Help me design a new train layout

[mostlytechnic]

Ok, I've gotten the wife's approval to make a large, pretty permanent layout in the basement. I'll be making/buying tables to put it on, as well as of course, laying track, adding trains and scenery, etc...

So, I'm looking for the advice of the collective wisdom here. My space is going to be L-shaped, in a corner, so the back corner of the table is pretty inaccessible (I wouldn't want track back there, since it'd be a pain to fix derailed trains). In the pics below, I left a hole in the corner to remind myself - it may or may not really be a hole in the finished table.

Here's 2 layouts I've come up with. Thoughts? If anyone wants to make a better layout, share away! I've got roughly 50 each straights and curves, a few feet of flex, a pair of points, and the 7996 double switch. I want to be able to run multiple trains, but not necessarily just a couple separate loops (I don't need to leave it running attended like at a train show; this is for playing with). Some sidings for train storage would be nice, but I don't want just a big switching yard either. And I can add more track too if needed...

For space, I'm thinking about using a 4x8 foot sheet as the main section, with an extra 30" wide strip, 6 feet long, as the base of the L (in the layout below, I used the 30x48" table, leaving a 2'x2' hole in the corner.

Both of these layouts would have the trains running clockwise, since the switch in the back is unreachable and I don't have immediate plans to motorize it. (oh, and I'm not worried about the breaks in the layout since I've got flex track to make it work... I just made these quickly in bluebrick without being too picky about spacing and such)

Also, recommendations on how to make the table? I want it to be a comfortable height for an adult, and I'll add some stepstools or something for kids to look (my wife also uses part of the basement as a photo studio with small kids, so I don't want it too easily reached)

Edited August 1, 2011 by mostlytechnic

[22kane]

I've actually designed many train layouts in n scale but not in Lego yet. The basic principles are the same though. You've got some decent track plans there and either one would work. The idea is to come up with something based on operations or what you want the "train" to do. Many track plans are designed around the purpose of the trains meaning what buildings does the train need to visit and what cargo is being used. For a basic "show" layout a simple oval with some sidings and buildings will work. If you want to get complicated then design it so several trains can run at once with purpose.

The top track plan won't really work for multiple operations but the bottom one will. Out of these two I would shoot for that. If your looking for additional designs try a local hobby store that sells model trains. They usually have track plan books that you can look through to get other ideas.

I would also keep from having an unreachable switch. The idea may seem fine now but later you will regret it. You may also want to try adding height to the rails here and there. By the way, will this be Power Functions or 9v?

[mostlytechnic]

Thanks for the input - this is all PF. I currently have the Maersk, Emerald Night, 7939 Cargo, the Toy Story train (not currently powered), and some MOC cars.

I'm actually planning to pick an interesting/fun layout to operate, and then we'll add buildings and "purpose" from there since I don't have any buildings built yet. I do have a TON of bricks and lots of ideas though :)

Right now, the unreachable switch in the back is mostly because I didn't see a better place to put it, since I have limited reachable space. And in the second layout, it's relatively reachable. That's only a 30" wide board there.

And I have thought about some elevation changes - most likely along the back of the layout since that's the longest stretch of track. I've got the 7900 heavy hauler that I plan to mod into a bridge at some point...

[cimddwc]

I'd choose a layout that has (at least) two loops to run two trains concurrently, which, as 22kane already mentioned, the 2nd layout allows, but not the 1st. Which is why I'm currently planning for my setup that I'll be able to start sometime next year with a double-track full loop (PF), an extra small loop on a mountain (9V), and a small subway (12V) underneath. (And some tunnels and some sidings of course.)

And I'm thinking about operating distant, possibly unreachable switches with simple strings attached to the moving part of the switch similar to the one shown here, though I don't know how well this will work in the long run.

[Pet-Lego]

Another idea,

I'm fond of double tracks to have trains pass each other and it is as most track here in the Netherlands is situated.

So just a sample to spark some more ideas.

[mostlytechnic]

I really like that general idea - I'd probably move the pair of switches to give some sidings somewhere, but otherwise, that's pretty good idea. It'd keep the operator busy too since the 7996 can't work as two parallel tracks :)

[greenmtvince]

I'm actually planning to pick an interesting/fun layout to operate, and then we'll add buildings and "purpose" from there since I don't have any buildings built yet. I do have a TON of bricks and lots of ideas though :)

What do you mean by operate? Like running a bunch of trains around the layout or simulating railroad operations in one way or another. If the former I think the proposals would work fine. If the latter I think you need to think about the types of trains you'd like to run, why they should be running, and the stations, yards, or industries you would need to support that vision of operating you have. The layout design falls into place after that.

[AussieJimbo]

It'd keep the operator busy too since the 7996 can't work as two parallel tracks :)

It can work for parallel tracks if used the right way. Admittedly the inability to set it to parallel tracks in both directions is a limitation but this can be overcome by your mode of operation. When running trains on a double track in real life you will have a standard "up" and "down" main, so you set up 7996 accordingly so that the trains pass straight through it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railroad_directions

This configuration also implements another concept called "safe working" where all of your pointwork is set up to ensure an out of control train will always be switched to at worst running in the right direction on the main line or be directed to a relatively safe derailment point. In some countries it's standard practice that any train wishing to use the other main line in the "wrong" direction, it must reverse onto it thus avoiding points configurations that could lead to head on collisions.

When only running a single train and ignoring track directions, the crossovers help you set up interesting loops for your train to travel around the layout. There is also the option of piggy-backing 2 x 7996 in a three track config near stations. Takes a bit of space but gives you more interesting routing options.

:classic:

Edited August 2, 2011 by AussieJimbo

[donut2k]

Another idea,

I'm fond of double tracks to have trains pass each other and it is as most track here in the Netherlands is situated.

So just a sample to spark some more ideas.

a bit off-topic:

That is a sweet diagram, how did you manage to get it done? I mean, what software/program did you use?

cheers

[mostlytechnic]

bluebrick (http://bluebrick.lswproject.com/)

[Brickaroo]

How about throwing in a few resting points in there for trains not running? One or two switches with a dead end.

[mostlytechnic]

At this point the leader is a mod of pet's idea, replacing the siding on the back-right side with a pair of sidings. That should give a nice mix of long runs around the track with a couple of places to play and/or park trains that aren't running. I've got small kids, so most of the time I'll be far more likely to see how many cars we can pull at once (and how fast!) rather than pretend to do realistic train operations :) Heck, the kids won't even care if I use the Maersk, EN, and 7939 loco all together in one train!

[greenmtvince]

At this point the leader is a mod of pet's idea, replacing the siding on the back-right side with a pair of sidings. That should give a nice mix of long runs around the track with a couple of places to play and/or park trains that aren't running. I've got small kids, so most of the time I'll be far more likely to see how many cars we can pull at once (and how fast!) rather than pretend to do realistic train operations :) Heck, the kids won't even care if I use the Maersk, EN, and 7939 loco all together in one train!

Oh, in that case, I think Pet's is great. What appeals to me is the wider radius turn he uses on the left side and if you can find any place to fit more like that in, it'll make the big long trains look that much nicer. Perhaps the curve towards the lower center.

In building the layout I'd incorporate some sort of low 18-24" viewblock made out of lumber or foamcore board painted a nice sky blue along the inside length of the inner oval. Having the trains disappear behind it will give the impression of an even larger layout and cut down on the bricks and baseplates you'll need to decorate it with. If you have the bricks or sets though, a town center with some large buildings like the modular series would certainly do the trick.

Likewise, an easier alternative to raising the track to build a bridge would be to lower a section of table a few inches.

[Staalis]

In model railroading there are often tracks or shunting yards on hidden parts of the layout to give the feeling that trains actually disappear every now and then. Maybe something to consider as you seem to have a decent amount of space at your hands?

[mostlytechnic]

I'm not going to baseplate the whole table - don't have that in the budget. I do plan to do some facade buildings along the back wall (unless I raise the track there, in which case I'd probably put some facades between the tracks in the back so the rearmost track looks like an elevated line)

Otherwise, buildings and scenery will come over time as we build stuff. I'm tentatively thinking about putting one siding inside the loop and one splitting off in the front center and going down into the bottom right loop to have a longer siding for parking stuff. With time, that one could then be split more (if I bought more points) to make a smallish switching yard.

As for the table itself, I'm thinking cheap plywood on a frame with sturdy legs, and then cover the plywood with carpet tiles to make a decent surface. Gotta finish cleaning out the basement space first though, and then sell more stuff in my bricklink store to get the funding for the table :)

Thanks for all the advice... I'll post a new layout when I get a chance to play with it a little more.

[I am Lego]

Word of warning.

Don't skimp on the table. Mine are 4x8 and i used 3/4 rhs for the frame and legs. The top was 15mm mdf (craft wood). everything was fine until i started adding things. Then they started to develop bows (which is not very good for running trains over.). So i had to add another pair of legs to the middle.

[peterab]

Word of warning.

Don't skimp on the table. Mine are 4x8 and i used 3/4 rhs for the frame and legs. The top was 15mm mdf (craft wood). everything was fine until i started adding things. Then they started to develop bows (which is not very good for running trains over.). So i had to add another pair of legs to the middle.

I'd second this advice, LEGO can be surprisingly heavy, and warp your table top over time. One suggestion I got from an AMRA show I exhibited at was to use aluminium angle for the frame. Light weight and similar cost to wood but much more stable.

[Dazmundo]

I'm planning on building a Lego layout table in my shed, and we are currently replacing our conservatory, so the plan is to use the floor and beams from my old conservatory for the table, hopefully that will be strong enough.

D

[mostlytechnic]

To make the table build easier, I'm thinking about getting something like this shelving unit:

(sears.com, can't link the photo)

The vertical posts are in 2 pieces, so you can make it 2 units half that tall, or 36" each. Use those as supports under the plywood top - provides strong support AND storage :) I need to check the shelves in store though - I know they sell a ton of different ones that vary widely in how sturdy they are. I've got some that I wouldn't hesitate to park a car on top of, and some that are rickety junk :)

[greenmtvince]

To make the table build easier, I'm thinking about getting something like this shelving unit:

(sears.com, can't link the photo)

The vertical posts are in 2 pieces, so you can make it 2 units half that tall, or 36" each. Use those as supports under the plywood top - provides strong support AND storage :) I need to check the shelves in store though - I know they sell a ton of different ones that vary widely in how sturdy they are. I've got some that I wouldn't hesitate to park a car on top of, and some that are rickety junk :)

Thanks for sharing that! I'm seriously considering this as an option since I build my layouts only 2' wide anyway. While the shelves themselves look solid, I question the legs as my parents had some similar units so rickety that I wouldn't even put a $5 impulse buy set on them for fear that the whole thing would collapse.

Edited August 3, 2011 by greenmtvince

[henryhotspurs]

I have a large layout in my garage 60" x 144" and am getting ready to remodel the entire layout. What I have learned:

1) Make your setup as modular as possible. You will want to make frequent layout changes until you find something that works. If the layout is one big piece it will be hard to change later. It will not be long before someone asks you to move or display your layout. Pieces have to be portable to do so.

2) Use quality materials and good construction techniques. Plan the height of your layout based on what you can stack underneath. Plastic parts cabinets come in various heights. Measure the ones you want to use and build your tables so they fit underneath. Likewise, add storage space for trains not on the tables. I added shelves, with spare track, to display my trains. Try to keep everything as level as possible. Trains that run uphill, pulling long consists, wear batteries quickly. Each of my modules has leveler "feet" consisting of an adjustable bolt, nut and washer to keep everything level.

3) Use a Lego scale when building modules. I use a 3 x 3 green baseplate scale (30" x 30"). Each base plate is roughly 10 inches square. This will save headaches later. Yes, there is more lumber involved but my modules can be bolted together to create larger tables.

4) Have reaching access to as much of your layout as possible (meaning all). Trust me, that inaccessible back corner will give you fits unless you do.

5) Have viewing access to all of your layout. Unless your layout is small, being able to walk around the entire layout is what dazzles the crowd.

6) Try to get as many trains running at once, as is possible. At least one in an opposite direction really gets the "oohs and ahhs'. Two speedy passenger trains, seemingly hurtling toward each other, is fun to watch.

7) Don't forget tunnels, bridges and train "hide and seek". Kids love that! Try using various levels of track or building additional wooden levels to save on bricks.

8) Lastly, add lots of sidings and on-table, train storage areas. Constantly having to take a train off the table and put a new one on is not fun. Add lots of switchable sidings and at least two independent main lines to alleviate this problem and keep the action moving..

Good Luck!

[mostlytechnic]

I don't know about the rack you linked to, but the one I listed is I think the same thing as the "Gorilla Rack" shelves that I already have, and they're VERY sturdy.

[I am Lego]

C'mon people , priorities please! Height should be dictated by the bar fridge that is mandatory.( Well it should be...) I do agree on the length and width being relevant to baseplates though. Mine is 5 plates wide at my end and 4 at my kids end. Due to the limited width of the 12m shipping container i converted to make the lego room, the tables had to go hard up against the wall. This does however stop the plummet of doom, and any derailments are reachable (at a stretch), or in the worst case as long as your tables are sturdy enough you can always kneel on them.

[mostlytechnic]

Current plan:

Buy this shelf ($80 at home depot):

Build as 2 pieces, half that height. Put them under the ends of the main table, with some 2x4s or similar going across first for support in the middle. That provides support, shelves for storage, and still most of the space underneath completely open for larger storage (large tubs).

Get a smaller shelf to put the right-hand piece on, but around 6-8 inches lower and have that part of the track on a stone bridge that we'll have to design and build. Probable final layout is shown below.

I also stuck the 7997 train station in the map - I have one still unopened that we'll put in the display somewhere, so I added it for a sense of scale for us as we plan. Another thing I like about this layout is that it leaves some space in the front between the track and the edge of the table for building/repairs/etc.

Oh, and normally I'd agree that a fridge is mandatory - but we'll have to do without. The real fridge isn't very far away :)

Edited August 4, 2011 by mostlytechnic