Heroica RPG - Heroica Hall

[Darth Nihilus]

"I apologize; I did not mean to insult your family. As for Holy enemies, I suppose that is an area in which Black Knights are powerful, and they do have the option of dealing extra Damage. In my experience, those enemies aren't very common, though."

"It was no insult. I know full well how my family destroys those who they dislike. Why should I not do the same, but for the right reasons? Yes, I wholeheartedly agree, but sacrificing your own strength for that small bit of extra damage to your foe? I only fulfilled one Quest as a Black Knight, and even then with difficulty.

"My God! A demon in the hall?! Honestly this one seems more insane than pure evil." I bop "Dak" on the bean with my Cross of Light.

" I do believe he probably deserved that. "

"She is just here, now. Mizuki, Dak Shadeaux. Dak Shadeaux, Mizuki ... I don't believe I know your last name? But as they say, always better to have the professional assassins on your side."

"A pleasure to meet you, Madam Mizuki. " Dak says, bowing to the woman the monk had introduced. "Our monk speaks very highly of you."

"You do have a point there. Make sure you clarify though, when you speak of Dak, lest Mister Shadeaux here assume you are speaking to him instead of...this."

"No harm done in having the same name. I trust, however, that, in the future, Sir Drake and his demon will refrain from knocking down doors?" Dak says, seeming just a bit more imposing as he glares at the two.

"I have experienced this first head while questing with Mademoiselle Mizuki. She stomped the life out of those who tried to attack us in an instance. What is more, she even shared the gold she earned between us. Friendly girl, really. I have always said, she's the least selfish rogue, I've ever met. I've never quested with a Black Knight before, so I wouldn't know their strengths and weaknesses, but I can't say I'm too keen on questing with them in the future. One cannot hope to fight the evil darkness that overshadows Eubric with yet more darkness."

"Yes, I must admit I prefer being an Assassin, not only because of the immense power to kill I now wield, but also because there are so many Assassins that I have great companions that can help me on this path. There are so very few Black Knights, and they are so solitary in nature, that there was quite a bit of loneliness in the path."

[Kintobor]

Karie tries to wrestle Johon's grip off the staff by jostling the staff about to no avail. She eventual stops, still holding onto the staff.

"Touché Johon, that's a rather clever trick. I see what you mean."

She turns to Nessa, still gripping the staff with both hands.

"Nessa, you want in on this? You look a little bored?"

[Brickdoctor]

"I have experienced this first head while questing with Mademoiselle Mizuki. She stomped the life out of those who tried to attack us in an instance. What is more, she even shared the gold she earned between us. Friendly girl, really. I have always said, she's the least selfish rogue, I've ever met. I've never quested with a Black Knight before, so I wouldn't know their strengths and weaknesses, but I can't say I'm too keen on questing with them in the future. One cannot hope to fight the evil darkness that overshadows Eubric with yet more darkness."

"I agree. Anyone who's trying to, as you say, fight evil with evil, is just as corrupt as the Houses and just as villainous as the Wolfgang."

"Yes, I must admit I prefer being an Assassin, not only because of the immense power to kill I now wield, but also because there are so many Assassins that I have great companions that can help me on this path. There are so very few Black Knights, and they are so solitary in nature, that there was quite a bit of loneliness in the path."

"To be fair, Black Knights don't exactly always play well in teams. Stunning themselves, hiding in the middle of a fight, letting another hero get struck by a Special meant for them..."

[Capt.JohnPaul]

"I am a Black Knight. And do not worry, I have protected myself from the stunning. We are heroes, and we cannot play defense forever, we need to decimate evil. And as a famous orc would say, Bash it!"

[Palathadric]

"To be fair, Black Knights don't exactly always play well in teams. Stunning themselves, hiding in the middle of a fight, letting another hero get struck by a Special meant for them..."

"It sounds to me that Black Knights are a very defensive, perhaps rather selfish class."

I glance at Alexandre.

"Black Knight, eh? You don't seem to have completely gone over to the dark side yet."

[Bricksandparts]

"Try not concentrating so much on the blade, rather the a vital part opponent's ability." Johon chuckles. "I guess I'm sorta asking you to punch me."

[Brickdoctor]

"I am a Black Knight. And do not worry, I have protected myself from the stunning. We are heroes, and we cannot play defense forever, we need to decimate evil. And as a famous orc would say, Bash it!"

"Actually, with a pair of Counterstrike Gloves, careful choice of weapon, and some good poison, you can play defense forever with quite a few enemies."

"It sounds to me that Black Knights are a very defensive, perhaps rather selfish class."

I glance at Alexandre.

"Black Knight, eh? You don't seem to have completely gone over to the dark side yet."

"Defensive? I doubt that. The "dark side" is anger, fear, aggression... Not more powerful, but quicker, easier, more seductive."

[Kintobor]

"Oh, well that's easy!"

Karie punches Johon squarely in the gut, sending him to the gtound, and retrieves her staff.

"If that hurt I'd has to see you get in the way of my boot!"

Karie lends a hand out, and helps Johon up.

[Capt.JohnPaul]

"That is all true, the counterstrike gloves are a god item. I can't speak for other black knights, but I try not to be selfish when one of my fellow heroes is hit, it just is skill. I use my training and speed to dodge the blow."

[Bricksandparts]

Johon is surprised at Karie's punch, a bit harder than he had expected, but it could still use some work to perfect it. Continuing his role as a teacher, he falls back, and then gets up.

"Not bad. Not a bad punch at all." Johon says. "Two things important about fighting is your perception of your opponent's moves and hidden attacks." Just as he says that, he throws a punch, but purposefully too far from Karie, then spins to use his intended attack, kicking at Karie's staff."

[Dannylonglegs]

"I agree. Anyone who's trying to, as you say, fight evil with evil, is just as corrupt as the Houses and just as villainous as the Wolfgang."

"To be fair, Black Knights don't exactly always play well in teams. Stunning themselves, hiding in the middle of a fight, letting another hero get struck by a Special meant for them..."

Sylph overhearing this turned his head. The squabbling and madness of the Hall never ceased to irritate him. The ignorance and hypocrisy of this archer in particular grated at him like gravel against skin. Sylph stood up, pulling his new emerald hood over his helmet. He walked over towards Docken.

"I must disagree with your assertion that evil cannot fight evil without becoming 'corrupt.' In fact, it is impossible to fight evil without evil." Sylph stated slowly and calmly, resting his hand on the table. "Killing. is. evil. To end the life of a being capable of thought, love, hunger, fear... is a horrendous crime--yet you, and all we 'heroes'--commit this act for money more than anything else. 'Good' is what benefits the most organisms for the longest time, therefor, evil can serve good better than strict adherence to 'goodly' acts. If a lion does refrains from killing an antelope, it cannot feed itself or its pride, and the antelopes eat themselves to extinction, killing the grass and the animals that depend on the grass and those that depend on them. The evil of killing the antelope saves that environ from destruction. You cannot say that that evil does not serve to counter the even greater evil that would befall should that lion swear to veganism. Corruption is evil without cause or the act of good when it serves evil ends."

[Tanma]

IC: De'kra turns to Sylph slowly, and clicks, "You are...not wrong. Killing is greatest crime we can commit, to extinguish life. And no matter who die it never right, it can only be necessary evil. And often it not necessary. Back home was different, heroes stuck to code never to kill unless situation was completely dire. Beasts of we world hunted others, but we only need energy or fruit. I suppose Eubric is different, their enemies are almost always living things and sapient at that, while we enemies were often suits of armor that could be taken apart once pilots were removed. And from what I see people here eat like Rah-beasts of we world, not I people."

OOC: If you think about it, Bionicle has a lot of mecha. Bohrok, Rahkshi, Boxers, Exo-Toa...

OOC: De'kra almost said a bad word.

[Capt.JohnPaul]

"I have to agree with Sylph. Killing is evil. What would've happened if we didn't defeat the Progg horde in Luosh? Is sitting by watching people be murdered okay, or is that evil?"

[Brickdoctor]

"I must disagree with your assertion that evil cannot fight evil without becoming 'corrupt.' In fact, it is impossible to fight evil without evil." Sylph stated slowly and calmly, resting his hand on the table. "Killing. is. evil. To end the life of a being capable of thought, love, hunger, fear... is a horrendous crime--yet you, and all we 'heroes'--commit this act for money more than anything else. 'Good' is what benefits the most organisms for the longest time, therefor, evil can serve good better than strict adherence to 'goodly' acts. If a lion does refrains from killing an antelope, it cannot feed itself or its pride, and the antelopes eat themselves to extinction, killing the grass and the animals that depend on the grass and those that depend on them. The evil of killing the antelope saves that environ from destruction. You cannot say that that evil does not serve to counter the even greater evil that would befall should that lion swear to veganism. Corruption is evil without cause or the act of good when it serves evil ends."

"I suppose that the classification of such acts as either 'good' or the 'lesser of two evils' could be subjective, and I can understand your position considering your training as a Druid. However, it is my view that killing is not necessarily evil, and can be justified.

"But Black Knights, they betray their fellow heroes' trust by Hiding or Dodging and allowing other heroes to take the blows for them, and where Diplomacy would suffice they instead resort to threatening and Intimidating in order to get their way. They don't just fight enemies that they would be justified in killing; they also willingly harm the party to save themselves, sacrificing their own Health only when it suits them, and they choose the Black Knight path knowing full well what they will do in a battle. I do not assume that the concept of a selfless Black Knight is impossible, but this is what their training* obviously teaches them."

OoC: Post is purposely sort of vague to avoid crossing the line to the sort of serious topics that don't belong on EB, and to keep focused on the statistical consequences of the class, which is all that Docken cares about. Is that roleplaying?

*By which I mean the rolls and abilities of a Black Knight.

"I have to agree with Sylph. Killing is evil. What would've happened if we didn't defeat the Progg horde in Luosh? Is sitting by watching people be murdered okay, or is that evil?"

"Whether you intended it or not, Sir Alexander, that is an excellent example of killing justified in that it is the elimination of a threat which intended to murder citizens of Uland, a party's act of causing death that is not evil."

[Kintobor]

Karie gets jittery when Johon throws his punch, dodging it barely, but becoming off balanced. She then sees Johon's kick coming towards her staff. Knowing what to come she holds a steady grip on her staff and takes the kick in strides, which sends her stepping backwards.

"And here I thought my kick was rough!"

She responds with a kick to Johon's gut, which she misses intentionally by a few centimeters, followed by a swing from her staff, aimed at his chest.

[Dannylonglegs]

"I have to agree with Sylph. Killing is evil. What would've happened if we didn't defeat the Progg horde in Luosh? Is sitting by watching people be murdered okay, or is that evil?"

"Indeed. Had we not killed them, who knows what atrocities they would have enacted on the world. I doubt they would have stopped at people. Such a hate-driven horde could easily have ravaged the planet and thrown its continued existence and ability to support life into turmoil. Sitting idly by as a force extinguishes life is truly evil and corrupt."

"I suppose that the classification of such acts as either 'good' or the 'lesser of two evils' could be subjective, and I can understand your position considering your training as a Druid. However, it is my view that killing is not necessarily evil, and can be justified.

"But Black Knights, they betray their fellow heroes' trust by Hiding or Dodging and allowing other heroes to take the blows for them, and where Diplomacy would suffice they instead resort to threatening and Intimidating in order to get their way. They don't just fight enemies that they would be justified in killing; they also willingly harm the party to save themselves, sacrificing their own Health only when it suits them, and they choose the Black Knight path knowing full well what they will do in a battle. I do not assume that the concept of a selfless Black Knight is impossible, but this is what their training* obviously teaches them."

OoC: Post is purposely sort of vague to avoid crossing the line to the sort of serious topics that don't belong on EB, and to keep focused on the statistical consequences of the class, which is all that Docken cares about. Is that roleplaying?

*By which I mean the rolls and abilities of a Black Knight.

"Whether you intended it or not, Sir Alexander, that is an excellent example of killing justified in that it is the elimination of a threat which intended to murder citizens of Uland, a party's act of causing death that is not evil."

"Hmmm. Then I see we differ fundamentally. I see each murder as an equally evil act, regardless of cause, but when viewed as part of the grand picture, only then can its worth be evaluated. If the good it caused outweighed the bad, it can be justified, but not regarded as an intrinsically good act. Hiding and roguish behavior is a different matter though. No matter the lengths to which such actions are taken, however, I find the term 'evil' poorly applied. I believe you mean 'selfish' or 'antisocial.' The acts of a black knight, from my understanding, arise from survival instincts. Just as you may pursue the acquisition of armour and stand your ground in a fight, they choose to dodge and protect themselves in other manners. While their self-focused mentality during battle may irritate you, they either cannot think that far ahead and cannot form as powerful a group-focused mentality as you yourself, or justify their actions by using their own survival as a means to benefit the team, by fleeing, or letting a foe better suited to taking a hit receive the blow. I doubt many maliciously decide to betray their allies."

Edited May 21, 2013 by Dannylonglegs

[Brickdoctor]

"Hmmm. Then I see we differ fundamentally. I see each murder as an equally evil act, regardless of cause, but when viewed as part of the grand picture, only then can its worth be evaluated. If the good it caused outweighed the bad, it can be justified, but not regarded as an intrinsically good act. Hiding and roguish behavior is a different matter though. No matter the lengths to which such actions are taken, however, I find the term 'evil' poorly applied. I believe you mean 'selfish' or 'antisocial.' The acts of a black knight, from my understanding, arise from survival instincts. Just as you may pursue the acquisition of armour and stand your ground in a fight, they choose to dodge and protect themselves in other manners. While their self-focused mentality during battle may irritate you, they either cannot think that far ahead and cannot form as powerful a group-focused mentality as you yourself, or justify their actions by using their own survival as a means to benefit the team, by fleeing, or letting a foe better suited to taking a hit receive the blow. I doubt many maliciously decide to betray their allies."

"I didn't say that murder could be good. Murder is never lawful, that is what separates it from other killings. If the killing is justified, then it is not murder, although the qualities of what constitutes a reasonable justification are themselves subjective.

"As for the intent of a Black Knight, as I said before, it is their choice which Advanced Class they wish to train for. They know before their training begins how each class will perform and respond in a battle. Hiding, Dodging, and Intimidating are all actions which are not shared by other Advanced Classes; if the Black Knights did not intend for them to be a possibility, then they would not have chosen the class in the first place."

[Dannylonglegs]

"I didn't say that murder could be good. Murder is never lawful, that is what separates it from other killings. If the killing is justified, then it is not murder, although the qualities of what constitutes a reasonable justification are themselves subjective.

"As for the intent of a Black Knight, as I said before, it is their choice which Advanced Class they wish to train for. They know before their training begins how each class will perform and respond in a battle. Hiding, Dodging, and Intimidating are all actions which are not shared by other Advanced Classes; if the Black Knights did not intend for them to be a possibility, then they would not have chosen the class in the first place."

"There is no difference between murder and killing. There is no universal law apart from the laws of Nature, in which there is no such distinction." Stated Sylph simply. His frustration was lessened. He remembered now why he didn't frequently debate, let-alone converse with others. "Sure they have other options, but the choice they make comes from who they are. A Black Knight's values are merely different than your own. That does not make them evil."

[Brickdoctor]

"There is no difference between murder and killing. There is no universal law apart from the laws of Nature, in which there is no such distinction." Stated Sylph simply. His frustration was lessened. He remembered now why he didn't frequently debate, let-alone converse with others. "Sure they have other options, but the choice they make comes from who they are. A Black Knight's values are merely different than your own. That does not make them evil."

"I suppose that natural law can be quite philosophical and is open to much interpretation, so I will not question your belief there. It's a fair point considering the apparent corruption which we have discussed's being present in the very powers of Eubric which create and enforce the laws of this city. In regards to Black Knights, I have no doubt that they do not believe that they are evil according to their values. But just because our values differ does not mean that I cannot believe them to be more evil or to at least stray closer to evil than other classes, just as you and what I assume to be Druidic values believe all killing to be evil while I believe that it isn't always. I've already stated why I believe that."

OoC: Disclaimer: I don't really know that much about any formal legal definitions of killing and/or murder.

"corruption which we have discussed's being present" - I can't decide if that's written the right way or not. It sounds fine when I say it in my head but it looks wrong when typed out.

[Dannylonglegs]

"I suppose that natural law can be quite philosophical and is open to much interpretation, so I will not question your belief there. It's a fair point considering the apparent corruption which we have discussed's being present in the very powers of Eubric which create and enforce the laws of this city. In regards to Black Knights, I have no doubt that they do not believe that they are evil according to their values. But just because our values differ does not mean that I cannot believe them to be more evil or to at least stray closer to evil than other classes, just as you and what I assume to be Druidic values believe all killing to be evil while I believe that it isn't always. I've already stated why I believe that."

OoC: Disclaimer: I don't really know that much about any formal legal definitions of killing and/or murder.

"corruption which we have discussed's being present" - I can't decide if that's written the right way or not. It sounds fine when I say it in my head but it looks wrong when typed out.

"Indeed." Stated Sylph simply, no longer interested but maintaining the impression that he cared. "I see you and I define evil differently then. While I view inflicting harm upon others as evil, it would seem you see not helping others as evil. It seems our argument is at an impass. I cannot convince you of my definition, and you cannot convince me of yours." Sylph stated finally. "Am I correct?"

[Brickdoctor]

"Indeed." Stated Sylph simply, no longer interested but maintaining the impression that he cared. "I see you and I define evil differently then. While I view inflicting harm upon others as evil, it would seem you see not helping others as evil. It seems our argument is at an impass. I cannot convince you of my definition, and you cannot convince me of yours." Sylph stated finally. "Am I correct?"

"I would not say that that is my exact definition of evil, but considering that the conversation I was having was concerned with the statistical helpfulness of Black Knights, I don't see a reason to continue the debate when, as you are correct in saying, we seem to be unable to convince the other of our definitions."

My throat somewhat scratchy after the discussions with various heroes throughout the day, I sip a cup of tea.

"How much experience have you had as a healer, Master Solanum? I have heard a rumor that the Great Guffington may require Heroica's assistance again, and I assume that Master Hybros and Master Holla will sign up for such a quest, but it is always a good idea to have a healer, especially a Druid."

[Dannylonglegs]

"I would not say that that is my exact definition of evil, but considering that the conversation I was having was concerned with the statistical helpfulness of Black Knights, I don't see a reason to continue the debate when, as you are correct in saying, we seem to be unable to convince the other of our definitions."

My throat somewhat scratchy after the discussions with various heroes throughout the day, I sip a cup of tea.

"How much experience have you had as a healer, Master Solanum? I have heard a rumor that the Great Guffington may require Heroica's assistance again, and I assume that Master Hybros and Master Holla will sign up for such a quest, but it is always a good idea to have a healer, especially a Druid."

"Intriguing." Sylph stated. "I concider myself above all a healer. The powers of nature grant those who realize them great skill in that art. If you mean to propose I join you in such an endeavor, I would not be averse. It is my constant quest to obtain enough power to heal the diseases that plague our world. I would do next to anything that can advance me in those regards. Regretfully, I do not pay attention to politics or fame. Who is this 'Great Guffington?' Does he serve a house? At some point I would be interested to obtain enough of a reputation with the Guild of Invision to study their works..."

[Brickdoctor]

"Intriguing." Sylph stated. "I concider myself above all a healer. The powers of nature grant those who realize them great skill in that art. If you mean to propose I join you in such an endeavor, I would not be averse. It is my constant quest to obtain enough power to heal the diseases that plague our world. I would do next to anything that can advance me in those regards. Regretfully, I do not pay attention to politics or fame. Who is this 'Great Guffington?' Does he serve a house? At some point I would be interested to obtain enough of a reputation with the Guild of Invision to study their works..."

"Master Guffington serves no house. From what little I found out about him during my last quest for him, it appears that he is wealthy beyond belief, having done so much already that he was bored with the world and willing to remain in a sort of 'dream dimension' where he could experience that which he'd never experienced before."

[Dannylonglegs]

"Master Guffington serves no house. From what little I found out about him during my last quest for him, it appears that he is wealthy beyond belief, having done so much already that he was bored with the world and willing to remain in a sort of 'dream dimension' where he could experience that which he'd never experienced before."

"He sounds... close minded... There is enough beauty in this world that if you lived a thousand lives you would not quite grasp a fraction of its majesty, for as vast and varied as the world is, it is constantly shifting, changing, evolving, dying and regrowing from its ashes. Every milisecond a new life erupts into existance, and every milisecond an old one returns to the earth. So long as balance is maintained, this beautiful cycle shall continue indefinitely.... To forgoe one's chance to experience this and take part in it is a concept I find difficult to comprehend."

Edited May 21, 2013 by Dannylonglegs

[Brickdoctor]

"He sounds... close minded... There is enough beauty in this world that if you lived a thousand lives you would not quite grasp a fraction of its majesty, for as vast and varied as the world is, it is constantly shifting, changing, evolving, dying and regrowing from its ashes. Every milisecond a new life erupts into existance, and every milisecond an old one returns to the earth. So long as balance is maintained, this beautiful cycle shall continue indefinitely.... To forgoe one's chance to experience this and take part in it is a concept I find difficult to comprehend."

"I agree with you there, but I was unable to convince Master Guffington to come back. It was Master Holla demonstrating his skill with his newly-acquired Dancing Shoes that convinced Master Guffington that he hadn't seen everything yet. I must admit that I am not sure if he still maintains that view."