Bionicle-2010?

[Erebus]

Um, I hope there won't be scans for a while. Buying Graphic Novels 8 and 9 will help determine whether Graphic Novel 10 will see the light of day. And I really want to GN 10 released.

[Captain M]

Um, I hope there won't be scans for a while. Buying Graphic Novels 8 and 9 will help determine whether Graphic Novel 10 will see the light of day. And I really want to GN 10 released.

I haven't bought a Bionicle book in ages. Anyways, does it really matter? I mean, if sales don't go right Greg can always tell the whole story on a Bionicle related website like BZP.

[Erebus]

It sure does matter. Papercutz paid for the portion of the script that was done, so they own it.

It's not just the story: there's the artwork by Christian Zanier too. Artwork is pretty important. We would get to see the Element Lord of Sand who was missing in Riddle of the Great Beings.

[Captain M]

It sure does matter. Papercutz paid for the portion of the script that was done, so they own it.

It's not just the story: there's the artwork by Christian Zanier too. Artwork is pretty important. We would get to see the Element Lord of Sand who was missing in Riddle of the Great Beings.

There has been artwork for the Element Lords?

[Phantoka Kopaka Nuva]

It's not that I don't support the GN sales, it's just that I live in a country where it's impossible to get graphic novels without ordering it online. And my parents won't allow me to buy anything online. Especially not comics, since it's "a waste of money".

[Erebus]

There has been artwork for the Element Lords?

In GN8, I believe.

[Brickthing]

I'm not concerned about scans of the comics, but surely at least pictures of Elemental Lords and the Battera should be online by now right?

[Erebus]

I don't believe people are aware that the book is out in comic shops. Most are probably waiting for June 8.

[Zarkan]

Well, I'll sure as heck be getting GN 8, since it's one of only two so far that have exclusive artwork. Dunno about GN 9, since it's just a compilation of comics I already have, and the graphic novels are a bit expensive for my liking.

On another note, anyone else here contributed to the whole "Mask of Healing" discussion going on at BZP? I personally voted yes, but on the condition that some of the suggstions people have made about it's canonization are also included (mainly, that it can heal the user as well, and that it can only heal afflictions that the user understands). Oh, and I also agreed with everyone else that it would have to be used in official storyline, although I really wonder how ensuring that would be possible.

[Erebus]

I was a bit hesitant on sending that idea to the BSS because of how it would affect the storyline. Chances are, like the Expanded Multiverse Kanohi, this mask won't be used, at least by GregF.

[Nike2032]

I think people should at least buy GN 8, because if you are depending on the internet for scans of Elemetal Lords and the Battera, you will have to wait longer for them and this will not help the chances of GN 10 coming out. Furthermore, it includes nothing but new stories, so I think its worth it when you can carry on reading about new (or expanded) Bionicle stories even as the line is finished.

Just an opinion though, I could be wrong as they are quite expensive.

[Phantoka Kopaka Nuva]

I think people should at least buy GN 8, because if you are depending on the internet for scans of Elemetal Lords and the Battera, you will have to wait longer for them and this will not help the chances of GN 10 coming out. Furthermore, it includes nothing but new stories, so I think its worth it when you can carry on reading about new (or expanded) Bionicle stories even as the line is finished.

Just an opinion though, I could be wrong as they are quite expensive.

People from the US should buy GN 8. Just so you know, there are fans from many other countries waiting for the scans because they can't afford to buy the book themselves. Mainly because they're not yet 18 and are not allowed to buy anything online.

This makes me wish I could buy the novel myself. Which I can't......

[Erebus]

Well, now that those two images have been released, I have a feeling that a lot of people will not buy the book, not because of money, but because they hate the images.

[Nike2032]

People from the US should buy GN 8. Just so you know, there are fans from many other countries waiting for the scans because they can't afford to buy the book themselves. Mainly because they're not yet 18 and are not allowed to buy anything online.

This makes me wish I could buy the novel myself. Which I can't......

Sorry about my earlier statement, I did not realize this. What I meant to say is anyone who has money to spare and is able to buy them, should, because if they are Bionicle fans, the graphic novels will be something they would probably enjoy.

People like yourself, would definitely be accepted not to buy them as you simply cannot get it, meaning its not your fault at all.

Edited June 6, 2010 by Nike2032

[Darkness Falls]

Yeesh. Why is everyone so clingy about this story? Just let it go. Nothing remotely interesting is happening.

[Phantoka Kopaka Nuva]

Yeesh. Why is everyone so clingy about this story? Just let it go. Nothing remotely interesting is happening.

Uhh, have you been paying attention? BIONICLE is ending (well, the sets are), and these will be the last comics we'll be able to get in the foreseeable future. It's all new stuff. People are trying as hard as they could to keep it going for a while. It will play a huge part in determining the return of BIONICLE in the future.

[Darkness Falls]

Uhh, have you been paying attention? BIONICLE is ending (well, the sets are), and these will be the last comics we'll be able to get in the foreseeable future. It's all new stuff. People are trying as hard as they could to keep it going for a while. It will play a huge part in determining the return of BIONICLE in the future.

Yes, I have been paying attention and the notion that Bionicle will return if we buy Graphic Novels is silly, unless by "Bionicle" you mean "the Bionicle storyline and characters and not the sets". I highly doubt Bionicle will return in set form and I honestly thought that the story had been declining for quite some time. If you were to tell me that Bionicle were to end with two giant robots fighting on a desert world in 2005, even 2006 I would have said your were crazy and that would be terrible. Alas, it came true.

I enjoyed Bionicle mostly from a set standpoint, and though I did immerse myself heavily in the storyline even up to 2007, I gradually lost interest as things were blown further and further out of scale. This, of course, is all my personal opinion, so I suppose my earlier comment was a little rude. But still.

Edited June 7, 2010 by Darkness Falls

[Aanchir]

Yes, I have been paying attention and the notion that Bionicle will return if we buy Graphic Novels is silly, unless by "Bionicle" you mean "the Bionicle storyline and characters and not the sets". I highly doubt Bionicle will return in set form and I honestly thought that the story had been declining for quite some time. If you were to tell me that Bionicle were to end with two giant robots fighting on a desert world in 2005, even 2006 I would have said your were crazy and that would be terrible. Alas, it came true.

I enjoyed Bionicle mostly from a set standpoint, and though I did immerse myself heavily in the storyline even up to 2007, I gradually lost interest as things were blown further and further out of scale. This, of course, is all my personal opinion, so I suppose my earlier comment was a little rude. But still.

We all know BIONICLE sets aren't coming back, unless some miracle occurs and there's a resurgence in popularity. But it's not about BIONICLE returning-- it's about us getting all of BIONICLE that's left. After all, to my knowledge Greg already wrote the scripts for Graphic Novel #10 (even though the other aspects of production have halted), and that part of the story may never see the light of day if said graphic novel is not released.

Anyway, even some people who like you are disappointed with recent story have expressed an interest in seeing more graphic novels released, partly because of the idea that they will "redeem" the story. I'm not sure if that's a reasonable expectation, but still it does no harm to hope for it.

I personally have tried to enjoy BIONICLE through all its twists and turns, and while I have great enthusiasm for the new, simpler line (Hero Factory), I would like to get as much enjoyment out of BIONICLE as I can even after it ends.

[Strakk]

Uhh, have you been paying attention? BIONICLE is ending (well, the sets are), and these will be the last comics we'll be able to get in the foreseeable future. It's all new stuff. People are trying as hard as they could to keep it going for a while. It will play a huge part in determining the return of BIONICLE in the future.

BIONICLE might return only if HF does really bad.

Without the support of the sets the story developed a little but it wasn't planned at all. That's why I'm not interested anymore in it. The Bionicle story was great because it was planned years before (for the sets) and it made sense. Now that is all invented at the last moment it can be greatly written but it isn't the same thing.

So I agree that the story isn't very interesting anymore.

I am still going to buy the graphic novels though because I will support Bionicle until the end.

[Bfahome]

BIONICLE might return only if HF does really bad.

Why do people keep saying that? If HF fails, it's more likely that BIONICLE won't come back than it is that it will. If HF fails, the message is going to be "people don't want to buy construct-a-figs with an original story anymore".

[Zarkan]

Yes, I have been paying attention and the notion that Bionicle will return if we buy Graphic Novels is silly, unless by "Bionicle" you mean "the Bionicle storyline and characters and not the sets". I highly doubt Bionicle will return in set form and I honestly thought that the story had been declining for quite some time. If you were to tell me that Bionicle were to end with two giant robots fighting on a desert world in 2005, even 2006 I would have said your were crazy and that would be terrible. Alas, it came true.

I enjoyed Bionicle mostly from a set standpoint, and though I did immerse myself heavily in the storyline even up to 2007, I gradually lost interest as things were blown further and further out of scale. This, of course, is all my personal opinion, so I suppose my earlier comment was a little rude. But still.

I fail to see how a giant robot fight between Mata Nui and Makuta is "terrible," even despite the fact that 2010 was rushed. And what do you mean by "blown out of scale?" Did you really expect Bionicle to stay on the same scale as it was when it began? It's been around for ten years now, and there was absolutely no way in Karzahni that it could have stayed on Mata Nui and dealt with Tohunga and Rahi for that amount of time. Especially since, it had been planned since the begining that Bionicle would expand outward, going from Mata Nui to Metru Nui, and eventually covering an entire universe

I'm sorry if I'm reading you wrong, but it just gets tiring when people hold to the supposed vision of the earlier years of Bionicle - a vision that never actually existed. The only way we would have never gone into the more complex storylines of 2004, 2006, and so on, would have been for Bionicle to end in 2003. Now, tell me - would you rather have had Bionicle end with "Mask of Light: The Movie," or would you rather have it end with a final confrontation between the Great Spirit and Makuta? Because I'm not really seeing how the former would have been a better ending.

[Darkness Falls]

I fail to see how a giant robot fight between Mata Nui and Makuta is "terrible," even despite the fact that 2010 was rushed. And what do you mean by "blown out of scale?" Did you really expect Bionicle to stay on the same scale as it was when it began? It's been around for ten years now, and there was absolutely no way in Karzahni that it could have stayed on Mata Nui and dealt with Tohunga and Rahi for that amount of time. Especially since, it had been planned since the begining that Bionicle would expand outward, going from Mata Nui to Metru Nui, and eventually covering an entire universe

I'm sorry if I'm reading you wrong, but it just gets tiring when people hold to the supposed vision of the earlier years of Bionicle - a vision that never actually existed. The only way we would have never gone into the more complex storylines of 2004, 2006, and so on, would have been for Bionicle to end in 2003. Now, tell me - would you rather have had Bionicle end with "Mask of Light: The Movie," or would you rather have it end with a final confrontation between the Great Spirit and Makuta? Because I'm not really seeing how the former would have been a better ending.

I wish you would read a bit more carefully. I enjoyed the story up to 2007 and a small bit of 2008- I even enjoyed the first half of 2009 before Mata Nui showed up. Some of the things I enjoyed about the past years, however, were in concept only- Greg said the Barraki would be "creepier" villains than the "punk-megablocks" Piraka- which had garnered the title of pseudo-Toa for a long while before the books were released. However, when I finally read the books, I was disappointed in the portrayal of nearly every villain because they constantly drifted into Gregisms (much like Furmanisms but cheesier, which is sad) and never seemed to grow much. I really thought the idea of the Barraki being warlords and the original rulers of Mata Nui was a fantastic idea- did they explore it in enough detail? Not enough to satisfy me.

You see, a great deal of what I enjoyed about Bionicle was actually the history. All that "20,000 years ago" stuff. Dark Destiny is my favorite book. But I never thought Bionicle had to answer every question, and I never wanted them to go into so much detail that it lost its mysticism and explained everything- like how the Matoran built a giant... robot... to live in, or all that boring and, in my opinion, senseless material about the Makuta and how they turned evil- it made absolutely no sense... and the whole Brotherhood of Makuta once again blew things terribly out of proportion. Every fan had a fangasm and said "Oh goodness! There is an entire race of Makuta-beings that are as strong as him?!" When you build a villain up as the darkest and most evil essence in the universe and then say "but there are 'x' amount of characters that are just as strong as him" he loses his presence. Makuta was the end-all badass in Bionicle from 2001-2007 and then they made him one out of many.

Every "advancement" in the story since 2005 has been a step backwards in my eyes. The attempts to make things "more mature" ended up being ridiculously cheesy, the storyline became more and more of a mess with the Brotherhood of Makuta (who were around for a total of... one year) and culminated with Mata Nui being a giant robot, and all attempts to reestablish mysticism ended up either making things more complex or answering more questions that never needed to be answered. The first half of 2009 was fantastic because we were on a new planet with its own secrets, history, nature, and unexplained phenomena. With the arrival of Mata Nui nearly all of that was explained or thrown aside as a lead up to the giant robot fight- which killed me. Ending a story with a giant robot fight, no matter their purpose or mysticism, is just a corny way to end anything, especially since Bionicle had a great sense of mystery and lack of stereotypical sci-fi material up until about 2007.

So no, I don't have an illusion that 2001 to 2003 was amazing. 2001-2007 was great. 2001-2003 had the more complex sets, and 2004-2007 had good set design. As a whole, the concept of the story throughout those years worked very well. I think that Matoro should have died saving Mata Nui and Makuta should have been foiled and had to escape to the Mainland to rethink his strategy. End of story. Mata Nui should have been the "spirit of the world" around the Matoran Universe and they should have left it at that- rather than make him a giant robot.

Of course, my opinion.

[Zarkan]

I wish you would read a bit more carefully. I enjoyed the story up to 2007 and a small bit of 2008- I even enjoyed the first half of 2009 before Mata Nui showed up. Some of the things I enjoyed about the past years, however, were in concept only- Greg said the Barraki would be "creepier" villains than the "punk-megablocks" Piraka- which had garnered the title of pseudo-Toa for a long while before the books were released. However, when I finally read the books, I was disappointed in the portrayal of nearly every villain because they constantly drifted into Gregisms (much like Furmanisms but cheesier, which is sad) and never seemed to grow much. I really thought the idea of the Barraki being warlords and the original rulers of Mata Nui was a fantastic idea- did they explore it in enough detail? Not enough to satisfy me.

You see, a great deal of what I enjoyed about Bionicle was actually the history. All that "20,000 years ago" stuff. Dark Destiny is my favorite book. But I never thought Bionicle had to answer every question, and I never wanted them to go into so much detail that it lost its mysticism and explained everything- like how the Matoran built a giant... robot... to live in, or all that boring and, in my opinion, senseless material about the Makuta and how they turned evil- it made absolutely no sense... and the whole Brotherhood of Makuta once again blew things terribly out of proportion. Every fan had a fangasm and said "Oh goodness! There is an entire race of Makuta-beings that are as strong as him?!" When you build a villain up as the darkest and most evil essence in the universe and then say "but there are 'x' amount of characters that are just as strong as him" he loses his presence. Makuta was the end-all badass in Bionicle from 2001-2007 and then they made him one out of many.

Every "advancement" in the story since 2005 has been a step backwards in my eyes. The attempts to make things "more mature" ended up being ridiculously cheesy, the storyline became more and more of a mess with the Brotherhood of Makuta (who were around for a total of... one year) and culminated with Mata Nui being a giant robot, and all attempts to reestablish mysticism ended up either making things more complex or answering more questions that never needed to be answered. The first half of 2009 was fantastic because we were on a new planet with its own secrets, history, nature, and unexplained phenomena. With the arrival of Mata Nui nearly all of that was explained or thrown aside as a lead up to the giant robot fight- which killed me. Ending a story with a giant robot fight, no matter their purpose or mysticism, is just a corny way to end anything, especially since Bionicle had a great sense of mystery and lack of stereotypical sci-fi material up until about 2007.

So no, I don't have an illusion that 2001 to 2003 was amazing. 2001-2007 was great. 2001-2003 had the more complex sets, and 2004-2007 had good set design. As a whole, the concept of the story throughout those years worked very well. I think that Matoro should have died saving Mata Nui and Makuta should have been foiled and had to escape to the Mainland to rethink his strategy. End of story. Mata Nui should have been the "spirit of the world" around the Matoran Universe and they should have left it at that- rather than make him a giant robot.

Of course, my opinion.

Interesting... however, there's one problem with having an opinion like this. You see, regardless of whether you liked Mata Nui being a robot or not, the reality is that he had always been that way in the storyline. We just didn't know about it until 2008 - but it had been planned since the very begining. In fact, if Bionicle had only been a one year line, as it might have been originally, we would have still gotten a similiar ending, with everyone finding out that Mata Nui actually is a giant robot that contains the universe. Other things that you don't like, like the Brotherhood of Makuta, had been planned from the begining as well - the entire story had, actually, up til about 2008. The only years that hadn't been planned were 2009 to 2010 - otherwise, everything that we have experienced was part of the original plan laid out by Bob Thompson and the story team.

On another note, I've never had the opinion that, just because there are other Makuta out there, the one we have known since 2001 is suddenly much less powerful. Makuta was never really as much about power as he was about trickery anyway, and in that sense he has been completely consistent. He tricked the Toa into making him the ruler of their universe, he tricked his brothers and sisters into dying for him - he tricked basically everyone, and it took the Great Spirit himself to defeat him once and for all. That's why he is "The Makuta," not just "a Makuta" - because his intelect is far ahead of almost every other being in the universe. IMO, that makes a far more interesting villian than just "I'm so powerful because I'm the strongest being in the world."

[Aanchir]

Interesting... however, there's one problem with having an opinion like this. You see, regardless of whether you liked Mata Nui being a robot or not, the reality is that he had always been that way in the storyline. We just didn't know about it until 2008 - but it had been planned since the very begining. In fact, if Bionicle had only been a one year line, as it might have been originally, we would have still gotten a similiar ending, with everyone finding out that Mata Nui actually is a giant robot that contains the universe. Other things that you don't like, like the Brotherhood of Makuta, had been planned from the begining as well - the entire story had, actually, up til about 2008. The only years that hadn't been planned were 2009 to 2010 - otherwise, everything that we have experienced was part of the original plan laid out by Bob Thompson and the story team.

On another note, I've never had the opinion that, just because there are other Makuta out there, the one we have known since 2001 is suddenly much less powerful. Makuta was never really as much about power as he was about trickery anyway, and in that sense he has been completely consistent. He tricked the Toa into making him the ruler of their universe, he tricked his brothers and sisters into dying for him - he tricked basically everyone, and it took the Great Spirit himself to defeat him once and for all. That's why he is "The Makuta," not just "a Makuta" - because his intelect is far ahead of almost every other being in the universe. IMO, that makes a far more interesting villian than just "I'm so powerful because I'm the strongest being in the world."

Well, slight correction: not all the years were planned out for the whole time. There have been modifications, some of them major, over the years. But there was a framework in place.

So, for instance, 2006 would have taken place on land, 2007 underwater, and 2008 in the sky, but contrary to the final outcome it was planned for all three years to cover Jaller's Toa Team. Concepts like the Brotherhood of Makuta were known, but it wasn't known that they'd be the 2008 sets. The plan was for them to be three-year villains immediately following the sky plot, in a new Toa Nuva story arc that would conclude with the awakening of Mata Nui. However, the Toa Nuva and Brotherhood both became 2008 characters when the story team decided to wake Mata Nui at the end of that year and prepare for a story arc focused somewhere outside the MU.

I was happy with this outcome-- it made sense to condense a final battle between the original heroes and the most legendary villains into one year, and to be honest I think it was written very well. But there are many legitimate reasons Darlkness Falls may have disliked the 2008 story year, especially since one of his criticisms is how little "screen time" the Brotherhood of Makuta received. For me, though, it was one of the most inspired and inspiring years of BIONICLE.

Also, I love your analysis of Makuta Teridax-- it's one of the reasons I was so pleased with his treatment in the story. He's a deceiver by nature, and a very good one, which makes him much more terrifying than a villain whose greatest asset is sheer power. In fact, many times he sacrificed his own power in order to connive his way to even greater strength and influence.

And of course you're right that there's no sense in complaining about Mata Nui's nature as a giant robot. That's been part of the plan since the very beginning, even before the "story bible" was fleshed out into an epic saga spanning several years. The island's name in 2001, "Mata Nui", meant "great face" in proto-Polynesian, and the name of the MU's substance-- Protodermis, or the preliminary name "Biodermis" which appears in the MNOLG-- directly references the fact that it is Mata Nui's metallic "skin" and tissue.

[Strakk]

Why do people keep saying that? If HF fails, it's more likely that BIONICLE won't come back than it is that it will. If HF fails, the message is going to be "people don't want to buy construct-a-figs with an original story anymore".

That's why I said might.

Lego sometimes returns back to its old themes but I also think Bionicle won't come back .