenty of them already :) But nice try...

[BeardedNerdSE]

I doubt a regular customer service grunt would know before they get the official memo, and even if they did they wouldn't just announce it to the first customer who happened to ask. Lego has a great support department and they might be in-house, but it's just as likely they're hired help from somewhere different. At this point the only ones who know are the higher-ups at Lego and the designers of the sets, and they obviously aren't talking. You don't get leaks until things start getting produced when too many people have a chance to find out.

Although, just to contradict myself, the person who answered my request for ship materials on the special order page knew that some pieces were going to be put into production again (for Sea Cow and Pirates 2015) several months before either was announced, so you never know. But to a direct NDA-breaking question, there's no way they're going to answer.

Edited September 25, 2014 by BeardedNerdSE

[TheLegoDr]

The worst of it is the potential. You can't base everything off of potential since some things don't prosper, but a Middle Earth license has an open world of potential. But if the numbers aren't there, then there is no business reason to continue it. But their profit margins are so high anymore, they can take a hit to help out some of us fans, right? right?

[Robert_88]

One of the designers from the Lego LotR/Hobbit design team is on facebook but I never asked him about new LotR sets. Why? Because I know he can't talk about it.

[Blakstone]

I would say only LEGO management knows for sure. I think one of the things that bothers fans is we know more sets were designed than were ever released.

It is highly likely a third wave was designed and the sets / minifigs approved by WB. But the business decision was made to not go live with them.

I agree that the Hobbit films appeal to a narrower audience the LotR and that hurt sales. Back when LotR came out there was not an entire Marvel cinematic uninverse and that films treated the material more seriously.

Still, without the Hobbit films LEGO would never gave us the two waves and the D2C Orthanc set. I enjoyed the entire line.

[Lord_Tyrannus]

The problems are:

1) the Hobbit movie isn's that good, when compared to LOTR.. Even the book isn't THAT good, when compared to LOTR, as it had in view children's audience..

2) as much as I hate to say, we don't have so large numbers as we would like.. ANY of the Lego Ideas based on LOTR is even close of 10,000, and our petition hasn't reached 2,000..

But I still think it's unexcusable to leave Gondor out...

[Captain Nemo]

I feel like these are the last Middle Earth sets we'll be getting. From what I've seen around my areas, they don't sell too well and they're actually hard to find--like not on the shelves to begin with rather than being sold out.

Just a few days ago I picked up An Unexpected Gathering set from a Walmart clearance shelf for $54, but there was also some of the newer ones just lying there like the Pirate Ship (At $74). And there was a few Elf army sets on those same shelves; although they were not marked down for some reason... ...still they were not in the normal Lego shelves. Aside from a few breakouts, like Unexpected Gathering, I don't feel like the line as a whole is doing too well (And I don't blame it too much, because we all know how lackluster the second wave was)

Although it's also possible we have a Flying Dutchman senerio too. We all want some sets of specific things, we expect them because they're important and memorable...but they just don't show up for some reason. Which sucks.

[MattedBricks]

Hearing everyone's sentiments and feeling the very same is quite vindicating. It has been a great run while it lasted. I'll always hope for more, no matter how many waves we get.

And I would add my voice to those who have expressed views that while the Hobbit movies were not as good as LOTR, don't hold out on buying Hobbit sets because of it. I did, for a good while, and missed out on some great sets at great prices. We all know what aftermarket prices look like. My advice is pick them up while you can. I have picked up all but Goblin King... Bagend is fantastic, and Mirkwood Elf Army was a surprising gem (great number of figs, a brown warg, and a fun build with a creative elf launching play feature).

Though I bought these sets for myself, my girls have loved the Middle Earth theme. Probably the one they ask to play with the most. (Yes, I do keep them separated, because everyone keeps messing with my stuff!)