Trouble creating difficult technic connections

[mgmchenry]

I'm doing some prototyping for a fairly large project. It's not large compared to some, but at over 80 studs long and 60 studs wide, it's the biggest Lego model I've ever undertaken.

It started innocently enough. My son told me what he wanted to make and I threw together a perfectly play-with-able model in about an hour. But I just couldn't stop refining the design.

I've found it pretty helpful to model it in LDD because I can export to brickstore. When I'm through, I'll probably buy the whole set of bricks because I'd rather not deplete the overall lego collection by much. I don't have nearly enough legos to finish the project and I anticipate it will remain assembled for several years.

I'm finding some of the technic connections hard to make.

Take this segment of the model, for example:

Literally, hours and hours have been spent getting that into the right shape. Once or twice, I rebuilt the model from scratch to deal with rounding errors causing parts to not quite line up. Even now, the hinge align tool does some hilarious stuff.

This setup has been very difficult to get:

Seeing it put together, it probably doesn't look that hard. I've had to refine my LDD techniques over and over again to get this. I can't even describe the pain.

I use a scaffolding to get the pieces into basically the right position:

The slope of the ramp is about 1/9.95. That is, for every 10 studs along the hypotenuse, it rises one stud and travels 9.95 studs horizontally. The goofy scaffolding is so I can place the vertical beams 9.95 studs apart while keeping them vertically centered. The green post on the nose is to place the model flat on the building surface again when it gets jarred away from being level from time to time due to using the hinge align tool or something else.

But I still haven't gotten it on the other side:

I'm using a blue pin here because I can't fit a regular black one in this spot.

Which is ridiculous because I'm pretty sure it's just a copied and flipped version of the other side.

And that's just scratching the surface. The whole model is quite a bit larger and contains many other difficult-to-represent connections. Any ideas out there?

TechnicFramePuzzle.zip

[DLuders]

If you can wait JUST A LITTLE WHILE, LDD 4.0 is supposed to be released soon. There could be some improvements to the software that will allow you to build your MOC a lot easier.

[Zerobricks]

I replaced those blue pins with regular:

http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/zblj/LDDparts/technicframepuzzle.lxf

P.S. Superkalle, why cant I upload LXF's here?

[Superkalle]

P.S. Superkalle, why cant I upload LXF's here?

You have to zip them first, then it will work.

[mgmchenry]

I replaced those blue pins with regular:

http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/zblj/LDDparts/technicframepuzzle.lxf

P.S. Superkalle, why cant I upload LXF's here?

Wow! That was fast! How did you do it? That took me hours to get to that point! Amazing.

Thank you so much. But seriously... how...did you...do that???

I noticed the lxf upload thing as well. I thought it was because I was new or something. luckily, the zip was accepted.

Believe me, I'm holding my breath for 4.0. I try not to check for the update more than once an hour, though, because that would seem a little over-obsessive. Because I can easily calculate the angles and distances, it's actually been easier to model parts of it in sketchup. I haven't gotten far with ldraw or SR3D builder.

I just want to get the frame completed and purchased as soon as possible because I have so many other problems to solve like the specifics of the landing supports, the sliding hangar bay doors, hanging the decks parallel to the ground, the carry handles, the specifics of the top hull hinges to allow easy access to the interior. And the entire interior...

[roamingstop]

But I still haven't gotten it on the other side:

I'm using a blue pin here because I can't fit a regular black one in this spot.

Which is ridiculous because I'm pretty sure it's just a copied and flipped version of the other side.

I had similar issues with my 851 B Models, where a technic axle links two large gears, and the gears connect (with pins) to angled technic beams. (bottom right press).

Probably took about 1 hour of hinge tool pain to get the alignment to work on one side of the axle pair - but the other side refused. I eventually managed, but now when I reload the model LDD removes one of the technic beams because it is 'illegal' - even though both left and right side of the system are identical.

Im pretty sure this is related to slightly imperfect alignments of connectors, and will also look forward to LDD 4.0 and hope it helps (a little)

By the way - a nice model... looks like a better version of the S/W UCS Destroyer...

[Zerobricks]

Wow! That was fast! How did you do it? That took me hours to get to that point! Amazing.

Thank you so much. But seriously... how...did you...do that???

I noticed the lxf upload thing as well. I thought it was because I was new or something. luckily, the zip was accepted.

Believe me, I'm holding my breath for 4.0. I try not to check for the update more than once an hour, though, because that would seem a little over-obsessive. Because I can easily calculate the angles and distances, it's actually been easier to model parts of it in sketchup. I haven't gotten far with ldraw or SR3D builder.

I just want to get the frame completed and purchased as soon as possible because I have so many other problems to solve like the specifics of the landing supports, the sliding hangar bay doors, hanging the decks parallel to the ground, the carry handles, the specifics of the top hull hinges to allow easy access to the interior. And the entire interior...

I manually aligned beams, until beams fit. If that didn't help, i removed the opposite pin, attached beam to the troublesome one instead and than either manually or hinge aligned the lower one. If anyone has issues with LDD bad connections, just poke me

Good luck with your project!

[mgmchenry]

I manually aligned beams, until beams fit. If that didn't help, i removed the opposite pin, attached beam to the troublesome one instead and than either manually or hinge aligned the lower one. If anyone has issues with LDD bad connections, just poke me

Good luck with your project!

Thank you. I have much to learn, apparently.

I think what I might want to do is make a video showing how I put the model together to see if I can get any feedback on easier ways to get it done. There are still a lot of tricky connections coming.

I'm actually not sure I'm going to stick to that 1/9.95 slope. If I have to redo that... bah.

Since LDD doesn't give you anything resembling a protractor, I think I'm going to start building more jigs to get pieces where I want them.

[mgmchenry]

I had similar issues with my 851 B Models, where a technic axle links two large gears, and the gears connect (with pins) to angled technic beams. (bottom right press).

It feels good, strangely, to know I'm not the only one having trouble with this. Did you publish the lxf files somewhere? I'd like to spend a few minutes applying what I've learned to someone else's problem.

By the way - a nice model... looks like a better version of the S/W UCS Destroyer...

Thanks a lot. Better than the UCS? Only because there is a lot left to the imagination! It's very nice of you to say. I probably wouldn't have the two separate a-frames for an ISD.

It's actually a take on the Venator. I've just been prototyping the front two thirds of the craft while I nail down the scale and shape. There has to be room for an open hangar bay along the top ridge of the hull.

It won't be a scale model of the Venator as seen in RotS. It's primarily a toy, so I'm taking a lot of artistic license.

[theLemur]

alright, this looks like the same issue.

I've played with LDD before, made a fairly large zigurrat, and was quite pleased with that. Then I started working on some concepts to see if I could do certain things. Using nonstandard connections was always an issue for me. But then I got a new laptop, and for giggles I put on LDD 4.3. And I was thrilled. I was able to do everything I wanted!

So I took on a big project. I downloaded the instructions for the Millennium Falcon (the big one, set #10179). And for a while, everything was great.

This step was a little sketchy, but I got through.

Then I started on this step:

This took a lot of time to get right. Since it's clearly a 90 degree angle and a 45 degree bar, I even used the hinge tool to set it. The hinge align tool didn't do anything at all. But by alternating what sequence I put the pieces in, I eventually got it.

This step, was a major pain:

Every red or yellow circle is a pin/technic connection, except that far-right one which is 2 sets of locking hinge bricks (part 30365 and its companion). It literally took hours to get everything aligned.

Naturally, there's similar construction that hooks on the other side. I spent hours on it, too, and still never got it quite right.

When I built the undercarriage that goes underneath that last piece shown, I couldn't get it to fit. I gave up on the model.

So in the last 2 years, since this thread was started, have people developed techniques to put these technic connections together more readily? I've learned some tricks on how to get it to rotate around the pin I want, since when there's more than 1 pin through a beam, the designer just kinda guesses, almost never right. A lot of that is actually removing pins, using the hinge, and then replacing the pins, but it still doesn't always work right.

Any advice?

[Nachapon Lego]

I tried to connect all hinges and pin of DenJansen's #10179 by draw a sketch to find best angles first. Then all parts fit well without any trials and errors. Please note that the nose is not 90 degree.

lxf: http://www.brickshel..._find_angle.lxf

LDD by DenJansen _find best angle by Nachapon S., on Flickr

Edited January 28, 2013 by bbqqq

[Nachapon Lego]

I also try easy way, built a dummy struture with same stud dimension to make hinge align tool to work. Then use it as an angle template. The result is ok the parts fit, but not as perfect as sketch way.

Because the hinges are just touch but not connect eachother.

lego 10179 dummy for hinge align tool by Nachapon S., on Flickr

LDD by DenJansen _hinge align by Nachapon S., on Flickr

Edited January 28, 2013 by bbqqq

[theLemur]

oo. Thanks! I'll do some messing around. That lxf looks very useful.